Caches placed in parks, etc.

[+WestbrooksByTheSea]

There's a beautiful spot in my town that's just perfect for a multi-cache, but it's managed by the parks and rec department. How does one figure out whether certain departments/gov't agencies prohibit cache placement? I can't imagine calling the front-desk clerk at the local office and asking them if they've ever heard of geocaching!

[+Renegade Knight]

If they have a website their caching policy will be posted.

 

If they have regs, follow them. Otherwise caching is a viable casual use of park lands.

[Motorcycle_Mama]

The policy might not be posted on their website.

 

The best thing to do is to call and ask to speak to the manager in charge of maintenance of the parks. The area you want to place it in might be off-limits due to it being a sensitive area such as a historic area or an environmental area.

[+robert]

You can also ask your reviewer, who would know the information in order to be able to review your cache properly.

[+briansnat]

Most parks here have a large sign at the entrance and near parking areas listing prohibited activities.

[+Team Cotati]

There's a beautiful spot in my town that's just perfect for a multi-cache, but it's managed by the parks and rec department. How does one figure out whether certain departments/gov't agencies prohibit cache placement? I can't imagine calling the front-desk clerk at the local office and asking them if they've ever heard of geocaching!

 

That's right. You seek a logical person who occupies a reasonable position of authority. It is unlikely that a 'clerk', janitor, lawn mower operator or other such person meets that criteria. Most places have director or manager type positions that would be in the best position to make judgements wrt what activities are and are not allowed in parks. Just because there might not be a sign specifically prohibiting a specific activity is not an indication that every activity that you might imagine is acceptable.

[+sbell111]

Just check with your local caching organization. They probably are familiar with local requirements.

 

(and stay away from trolls.)

Edited February 15, 2008 by sbell111

[+WestbrooksByTheSea]

Just check with your local caching organization. They probably are familiar with local requirements.

 

(and stay away from trolls.)

 

Thanks for the warning...there are a few bridges at this park and I thought I heard a loud belch coming from underneath one the last time I was there!

[+sbell111]

Just check with your local caching organization. They probably are familiar with local requirements.

 

(and stay away from trolls.)

 

Thanks for the warning...there are a few bridges at this park and I thought I heard a loud belch coming from underneath one the last time I was there!

Ummm, yeah. Of course, I was talking about trolls in the park.

[+9Key]

Are there caches in other parks in your town? Probably so. Why assume that caching is *not* allowed? Its been going for many years before you started. Ask your local cachers before stirring up the government..

[Mushtang]

You can always use a Frisbee to help you.

 

Take a Frisbee with you to the park, and throw it with a friend for a while. Probably nobody will care. Then go find the park manager and ask him if you can hide a geocache. If he says no, hit him in the crotch with the Frisbee and while he's doubled over in pain run out and hide whatever geocache you'd like.

[+StarBrand]

Nothing wrong with a call asking if they have a Geocaching policy. If they do follow it. If they don't - plant your cache.

 

Be positive "Hi - was just wondering if the park department had any policies concerning Geocaching?"

 

Don't phrase it in a negative way - like "Do you prohibit Geocaching?"

[+WestbrooksByTheSea]

You can always use a Frisbee to help you.

 

Take a Frisbee with you to the park, and throw it with a friend for a while. Probably nobody will care. Then go find the park manager and ask him if you can hide a geocache. If he says no, hit him in the crotch with the Frisbee and while he's doubled over in pain run out and hide whatever geocache you'd like.

 

[+Cav Scout]

I have placed earth caches, tradition caches, micros, and multis in parks, cemeteries, national parks, national monuments, and private property. I have called each one of the places mentioned and asked for permission for cache hides. If you politly introduce yourself and say what you want to do, they will usually listen. I have not been turned down for a cache placement yet. I explain geocaching and what its all about, tell them about the visitors it can bring, mention the websight, and if needed do the permit approval through the park.

 

All you have to do is ask.

[+Renegade Knight]

You can always use a Frisbee to help you....

 

I've been wondering. Where would I go to find out if I can play frisbee?

[+Team Cotati]

Just check with your local caching organization. They probably are familiar with local requirements.

 

(and stay away from trolls.)

 

Thanks for the warning...there are a few bridges at this park and I thought I heard a loud belch coming from underneath one the last time I was there!

 

Beautiful.

 

Thanks.

[+sbell111]

You can always use a Frisbee to help you....

 

I've been wondering. Where would I go to find out if I can play frisbee?

Just check with your local frisbee organization. They probably are familiar with local requirements.

[+Team Cotati]

Competition for ‘Cute Forum Poster of the Year’ not withstanding:

 

Emailing, when available, is better than a phone call for several reasons.

 

First it is very efficient and convenient. Second, it automatically provides a written record of the interaction(s). Third and foremost, even gubmint agencies are unlikely to have ‘front desk clerks’, janitors, mower operators, parking lot cleaner uppers and the like responding to inquiries that involve policy and permitted use issues.

 

And don’t assume for one minute that signage or the lack there of wrt the game of geocaching indicates anything at all. To presume that park managers and maintainers are somehow obligated, much les funded to run out and modify or replace signs for every issue that arises wrt permitted use is silly on the face of it and just isn’t going to happen. It’s a smoke screen at best.

 

As most park users are aware, when you take into account community, city, county, regional parks and open space preserves, that the vast majority of them are never ‘staffed’, ever. Thus it would, in most instances, be illogical to proffer that you are likely to find someone there with the required level of authority to approve anything.

 

I can tell you for sure certain and with direct knowledge that there are parks where caches have been allowed. There are still caches there. Caches are no longer permitted there. The reason is that cachers abused their privilege by placing caches in appropriate areas. There has even been one example where a cache was placed and the description verbage indicates that the owner knew in advance that caches were not looked upon very friendly in that park. Yet he chose to place the cache any way.

 

Some in here would have you believe that even after having obtained proper permission, that these things would have happened anyway. That might be true in some extreme example. I for one however do not believe that cachers are going to spend the time obtaining proper permission from responsible authority, and THEN go bonkers and place their cache in direct opposition to the permission that was just obtained. You can believe what you like. If it were me though, I wouldn’t be telling too many people about it though.

 

I know this because I have seen it and I got an email response from responsible park management explaining to me what the reason was as to why I could not place a cache in the park. And you can rest assured that the park has not and is not likely to in the near future, to place a sign that indicates that geocaching is not allowed.

 

Reasonable and responsible people are capable of figuring out how and who constitutes appropriate park management. If they aren’t then they probably ought to not be placing caches. Assuming that you have blanket permission, even in cases where caches currently exist, is a mistake. There is a large difference between ‘knowing’ and ‘assuming’.

Edited February 15, 2008 by Team Cotati

[+sbell111]

That post looked long and boring, so I didn't read most of it. That being said, I wouldn't ever ask permission via email. Email is too impersonal. It makes it too easy to say 'no'.

 

Face to face is best. It personallizes the conversation and allows discussion to assuage any perceived problems.

Edited February 15, 2008 by sbell111

[+Renegade Knight]

...*post destroyed by lag*...

Edited February 15, 2008 by Renegade Knight

[+ReadyOrNot]

You can always use a Frisbee to help you....

 

I've been wondering. Where would I go to find out if I can play frisbee?

 

You should spend hours finding the correct person at the parks department to answer that question. Schedule a meeting with them (which might put you out several weeks). In the meeting, bring some materials with you showing how the frisbee will be thrown and at what speeds and distances. After making your presentation, simply say, "I need written permission to allow me to play frisbee in your park".. You'll probably be denied permission, because a beurocrat will not want to put his butt on the line for anything.

 

Take your frisbee and go home, log onto forums.frisbee.com and complain about how there are other people playing frisbee in the park when its prohibited.

Edited February 15, 2008 by ReadyOrNot

[+wimseyguy]

You can always use a Frisbee to help you....

 

I've been wondering. Where would I go to find out if I can play frisbee?

I'd recommend outdoors. Your wife/mother/roommate/etc. might be upset if you try and find out in the living room and start breaking the knick-knacks and dust catchers they use to accessorize your home. After, it is the human ability to do so that separates us from the rest of the animals.

And learning to control the aerodynamics isn't easy for a beginner.

 

Back OT-check with the local reviewer. They might even have local and regional policies posted on their profile page.

Edited February 15, 2008 by wimseyguy

[+Team Cotati]

You can always use a Frisbee to help you....

 

I've been wondering. Where would I go to find out if I can play frisbee?

I'd recommend outdoors. Your wife/mother/roommate/etc. might be upset if you try and find out in the living room and start breaking the knick-knacks and dust catchers they use to accessorize your home. After, it is the human ability to do so that separates us from the rest of the animals.

And learning to control the aerodynamics isn't easy for a beginner.

 

Back OT-check with the local reviewer. They might even have local and regional policies posted on their profile page.

 

Or they might not.

[+Too Tall John]

The policy might not be posted on their website.

Ditto to this.

 

There are two organizations that own land locally here in NH, the New England Forestry Foundation and the Nature Conservancy. There are caches on properties belonging to both organizations. I recently found both organizations have policies regulating geocaching, but had to dig further than their website to find them. Caches on TNC property basically require specific review of each site. I'm not sure if any of them locally have it, but none mention it. I know that NEFF asks that the cache page simply says something about the cache being on their property.

 

Here's the entire descriptions of two caches on NEFF property:

Near the parking area for {cache name withheld}.

A beautiful walk in the white pines

 

“Every creature is better alive than dead, men and moose and pine trees, and he who understands it aright will rather preserve its life than destroy it.” Thoreau

No mention of NEFF, which is actually really into geocaching. They have for the past couple years released geocaches on their own property to encourage visitors.

 

Which brings me to another point, already made by the half-naked-man (or is that naked-half-man?):

Assuming that you have blanket permission, even in cases where caches currently exist, is a mistake. There is a large difference between ‘knowing’ and ‘assuming’.

[+Too Tall John]

Or they might not.

See, now posts like that just erode away at any credibility you might have. You go and make a good point (see my post above) then you flake out.

 

[+Team Cotati]

DEPARTMENT OF PARKS AND TOURISM DIVISION OF STATE PARKS

JUNE 30, 2003 Park Directive 3220

GEOCACHING -

ARKANSAS STATE PARKS AND MUSEUMS

Geocaching, also known as GPS Stash Hunt or GeoStash, involves “hiding” items, usually containers holding various “treasures” and then providing specific Global Positioning Satellite (GPS) coordinates for each “cache” on a website. Visitors to these websites can choose which “cache” they would like to locate using their own personal GPS device. Cache searchers typically bring along their own “treasures” and make an exchange once the cache has been located.

Virtual Caching involves locating not a cache, but a specific landmark, feature, park sign, etc.

These should be encouraged at State Parks and Museums in lieu of physical caches. However, neither geocaching or virtual caching will be permitted at Conway Cemetery, the Herman Davis Memorial, Jenkins’ Ferry, Lake Fort Smith while under construction, the Louisiana Purchase, Mark’s Mill, Parkin, Poison Springs, Prairie Grove Battlefield, the South Arkansas Arboretum, or Toltec Mounds State Parks.

Procedures concerning geocaching in Arkansas State Parks and Museums are as follows:

I. CACHE PERMITS

A. Placement of a cache on Department property must be secured with a permit. Any cache located on park / museum property that does not exhibit the required affixed permit number is unauthorized and is subject to removal from its location and the owner subject to fines.

B. The person applying for a permit must provide a valid address, telephone number, email address, driver’s license number, and the website address on which the cache will be posted.

C. The exact location of the cache must be pre-approved by the Park Superintendent / Museum Director, whose main concern will be public safety and the prevention of undesirable impacts to natural, historical, and cultural resources.

Effective until superseded 1 PD 3220

D. The exact cache location, including GPS coordinates, must be stated on

the permit.

E. All permits will be in effect for a period of twelve (12) months. The exact starting and ending dates will be recorded on the permit. Upon expiration of the initial permit, at the permit holder’s request, a cache permit may be extended for up to twelve (12) months.

NOTE: If, during the effective period of a permit, a permit holder wants to change the location of the cache, a new permit must be issued and the effective permit cancelled.

F. Upon expiration of a permit, the permit holder is responsible for removing the cache and for removing the cache location from all websites and any information source.

G. If the permit holder fails to remove the cache, it will be removed by park staff and held for ten (10) days, after which staff will dispose of the cache. Confiscation and disposal by park staff will be recorded in an incident report.

H. If it is determined that a cache has been the cause of adverse environmental damage, the cache may be removed by the Park Superintendent / Museum

Director or designee, and the permit cancelled.

II. CACHE CONTAINERS AND CONTENTS

A. Cache containers must be non-breakable, have some form of latch or other closing mechanism to prohibit content exposure to wildlife, and must be approved by the Park Superintendent / Museum Director or designee.

B. Each cache container must have an identification label affixed to the outside identifying it as an approved cache and containing the permit number and expiration date.

C. Caches may not contain inappropriate or dangerous items. Such items include, but are not limited to, food, medications, personal/hygiene products, pornography, weapons of any type, etc. Log books are encouraged in Arkansas State Parks / Museums, over exchange items.

D. All caches are subject to random inspection by Park Superintendents and Museum Directors. Park staff has the authority to immediately remove any item held in a cache deemed unacceptable or that is violation of this policy.

Effective until superseded 2 PD 3220

Effective until superseded 3 PD 3220

III. CACHE LOCATIONS:

A. Physical caches are prohibited inside any state park / museum facility or structure.

B. The location of a cache must be pre-approved by the Park Superintendent / Museum Director or designee.

C. Caches may not be placed in locations that may lead to the creation of spur trails.

D. Caches may not be buried, nor may vegetation or stones be disturbed to place a cache.

F. Caches may not be placed in dangerous, inappropriate, or protected areas and habitats, on cliffs, underground, or underwater.

G. Metal detectors may not be used in cache searches.

IV. COMPLIANCE

A. Failure to comply with this policy directive will result in the revocation of effective geocaching permits. Continued failure to comply with these guidelines will prevent the issuance of any further geocaching permits to the non-compliant group or individual.

B. If geocaching activities as a whole are found to have a negative impact on park resources or if safety becomes an issue in geocache searches, the Park Superintendent / Museum Director may ban geocaching from certain areas or from the entire park / museum.

Related PD: 3170 - Unlawful Occupancy

APPROVED BY: ______________________________

GREG BUTTS, DIRECTOR

Arkansas State Parks