Police Involvement

February 13, 2008

As a LEOCacher myself, I have to agree with what I've seen. Just be honest. The second thing I can recommend is to have some sort of literature about Geocaching. Dope dealers do some of their "drops" in locations that would be ideal for Geocaches. You can simply print off the Geocaching Brochure and tuck it away with your other cache stuff. I actually have a copy of it, that I carry in my pack.

Later,

Pudn

You should have to PROVE cachers are doing something wrong rather than expecting cachers to PROVE they are not.

I don't feel any encounter with LEO is a good one, but that was the best I've had in a long time. I should NOT have to explain to a cop what I'm doing unless he has reasonable belief that a crime is being or has been committed. A happy family in a public park within the posted hours looking over a publicly owned monument may be odd, but it's not reasonable suspicion of a crime. It's actually none of their business.

I'll keep this one short. Unlike others, I'm not here to argue. I'm here to Geocache.

Reasonable suspicion is evaluated using the "reasonable person" or "reasonable officer" standard, in which said person in the same circumstances could reasonably believe a person has been, is, or is about to be, engaged in criminal activity; such suspicion is not a mere hunch.

What that means is that a reasonable person with a reasonable mind would find OUR (YOU and I as geocachers) actions suspicious. I have left Geocaches after thinking I was suspicious. It's not only what Law Enforcement finds suspicious.

February 13, 2008

Understood...however, LEOs are trained to be suspicious. Anything they don't expect to happen is suspicious. So everything can basically be suspicious. Following that logic, any LEO can stop and question anyone they want at any time for any or no reason.

February 13, 2008

I probably should put on my flame suit and head for bed.....

Edited February 13, 2008 by Okiebryan

February 13, 2008

Okiebryan, I actually caught your previously edited post. That's going to vary from state to state. No need to put on any flame suits. I don't have any gas in my flame thrower.

February 13, 2008

Naah, I didn't mean you. I mean the "If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear" crowd that will be along shortly... The ones who think the 4th Amendment is a 70's disco group..

February 13, 2008

I'm moving this out of this forum.. I will PM your Geocaching account.

February 13, 2008

I agree that's probably best. Mods, sorry if I got too OT.

14k · February 13, 2008

I LOL. Before we replaced the cache, he asked to see the log and he branded it with "Officer [somebody] - Don't Do Drugs". Quite an interesting encounter.

There are a few caches around here in wilderness areas in which the local park ranger has logged the cache and left her business card. We ran into her while searching for one awhile back and had a nice chat. She knows where all of the caches are in her area that she covers and likes to know the status of each and any new ones that are placed.

4k · February 14, 2008

It happens. Nothing to get worried about though.

Do what we did, place a cache at the police station. Then more cachers can get hassled by LEO. haha.

Be glad that they are watching or asking questions. (I just hope they don't have a problem with my ASP. )

Tried to set one near our local police station, even quoted the Bad Boys Bad Boys song. Local Reviewer said that this cache was a no no.

Did you have permission?

Ours was placed on police station property with the permission of the Chief of Police. He was very kind and it gave us an opportunity to let them know about geocaching firsthand. He even gave us lots of police swag. One of the officers even posed for pictures! (Posted in the cache logs.) The occasional officer is unaware, but no problems so far.

Edited February 14, 2008 by knight2000

1.1k · February 15, 2008

Understood...however, LEOs are trained to be suspicious. Anything they don't expect to happen is suspicious. So everything can basically be suspicious. Following that logic, any LEO can stop and question anyone they want at any time for any or no reason.

You think LEOs are suspicious? You should take some of the calls we get from the public. The public is a lot more suspicious. You wouldn't believe all the types of calls we get from the public thinking they see something suspicious, even calls from otherwise normal people. That's not even considering all the "suspicious" calls we get from the real wackos. Wackos or not, we have to check out every call because even wackos sometimes see legitimate criminal activity and you never know until you check it out. As sure as you don't check it out and something goes bad it's the same public who whines "the police are picking on me" will be the ones crying "the police didn't do enough." BTDT, wore out the t-shirts.

February 15, 2008

I've only had one encounter with LEO. Nuggs and I were on a Sunday caching run and we pulled up to what I thought would be a LP cache in a bank parking lot. While I was lifting the skirt, an officer pulled up and asked Nuggs what we were doing - I was so focused I didn't see the officer

He explained what we were doing, then I saw the officer and I came up and showed him my PDA and GPS. He'd heard of Geocaching - we gave him a brochure also. He smiled and told us to carry on and a few minutes later I found the cache on the electrical box nearby.

Every so often a thread like this one starts up and it's interesting to see that some people seem to get stopped more often than others - could it be because of our appearances? I'm a 40-year old woman - I look pretty harmless and the only time I got questioned was when I was with my boyfriend - who doesn't look terribly threatening either - but he's a man.

I've never been stopped when I was with my teenaged kids or when I've been alone.

A couple of people have mentioned in other threads that their own appearance may have been the catalyst for an officer asking them what they're up to - I daresay that there's some "profiling" going on, whether we admit it or not.

My policy is to just be truthful and non-threatening and most certainly not be ignorant towards any LEO. They have a job to do, and they should be recognized in a positive way for doing it. If we're just having good wholesome fun, there's nothing to fear in just being honest about our activities, and providing the officer with "evidence" of what we're doing.

If we go on the assumption that caches are placed with permission (which they all should be), then wherever we are, it should be OK to hunt the cache.

Recently I was looking for a new cache that a popular local had placed... and it had 27 or so DNFs - evil hide... all the other locals were trying to find it. It was behind a cemetery and we assumed that the hider had permission to place it - but even he didn't realize how much traffic that cache would receive. After 10 days it still had not been found and as many as 9 cachers were there at a time looking for the *$#*& thing... and when a clue was posted, I rushed down to the site to hunt it with Nuggs and another cacher who had both spent a few hours looking. After I'd been there about 5 minutes (and we were sure we'd find it this time!), we were approached by 2 of the caretakers of the cemetery, who asked us what we were doing. We explained, and told him we thought the cache was placed with permission. It wasn't. So we apologized and left and notified the cache owner - no problems. The owner contacted the caretakers who declined to give permission so the cache was removed and archived.

I did tell the caretaker that if it was any comfort, we'd CITO'd out several bags of trash That didn't impress him enough to grant permission for the cache though.

So even though we were technically trespassing (without intent or malice) - no harm came from it. Once we were asked to go, we went - and had we come back, the caretaker would have had every right to call the law and have us removed - nobody wanted that - this is supposed to be good clean fun.

Bottom line - for those who "hate" LEO - you may need their help one day so don't be so quick to judge. If you keep getting pulled over/questioned - take a look in the mirror - are *your* actions or appearance the cause?

I'd much rather be asked questions and have to explain my actions than have somebody else commit a crime because the officer didn't see a need to stop them and ask what they were doing. It's all in how you look at it, IMO.

If you aren't doing anything wrong, a simple explanation should have you on your way. Behave like a butthead - get treated like one. It's really that simple.

Jenn

February 16, 2008

two LEO issues up in the northwest...

1) a town has all outlawed caching inside its boundaries. The police in the city have found and destroyed several caches in the city and left notes "game over". One of the Caches as inside a private cemetary not owned by the city in honor of a Medal of Honor recipient. A great story that I would have never learned w/out caching.

2) A local geocacher was arrested and held at gunpoint for caching. No warrants, not tresspassing. I was unable to find the tread.

As with all professions there are some bad apples, but the vast majority of the LEO out there are doing a tough job to keep us all safe.

Thanks

February 16, 2008

If questioned, tell them what you are doing. Simple as that.

Geocaching has indicators that hit several points on what suspicous behavor looks like. So do a lot of other things in life. Since you are caching and having a good time doing a family acitivty, there is no reason not to say "I'm caching".

I ran into this myself on my last DNF. At approx. 6:pm, (after sunset on the EDT band.) I was trying to figure the clue on a cache I was searching, when a officer from Windsor Locks PD stopped, and asked what I was doing. 1st thing I asked him if he ever heard of geocaching, then explained the game to him.

"A kind of treasure hunt, where someone has placed a small hidden box, or container with a log book, and some small trinkets to trade, then on a website placed the GPS latitude and longitude coordinates to either

the actual item itself, or a beginning stage of where to find it, where something may have the actual coordinates, or clues on where to find it."

If someone deliberately tries to evade the truth, they put the hobby, and the game at risk.

There's also a part of homeland security, called Highway Watch, where commercial drivers can call a number to report suspicious activity, and give an ID number to confirm the sighting.. It's mainly for reporting odd things like someone looking under rocks in public places, photographing things that you normally wouldn't think much about, or something that keeps happening at the same place multiple times. (read this as planning something, and running drills before the actual.) I Imagen the central switchboard has gotten multiple calls about geocachers looking for urban caches in places.

LPC's are probably a prime candidate for someone to get suspicious. (But officer, he was looking under the skirt of that lampost!)

Stephen (gelfling6)

February 16, 2008

I am a LEO and work with JPD252. I got JPD252 interested in Caching and to this site. We have discussed our hobby with several of our coworkers, so most have the idea what Geocaching is all about. Our city has several local caches and benchmarks. So, it not unusual to see a police car around them. We use our GPSr everyday and encourage all the cachers we see. Oh, and if you see your local D.A.R.E. officer, they have the best swag.

7.2k · February 16, 2008

We've had a few encounters with LEO. The only time we've ever had an unfriendly encounter is when someone asked us to sponsor his caches and we were giving them our own personal "review." The placement was less than satisfactory and not in a good location. Given the location and this being this LEO's first geocaching encounter I can understand why he thought it was "dumb" and to move along.

We didn't sponsor the caches.

We have several active LEO geocachers in our area.

February 16, 2008

Well, I'm glad to know that I'm not the only one that had a funny Police encouter.

A couple of months ago I stopped at a virtual cache in Greely Colorado. Well, I saw a cop driving around and all of the sudden he parkes behind my car. It was already a little dark outside, even that my car was park in a well lit area and so was I when the cop got out of his car and started to head towards mine. I observe for a minute to see what is he going to do. Once I notice his clueless actions, I approached him and asked him "Sir, can I help you?" while scaring him at the same time (Rookie). His reply was, "Sorry, I did not see you. I just wanted to make sure that this was not an abandoned vehicle."

All I have to say to my self was "WOW"

February 17, 2008

A new cache in a small town. Nice sunny weather when I started the 1 mile hike in. Coming out (with a 3 year old) it began to rain. Just as I got came out of the woods a police car pulled up. He called me over to his car, I asked if I could put the little one in her car seat first - no problem - he ran my plates and I explained what I was doing and showed him the cache sheet. He asked where it was located. I told him about where it was and gave him the cache sheet.

I know I looked suspicious walking out of the woodsin an isolated area in the rain carrying a small plastic bag (GPS inside). I for one was glad to see that he was out doing his job even in the rain.

2.3k · February 17, 2008

Sorry, I couldn't resist. I have been looking for somewhere to use this photo. I really respect LEOs. But you have to like Barney......

February 18, 2008

Nuggs and I were on a Sunday caching run and we pulled up to what I thought would be a LP cache in a bank parking lot.

Bank parking lot....I would hope that most hiders are smarter than that. What they couldn't find a place to put it at the nearby dare care center?

I daresay that there's some "profiling" going on,

Of course...that's what they're paid to do. Even though that's a very loaded term.

Yeah, I was walking through a park one day looking for a place to hide a cache. One of the neighbors working in his garage always checked on me every couple of minutes. Obviously a male in a park is up to no good. Plus, I had my hiking clothes on, probably looked close to homeless. Wish I had my wife, kids and dog with me (or any one of them)....I'd look much less suspicious.

Edited February 18, 2008 by PhxChem

February 18, 2008

I'm just waiting for the news story (or movie plot line) where someone is using geocaching to cover up a crime or deflect attention from illegal activities.

Already done.

http://www.gpsthemovie.com/

February 18, 2008

A lot of law enforcement are wise to geocaching. I was caching in a local park and found something VERY peculiar, namely just about every document anybody could ever want on some person. Copies of driver's licence, social security card, college transcripts, court papers, arrest record, everything. Just laying out in a garbage bag in the middle of the woods. Took it to the park office, which wasn't staffed at the moment, but a county sheriff was passing by. Flagged him down, gave him the documents and the exact location they were found (can't ask for anything more than exact GPS coordinates, eh) I mentioned that we had been up there geocaching (he didn't ask what we were doing, I just figured I'd mention it), and he said he was aware of the sport.

My point is that a lot of them know what's going on, and from their perspective, having a lot of people milling around the woods participating in a lawful game has potential to aid them in investigations. Cops and geocachers are not enemies. No clue what ever came of those documents I found, or who the guy was, but that was sure a strange experience.

February 18, 2008

I remember it like it was yesterday. "Sir, what are you doing digging aroung in the church flowerbed?" "Oh, well, I was just, uh, um, well... " This was when I was a newbie and didn't know what to say. But I've learned since: Always tell them EXACTLY what or you might be on their "watch list".

February 18, 2008

two LEO issues up in the northwest...

1) a town has all outlawed caching inside its boundaries. The police in the city have found and destroyed several caches in the city and left notes "game over". One of the Caches as inside a private cemetary not owned by the city in honor of a Medal of Honor recipient. A great story that I would have never learned w/out caching.

2) A local geocacher was arrested and held at gunpoint for caching. No warrants, not tresspassing. I was unable to find the tread.

As with all professions there are some bad apples, but the vast majority of the LEO out there are doing a tough job to keep us all safe.

Thanks

1) Holy cow, what city is that? I'm really tempted to move up there, buy a house in town, and plant a giant cache in my front yard and wait for the cops to come try and take it away.

2) Did the cacher actually get arrested? On what charges? I'd really appreciate it if you could hunt the thread down.

Thanks,

MrW.

3.3k · February 18, 2008

After returning my license to me, I mentioned geocaching to the officer and that the police usually check my license. He said, "I was wondering why you had that many license checks over the past six months." I mentally gaped, but didn't show it. It made sense, but it never occurred to me they tracked that stuff. And that time I was sitting on the side of a rural road in the afternoon, just sitting in my car, when that officer pulled me over.

There was one time around midnight or one in the morning when I turned around on this medical park road in front of a patrol car because I made a wrong turn. That guy followed and pulled me. I told him about geocaching, he thought it strange, so I skipped that city and went to a nearby one to continue my 24 hour run.

Another time I was with some people in the country at night. They were coming back from a cache I had already found and a cop came up. The officer was surprised when they said they had someone else in the car. Yep; another license check.

There are plenty more stories, I forget how many. Is is wrong to feel like this is routine?

We don't have it hard, yet. Just tell the truth and give them information. That is, until drugs are hidden and distributed in that same way. I wonder what we'll do after that happens?

February 19, 2008

I think that carrying the brochure is a must, but on my wish list would be cache containers that were clearly marked, sticked, or labeled as being caches. And the GC identifiers on the log book.

We got questioned by campus security at a local community collage one day after finding the cache and was filling out the log book, seems that a professors had seen us milling around by some steps and reached up under things. Security was annoyed, and it took a few times to enplane what was going on, it would have been nice to have the evidence show that was I was saying was the truth. Nothing ever came of it, we offered to pull the cache from the site if it was posing a problem, they said it was fine where it was, but what we were doing looked like suspicious activity.

I guess with all of that in mind, we are going to start carrying "official" geocache stickers in our cache repair kit.

BTW, does anyone have the image file for those stickers?

1.4k · February 20, 2008

Anyone else have any experiences like this or have any suggestions about what to do if questioned by the police?

I had an encounter with a LEO my first few weeks of geocaching. Was parked along the side of the road, in front of a billboard, and the Sheriff drove by...within a minute or two, he was back and pulled in behind my car (preventing me from leaving). He asked what I was doing and I was honest, offering some additional info about geocaching and presented a business card someone had given me, with the URL and description of geocaching on it. He seemed satisfied, took the card I had offered, and got back in his car.

Perhaps he will join us in the insanity? :anicute:

February 20, 2008

Sunday, while getting a cache in New Mexico, we had our first LEO encounter. A Border Patrol officer stopped to see what we were doing. We told him exactly what we were doing. He said he had some friends that were geocachers. We chatted for a little while. He warned us that the area we were in was frequented by smugglers and might not be safe after dark (it was nearing sunset). He was very nice and even found Zolgar's stash of fireworks (not legal to buy in AZ) amusing. As he was pulling out after our chat a sheriff deputy pulled in, he never talked to us though just the BPO.

February 23, 2008

Had security ride up on a bike as I was lying on the sidewalk looking for a cache under a trash can. I was with my son who responded to the question, "Is anything wrong?" with, "She's just looking for food!" I got up and immediately started walking back to my hotel. To think I spent thousands of dollars for my son's private school education, and this is the best he could come up with.

February 23, 2008

Forget the police.i just dont wanna run into Jeremy.i understand he,s not very happy with me latly..

1.7k · February 24, 2008

We have only had one encounter with a LEO, but from what he said, it may happen more often (he thought we were 'suspicious looking characters') Here is the log from that cache:

LEO encounter

3.9k · February 24, 2008

I have NEVER had any kind of encounter with law enforcement in my caching activities across about 12 states and four countries. Sue had one very minor encounter with police on the lawn of a bank located in a strip mall while hunting for a geocache; as I remember, she ended up on the lawn of the bank because the hider of a multi-stage cache had provided waypoint coordinates for one stage that were about a hundred feet off. In any case, she had my cute beagle with her on a leash, and the combo of the beagle and the GPS receiver helped to quickly calm the suspicions of the police officer.

However, for the past seven months, it seems that almost every time I go geocaching, I am accosted near or at the cache by a somewhat deranged-looking and harried-looking man who claims that his name is "Jack Bower" (or "Jack Bauer") and that his wife and family have been kidnapped by the president of the USA and by the head of the NSA, and that he believes that I am a "terrorist" connected with the kidnapping and that I "must tell him" where his family is being held by the "evil conspirators". I simply have gotten into the habit of tasing him with my taser flashlight every time I encounter him nowadays, before he can even get started on his bizarre rant. ...one sick dude... And strangely, I am not the only one who has had this experience. According to a recent news report on WJZ TV, police near Baltimore had to recently deal with some guy who was babbling much the same story.... odd....

February 24, 2008

My favorite bonehead excuse for a police stop is we thought you were stealing copper from light poles.

I am a LEO, and geocacher, in a rural county in Ohio. Copper theft is not a "bonehead excuse." We have a large amount of that around here, and yes, they will take it off a live pole!!

I agree with Phipps. As a geocacher and LEO I personally have collered mutts stealing from live poles. The best part when I interview them and ask if they are geocaching I get a puzzled look on their face. PRICELESS!

April 8, 2008

While caching in state gamelands in October, I met two game commissioners who asked what I was doing (I had on lots of orange but no gun). When I explained, they decided to walk with me. I sure am glad they did, because Thor (name of cache is Thor's Revenge) almost had revenge had I touched the vine encircling the tree near the cache ... poison ivy. They gave me an on the spot education, wished me the best, and went on their way.

14.3k · April 8, 2008

I have NEVER had any kind of encounter with law enforcement in my caching activities across about 12 states and four countries. Sue had one very minor encounter with police on the lawn of a bank located in a strip mall while hunting for a geocache; as I remember, she ended up on the lawn of the bank because the hider of a multi-stage cache had provided waypoint coordinates for one stage that were about a hundred feet off. In any case, she had my cute beagle with her on a leash, and the combo of the beagle and the GPS receiver helped to quickly calm the suspicions of the police officer.

However, for the past seven months, it seems that almost every time I go geocaching, I am accosted near or at the cache by a somewhat deranged-looking and harried-looking man who claims that his name is "Jack Bower" (or "Jack Bauer") and that his wife and family have been kidnapped by the president of the USA and by the head of the NSA, and that he believes that I am a "terrorist" connected with the kidnapping and that I "must tell him" where his family is being held by the "evil conspirators". I simply have gotten into the habit of tasing him with my taser flashlight every time I encounter him nowadays, before he can even get started on his bizarre rant. ...one sick dude... And strangely, I am not the only one who has had this experience. According to a recent news report on WJZ TV, police near Baltimore had to recently deal with some guy who was babbling much the same story.... odd....

I can't wait for Season 7!

I have never had any troubles with the police either.

2k · April 8, 2008

When I see cops, I just tell them what I am doing. Of the 5 times, 3 of them the police men were interested in seeing the cache and were not suspicious of me at all.

April 8, 2008

We had one watch our search with A knowing smile on his face....

I think he was dissapointed when we found the cache as quickly as we did.

April 8, 2008

Only three police stops caching in the last two months. The funniest one was when Dallas, TX PD told me to go cache in another city Mesquite, TX. The ironic part was I had been detained and patted down in Mesquite, TX a few weeks prior to that stop..

My favorite bonehead excuse for a police stop is we thought you were stealing copper from light poles.

While it may sound like a boneheaded excuse to contact you, theft of building materials, particularly valuable ones like copper, are on the rise. He/She was just doing the job they are paid to do. They (we) mean no harm.

Like the folks above said, just be honest, you may introduce them to a new hobby. And you may prevent the next geocacher from the same incovenience you experienced.

(Edit: forgot to add the last sentence the first time.)

Edited April 8, 2008 by DareGuy

April 8, 2008

Back when I first started caching, I'd go a lot of times at night (as soon as new caches were approved)...and I had several encounters with police officers. But they weren't worried about what I was doing...in fact most didn't even ask, they were just stopping to ask if I was okay and felt safe out alone at night. What is it unusual for a young, single, white woman to run into the woods alone at midnight? Ha!

April 8, 2008

I have found a few benchmarks here on Kirtland AFB and no matter how many times I called base security and got the ok I would get grilled by some cop who didn't get the memo. I am as polite as I can be, they make a call, find out I have permission and let me go.

April 9, 2008

About a week into geocaching (just a few months ago), I had my only (so far) encounter with a LEO. It was quite a memorable experience, since I had my 16 year old sister with me.

We were sitting around the house, talking about our new hobby, and perusing the listings in the area when a brand new one popped up. We decided that we WANTED it. (What can I say, when I do something I do it all the way.)

So we headed out to the park it was in about 20 minutes away and hopped out of the car. We were about 30 feet from the car GPSrs and flashlights in hand when headlights, then a spotlight came on. My poor little sister, the "A" student flipped out a bit, but I just turned around and walked directly to the police car. The officer asked what we were doing out so late (ok it was around midnight) and stated that they had recently had trouble with teenagers doing drugs in the park at night. I believe my response was, "Sorry, no drugs here, just a flashlight and a couple of GPS's" and that we were geocaching. He then told me we were technically trespassing, since the park closed at dark. Apparently there was a sign but it was too dark to see (LOL). I explained geocaching briefly and he said that we could continue but to be careful. So we went on our way and started searching. After about 15 minutes, more lights. I thought, OH JEEZ!. Turns out it was the friendly cop coming back to see if we "had found it yet?" We had not so he hopped out of the car with his flashlight and commenced to helping us search.

The rest of the story is even more amusing but is best told by the officer himself, debay. You can find his first to find log on GC19KK3

I really wanted to get back in time to get that handcuff key but alas I was too late :anibad:

Anyway it turned out to be a very pleasant experience and I dragged another person into the madness!

Edited April 9, 2008 by chasecity

April 9, 2008

Double post, sorry!

Edited April 9, 2008 by chasecity

Police Involvement

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