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Will Garmin Ever Offer 1:24,000 For National Forests as well as Parks?


Didjerrydo

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I am a Garmin dealer here in Western North Carolina (Asheville area) and there is never a day that passes that someone doesn't ask for a 1:24,000 topographic software to load into their Garmin GPS unit. This area of Pisgah National Forest (which is gorgeous but not a national park) is a great hiking & backpacking area and if Garmin would offer a product loke this it would sell like hot cakes here.

I can't understand, now that their units have higher resolution color displays, faster processors and more memory capacities, why this hasn't happened?

We even brought in a some of the new Magellan Tritons due to the fact that they could utilize the National Geographic 1:24,000 software, but have been rather dissapointed with them. So far, every one we've sold has been returned by very dissasitisfied customers.

Looks to me like Garmin is really missing the boat here by not offering this product. There's many vast tracts of National Forest areas all over the country where folks do outdoor activities that needs better mapping than the 1:24,000 stuff that's not that great to most outdoor enthusiasts who have always used USGS 1:24,00 paper maps. After all, USGS has already done all the hard work for them and it's not even copyrighted!

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Seems like you should consider selling the Delorme PN-20. They seem to be the only company that has committed to making high quality maps and aerial images available for their units.

 

Magellan has made an attempt (perhaps unsuccessfully) through their Triton series.

 

Garmin seems to be woefully out of date. I believe Garmin will lose the outdoor enthusiast battle unless they start supplying better quality maps and imagery. Sure, the Colorado has some nice new bells and whistles, but it doesn't represent a significant step forward.

 

Delorme is going to get my voting dollar!

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Ditto the above. You can buy - TODAY - 1:24000 Topo maps to put on Delorme's PN-20. They are called USGS Topo Maps. Delorme's application is called Delorme 3D Topo Quads. They are available for every state, at about $50 per state for PN-20 owners. The detail is unequaled in any other topo maps. OK, the USGS quads are not the latest data, but the terrain hasn't changed much.

Edited by Klemmer & TeddyBearMama
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Topo 7.0 is included with the PN-20 for no additional cost. From Delorme's posted samples, it looks like Topo can display 50 foot contours. This is the same vertical resolution that the Quad maps display. I don't know how the overall level of detail in Topo 7 compares to the Quad maps, but it appears very similar.

 

The quality and detail of Topo 7 is head and shoulders above anything offered by Garmin, with the exception of some selected national parks. Topo includes superior topographic maps, and full street mapping. Plus, Topo 7 is included with the PN-20 at no additional cost. In other words, if you buy the PN-20, you may not need to buy the Topo Quads.

 

Delorme is providing far superior mapping capability, plus they are including much of it with the PN-20 at a price point far below Garmin and Magellan. Magellan and Garmin have lost their competitive position for mapping capability, and Delorme is severely undercutting their pricing.

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Topo 7.0 is included with the PN-20 for no additional cost. From Delorme's posted samples, it looks like Topo can display 50 foot contours. This is the same vertical resolution that the Quad maps display. I don't know how the overall level of detail in Topo 7 compares to the Quad maps, but it appears very similar.

 

The quality and detail of Topo 7 is head and shoulders above anything offered by Garmin, with the exception of some selected national parks. Topo includes superior topographic maps, and full street mapping. Plus, Topo 7 is included with the PN-20 at no additional cost. In other words, if you buy the PN-20, you may not need to buy the Topo Quads.

 

Delorme is providing far superior mapping capability, plus they are including much of it with the PN-20 at a price point far below Garmin and Magellan. Magellan and Garmin have lost their competitive position for mapping capability, and Delorme is severely undercutting their pricing.

Actually, all USGS 1:24,00 quads if our area (Western, NC) is in either 20' or 40' contour lines.

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From Delorme's posted samples, it looks like Topo can display 50 foot contours. This is the same vertical resolution that the Quad maps display. I don't know how the overall level of detail in Topo 7 compares to the Quad maps, but it appears very similar.

For the record, the contour levels depends upon zoom level and detail setting. At highest detail and close zoom, T7 will display 10 foot contours.

 

The Topoquads tend to be better for showing water detail that includes streams, ponds, and lakes. On the other side of the coin, they are dated to a degree that the T7 maps usually have more current street data. They complement each other nicely, but I would agree that many people will be entirely satisfied with just the T7 data alone.

 

Didjerrydo, is this information relevant to your question or have we hijacked your thread? I'm not aware that Garmin has greater 1:24000 coverage in the works, but I'm just an interested GPS user. I would think as a dealer you might have potentially more inside news access than most of us. It seems that those of us happy with Delorme's PN-20/Topo7 offering validate that there is a market niche such as you describe.

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From Delorme's posted samples, it looks like Topo can display 50 foot contours. This is the same vertical resolution that the Quad maps display. I don't know how the overall level of detail in Topo 7 compares to the Quad maps, but it appears very similar.

For the record, the contour levels depends upon zoom level and detail setting. At highest detail and close zoom, T7 will display 10 foot contours.

 

The Topoquads tend to be better for showing water detail that includes streams, ponds, and lakes. On the other side of the coin, they are dated to a degree that the T7 maps usually have more current street data. They complement each other nicely, but I would agree that many people will be entirely satisfied with just the T7 data alone.

 

Didjerrydo, is this information relevant to your question or have we hijacked your thread? I'm not aware that Garmin has greater 1:24000 coverage in the works, but I'm just an interested GPS user. I would think as a dealer you might have potentially more inside news access than most of us. It seems that those of us happy with Delorme's PN-20/Topo7 offering validate that there is a market niche such as you describe.

No, that's good info to know though, but it does look like Garmin would see the bucks to be made here unless there's some technical issue that keeps them from doing this.

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Didjerrydo,

 

Pure speculation, but my guess is that there will be a Topo U.S. 2009 (otherwise why would they have added a year to the product name) that has to add something. That could be aerial photos or it could be greater contour intervals.

 

BTW, I'm moving back to Asheville later this week. Used to live there. Thought I was bound for the southwest but Asheville won out. Looking forward to getting back out in the Pisgah NF.

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Hey, some of my Varner and Lowdermilk ancestors were from your area... :ph34r:

 

The units that use 1:24000 maps are displaying digitally scanned maps called digital raster graphics. The Garmin's use vector maps rather than images. It would require a lot of data to have such detailed vector maps for every area. I'm sure some areas of the world would prefer any topographic map before we Americans get the detailed ones. :)

 

What Garmin would need to do would be to offer the ability to also use raster maps like DeLorme and Magellan. I suggested in a letter to them that they do this. I also said that they make great hardware, but that the software is expensive and usually out of date by the time it's shipped. I suggested they have an "open architecture" format and allow users to create and share maps on their forum. With all the people using car systems (and many not caring a wit for the software) I think they should concentrate on their hardware, and make the software more open. Digital raster graphics are often free online.

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The units that use 1:24000 maps are displaying digitally scanned maps called digital raster graphics. The Garmin's use vector maps rather than images. It would require a lot of data to have such detailed vector maps for every area. I'm sure some areas of the world would prefer any topographic map before we Americans get the detailed ones. :ph34r:

 

What Garmin would need to do would be to offer the ability to also use raster maps like DeLorme and Magellan. I suggested in a letter to them that they do this. I also said that they make great hardware, but that the software is expensive and usually out of date by the time it's shipped. I suggested they have an "open architecture" format and allow users to create and share maps on their forum. With all the people using car systems (and many not caring a wit for the software) I think they should concentrate on their hardware, and make the software more open. Digital raster graphics are often free online.

 

They could use vector or raster maps. Vector wouldn't take that much memory. The Colorado platform is raster capable. I bet it's coming; the question is when.

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I read somewhere that providing vector data at the detail of quads for the majority of regions would be extremely expensive, and not something that Garmin wishes to venture alone.

 

I believe Garmin is waiting for the the USGS to release 1:24K data.

 

But what I don't understand is why Garmin doesn't work with a map vendor (perhaps Maptech) to bring raster maps to the Garmin.

 

I'm actually quite surprised that today's technology cannot digitize raster maps, much like OCR can digitize text.

 

My guess is that it is all about the competition. Before, there weren't too many devices with quad offerings, and not too many people really care about raster maps. Most don't even understand the differences or have had the opportunity to compare.

 

But I encourage you to write to Garmin and beg for the feature. Maybe they'll appease us.

http://www8.garmin.com/contactUs/salesSupport.jsp

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I see lots of, what I call, incremental changes in the bells and whistles on GPS handhelds. I think this good, but manufacturers are running out of new things they can add to distinguish themselves. Brighter displays, "wheel" interfaces, and other things like that don't excite me.

 

Garmin, with their skills for handheld hardware, seems to be still betting on hardware. I think the differentiating capability in the future will be good quality maps, imaging data, and inclusion of specific data. For example, when will Garmin and Magellan include extensive trails in their topo map offerings. This has been a longstanding neglect by both companies. How about vector trails that are routable? How about good depth profile data for lakes and rivers?

 

Magellan has taken a first step to work with National Geographic. That is commendable, now if they could just get their hardware to work. Garmin needs an external mapping partner, or they need to open up their standards for map files. I predict Garmin will continue to lose market share if they maintain proprietary maps with their current low quality.

 

Overall, it looks like multiple companies are offering reasonable quality handheld GPS units. I think the future for differentiation is in the maps and images that end users can load onto their units.

 

Sorry, didn't intend to preach! But I do like Delorme's approach (and their low-priced good quality bundled maps).

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I see lots of, what I call, incremental changes in the bells and whistles on GPS handhelds. I think this good, but manufacturers are running out of new things they can add to distinguish themselves. Brighter displays, "wheel" interfaces, and other things like that don't excite me.

 

Garmin, with their skills for handheld hardware, seems to be still betting on hardware. I think the differentiating capability in the future will be good quality maps, imaging data, and inclusion of specific data. For example, when will Garmin and Magellan include extensive trails in their topo map offerings. This has been a longstanding neglect by both companies. How about vector trails that are routable? How about good depth profile data for lakes and rivers?

 

Magellan has taken a first step to work with National Geographic. That is commendable, now if they could just get their hardware to work. Garmin needs an external mapping partner, or they need to open up their standards for map files. I predict Garmin will continue to lose market share if they maintain proprietary maps with their current low quality.

 

Overall, it looks like multiple companies are offering reasonable quality handheld GPS units. I think the future for differentiation is in the maps and images that end users can load onto their units.

 

Sorry, didn't intend to preach! But I do like Delorme's approach (and their low-priced good quality bundled maps).

I totally agree. Well said.

 

Jake

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