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g-o-cashers

Colorado location errors

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I too am curious about the serial #'s that are experiencing location errors. I gave my serial # in my post.

 

Earlier this year I bought my unit at REI (this was my 2nd unit since I returned the first unit since it failed to keep time and had other problems). I'm going to call Garmin tomorrow and see if they will RMA the unit. From what I've read here, I'm sure it will be the "first time they've heard about a location drift problem".

 

J

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Maybe we can make a separate thread for for the serial numbers and constantly update the first post with the serial number listing of people experience the drift. I am not sure if this is possible on this board to make it easy for the thread owner or maybe a wiki or something. Anyone have any thoughts?

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Where is the serial number? There's a number inside the battery compartment on mine, but it's all digits - no letter Z in it.

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That would be it. You probably have a 300? The serial numbers are different for the 300's and 400's.

 

GO$Rs

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Yes, it's a 300. Accuracy drift experienced on several occasions. 169048***.

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I am sure glad that I found this thread, talking to tech support has been less than satisfying. I am comparing to a Kenwood KNA g 510 (made by garmin) and my colorado 400t they never seem to match up. I have even tried the external antenna for the 400t and no luck. Serial 18Z020***

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As mentioned by several other users I ran my 60csx and 400t running 2.54 head to head over my test course this morning and saw the Colorado position error. I'm hopeful that given the data on the Vista HCx thread about downgrades to 2.5 fixing the problem that a new GPS software release for the CO might eventually resolve this issue.

 

GO$Rs

Edited by g-o-cashers

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I sure hope Garmin fixes this problem....

 

I was out hiking again today and I will try to refrain from showing all the times that I get the location error (unless I get something extraordinarily unusual), but below are two other interesting times.

 

ColoradoLocationError3.png

 

ColoradoLocationError4.png

 

Edit: I thought I read about Garmin having a hardware change on the Colorado units, but it seems recent posts indicate that the newer units don't behave much better. I emailed Garmin some info today asking for an RMA -- I guess I'll try to pursue that route and hope a newer unit operates better.

Edited by jmedlock

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This evening I had my first BIG position error with the Colorado. I have taken to taking both my 76CSx and my Colorado out with me so that I can compare tracks.

 

After about 45 minutes in woodland both units were losing accuracy a bit - I think mainly because they were losing satellites that were dropping below the horizon but were unable to acquire satellites that were rising.

 

The 76 was giving EPE of about 50ft, the Colorado was giving EPE of about 120ft. However, when I downloaded the tracklogs for that particular bit of the walk, the 76 was pretty close (judging by previous tracks and also overlaying on Google Earth), but the Colorado was 680ft out! :anitongue:

Edited by Crid

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I have this problem now too (CO 300). I'm quite sure it didn't occur with 2.51 as I noticed it the first time I used it with 2.54. (In woodland)

 

I think it really sucks. Would reinstalling 2.51 make sense?

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I have this problem now too (CO 300). I'm quite sure it didn't occur with 2.51 as I noticed it the first time I used it with 2.54. (In woodland)

 

I think it really sucks. Would reinstalling 2.51 make sense?

 

If you can downgrade the GPS chip firmware as well. People with etrexes have figured out how to do this, I'm not sure that people with Colorados have found a way.

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I tried to downgrade using the 2.5 GPS software that the etrex folks used but couldn't get it to update my CO. The problem is we've only had one GPS software release prior to 2.6 and that came on the unit, it was never released to the public as a software update.

 

GO$Rs

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I have this problem now too (CO 300). I'm quite sure it didn't occur with 2.51 as I noticed it the first time I used it with 2.54. (In woodland)

 

(...)

 

Happened exactly the same with me! What a progress! ... :huh:

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I have this problem now too (CO 300). I'm quite sure it didn't occur with 2.51 as I noticed it the first time I used it with 2.54. (In woodland)

 

I think it really sucks. Would reinstalling 2.51 make sense?

 

Nope. This has been happening since almost the very beginning with the Colorado. It seems to have something do to with the GPS chipset hardware or software not the Garmin Software.

 

GO$Rs

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I'm running 2.51, so it's not a new problem introduced by 2.54.

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I'm quite sure that the deviations are worst in the north/south direction. When I walk from west to east or e-w my CO almost always points meters wrong to the north or to the south.

when I walk n-s or s-n its right on track (with my topo cards)

strange.

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I'm quite sure that the deviations are worst in the north/south direction. When I walk from west to east or e-w my CO almost always points meters wrong to the north or to the south.

when I walk n-s or s-n its right on track (with my topo cards)

strange.

Need to be clear on what you're looking for. The issue is not exposed by comparing your real position (or your reported position) with the map. The map could be wrong -- especially if you are using the 400t topos and comparing your location to the position of roads. Roads are notoriously inaccurate on the 400t topos (and, I assume, the topo 2008 disk set as well). The issue is exposed by comparing a previous track or waypoint which you know to be accurate with a new track or waypoint. You can, of course, use the map if you have previous reliable experience that proves it's accurate. Otherwise, not.

 

If you actually experience the issue and you do see a directional bias, it's more likely to be related to the local conditions (topography, tree cover, etc.) than to any systematic bias the bug may have. But you never know. Maybe you've hit on the one thing the Garmin engineers need to know to fix the problem :D

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I'm quite sure that the deviations are worst in the north/south direction. When I walk from west to east or e-w my CO almost always points meters wrong to the north or to the south.

when I walk n-s or s-n its right on track (with my topo cards)

strange.

Need to be clear on what you're looking for. The issue is not exposed by comparing your real position (or your reported position) with the map. The map could be wrong -- especially if you are using the 400t topos and comparing your location to the position of roads. Roads are notoriously inaccurate on the 400t topos (and, I assume, the topo 2008 disk set as well). The issue is exposed by comparing a previous track or waypoint which you know to be accurate with a new track or waypoint. You can, of course, use the map if you have previous reliable experience that proves it's accurate. Otherwise, not.

 

If you actually experience the issue and you do see a directional bias, it's more likely to be related to the local conditions (topography, tree cover, etc.) than to any systematic bias the bug may have. But you never know. Maybe you've hit on the one thing the Garmin engineers need to know to fix the problem :D

I'm in the Netherlands, and our Topo maps are very accurate.

I'm very sure about the directional bias. I've looked at tracks from the pas 2 months, in various tree cover etc conditions.

Pity Garmin doesn't read any user input :-(

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I'm quite sure that the deviations are worst in the north/south direction. When I walk from west to east or e-w my CO almost always points meters wrong to the north or to the south.

when I walk n-s or s-n its right on track (with my topo cards)

strange.

Funnily enough I was thinking similar myself. Although I'd suggest that walking n-s or s-n isn't necessarily "on track", just hiding the problem because it's got the right longitude, just the wrong latitude.

 

Here are a couple of my tracklogs overlaid on Google Earth. Both times you can see the E/W aren't too far out, but the N/S goes pretty screwy:

 

colorado-track.jpg

 

colorado-track-2.jpg

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Sounds like a nice theory, but not for me...

 

Yellow is the "bad" track. The big jump is the power off/on without moving and the new spot to the North West is the correct location.

 

Green is my return track. Red is a 60Csx up and blue is down.

123.jpg

Edited by Red90

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Nevertheless, your error is south, not north. (No idea if that's significant, but mine are both to the south).

Edited by Crid

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Just an FYI, comparing that track shows that "normal" drift is no worse that a 60CSX. Here is a shot from climbing a very steep hill in heavy forest. Yellow is the 60CSX, Black is the Colorado. Nothing much to conclude. If anything the CO is more stable.

321.jpg

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Nevertheless, your error is south, not north. (No idea if that's significant, but mine are both to the south).

 

Sorry, but I can find a North one as well....

 

Green Bad. White is the return. Red is the map's version of the trail, from (I think) a 60CS.

213.jpg

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Oh well, it was a nice theory for the few minutes it lasted. :laughing:

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Are you able to tell if the vertical errors are consistently up or consistently down, as if it always shortens or always lengthens some of the ranges?

 

On another note, has anyone tried, instead of power-off/power-on, to just completely block the signal for a second or two to see if the position fixes itself? I mean like stick it in an ammo can or mylar bag or underwater (with protection considering the waterproofness complaints).

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Nevertheless, your error is south, not north. (No idea if that's significant, but mine are both to the south).

 

Sorry, but I can find a North one as well....

 

Green Bad. White is the return. Red is the map's version of the trail, from (I think) a 60CS.

the thing is, it that the error is (when it exposes itself) in the latitude. Longitude seems to be quite correct. Both Googleearth pictures in Crids' post seem to confirm this.

Edited by Mars Express

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Here are a couple of my tracklogs overlaid on Google Earth. Both times you can see the E/W aren't too far out, but the N/S goes pretty screwy:

 

colorado-track-2.jpg

Exactly what I meant... Edited by Mars Express

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I forgot to mention in my previous post that the blue track is from a 76CSx and the red track is from a Colorado 300. Both tracks were made at the same time (ie. I was carrying both units together and they were both tracking).

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the thing is, it that the error is (when it exposes itself) in the latitude. Longitude seems to be quite correct. Both Googleearth pictures in Crids' post seem to confirm this.

Actually, no. It's just that he was walking e/w at the time, so the e/w displacement isn't so evident.

 

123.jpg

 

When he reset, he said he didn't move. So not only does the Colorado jump north, it also jumps west.

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If you look all the way back up this thread, you will find examples of obvious east-west errors. Granted, there seem to be more north/south errors, but it's clear that east-west errors occur also.

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If you look all the way back up this thread, you will find examples of obvious east-west errors. Granted, there seem to be more north/south errors, but it's clear that east-west errors occur also.

Well OK. According to the observations in this thread http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...mp;st=250 there seems to be a little hope though...

 

(message 253)

Edited by Mars Express

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When he reset, he said he didn't move. So not only does the Colorado jump north, it also jumps west.

 

Yes, there is clearly as large a longitude error as there is latitude. The overall error was around 200 meters IIRC. Basically, we had arrived at the trailhead. The other two guys said "we are here". I said "Really?" and then some other non family friendly words.

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my colorado 300 has also location errors up to 200 meters. - i contacted garmin and got an rma to send it back.

 

some days later i got the same unit and the statement: unit has been tested and is working correctly

 

so garmin is not aware of the problem - did anybody else contact garmin with the location error problem? :D

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my colorado 300 has also location errors up to 200 meters. - i contacted garmin and got an rma to send it back.

 

some days later i got the same unit and the statement: unit has been tested and is working correctly

 

so garmin is not aware of the problem - did anybody else contact garmin with the location error problem? :D

 

Quite a few people have and some people have had their units replaced. Since the problem is intermittent, it is no wonder they don't see this problem when it was being repaired. If they did a diagnostic on the circuitry and it came up good with nothing wrong. Obviously the drift is being caused by software and not hardware.

 

My question I just thought of is have anyone ever had this issue in automotive mode or by using auto routing or is it just happening in geocaching mode or off road mode.

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my colorado 300 has also location errors up to 200 meters. - i contacted garmin and got an rma to send it back.

 

some days later i got the same unit and the statement: unit has been tested and is working correctly

 

so garmin is not aware of the problem - did anybody else contact garmin with the location error problem? :D

 

I have several times. The end result was an RMA that I haven't used yet. I'm hoping to get it sent back this week.

 

Did Garmin send your original GPS back to you or did they at least send a new one?

 

GO$Rs

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Did Garmin send your original GPS back to you or did they at least send a new one?

 

GO$Rs

When I RMA'd my 300 due to the clock issue I was given a new unit with a much higher SN. On that note my overnight barometer doesn't work and I just saw my first tracklog error in a 150' range.

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I have called Garmin REPEATEDLY with this issue and have spoken to several techs. One seemed pretty sharp, 1 seemed like he was tired of hearing about it, and 1 was about 3 french-fries shy of a happy meal.

 

Don't seem like they care much.

 

They DID say that they have 2 different design teams working on the Colorado and the Oregon.

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I was talking to Garmin support today about the Oregon and the guy I talked happened to have a Colorado and had seen the accuracy problem. When I asked if there was going to be a fix he said he didn't know what engineering was going to do.

 

I'm sure Garmin knows about problem if there own support people are seeing it, the question is what are they doing about it, if anything.

 

GO$Rs

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I was talking to Garmin support today about the Oregon and the guy I talked happened to have a Colorado and had seen the accuracy problem. When I asked if there was going to be a fix he said he didn't know what engineering was going to do.

 

I'm sure Garmin knows about problem if there own support people are seeing it, the question is what are they doing about it, if anything.

 

GO$Rs

Garmin will build a test center for testing COs and ORs under heavy tree cover.

Currently the trees in the testcenter are 5 feet tall, but in a few years there will be a really excellent forest for testing heavy tree cover :ph34r:

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I, like a number of other people, have reported the problem. I have a Vista Hcx, but it appears that the drift problem is identical to the CO. The Garmin tech I spoke to said he had never heard of the problem.

 

While the problem is intermittent, it's not that intermittent. Pretty consistently, if I walk for an hour or more, the drift problem occurs.

 

Obviously the drift is being caused by software and not hardware.

 

I'm curious, Storm180, why do you think the problem is software related? It occurs in both the CO and Vista which have the same GPS receiver chip. If it is a fundamental problem with the hardware, there may not be a software fix. Although, I guess they fixed the Hubble hardware problem with software.

 

Don

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This is the response I got via email when going back and forth with the location error/drift issue:

 

You are correct it has been reported and they are now investigating this issue. I am sorry I don't have anymore information on this. I would keep an eye on our web site for future updates. Thank you for your patience.

 

With Best Regards,

 

Larry

Product Support Specialist

Outdoor/Fitness Team

Garmin International

 

So, not much help, but they did acknowledge that they know about the issue.

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I'm curious, Storm180, why do you think the problem is software related? It occurs in both the CO and Vista which have the same GPS receiver chip. If it is a fundamental problem with the hardware, there may not be a software fix. Although, I guess they fixed the Hubble hardware problem with software.

 

Because the problem only STARTED when GPS Firmware 2.60 was released. If you revert back to 2.50, the problem goes away. It is pretty much a 100% certainty that it is a bug in the GPS firmware.

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Because the problem only STARTED when GPS Firmware 2.60 was released. If you revert back to 2.50, the problem goes away. It is pretty much a 100% certainty that it is a bug in the GPS firmware.

This isn't an option for Colorado users unfortunately. Only HCX owners.

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Because the problem only STARTED when GPS Firmware 2.60 was released. If you revert back to 2.50, the problem goes away. It is pretty much a 100% certainty that it is a bug in the GPS firmware.

 

Unfortunately, the problem that 2.60 fixed I found perhaps worse than the drift. I'm speaking of the large inaccuracies in the Trip Computer screen. At walking speeds, the Trip Computer would at times show the speed as 0.0 making the other parameters displayed on the Trip Computer inaccurate.

 

Don

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Unfortunately, the problem that 2.60 fixed I found perhaps worse than the drift. I'm speaking of the large inaccuracies in the Trip Computer screen. At walking speeds, the Trip Computer would at times show the speed as 0.0 making the other parameters displayed on the Trip Computer inaccurate.

 

That was probably the "Unit firmware 2.60" that fixed that problem. I'm talking about the "GPS Firmware 2.60".

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I sometimes wonder if there are not both hardware and software components here. Yes, the concensus is that the problem was introduced with 2.60 chipset (not unit) firmware. So definitely a software component. And yes, some people can reproduce the problem frequently. On the other hand, some of us have never seen it -- in spite of watching carefully and trying hard to make it happen. This is what makes me wonder if perhaps there is some hardware variability which causes the software problem to appear on some units but not others.

 

And no, I have no idea what kind of hardware problem might cause that.

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