You ask permission, it's denied...but there are caches there already.

[+Renegade Knight]

That's another question.

 

If they ask tell them. Caching is a viable activity and there is nothing secret about it.

 

To clarify: I'm presupposing this question would be posed AFTER I was denied permission for my cache.

 

I understood. Same answer if they ask before and if they ask after.

 

For the same reasons I think you don't need to ask in a park that has no policy on caching, I don't think there is any reason not to talk frankly about caching and caches to a park manager.

 

Caching has no secretes. Our story is out there for the entier world to see.

[+egami]

Caching has no secretes. Our story is out there for the entier world to see.

 

Yet, people feel like they have to avoid getting explicit permission for fear of rejection...then there is, as sbell1 likes to brag, the dirty secret.

[+Renegade Knight]

Caching has no secretes. Our story is out there for the entier world to see.

 

Yet, people feel like they have to avoid getting explicit permission for fear of rejection...then there is, as sbell1 likes to brag, the dirty secret.

 

I'd say people ask permission every time they feel that they should and don't ask where it's not neccessary. Same as every other activity we do.

[+egami]

Caching has no secretes. Our story is out there for the entier world to see.

 

Yet, people feel like they have to avoid getting explicit permission for fear of rejection...then there is, as sbell1 likes to brag, the dirty secret.

 

I'd say people ask permission every time they feel that they should and don't ask where it's not neccessary. Same as every other activity we do.

 

I see you don't acknowledge "don't ask when it is necessary" in that view.

[+Renegade Knight]

Caching has no secretes. Our story is out there for the entier world to see.

 

Yet, people feel like they have to avoid getting explicit permission for fear of rejection...then there is, as sbell1 likes to brag, the dirty secret.

 

I'd say people ask permission every time they feel that they should and don't ask where it's not neccessary. Same as every other activity we do.

 

I see you don't acknowledge "don't ask when it is necessary" in that view.

You should always ask when it's necessary.

[+egami]

Caching has no secretes. Our story is out there for the entier world to see.

 

Yet, people feel like they have to avoid getting explicit permission for fear of rejection...then there is, as sbell1 likes to brag, the dirty secret.

 

I'd say people ask permission every time they feel that they should and don't ask where it's not neccessary. Same as every other activity we do.

 

I see you don't acknowledge "don't ask when it is necessary" in that view.

You should always ask when it's necessary.

 

That doesn't address the comment, but sure...

[+sbell111]

Caching has no secretes. Our story is out there for the entier world to see.

 

Yet, people feel like they have to avoid getting explicit permission for fear of rejection...then there is, as sbell1 likes to brag, the dirty secret.

Huh? I have no idea what you are talking about.

 

Of course, maybe sbell1 is someone else entirely.

[+sbell111]

Caching has no secretes. Our story is out there for the entier world to see.

Yet, people feel like they have to avoid getting explicit permission for fear of rejection...then there is, as sbell1 likes to brag, the dirty secret.

I'd say people ask permission every time they feel that they should and don't ask where it's not neccessary. Same as every other activity we do.

I see you don't acknowledge "don't ask when it is necessary" in that view.

You should always ask when it's necessary.

That doesn't address the comment, but sure...

Isn't it obvious that someone wouldn't ask if it wasn't necessary?

 

Don't ask when it's necessary? That doesn't make a lick of sense and no one has given that advice.

Edited February 1, 2008 by sbell111

[+HopsMaltYeast]

We all quickly learn that following a “Geo Trail” can be a fast track to finding a GeoCache – so obviously our sport does impact the environment when the cache is off the beaten path – the objective is to minimize that impact or assure that it is not happening to a sensitive location.

 

Since I've been geocaching I've been hearing about this "geotrail" problem, yet I've never encountered it in the kinds of areas where it would be a concern.

 

I've seen a handful of them and every one was when the cache was a short distance from parking (LT 50 feet) or in heavily used urban parks. They put a parking lot or a swing set there so how sensitive can the area really be?

 

From what I've observed the backcountry caches where geotrails could be a concern are visited so infrequently that the geotrails (social trails, herd paths or whatever you call them) rarely form.

 

Sorry to go too far OT, but this geotrail nonsense is constantly promoted as a fact and I've had enough discussions with anti-geocachers about the subject.

 

Brainsnat, not to put too sharp of a point on it - we are not at odds in any way that I can see, but you pulled one phrase out of my comments somewhat out of context. I was speaking of sensitive areas on NPS land that may or may not be in the back country. I was not talking about urban locations with swing sets. Nor was I talking about the already trashed land behind the Big-box store parking lot.

 

Geo Trails are not a concern in those spots.

 

Geo Trails in the far outback locations are not likely to occur from what I have seen so far. There is a GeoCache near my home in a sensitive area that takes some effort to reach. It has been there for several years and only 2 finds have been recorded. This is not my concern.

 

There are sensitive areas on NPS land that are heavily traveled on maintained and groomed trails that minimize damage and maximize access/enjoyment if folks stay on the walking trails.

 

That was my point of concern and perhaps I did a poor job of describing that.

 

My concern is that a well intentioned, but uninformed, GeoCacher might place a cache 30 yards off a heavily used trail and 30 GeoCachers a year going off trail to find it would cause long term damage to very sensitive land that would ruin the experience for thousands of other visitors.

 

I live in Florida. One or two innocent folks traipsing across the sand dunes on a pristine beach pulling a few Sea Oats for keepsakes seems insignificant and probably is. However, those actions can cause damage that take mother nature 100 years to reverse - then multiply that by thousands of folks up and down the coast. Same with idiots running motorboats across pristine marsh flats and chewing up the weeds and vegetation – it will take decades for nature to repair and reverse the upset to the delicate balance of nature that produce the fish these idiots are pursuing.

 

My point was to advocate communication with the NPS or other experts to thoughtfully place caches on our National Park lands to minimize our impact on sensitive areas, not to say we should not have any Geo Cache trails.

 

I want to have thoughtful caches on NPS land. I would like to place a cache in such an area.

 

I apologize that I did a poor job of connecting these thoughts. That is my fault. I think we agree on the big issues.

 

To the person that said deer leave trails so get rid of deer – all I can say is “get a life” and you are a poor troll. Deer do not leave trails straight up mountains that promote erosion. Deer trails in the mountains follow switchback patterns. So should hikers and GeoCachers. Yes, I realize you were probably joking.

[+egami]

Caching has no secretes. Our story is out there for the entier world to see.

Yet, people feel like they have to avoid getting explicit permission for fear of rejection...then there is, as sbell1 likes to brag, the dirty secret.

I'd say people ask permission every time they feel that they should and don't ask where it's not neccessary. Same as every other activity we do.

I see you don't acknowledge "don't ask when it is necessary" in that view.

You should always ask when it's necessary.

That doesn't address the comment, but sure...

Isn't it obvious that someone wouldn't ask if it wasn't necessary?

 

Again, not addressing the comment.

[+sbell111]

Caching has no secretes. Our story is out there for the entier world to see.

Yet, people feel like they have to avoid getting explicit permission for fear of rejection...then there is, as sbell1 likes to brag, the dirty secret.

I'd say people ask permission every time they feel that they should and don't ask where it's not neccessary. Same as every other activity we do.

I see you don't acknowledge "don't ask when it is necessary" in that view.

You should always ask when it's necessary.

That doesn't address the comment, but sure...

Isn't it obvious that someone wouldn't ask if it wasn't necessary?

Again, not addressing the comment.

Perhaps you could spell it out.

 

I don't know what you are fishing for, but I think that your bait might have turned.

Edited February 1, 2008 by sbell111

[+egami]

Caching has no secretes. Our story is out there for the entier world to see.

Yet, people feel like they have to avoid getting explicit permission for fear of rejection...then there is, as sbell1 likes to brag, the dirty secret.

I'd say people ask permission every time they feel that they should and don't ask where it's not neccessary. Same as every other activity we do.

I see you don't acknowledge "don't ask when it is necessary" in that view.

You should always ask when it's necessary.

That doesn't address the comment, but sure...

Isn't it obvious that someone wouldn't ask if it wasn't necessary?

Again, not addressing the comment.

Perhaps you could spell it out.

 

I don't know what you are fishing for, but I think that your bait might have turned.

 

It don't play your game of "loaded questions". I don't need to.

[+sbell111]

Caching has no secretes. Our story is out there for the entier world to see.

Yet, people feel like they have to avoid getting explicit permission for fear of rejection...then there is, as sbell1 likes to brag, the dirty secret.

I'd say people ask permission every time they feel that they should and don't ask where it's not neccessary. Same as every other activity we do.

I see you don't acknowledge "don't ask when it is necessary" in that view.

You should always ask when it's necessary.

That doesn't address the comment, but sure...

Isn't it obvious that someone wouldn't ask if it wasn't necessary?

Again, not addressing the comment.

Perhaps you could spell it out.

 

I don't know what you are fishing for, but I think that your bait might have turned.

It don't play your game of "loaded questions". I don't need to.

You were working pretty hard to get an answer, I was just trying to figure out the question.

[+Renegade Knight]

You were working pretty hard to get an answer, I was just trying to figure out the question.

 

I have the same problem. Try to give a real answer and you didn't answer the question. Ask for clarification and you just get slapped in the face for your efforts. He doesn't care abour your opinion but makes sure to give his on yours.

[+egami]

You were working pretty hard to get an answer, I was just trying to figure out the question.

 

Um, no...

 

a) it wasn't a question to begin with

I only made one addition comment referencing it to him before you tried to go down a dead end

Edited February 1, 2008 by egami

[+HopsMaltYeast]

That's another question.

 

If they ask tell them. Caching is a viable activity and there is nothing secret about it.

 

To clarify: I'm presupposing this question would be posed AFTER I was denied permission for my cache.

 

In that case, just give 'em name, rank (number of finds), and geocaching userid.

 

(regarding geotrails... deer leave trails in the parks. I say get rid of the deer!)

 

My cat's breath smells like cat food.

[+sbell111]

That's another question.

 

If they ask tell them. Caching is a viable activity and there is nothing secret about it.

 

To clarify: I'm presupposing this question would be posed AFTER I was denied permission for my cache.

 

In that case, just give 'em name, rank (number of finds), and geocaching userid.

 

(regarding geotrails... deer leave trails in the parks. I say get rid of the deer!)

 

My cat's breath smells like cat food.

Gross. Our cat's does, too.

 

To make it worse, my wife just got her a new food that's supposed to be better for her. That's all fine and good until she hops up next to you and yawns. It like rotten tuna mixed with road kill.

[+sbell111]

Caching has no secretes. Our story is out there for the entier world to see.

Yet, people feel like they have to avoid getting explicit permission for fear of rejection...then there is, as sbell1 likes to brag, the dirty secret.

BTW, could you explain what you were trying to say about me in THAT post? Edited February 1, 2008 by sbell111

[geo'joe]

Tell the hiders the cache is illegal.

[+egami]

Caching has no secretes. Our story is out there for the entier world to see.

Yet, people feel like they have to avoid getting explicit permission for fear of rejection...then there is, as sbell1 likes to brag, the dirty secret.

BTW, could you explain what you were trying to say about me in THAT post?

 

Your boastful endorsing of what is referred to as the "dirty secret".

[+StarBrand]

....

Your boastful endorsing of what is referred to as the "dirty secret".

I'll bite - what are talking about???!!!????? Be explicit as I am no good at word puzzles......

[+TeamGumbo]

Well, I talked to the manager of the park, but he was hesitant about granting permission, but gave me the number of the Regional Manager of South County Facilities.

 

I left a message with her.

[+ReadyOrNot]

\

Just because they turned you down, doesn't mean that the previous caches weren't placed with permission.

 

Find a different location for your cache.

 

They may have been granted permission originally, but as I stated in the OP, their stance is now "We don't allow geocaches in our park."

 

So everything was fine until you asked permission and now noone can enjoy geocaching in the park... Hmmmmm.. Exactly the reason I ASSUME permission in public locations... Now a perfectly legit activity in a public park is against the rules....

[+TeamGumbo]

Now a perfectly legit activity in a public park is against the rules....

 

I do hope you see the irony...

 

Back on topic: I was on the phone for a while with the regional director, and she seemed pretty receptive to the idea of geocaching. She took a lot of notes during our conversation, and is going to talk it over with another guy who is the regional facilities director.

 

It looks like I am going to be able to meet with her (and maybe him) with an example of a cache container, and hopefully answer all of their question satisfactorily.

 

FTR, this particular park does not have any previous caches.

[+ReadyOrNot]

Now a perfectly legit activity in a public park is against the rules....

I do hope you see the irony...

 

The irony being that you asking for permission to do something that you shouldn't have to ask permission to do has caused the park to arbitrarily ban an activity that they have no right to ban?

 

Yes, that's ironic.

[+TeamGumbo]

 

The irony being that you asking for permission to do something that you shouldn't have to ask permission to do has caused the park to arbitrarily ban an activity that they have no right to ban?

 

It's OK, many folks don't "get" irony...don't let it worry you!

 

Anyway, when I was first thinking about hiding a cache, I clicked on the page for hiding and seeking a cache and it states:

 

"Please make sure to obtain permission from the landowner or land manager and read the guidelines for reporting a cache (last update 02/21/07) prior to placing your geocache."

 

Seems pretty cut and dried, but hey, you've been here a long time and have found plenty of caches so...there.

[+Renegade Knight]

 

The irony being that you asking for permission to do something that you shouldn't have to ask permission to do has caused the park to arbitrarily ban an activity that they have no right to ban?

 

It's OK, many folks don't "get" irony......

 

Part of irony depends on where you stand. While I can see the irony you are talking about, the real irony is what ReadyOrNot has mentioned.

 

Permission to recreate where recreation already happens without problem or incident is automatic.

If there is a policy follow the policy. If not, be respectful as you should be anyway.

Edited February 1, 2008 by Renegade Knight

[+TeamGumbo]

Permission to recreate where recreation already happens without problem or incident is automatic.

If there is a policy follow the policy. If not, be respectful as you should be anyway.

 

I am trying to follow geocaching.com policy (see link above).

 

That people are basically advising against that, on a forum *provided* by geocaching.com, is pretty breathtaking.

[Motorcycle_Mama]

So, let me ask this question. Suppose you go to a park and the regular users of that park routine drink alcoholic beverages in the park. Nobody has ever asked permission. They just do it. And the park manager is unaware of the activity.

 

Then one day, someone decides to be a rule follower and asks the park manager if it is okay to drink alcoholic beverages in the park. The park manager responds that drinking alcoholic beverages is against park policy.

 

Would everyone's attitude be that the park should allow this activity because everyone was already doing it? And would they blame the one person who asked permission?

 

Makes no sense to me.

[+sbell111]

So, let me ask this question. Suppose you go to a park and the regular users of that park routine drink alcoholic beverages in the park. Nobody has ever asked permission. They just do it. And the park manager is unaware of the activity.

 

Then one day, someone decides to be a rule follower and asks the park manager if it is okay to drink alcoholic beverages in the park. The park manager responds that drinking alcoholic beverages is against park policy.

 

Would everyone's attitude be that the park should allow this activity because everyone was already doing it? And would they blame the one person who asked permission?

 

Makes no sense to me.

I would think that they would have to post that policy. If they didn't post the policy and local laws didn't stop me from having a beer at my picnic, I would not need to ask permission before I opened a brewski.

Edited February 1, 2008 by sbell111

[+sbell111]

Permission to recreate where recreation already happens without problem or incident is automatic.

If there is a policy follow the policy. If not, be respectful as you should be anyway.

 

I am trying to follow geocaching.com policy (see link above).

 

That people are basically advising against that, on a forum *provided* by geocaching.com, is pretty breathtaking.

I don't feel like going round and around this issue, yet again, but the guidelines do not require explicit permission for all caches.

[+HopsMaltYeast]

Now a perfectly legit activity in a public park is against the rules....

 

I do hope you see the irony...

 

Back on topic: I was on the phone for a while with the regional director, and she seemed pretty receptive to the idea of geocaching. She took a lot of notes during our conversation, and is going to talk it over with another guy who is the regional facilities director.

 

It looks like I am going to be able to meet with her (and maybe him) with an example of a cache container, and hopefully answer all of their question satisfactorily.

 

FTR, this particular park does not have any previous caches.

 

What the heck is your agenda and purpose for posting?

 

This is like the Bermuda Triangle of GeoCaching.

 

The OP addressed the problem of placing a new GeoCache in a park and "what if" you got refused permission what should you do about existing caches.

 

Then you reference an NPS policy posting (National Park Service).

 

Now you are saying it is a south county park and there are no existing GeoCaches in the site you are interested in.

 

So what the heck is your dilemma?

 

What the heck is your point and do you have one?

 

If you think you don't need permission then place the dang cache.

 

If you think the park requires permission then get permission or place the dang cache somewhere legal. It ain't too dang tough a question.

Edited February 2, 2008 by HopsMaltYeast

[+HopsMaltYeast]

the title of this thread:

 

You ask permission, it's denied...but there are caches there already., Does that mean the previous ones are illegal?

 

Then we find the original poster has not actually asked permission at the time of the original post. Then we find there are not existing caches in the park.

 

My cat's breath smells like cat food - is that significant?

Edited February 2, 2008 by HopsMaltYeast

[+Renegade Knight]

Permission to recreate where recreation already happens without problem or incident is automatic.

If there is a policy follow the policy. If not, be respectful as you should be anyway.

 

I am trying to follow geocaching.com policy (see link above).

 

That people are basically advising against that, on a forum *provided* by geocaching.com, is pretty breathtaking.

That's because you think recreating in a park that allows recreation as something that needs more permission than the simple fact that its already allowed.

[+ReadyOrNot]

My kids seem to have this one figured out...

 

They're being good and quiet and playing nicely together and its getting to be late. They have 2 choices, ask Mom and Dad if they can stay up later or continue doing what they're doing without causing a fuss.. They understand that as long as they are getting along, not screaming and not fighting, I'm going to leave them alone and let them be.

 

Then my youngest son decides he's going to ask me if they can stay up longer and not go to bed. Annoyed that he dared interrupt my quiet time, I tell them all that it's time to go to bed.

 

Can you guess who's getting the swirley?

[+TeamGumbo]

What the heck is your agenda and purpose for posting?

 

To clarify the rules of this site regarding permission to place a cache in a park.

 

This is like the Bermuda Triangle of GeoCaching.

 

?

 

The OP addressed the problem of placing a new GeoCache in a park and "what if" you got refused permission what should you do about existing caches.

 

Then you reference an NPS policy posting (National Park Service).

 

Because someone posted that NPS did not allow caches at NPS sites.

 

Now you are saying it is a south county park and there are no existing GeoCaches in the site you are interested in.

 

At the 1st one I want to place, there are no pre-existing caches, at 2 others there are.

 

So what the heck is your dilemma?

 

?

 

What the heck is your point and do you have one?

 

To clarify the rules of this site regarding permission to place a cache in a park.

 

If you think you don't need permission then place the dang cache.

 

According to the rules of www.geocaching.com, you need to ask permission.

 

If you think the park requires permission then get permission or place the dang cache somewhere legal.

 

That's what I'm trying to do.

 

It ain't too dang tough a question.

 

lol!

[+TeamGumbo]

It seems the consensus, both here and via emails and PMs I'm getting, is: disregard the rules, just place the thing.

 

My apologies for asking.

Edited February 2, 2008 by VickersDavis

[+Renegade Knight]

It seems the consensus, both here and via emails and PMs I'm getting, is: disregard the rules, just place the thing.

 

My apologies for asking.

 

Just for kicks I thought I would look up the rules for parks for a random city. Bismark ND. Never been there.

 

Turns out they are sponsoring a treasure hunt.

http://www.bisparks.org/

 

I love the irony. Do you think they allow geocaching? Or is geocaching banned so they can do the treasure hunt thing? I suspect the park system there understands the concept of hiding and seeking things on their lands as a recreational activity. Many other towns sponsor easter egg hunts. There is nothing strange about the entire concept to most parks. I don't know the parks so I guess it is possible they have banned caching and yet promote the identical concept.

 

Are you after a sign in the front of the park that explicitly allows every allowable activity so you can be sure? If you ask them about that they would look at you funny. Most parks actually allow their users to recreate using their own judgment so long as they are not disruptive or destructive.

Edited February 2, 2008 by Renegade Knight

[+TeamGumbo]

 

Are you after a sign in the front of the park that explicitly allows every allowable activity so you can be sure? If you ask them about that they would look at you funny. Most parks actually allow their users to recreate using their own judgment so long as they are not disruptive or destructive.

 

Again, from the page about hiding a cache:

 

"If you place the cache on public lands you need to contact the managing agency to find out about their rules."

 

I have done that. Apparently that was wrong.

Edited February 2, 2008 by VickersDavis

[+Difranco]

There is no need to go get permission from the Park care taker.... the general public owns the park NOT the City.

 

When you go to most any park they have signs telling you during what hours you can be there, keep dogs on leashes, no glass, no alcohol, pickup your dog crap, etc. If "Geocaching" is not one of the explictly banned activities then it is allowed. This society's entire legal system is based upon Negative law not Positive law. (i.e. It's allowed until a specific law is passed to regulate it or ban it.) I know a radical concept in free society where you are not treated as a child and don't need permission for everything you do. (Words to associate.. Freedom, Liberty.)

 

If there is no specific posted or publicly published rule and there are already caches in the park, then they haven't been problem which raised the interest of park care takers to take action upon the unregulated activity.

 

So place you caches being mindful of the park rules, environment, and be smart about it. Inform your cache seekers about possible sensitive areas, dangers, and everything should be fine.

Edited February 2, 2008 by Difranco

[CoyoteRed]

I don't care what anyone else has done...I ask permission. At the end of the day you don't want it to be your cache that was the one that caused a problem.

Nor do you want to be the one that caused the problem when you public expose the previously hidden caches. I've been in a similar situation and it's a bit of a hot seat to be in when you're "the good guy" asking for permission and others haven't. It's all about how you approach the issue.

[CoyoteRed]

What would you do?

Depends on what exactly I wanted to pursue.

 

If I thought the park system was worth the effort I might want to try to get a favorable policy in place. If the park wasn't worth the effort, I'd move on.

 

Also, make sure you're asking the right person. Sometimes flunkies don't know what is going on and will say "no" just to get you out of their office. However, sometimes you might even get a "yes" from the park superintendent and later the park board comes down with a negative answer. Could be those caches got in that way. It's happened to us.

 

Just be careful. Sometimes these situations could be like stepping into an old shed. When your eyes adjust to the gloom you notice the massive wasp nests. You do nothing but back away slowly...

[Luckless]

 

Are you after a sign in the front of the park that explicitly allows every allowable activity so you can be sure? If you ask them about that they would look at you funny. Most parks actually allow their users to recreate using their own judgment so long as they are not disruptive or destructive.

 

Again, from the page about hiding a cache:

 

"If you place the cache on public lands you need to contact the managing agency to find out about their rules."

 

I have done that. Apparently that was wrong.

You're not wrong. The rules were written to protect geocaching .com. and they were written in the best interest of the game. I prefer to get permission because I don't like the feeling that I'm sneaking around -whether there's any truth to that or not. Because I've gotten permission I'll even wave hi to the land owners when I go to maintain a cache and I don't worry so much about the managers causing trouble for cache hunters wondering what's going on when they see people skulking about in the bushes- because they know why they are out there skulking about in the bushes (at least I hope they do - sometimes there are too many committees and workers that one doesn't always tell the other what's going on so even then you've got problems). But you should be aware that even getting permission, which is no easy task in itself, could backfire and cause problems because now the owners are more aware and more apt to try to regulate geocaching. It's best to just deal with your own caches and not mention any others. I really haven't had any problems, but I do try to think ahead and present a postive view of geocaching and a willingness to work together for the benefit of everybody.

Everyone plays this game their own way. There is no real control with geocaching because it is worldwide. So as someone mentioned we have to police ourselves. I believe the decison to get permission is left up the the cache hiders by geocaching.com to use their best judgement of what is required.

[+Peconic Bay Sailors]

Luckless... Well said...

Edited February 2, 2008 by Peconic Bay Sailors

[+Renegade Knight]

..."If you place the cache on public lands you need to contact the managing agency to find out about their rules."

 

I have done that. Apparently that was wrong.

Good for you. Did they have a rule? Or did you find there were no rules other than the standard park rules? If they had existing rules did you try to find them without wasting their time? Or did you fail to do any legwork walk in, in utter ignorance and ask a lot of question without having done your homework? How did you figure out who was the right person to ask? If they had geocaching rules it would be spelled out. If they didn't see the need it would be an interesting problem to find out who.

Edited February 2, 2008 by Renegade Knight

[+Peconic Bay Sailors]

Tell the hiders the cache is illegal.

How would you know if a cache was illegal?

They may have gotten "special permission" to place the cache...

Something that only the cache owner and the approver are privy to???

There are many extenuating circumstance posibilities...

 

like... the owner or manager of the proiperty might say...

"You are my brother (wife, sister, husband best friend, the guy holding a gun to may head, "you bought me a beer and you, only you, can put one there", etc), so I will allow your cache here on this property, but no others"...

 

so that cache has permission, but all ohers are excluded, unless you can also get permission...

 

My point is...

just because another has gotten an approved cache in some place...

does necessarily not make it open season for anyone to place a cache in that area...

Edited February 2, 2008 by Peconic Bay Sailors

[+Renegade Knight]

After reading dozens upon dozens of threads and pots on when we should and shouldn’t get explicit permission I’m throwing in the towel.

 

It seems that for every Criminal, Coyote Red, Sbell111, Mushtang and others who manage to place caches with exactly the needed level of permission there are dozens upon dozens who don’t understand the concept behind the Frisbee Test well enough to employ it successfully.

 

Based on the dissenting posts I’m thinking the champions of the Mother May I? school of caching are best off doing just that. So whenever anyone posts on needing explicit permission in all cases at all times, I am going to do my best to remember to say “Yes Please Do”. Then maybe they will leave the rest of us, The ones who will sort it all out when they screw things up, alone.

[+Renegade Knight]

I am getting ready to place my first few caches, and I intend to ask permission beforehand (these are local city and county parks)....

 

Yes Please Do.

[+TeamGumbo]

I think *somebody* needs a nap.

[+Renegade Knight]

I think *somebody* needs a nap.

 

Answering your Topic question.

 

You walk into a park and the person you ask says "we don't allow caches in our park". You wanted to know if htat makes the other caches illegal.

 

The answer is no. To be illegal there has to be a law that they are breaking. That would mean a law prohibiting caches and making them an infraction.

 

Rules made up on the spot by the person you asked do not rise to the level of law. That takes an actual policy and policis typically ahve a reviewer period before they have the force of law.

 

The odds of you being slapped in irons and being carted off are about the same as for losing a frisbee.

 

it's hard to answer your real question because the answers to your post have had you annoyed for being the 'wrong answers'. Naturally if you knew the answer it's fair to aak why you needed to ask. But if wan to focus on the entire permission angle a new thread and a more focused question would work well.

Edited February 2, 2008 by Renegade Knight