So what do you think? Is Garmin listening to us about the Colorado?

[+BiT]

Is Garmin listening to us? If so, how fast are they going to react?

 

Is there this much buzz on other forums ( e. g., hiking forums) about the Colorado?

[+apersson850]

I'm not employed by Garmin, but have enough contacts with them to be able to say "yes, they are taking this seriously".

They'll react as soon as their resources available will allow them.

 

No, I think it can be said without hesitation that this forum has at least as much fuzz as the others combined.

[+Manatee87]

Is Garmin listening to us? If so, how fast are they going to react?

 

Is there this much buzz on other forums ( e. g., hiking forums) about the Colorado?

 

I think they're getting all the feedback. And I think they will eventually make the Colorado better than the 60-series. It will take several software updates to get there, though. Even if they can pump out one update per month, it would take a few months to get the product to where it should have been on launch day. I'll apply the updates as they come, and I hope at some point I'll decide that it's features and ease-of-use at least match my 60CSx.

 

 

In the meantime, I'll probably be buying the 405 wristwatch and an 800-series for my car. I hope both of those (especially the 405) get more thorough real-world testing before they go on sale.

[gratefulHIKE]

just be patient....jebus, they know the issues and the order to address them, they aren't an incompetent company...its rough buying a piece of goods that just came out sometimes you just have to ride the tide until it comes back to shore

 

they can only write and test firmware so quickly.....but atleast the units are released and in your hands

[+apersson850]

And I think they will eventually make the Colorado better than the 60-series.

That depends upon what you mean by that. It may never have been their intention to make a unit that contains all functionality from the 60 CSx, and then some. It could have been that they evaluated all these functions, decided that some would be removed, as they didn't think they were essential, but instead opted to add a few new things.

 

By now they've understood that at least some forum members here expected to have all 60 CSx functions + whatever. Which may have been better. I'm not judging, I'm just bringing forward the (possible, as I haven't seen the original specification) standpoint that they never intended that.

[+Manatee87]

they can only write and test firmware so quickly.....but atleast the units are released and in your hands

 

So that's the order of events? 1. Product released to consumers, 2. Write and test firmware?

 

 

I'm in the software development business, and I guess we've been doing it backward.

[Andolin]

they can only write and test firmware so quickly.....but atleast the units are released and in your hands

 

So that's the order of events? 1. Product released to consumers, 2. Write and test firmware?

 

 

I'm in the software development business, and I guess we've been doing it backward.

 

Well, you could always try Magellan who (with their Triton series) have actually released the product with buttons that do nothing when pressed. After checking their website I found a statement that some features of the Tritons will be activated at a later date. - And right back to the retailer it went.

[+Manatee87]

It may never have been their intention to make a unit that contains all functionality from the 60 CSx, and then some. It could have been that they evaluated all these functions, decided that some would be removed, as they didn't think they were essential, but instead opted to add a few new things.

 

We all have different expectations. Maybe Garmin should publish more detail not only about what is new in the Colorado, but what is different from the previous models. That would help to guide peoples' expectations of the new model. For the more technical buyer, they could also do a "white paper" on what is different, and why. They had to make those decisions during the development process anyway, so they already have a list of the differences.

[Grasscatcher]

Just IMHO......

Really now.........Just imagine how many different opinions, types of users, different uses, what is/is not acceptable, etc.......

 

No matter how much beta testing gets done by how many beta testers on any given piece of equipment, the real test begins when it is released to the public. Even the "Absolutely Perfect Fantastic 60 series" (and every other previously released model) had/has SOME problems.

 

If you are a "First Responder" buyer, relax, take a deep breath, enjoy the learning process, give input and grow with the unit, and expect that Garmin will make whatever changes /improvements are reasonable. Knowing Garmin, it WILL happen, That's in their best interest also........

[+Marky]

Well, you could always try Magellan who (with their Triton series) have actually released the product with buttons that do nothing when pressed. After checking their website I found a statement that some features of the Tritons will be activated at a later date. - And right back to the retailer it went.

I don't blame you. About the only thing the Triton series does well is display NG Topo maps, and that's probably because the NG development team was involved with that part.

[+Team GPSaxophone]

Well, you could always try Magellan who (with their Triton series) have actually released the product with buttons that do nothing when pressed. After checking their website I found a statement that some features of the Tritons will be activated at a later date. - And right back to the retailer it went.

I don't blame you. About the only thing the Triton series does well is display NG Topo maps, and that's probably because the NG development team was involved with that part.

Well geocaching.com was involved in development for the Colorado, but there's a lot of broken stuff in that regard.

[freeday]

I am always wondering what Colorado wanted to be after the gpsmap60csx

 

It is not a step forward after the gpsmap60csx with the actual firmware.

 

It is not a unit to support audio-Wherigo ....

 

Maybe it is a gps for people who ...???? Which target group?

[Baumer]

People who don't want a postage stamp screen, do want a crossover device, appreciate the shaded DEM data, and don't feel a need to load 10,000,000 geocaches at once, yet can afford $600 for bleeding edge equipment.

 

There's 10 people here tops that are the largest complainers about this unit. I appreciate their efforts to help Garmin move the unit and firmware forward, but really, the complaining and expectations of perfection are tiring.

[+3 Hawks]

If we don't complain about substandard performance then that is all we can expect in the future. Once a company gets a signal that perfection is not an expectation, then quality goes out the window. We don't expect one GPSr that can do everything. We only expect that which is brought to market to actually perform as advertised. Innovation for the sake of innovation is nice, but to sacrifice functionality for that end is unacceptable in any industry.

 

With that said, I’m sure Garmin is encouraged to see some people making excuses and marginalizing the problems for them. At what price would the “non-issues” become and issues for those who think nothing is wrong with the Colorado and that Garmin should get a “well at least you tried hard” and passed for “good” effort??

[+apersson850]

We only expect that which is brought to market to actually perform as advertised.

Do you have any link to the advertisement?

[+3 Hawks]

We only expect that which is brought to market to actually perform as advertised.

Do you have any link to the advertisement?

 

Look on the back cover of this month's Back Packer Magazine. I'm at work right now, but I'd be more than happy to post the entire ad text. In summary, the add talks about how easy it is to load waypoints, POI's, tracks, and geocaches. The ad talks about how easy it is to use the interface and the picture of the 400t is a Topo image with elevation text. It opens with something to the extent that the Colorado is intended for the serious user.

[+Marky]

I appreciate their efforts to help Garmin move the unit and firmware forward, but really, the complaining and expectations of perfection are tiring.

I would have to agree with you Baumer. I think the continual reposting of the same issues or just generic complaints about business decisions is counterproductive. Fortunately, most of the people in this forum are offering good feedback that will hopefully be taken to heart by the folks working to improve this GPS line. I am optimistic that this unit will eventually be able to do what I want it to do. I wish I could say the same for the Triton line. Magellan can prove me wrong and I wouldn't mind.

[+3 Hawks]

I appreciate their efforts to help Garmin move the unit and firmware forward, but really, the complaining and expectations of perfection are tiring.

I would have to agree with you Baumer. I think the continual reposting of the same issues or just generic complaints about business decisions is counterproductive. Fortunately, most of the people in this forum are offering good feedback that will hopefully be taken to heart by the folks working to improve this GPS line. I am optimistic that this unit will eventually be able to do what I want it to do. I wish I could say the same for the Triton line. Magellan can prove me wrong and I wouldn't mind.

 

If I had feelings, they might have been hurt by that snipe.

[yogazoo]

We only expect that which is brought to market to actually perform as advertised.

Do you have any link to the advertisement?

 

Look on the back cover of this month's Back Packer Magazine. I'm at work right now, but I'd be more than happy to post the entire ad text. In summary, the add talks about how easy it is to load waypoints, POI's, tracks, and geocaches. The ad talks about how easy it is to use the interface and the picture of the 400t is a Topo image with elevation text. It opens with something to the extent that the Colorado is intended for the serious user.

 

This is exactly why we "gripe" and "complain". Marketed as an easy to use, serious navigation tool. Currently, one could argue those points. And we do. The current configuration of the Colorado makes it easy to argue those points.

 

If this is the feature set and software format they intend to use as a model for future "Serious" navigation tools, then I hope that someone else steps up, Maggie? De-Lorme? Bushnell? cause' it'll be the last one I purchase from Garmin.

 

Trust us, when/if the issues are addressed, we will be the first to sing the praises.

Edited January 29, 2008 by yogazoo

[+4America]

they can only write and test firmware so quickly.....but atleast the units are released and in your hands

 

So that's the order of events? 1. Product released to consumers, 2. Write and test firmware?

 

 

I'm in the software development business, and I guess we've been doing it backward.

 

Ready

 

Fire

 

Aim

[+Paul_Aris]

You think part of the problem is that there was a limited number of these released as exclusive to REI and the rest of us who has them ordered didn't get them yet because Garmin has not shipped them yet. You have to wonder why they did not ship them yet? Perhaps they are not done testing and finishing the software?

[gratefulHIKE]

I would always think that is how they release newer electronics......is by making the hardware itself function well together, then periodically releasing firmware to make the hardware itself function more efficiently

 

isnt that how it is always done? or why else would firmware even be around?????!???!?

[+apersson850]

No, not always. The difference now is that internet with high-speed access has become so common, that it's easy for a user to download and install a new firmware.

At the same time, flash memory has evolved to such an extent, that storing and changing the firmware in the unit is simple.

 

That's why we see this becoming more and more common. My dishwasher has upgradeable firmware, you can buy a flash gun where the firmware can be updated, not to mention the camera itself, of course.

This will probably come in simpler and simpler things, like bread toasters, power drills, wives, golf clubs and so on.

 

The bad thing is that all these things will enter the market with more and more flaws. The good thing is that you can fix it easily.

 

Back Packer Magazine is not in the magazine racks in Sweden, of course. I haven't seen any ads for the Colorado.

Edited January 30, 2008 by apersson850

[+3 Hawks]

 

That's why we see this becoming more and more common. My dishwasher has upgradeable firmware, you can buy a flash gun where the firmware can be updated, not to mention the camera itself, of course.

This will probably come in simpler and simpler things, like bread toasters, power drills, wives, golf clubs and so on.

 

The bad thing is that all these things will enter the market with more and more flaws. The good thing is that you can fix it easily.

 

Back Packer Magazine is not in the magazine racks in Sweden, of course. I haven't seen any ads for the Colorado.

 

You are a very brave and/or foolish man!!!

 

This months BackPacker magazine was the 2008 equipment issue. In other words, the whole issue is just a bunch of advertisements and recommendations. One of the recurring features in the magazine is a GPSr column and they provide information (basic to advanced) on how to unlock some of the features of a hand held GPSr. They even explained how to use your GPSr as a weather prediction device when in the field.

[+apersson850]

Or divorced...

 

Using the pressure sensor, the weather prediction is possible, of course. At least assuming the clock is running properly, or you keep the unit on all the time.

[+3 Hawks]

Or divorced...

 

Using the pressure sensor, the weather prediction is possible, of course. At least assuming the clock is running properly, or you keep the unit on all the time.

 

They explained how you could use your altimeter readings, if you don't have a unit with a pressure sensor, to predict the weather while in the field. In their example, you are at a base camp at 10,000 feet. You haven not moved for 5 hours but your altimeter shows an increase or decrease in altitude over that time. By tracking and charting the changes, you can tell if low or high pressure is moving into the area.

[anethema]

You have certainly misread that article!

 

If you do not have a pressure sensor (known as a barometer) then your altitude reading comes from satellite triangulation. This will definitely not change with weather. You need a barometer in your GPSr to make this work.

 

Or divorced...

 

Using the pressure sensor, the weather prediction is possible, of course. At least assuming the clock is running properly, or you keep the unit on all the time.

 

They explained how you could use your altimeter readings, if you don't have a unit with a pressure sensor, to predict the weather while in the field. In their example, you are at a base camp at 10,000 feet. You haven not moved for 5 hours but your altimeter shows an increase or decrease in altitude over that time. By tracking and charting the changes, you can tell if low or high pressure is moving into the area.

[+CelticDave]

This is in response to another topic about the meet and greet held in Seattle. The author of that thread and this one are the same so I decided to go ahead and repost here. I will add something here. While Anders does not work for Garmin I know from talking to reps from Garmin and Groundspeak that his opinions are well respected by both. As the original topic here: "Is Garmin listening?" I can say that I believe they are. The reason that the Colorado is not being sold anywhere else is that REI has exclusive sales of it until early Feb. I watched the Garmin folks updating the units that REI had for sale to the latest firmware and chipset (2.30 and 2.60) I don't believe they are holding them back from the market other than the exclusive with REI.

 

My wife and I attended the morning session. First let me start by saying the event today was to show off Wherigo, the features and problems with the Colorado were not discussed as part of the event. The information that I received was from my conversations with the Garmin and Groundspeak folks and I appreciated the time they spent with me. I don’t have any specific information about what they are doing and I did not really expect to get that. I will share with you that Garmin and Groundspeak are VERY aware of all of the problems encountered with the Colorado. They are monitoring the forums closely and are hearing everyone’s complaints and concerns. I got a severe roll of the eyes when I talked about my negative experience with the customer service tech. For those who have not read that one. I called customer service and tried to get information about the problems I was encountering. Customer Service told me that they did not even have the units in hand and could only talk about the functions of the unit. He refused to take any of the information about bugs or issues because “we have beta testers and they report those problems directly to the engineers”. I think the Garmin reps were surprised by that.

 

The fixes to the geocaching features are a top priority and there is a group dedicated to that end. Yes geocaches will be shown on the map. The problems with streets not showing up on the maps are also being addressed. Suffice it to say that there WILL be a way to show caches as found. I don’t want to lead anyone on that I have any super secret information because I don’t. The questions that I asked were acknowledged and I was given what I thought were credible and sincere answers. I did suggest they needed to do a better job of letting their customers know what is going on and what timeframes we should expect for the needed changes.

 

Like the rest of you who have gone out and spent the $$$ for the Colorado, I would have hoped they would have had a solid unit with each and every feature that I would want in a GPSr. Obviously the Colorado was released prior to being ready for the geocaching world. I am willing to be somewhat patient though . I have had mine for a week now with one update to both firmware and the chipset that solved some of the biggest problems like battery life and the backlight problem so those are good things. Without those updates I would have a different opinion at this point I am sure.

 

For me, I have learned the work arounds needed for the Colorado to function better than my 60cs so I am ahead of the game already. Right now I have over 5000 caches on the main memory (as poi files and 1000 of those have full cache descriptions and logs) with mapping of the western U.S. and part of Canada. I will wait patiently and give Garmin the opportunity (and a little breathing room) to make the needed changes to improve the caching features.

[+3 Hawks]

You have certainly misread that article!

 

If you do not have a pressure sensor (known as a barometer) then your altitude reading comes from satellite triangulation. This will definitely not change with weather. You need a barometer in your GPSr to make this work.

 

Or divorced...

 

Using the pressure sensor, the weather prediction is possible, of course. At least assuming the clock is running properly, or you keep the unit on all the time.

 

They explained how you could use your altimeter readings, if you don't have a unit with a pressure sensor, to predict the weather while in the field. In their example, you are at a base camp at 10,000 feet. You haven not moved for 5 hours but your altimeter shows an increase or decrease in altitude over that time. By tracking and charting the changes, you can tell if low or high pressure is moving into the area.

 

Oops and duh!! You are correct regarding the barometer, but they also worked altitude readings into the prediction tool. Then again, if you have a barometer in your GPS, why would you need to look at altitude changes to tell you the pressure was dropping and a storm was approaching? I might have to read that one again.

[+apersson850]

Some simpler units, that have pressure sensors (not the Garmin GPS units), don't show the pressure itself. They show elevation only. That's probably why they were teaching the trick to look at the elevation.

 

The Colorado also has the ability to save the pressure at regular intervals, so you can look at the pressure plot for the night when you wake up next day, without having to keep the unit on all the time, to gather statistics. As you can here easily switch between elevation vs. pressure plotted over time, you don't need to know how to convert imaginary elevation changes into weather prediction.

 

While Anders does not work for Garmin I know from talking to reps from Garmin and Groundspeak that his opinions are well respected by both.

Nice to hear that some people at Garmin appreciates my contributions, especially considering that you probably met my main contact for the Colorado at that meet...

[+Evshro & son]

Some simpler units, that have pressure sensors (not the Garmin GPS units), don't show the pressure itself. They show elevation only. That's probably why they were teaching the trick to look at the elevation.

 

The Colorado also has the ability to save the pressure at regular intervals, so you can look at the pressure plot for the night when you wake up next day, without having to keep the unit on all the time, to gather statistics. As you can here easily switch between elevation vs. pressure plotted over time, you don't need to know how to convert imaginary elevation changes into weather prediction.

 

While Anders does not work for Garmin I know from talking to reps from Garmin and Groundspeak that his opinions are well respected by both.

Nice to hear that some people at Garmin appreciates my contributions, especially considering that you probably met my main contact for the Colorado at that meet...

 

I think it would go a long way if we were to see a rep. from Garmin on these boards sharing any helpful information. I know that there is a Delorme rep. that shows up from time to time.

 

Also, if the wife if capable of accepting flash memory....where we would we put it?????

[+g-o-cashers]

I did get a nice email tonight from Garmin indicating that they have received the Issues List through several people, that it has been forwarded to engineering and they will try to provide some insight into which issues might be fixed and which ones are not going to be addressed. I'm being optimistic!

 

GO$Rs

[+Manatee87]

Great news! You did a great job compiling the list. I'm sure Garmin will do their best to address th most frustrating of the issues. They'll probably do a few rounds of fixes and enhancements.

 

 

I've also been in touch with them about posting a more comprehensive feature list on their website, and possibly some information about the differences in the way certain features work in the new models.

[+RRLover]

Some simpler units, that have pressure sensors (not the Garmin GPS units), don't show the pressure itself. They show elevation only. That's probably why they were teaching the trick to look at the elevation.

 

The Colorado also has the ability to save the pressure at regular intervals, so you can look at the pressure plot for the night when you wake up next day, without having to keep the unit on all the time, to gather statistics. As you can here easily switch between elevation vs. pressure plotted over time, you don't need to know how to convert imaginary elevation changes into weather prediction.

 

While Anders does not work for Garmin I know from talking to reps from Garmin and Groundspeak that his opinions are well respected by both.

Nice to hear that some people at Garmin appreciates my contributions, especially considering that you probably met my main contact for the Colorado at that meet...

 

I think it would go a long way if we were to see a rep. from Garmin on these boards sharing any helpful information. I know that there is a Delorme rep. that shows up from time to time.

 

Also, if the wife if capable of accepting flash memory....where we would we put it?????

Ahhh Yes . . . The 'Stepford' firmware upgrade, careful what you wish for, you just might get it!

 

Norm

 

P.S. :

 

If anything I'd like the memory inhibited just a little bit, somethings are better forgotten!

[freeday]

I did get a nice email tonight from Garmin indicating that they have received the Issues List through several people, that it has been forwarded to engineering and they will try to provide some insight into which issues might be fixed and which ones are not going to be addressed. I'm being optimistic!

 

GO$Rs

That sounds great I'm also very optimistic!

please keep us up to date if garmin tells you what is going on to be fixed or not.

g-o-cashers - you are :D :D

maybe i'll order a Colorado soon