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Maintaining OTHER cacher's caches


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My search really didn't come up with a definate thread about this so here it is....

 

I'm curious about maintenance on other's caches. Example: I show up at a micro in the park and the log is full or wet. I have the means available to replace the log. Should I?

 

What if the tupperware container is cracked and I have an acceptable replacement. Is it okay to swap bad for good? Even if the old tupperware has the GC.com sticker and the new does not?

 

Obviously I would log the maintenance or email the owner about work done.

"THIS IS NOT A BILL. Here's the invoice..."

:)

 

Your thoughts on this?

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If it were my cache I'd rather you left it alone and just mentioned the condition in the log. I'm sure though that many cache owners would be thrilled if you fixed up their cache.

 

I think minor repairs like duct taping a crack, or adding a logbook, pencil, or new plastic bag are fine. As far as replacing the container or other major repairs, I don't think you should unless you've discussed it with the owner and have his OK.

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I've done maintenance on caches where I know the owner.

 

I wouldn't hesitate to add a log to a cache, though with micro caches sometimes you can't add new paper without removing the old. That's a different matter and I wouldn't do it.

 

I've dried cache contents and baggied them and returned them to failed containers. And so noted in my log. I'd be hesitant to replace the container, again, unless I know the owner.

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I think it is a good idea. If the old cache log is still readable you could leave it in the cache with the new logbook. I've been replacing cache boxes and logbooks etc in my area and if the cache hasn't been visited for over a year I try to remember to take some cache maintenance items with me.

 

I don't know the cache maintenance situation in your part of the world, but here in Saudi Arabia most of the cachers are expatriates and thus sometimes you run into caches where the cacher is no more living in the country. That makes any maintenance for the cache owners of course pretty much impossible, but it would be shame to archive all those nice caches if some minor cache fixing is needed. Luckily in here the area is so dry and there isn't many muggles around, so usually the caches stay in mint condition for several years.

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If I can, I will always add a new log and/or bag if the cache needs it (but only if there is room: I will never remove an old/used log). If a cache is in dire need of replacement--and If I have an appropriate replacement container--I will change it out if it is in a remote area and it's not visited very often. Either way, of course, an appropriate log is made to inform the owner.

As a cache owner I may naturally be particular about what container I choose to put where, but any fellow cacher helping me out is appreciated. :smile:

Edited by JeepinCalifornia
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My search really didn't come up with a definate thread about this so here it is....

 

I'm curious about maintenance on other's caches. Example: I show up at a micro in the park and the log is full or wet. I have the means available to replace the log. Should I?

 

What if the tupperware container is cracked and I have an acceptable replacement. Is it okay to swap bad for good? Even if the old tupperware has the GC.com sticker and the new does not?

 

Obviously I would log the maintenance or email the owner about work done.

"THIS IS NOT A BILL. Here's the invoice..."

:smile:

 

Your thoughts on this?

 

I for one would be thanking you for saving me the time and the trip! But! I would like to get to read log.

 

I've replaced many a missing, full or damaged logs in my travels and try to keep some with me when I'm caching. I find that nano's and bison tube logs are ususlly the ones needing the most attention.

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I for one would be thanking you for saving me the time and the trip! But! I would like to get to read log.

 

I've replaced many a missing, full or damaged logs in my travels and try to keep some with me when I'm caching. I find that nano's and bison tube logs are ususlly the ones needing the most attention.

Yeah, I thought about bringing the full log home(and leave a new one), emailing the owner and asking if they would like me to mail it to them. I could scan and email if it's not wet or unreadable.

 

There's caches around here that the online logs say needs new logbook...added scrap of paper...etc. I think it's better to fix the problem when the owner doesn't note maintenance on the cache after a month or more of these types of logs. I figure it's either help 'em out or ask that the cache be archived.

Would I be excommunicated from GC.com for this line of thinking?

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Repairs to a container and replacing logbooks is a very nice thing to do. I have stuffed remaining swag into a smaller new container and put it inside a ruined older one. I would be hesitant about removing a bad one and putting a new one in unless the cache owner ok'd that.

 

I carry a fairly complete cache repair kit with me and am glad to help out where and when I can.

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I have left laminated versions of "stache notes" as swag/trade and maybe replaced items into a new zip baggie if the one there was worn out, maybe leave a new pencil too.

 

I would definately make it known to the owner if the container was compromised and needed to be replaced, but I wouldnt take it on myself to do it. If it was really bad and needed to be weatherproofed, some duct tape over a crack or hole, and if it fit, I would put the whole cache in a large zip baggie .

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Minor repairs, yes. Replace a container, NO!!!

 

I know of multiple instances where someone thought they were replacing a missing/damaged container. In one case, they couldn't find it, and were convinced it was gone. In another, they misidentified some random trash as the remnants of a cache container. After "helping", there were now two caches at each location, causing considerable confusion.

 

Basically, don't put out a cache that you're not responsible for.

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I have replaced five caches recently, including two yesterday, all very old ones (5+ years old). In three of the cases I had the owner's consent and thanks in advance; in the other two cases the owner is long since MIA.

 

The "consent" cases varied. In one case the owner has been visiting annually but the problem was noticed since his last visit. In another case the owner is now absentee but still responding to email. In the third case the owner is active but probably too busy to visit the cache. In all cases the caches should need very little maintenance going forward, as I replaced the containers with ammo cans and none have had any muggling issues.

 

The MIA cases were pretty easy calls. They were old and popular and in good locations. I also replaced them with ammo cans. I figure that when I've fired enough emails at the owners with no response, I'll request non-consensual adoptions and then try to find permanent owners. (I won't be in the area permanently.)

 

I threw out nearly all of the swag in 3 of the 5, about half in the 4th, and kept most in the 5th. In two cases I replaced the log book. The condition of the contents didn't really leave any question about what to do.

 

There was no chance of misidentification in any of these cases. In all but one case, there was adequate identification still legible (though in some cases slimy :( ), and the remaining case contained a log book (albeit underwater) and fit numerous posted descriptions. Had there been any doubt about the ID, I'd have been a lot more hesitant.

 

OTOH, I found a 6-month-old cache yesterday which was poorly set up (by a 0-find 1-hide cacher) and already has a hole in the container. I added a ziploc freezer bag and a stash note. No way will I go to the trouble to do major fixes for that cache.

 

BTW ... ammo cans are heavy. :D I carried one on my back for over five hours yesterday.

 

Edward

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While I haven't actually maintained a cache that I have found, I intend to. One that I want to get to soon has several maintance logs, yet no one has yet done it. New log, new baggie. I looked at the cache owners info and found that they haven't visited geocaching.com for over a year, so I am assuming they are MIA. I carry spare logs, pencils, sharpener, baggies, etc. with me for just this reason. If the container is big enough to hold both logs, I'd certainly leave the orginal there.

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We have replaced two cache containers, after consultation with the owners. As a matter of course we replace baggies, pencils, log books etc as needed. We dry out cache containers (have learnt to carry a little towel in our gear for this) - we are not generally at a cache long enough to dry out soggy logbooks, but will put a new dry one in with a new plastic bag.

 

We have also thrown out completely saturated logbooks and swag that is sodden or mouldy. We aim to leave the cache in a better state than we found it, if maintenance is needed. We sometimes log what we have done, some times not, and some times email the owner privately.

 

We do for other caches and cachers what we would hope someone would do for us and our caches if needed.

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I have only performed maintentance on one cache so far. I went looking for a disabled cache that hadn't been found in many months even though several had searched and logged DNF's. The owner had disabled it almost a year prior and hadn't done anything to it since. When I found the cache (a bison) I found the logged soaked and the o-ring in tatters. I replaced the o-ring and the log. I had planned on an absent-owner adoption but when I emailed, they actually responded! I don't know why they were waiting so long to do anything with the cache, but they thanked me and re-enabled the listing a couple weeks later.

 

It was a great hide, and I was trying to keep a good cache alive for future cachers. I ended up feeling like a stooge for doing the work of a lazy (local!!) cache owner.

 

BTW ... ammo cans are heavy. :laughing: I carried one on my back for over five hours yesterday.

 

Edward

 

You should try carrying them when they are full of ammo!

 

SD

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Minor repairs, yes. Replace a container, NO!!!

 

I know of multiple instances where someone thought they were replacing a missing/damaged container. In one case, they couldn't find it, and were convinced it was gone. In another, they misidentified some random trash as the remnants of a cache container. After "helping", there were now two caches at each location, causing considerable confusion.

 

Basically, don't put out a cache that you're not responsible for.

 

I replaced cracked Tupperware once with a new lock-n-lock, for a long gone cache owner, back in like '05 when I didn't hang around these forums much. But most of the opinions I've seen here since run along the lines of Prime Suspect's, and I tend to agree with that opinion now. Shall I go and take it back? :laughing:

 

Oh, and I make minor repairs all the time, strictly on a good samaritan basis.

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This morning I emailed a cache owner about their log. I offered to replace it and offered to mail the log to them. When I came home from work, I recieved a reply. It said "Uh...I don't remember which one that is. Yeah, I don't care. Throw away the log. I don't know what people see in them." So I'm going to take that as a blanket YES from that cacher for their caches.

 

I feel that you should always leave something in a better condition than you find it in if possible. CITO an area, fix a cache, replace the toilet paper...etc :mad:

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I always do my best to repair/replace wrecked caches. New logs, container repair or replacement, throwing a new notebook in if a log is full but not damaged. I've never had anyone get bent out of shape over it yet.

 

I've actually hauled one cache out that was completely destroyed. It was no longer a cache, it was just garbage in the woods. If a forest ranger had found it, they would have gone ballistic. I logged it as a find and flagged it for archiving when I got home. I probably could have replaced it, but the hider has a history of never maintaining their caches, and I've already repaired too many of theirs. The first few times, a hider gets the benefit of my doubt. After that, they're on their own.

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I've actually hauled one cache out that was completely destroyed. It was no longer a cache, it was just garbage in the woods. If a forest ranger had found it, they would have gone ballistic. I logged it as a find and flagged it for archiving when I got home. I probably could have replaced it, but the hider has a history of never maintaining their caches, and I've already repaired too many of theirs. The first few times, a hider gets the benefit of my doubt. After that, they're on their own.

 

Does make a difference, doesn't it? I've actually replaced one cache container. The logs reported that the container was cracked. I replaced a sandwich container with the same size Lock and Lock. The owner was a nice guy, and a good cache owner, but quite ill. (Since passed away.) No problem helping him out.

Ones like that described above, I don't even bother hunting for anymore. I can think of more than one local cacher who NEVER perform maintenance. 200 hides, and 150 archived for not being maintained?!? If the cache owner doesn't care, neither do I. I've got better things to do.

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I do not believe that cache finders should be EXPECTED to perform maintenance on caches which they find -- other than, of course, repairing any damage that they may personally have accidentally done to the cache -- but I feel that is a nice idea for cachers to do so voluntarily. I almost always carry a cache repair kit with me, and in my finds both in this part of the country and all across the USA, I have often performed cache maintenance as needed on caches (owned by others) that I find; this may include repairing or replacing containers, leaving pens or pencils, installing a new or dry logbook if the old one is fully or soaked, or at least inserting a new and dry log sheet if the old logbook is wet and destroyed. For cachers whom I know, I have done far more voluntarily, including driving to a cache owned by a geo-friend who was out of town on travel, and repeatedly replacing the bottom half (the tube part) of a bison tube hide that was repeatedly being stolen by local muggles (teenagers with nothing better to do...)

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I would replace the container if.....

 

I had the same container

The original was not painted

It was obvious it was the cache, still had all the contents.

 

Would never remove a log, but would add a new one if old could not be used and there was space.

 

Would hope anyone coming across my caches would do the same.

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When someone replaces a missing cache that doesn't belong to him, he doesn't know if it was the land manager who actually removed it in the first place. And when another one pops up, who does the land manager email? Not the person who replaced the cache. He emails the absent owner, and gets no response. All of which gives geocaching a black eye.

 

Had that person just let it be archived and then placed his own cache, or arranged for adoption, then at least any emails concerning the cache would reach the person who's actually taking care of the cache.

Edited by Prime Suspect
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When someone replaces a missing cache that doesn't belong to him, he doesn't know if it was the land manager who actually removed it in the first place.

 

I've never replaced a cache because I assumed it was missing. If there's nothing there, I assume I just can't find it. Only when there is clear and obvious evidence of a damaged or destroyed cache do I perform any maintenance.

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When someone replaces a missing cache that doesn't belong to him, he doesn't know if it was the land manager who actually removed it in the first place.

 

I've never replaced a cache because I assumed it was missing. If there's nothing there, I assume I just can't find it. Only when there is clear and obvious evidence of a damaged or destroyed cache do I perform any maintenance.

But you're just continuing the problem - a cache with an owner who's not maintaining it. Why not let it be archived, and then put out your own cache?

Edited by Prime Suspect
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When someone replaces a missing cache that doesn't belong to him, he doesn't know if it was the land manager who actually removed it in the first place.

 

I've never replaced a cache because I assumed it was missing. If there's nothing there, I assume I just can't find it. Only when there is clear and obvious evidence of a damaged or destroyed cache do I perform any maintenance.

But you're just continuing the problem - a cache with an owner who's not maintaining it. Why not let it be archived, and then put out your own cache?

 

Just to clarify: I don't replace caches because I "think" they're missing. If I can't find them, then it's a simple DNF, not a case of "well, there should have been something here so I'll drop a new one".

 

In fact, I recently found a cache where someone had done exactly that. It's creating a lot of confusion, but the owner hasn't had a chance to get out there and find out what's going on.

 

Regarding work on damaged caches: unless I know the maintenance record of the particular hider, I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that either a) they don't know the cache is in need of maintenance, or B) that it's just happened and I'm the first to discover the situation.

 

As I stated earlier, if the owner has a bad record for maintaining caches, I do nothing on site. I'm not in the habit of buying caching material for people who won't take care of their own stuff. If it's bad, flag for maintenance, if it's truly trashed, haul it out and flag for archiving.

Edited by sataraid1
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I'm curious about maintenance on other's caches. Example: I show up at a micro in the park and the log is full or wet. I have the means available to replace the log. Should I?

 

Yes, I would, and have, replaced log sheets. I carry extra log sheets with me. I frequently find water logged (not damp, but water logged) logs. If the old one is mushy, I toss it and replace it. I also report that in the online log. Nobody's ever seemed to mind me doing their work for them. :drama:

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When someone replaces a missing cache that doesn't belong to him, he doesn't know if it was the land manager who actually removed it in the first place.

 

I've never replaced a cache because I assumed it was missing. If there's nothing there, I assume I just can't find it. Only when there is clear and obvious evidence of a damaged or destroyed cache do I perform any maintenance.

But you're just continuing the problem - a cache with an owner who's not maintaining it. Why not let it be archived, and then put out your own cache?

 

Just to clarify: I don't replace caches because I "think" they're missing. If I can't find them, then it's a simple DNF, not a case of "well, there should have been something here so I'll drop a new one".

 

In fact, I recently found a cache where someone had done exactly that. It's creating a lot of confusion, but the owner hasn't had a chance to get out there and find out what's going on.

 

Regarding work on damaged caches: unless I know the maintenance record of the particular hider, I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that either a) they don't know the cache is in need of maintenance, or :drama: that it's just happened and I'm the first to discover the situation.

 

As I stated earlier, if the owner has a bad record for maintaining caches, I do nothing on site. I'm not in the habit of buying caching material for people who won't take care of their own stuff. If it's bad, flag for maintenance, if it's truly trashed, haul it out and flag for archiving.

None of which negates my prior statement.

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We always carry spare notebooks for logs, and a supply of gallon size Ziplocs. When in snow country, be prepared. Many times, we have enclosed all but the totally destroyed swag in a Ziploc and put is back in the original container that had been damaged. It's common courtesy in these parts

 

It seems that most of the caching teams (husband/wife, etc.) here do the same thing. The individuals seem to be more likely to just log that the cache is wet, moldy, destroyed, and leave it at that.

 

I appreciate it when someone temporarily repairs one of our hides and lets us know. It gives us a day or two to plan a maintenance trip.

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If it was my cache. I would ask you to leave it alone since it isn't yours and then expect that if there was an issue that you would note it in your log.

 

I think this answer is a typical answer you'll get on the forums since mostly hardcore cachers are here. The cachers who've never come here are the cachers who would love it if you replaced their stuff so they won't have to.

 

In general, the way I see it is to just post needs maintanence etc. and the owners who care will maintain. Thee owners who don't care won't do anything and eventually the mods will maintain their caches by archiving them.

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Replace the log. Build up your Geo-Karma points for doing a good deed and drive on. If the cache owner gets offended you did a good deed he/she gets negative Geo-Karma points.

 

This is the official position of the Tao of Cache.

 

Hebrew Hammer

:lol:

 

My search really didn't come up with a definate thread about this so here it is....

 

I'm curious about maintenance on other's caches. Example: I show up at a micro in the park and the log is full or wet. I have the means available to replace the log. Should I?

 

What if the tupperware container is cracked and I have an acceptable replacement. Is it okay to swap bad for good? Even if the old tupperware has the GC.com sticker and the new does not?

 

Obviously I would log the maintenance or email the owner about work done.

"THIS IS NOT A BILL. Here's the invoice..."

:lol:

 

Your thoughts on this?

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I'll throw a little bit in here, lol. I've replaced log sheets, replaced caches, and 99.5% of the time I get a thank you note or nothing is ever said. HOWEVER, one time back in the summer me and another friend cacher were at a non-local cache and we didn't find it. turned out it was indeed gone so we proceeded to replace it with what I had on hand for the trip - a 35 mm film canister. I didn't get the nasty email from the cache owner however my friend did. He was accused of taking a supposedly hard cache (that was gone, mind you) and trying to turn it into some ordinary lamp post type numbers hide. The cache owner neglected the fact that the cache was indeed missing and so we were trying to be nice and replace it, not dumb it down!

 

Anyways it all ended up with the cache owner replacing the 35mm film canister we had left with a bison tube which is what the cache was originally supposed to be. Yes folks, apparently theres a glaring difference, so much so that my friend was informed he'd never see the 35mm film canister again. :blink:

 

Guess it goes to show not everyone takes kindly to replacements! But like I said 99.5% of the ones I've done work on have been appreciated.

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I wasn't talking about replacing a MISSING container. I'd rather see them get archived unless they're Uberpopular. Just replacement of a log or swap of a cruddy container.

 

There's one here in an old butter container. The contents are ALWAYS wet and moldy...yech. When we found it we had to pour out about a cup of water and we smelled like the inside of a coffin for the rest of the day. I'd LOVE to replace that one but the name of the cache is also the container.

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I wasn't talking about replacing a MISSING container. I'd rather see them get archived unless they're Uberpopular. Just replacement of a log or swap of a cruddy container.

 

There's one here in an old butter container. The contents are ALWAYS wet and moldy...yech. When we found it we had to pour out about a cup of water and we smelled like the inside of a coffin for the rest of the day. I'd LOVE to replace that one but the name of the cache is also the container.

Missing or not, you shouldn't be putting out your own container, if it's not your cache.

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We try to bring baggies and such for cache repair. Once we had to remove a smelly, wet log that had returned to its former puply state. We replaced it without question, since it could not be read, or saved. We put the entire cache contents in a zip lock and back into the broken butter dish. We notified the owner.

 

Now...as far as replacing MISSING caches...one of ours states in the description, "not under the light post skirt." It was regularly found when someone wrote, "It was where you said it wasn't" Checking on our cache, we found it intact, where we left it. Under the nearby light post, however, was a film canister with a replacement log! These folks couldn't find ours, so the placed there own! You never really know if its missing or you just have to look harder. By the way, these folks were not signed on to the site, and couldn't be reached. Odd.

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We try to bring baggies and such for cache repair. Once we had to remove a smelly, wet log that had returned to its former puply state. We replaced it without question, since it could not be read, or saved. We put the entire cache contents in a zip lock and back into the broken butter dish. We notified the owner.

 

Now...as far as replacing MISSING caches...one of ours states in the description, "not under the light post skirt." It was regularly found when someone wrote, "It was where you said it wasn't" Checking on our cache, we found it intact, where we left it. Under the nearby light post, however, was a film canister with a replacement log! These folks couldn't find ours, so the placed there own! You never really know if its missing or you just have to look harder. By the way, these folks were not signed on to the site, and couldn't be reached. Odd.

 

Odd. That's usually done by the Big Numbers, searched-for-twelve-seconds-DNF-so-it-must-be-missing-I-replaced-it-with-a-film-cannister-tossed-over-my-shoulder-logging-a-find crowd.

Yes. A very good reason not to replace a 'missing' cache. You don't know that it is actually missing.

In my opinion (take it for what it's worth), replacing a cache, logged as 'cracked and leaking', with the same type of container is generally appreciated by most cache owners. And that's as far as I'd go.

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I logged a maintenance note on a cache a few weeks ago, and actually heard from the owner asking if I wanted to adopt the cache since they no longer lived in the area. I said I would be happy to adopt it, and told them to go ahead with the process, but so far I haven't heard back from the owner. I've even e-mailed them to inquire as to whether they still want me to adopt the cache.

 

Since then more people have found the cache and it is still in bad condition. I want to go back and fix it but It really doesn't belong to me so I guess I'll wait and see.

 

It's too bad too, because it's in a great spot along a very nice hiking trail and only needs a new container and logbook. ;)

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We always carry spare notebooks for logs, and a supply of gallon size Ziplocs. When in snow country, be prepared. Many times, we have enclosed all but the totally destroyed swag in a Ziploc and put is back in the original container that had been damaged. It's common courtesy in these parts

 

It seems that most of the caching teams (husband/wife, etc.) here do the same thing. The individuals seem to be more likely to just log that the cache is wet, moldy, destroyed, and leave it at that.

 

I appreciate it when someone temporarily repairs one of our hides and lets us know. It gives us a day or two to plan a maintenance trip.

 

Just remember when replacing a log book to leave the old log book in the cache. A lot of owners like to collect and hold on to the old log books.

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Minor repairs, yes. Replace a container, NO!!!

 

I know of multiple instances where someone thought they were replacing a missing/damaged container. In one case, they couldn't find it, and were convinced it was gone. In another, they misidentified some random trash as the remnants of a cache container. After "helping", there were now two caches at each location, causing considerable confusion.

 

Basically, don't put out a cache that you're not responsible for.

 

I came across a situation where a cache owner put out a series of Traditional caches. Each cache had the name of a gem written in permanent marker on the lid. On the page of a Mystery cache was each gem and their value. When you put the caches in the proper order with their gem value you got the coordinates for the Mystery cache. The Traditional caches didn't mention the Mystery cache and multiple hiders were used for the caches which made the Mystery cache somewhat difficult. Some well meaning cache replaced one of the Traditional caches container but neglected to transfer the gem name to the lid of the new container. He most likely didn't know why it was written on the lid. It caused significantly less finds on the Mystery cache until the owner of the cache that had it's container replaced by someone else did a maintenance run on his caches and discovered what had happened.

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