Which GPS do you recommend?

[imhuntn]

I have been waiting for a hand-held GPS unit to come out that utilizes good quality 1:24K topo maps as a background. My primary use will be for hunting and hiking (logging cross country hikes, locations of springs, wallows, rubs, and using the topology to guide me to various topographic features like mid slope benches; something I don't even know is feasible given the small field of view with GPS screen sizes and scale). If the unit has the ability to direct you to an address in an urban area (referred to as auto-routing?), that'd be a nice bonus. I have always used USGS 1:24K 7.5 minute paper quads to field navigate during cross country hikes using the topology as a guide. I work with the Forest Service and we recently updated all 130something quads on the Forest I work. One of the biggest benefits of the new quads is the updated roads coverage. A member of our team spent the better portion of the 1990's using a Trimble GPS unit (supposedly sub meter accuracy after correction) to field locate ALL (we probably missed a few) the roads on the Forest. When we overlaid the new coverage over the old, the changes were overwhelming.

 

I heard Magellan was coming out with a unit (Triton) that would utilize USGS 1:24K Single Edition Quadrangle (SEQ) maps via NG Topo!. I was able to view the NG Topo! maps and sure enough, they are the very same map as the paper copy we sell to the public. I have also read of the various problems with the Triton and their user support. I was hoping Garmin (best when considering both product and customer support - from what I've read) would come out with a unit that would compete with the Triton, but when I contacted Garmin, they indicated they had no plans. I have read a bit about the new Colorado, but I can't seem to verify if they use 1:24K maps. Even if the Colorado does, will it be the 1999 version of the USGS we updated? I also looked into the Bushnell Onix and the DeLorme PN-20. The maps available via the Onix were not all that (resolution quality and vintage), although their 1:100K map showed land status (BLM, State, Forest, National Park, private) which I wish other map sources included, especially the USGS SEQ. The PN-20 was better, especially with the sat and aerial availability, but a call placed to them indicates the 1:24K $50 State CD's are no longer available (and they were also an earlier vintage that did not capture all the updates made to the 1999 version). DeLorme's customer support seems to be superior to all others, but the PN-20 appears to still have some issues (even if they did use the new 1999 maps).

 

One of the reasons the 1999 base is so important to me is, as a hunter, knowing the locations of all the roads can help during game retrieval. With the Forest service fixing to implement a new OHV policy and eliminate off road travel (with a few exceptions like dispersed camping within a fixed distance of select roads), BIG game retrieval (one of the main reasons I invested in a ATV) is going to be more of a challenge.

 

Having never used a hand-held GPS, I'm looking to the experienced users for some guidance. Sorry for the wordy thread. Thanks in advance!

[+Team CowboyPapa]

I've been a long time back country, 4WD exploring and sightseeing hobbyist. Previously, I had never used a GPSR until I purchased the DeLorme PN-20 when it first became available a year ago. Having no experience with the others, I can't offer information of a comparative nature and I won't participate in My Chevy is better than Your Ford type arguments.

 

I was fortunate to buy DeLorme's USGS on DVDs for Southern California and Arizona at $50 each when they were offered at such. I've been very satisfied with them and was not aware that the offer was terminated. I suggest that you call them to verify the current pricing. IIRC, the sales price was not displayed until you "clicked" them into the shopping cart.

 

I think that you have captured the features and capabilites of the PN-20 quite well and have nothing much to add other that I have no regrets in having purchased it. It does seem to be the consensus that DeLorme does have the edge regarding topo maps and other mapping for back country use. Additionally, it can be used for highway and city street travel and its firmware has recently been revised to make street and road routing far more tractable.

[+benjamin921]

On top of what Papa said, check into the XMap 5.2 Pro (call and ask about it. It is a $99 upgrade for PN-20 owners, WELL worth it). If you can get your newer mapping into a .sid, .tiff (with projections) or .jpeg etc, you can import that into XMap and then onto your PN-20. Here is a screen shot of some bike trails overlayed on 2005 aerial data for where I live (from here).

 

 

And with some of the older quads

 

 

The PN-20 is the perfect GPSr for off the road activities (IMO) and does a pretty decent job of auto routing. With the 1.4 firmware update, the routing and caching capabilities are going to be even better. Of course if you are going to use it for mainly roads, get a Garmin but it doesn't sound like those are your intentions (I sound like a father, What are your intentions with my GPSr ).

Edited January 26, 2008 by benjamin921

[+embra]

Looks like you get to hear from the Delorme advocates first.

 

With your priority on maps, it sounds like the PN-20 is your best bet now. It does sound like the NG Topo may be the best dataset for your particular goals, but IMO getting the bugs shaken out of the hardware is a gamble.

 

But there are other compelling reasons to go with Delorme. As Benjamin noted, you can scan in virtually any maps and use them with the XMap upgrade. While the $50 deal for general public on the TopoQuads is past, I think that Delorme is still honoring that pricing for PN-20 owners (you would want to verify that with the order desk). The Topo7 software maps are highly editable; you can add roads or trails by drawing them in or transferring tracks you've recorded from the GPS. These can be embedded as autoroutable parts of detail maps you cut to the GPS.

 

As Benjamin implied, autorouting can be done on the PN-20, but that is not its strongest feature. The Garmins do this better, and at the current time Tritons can't autoroute (I expect that to change sooner or later). If you can calculate your route on the PC in Topo7 and transfer the route to the PN-20, it's fine. But it's slow in route calculation and finding addresses compared to other models. I try to steer people doing a lot of autorouting towards Garmin.

 

Another random-ish thoughts salient to your questions: the Colorado has 3D display and *does* have some 1:24000 maps available, but they are limited to the national parks. 1:100000 for the rest of the country.

 

You are looking at the newest models for all the companies you mentioned. The PN-20 has been out a year, so it's had the most opportunity to iron out the kinks. I'm pretty confident that Garmin will get the Colorado to perform as intended (albeit with compromises for you in the maps); I'm less confident in Magellan given their track record for the past few years--they need to show something in terms of customer support that I haven't seen since I bought my Explorist several years ago. Whatever you buy, try to make sure that you have the option of returning it if doesn't work out for you--Delorme will give you 30 days if you purchase from them. REI isn't the cheapest place around, but their return policies are rather generous.

 

What's a mid-slope bench? I have to confess I've not heard the term before.

 

Sounds like you're someone who does his homework, and you'll very likely be able to weigh the pros and cons to make an informed decision. I expect someone will be by to make the best case they can for your other candidates.

[+elmuyloco5]

I can tell you from first hand experience with the Triton, right now it's a mess. The units are being pulled again from many store shelves until they can get them fixed. If you are truly interested in a Triton, you'll need to be patient and wait out some of the firmware issues they are having. The two we tried out were virtually unusable. That's not to say that the Tritons won't be a good option for the future, you'll just have to wait a bit.

 

I have tried out the NG Topo software and can tell you that it doesn't even come close to the capabilities that the Delorme software has. We ended up switching to the PN-20 by Delorme after the Magellan mess and researching into the Colorado (several limitations on this unit that made it a poor choice for our needs).

 

I can't say enough about the PN-20. It's an incredible unit and the software is unbelievable! I would suggest checking out the Delorme forums for more detailed information, and call Delorme with any questions you might have. Their customer service is unmatched in this market, IMHO. I think, for your needs and wants, the Delorme might be just what you're looking for.

[+Team CowboyPapa]

 

Another random-ish thoughts salient to your questions: the Colorado has 3D display and *does* have some 1:24000 maps available, but they are limited to the national parks. 1:100000 for the rest of the country.

 

As a hunter, I don't expect that the 1:24000 maps available for the national parks will be useful to him.

[+Manwithbeers]

I think you want the Lowrance iFinder Hunt C. With MapCreate 7 you will get very good map detail on a large, high resolution screen. The Hunting Waypoint markers will be useful to you too. I use a Lowrance H2O C and I'm very happy with the detail of smaller roads, creeks, lakes and trails in the maps. It least check it out before you buy. If you don't like the idea of building your own maps on a computer to put into the handheld the Lowrance Freedom EX maps are also very detailed. That is what I'm using myself. Good luck.

[+Noscitare]

I just recently bought my first ever GPSr. I was debating between the PN-20 and holding out for the soon-to-be-released (at the time) Colorado. I asked a question much like yours, got numerous helpful responses and in the end went with the PN-20. I've been able to get it outdoors only a few times but I believe that I made the right choice. I do believe that embra, benjamin921 and CowboyPapa are all giving you (as they gave me) some good, honest, objective descriptions of the PN-20. I've just barely begun to scratch the surface of what all I can do with it but I do believe that it will do all that I need of a GPSr....and probably more.

[Big Yac]

On top of what Papa said, check into the XMap 5.2 Pro (call and ask about it. It is a $99 upgrade for PN-20 owners, WELL worth it). If you can get your newer mapping into a .sid, .tiff (with projections) or .jpeg etc, you can import that into XMap and then onto your PN-20. Here is a screen shot of some bike trails overlayed on 2005 aerial data for where I live (from here).

 

 

And with some of the older quads

 

 

The PN-20 is the perfect GPSr for off the road activities (IMO) and does a pretty decent job of auto routing. With the 1.4 firmware update, the routing and caching capabilities are going to be even better. Of course if you are going to use it for mainly roads, get a Garmin but it doesn't sound like those are your intentions (I sound like a father, What are your intentions with my GPSr ).

 

I have 1' and 6" resolution aerials in Mr. Sid format...does that mean with this XMap 5.2 Pro I could load them on my PN-20?

[+Team DeLorme]

I have 1' and 6" resolution aerials in Mr. Sid format...does that mean with this XMap 5.2 Pro I could load them on my PN-20?

The $99 upgrade to XMap will give you the ability to load MrSIDD and GeoTIFF imagery into your desktop mapping application for planning and then move it to your PN-20 for use in the field.

 

Keep in mind that XMap also comes with two-point image registration so you'd be able to load any digital image and move that to your PN-20 as well. I've seen several examples of people scanning paper trail maps for local parks and then using them to hike with their PN-20s. Very exciting stuff!

 

Regarding the sale on DeLorme 3DTQ (USGS Quads by state) datasets, I thought that was still going on... drop me an e-mail and I'll track down an answer on Monday.

 

Let me know if you have any other questions...

 

Chip Noble

Team DeLorme

[imhuntn]

Thanks to all those taking time to reply, I appreciate the help!

 

I was really rooting for a better debut for the Triton. The idea of having a handheld GPSr that utilizes the latest USGS quadrangle maps was exactly what I had been waiting for. When the reviews started coming in and they were all saying the same thing, I was extremely disappointed. So I turned my attention back to the PN-20. I was actually very close to purchasing the PN-20 right after Christmas, but when I was told the state topo CD maps were no longer available, I opted out. About that time the news started coming out about the new Garmin Colorado and that it might be Garmins answer to the PN-20 and the Triton. I still haven't been able to confirm if that's the case. Does anyone know if the Garmin Colorado will (or has plans to) support NG Topo! maps or any other national 1:24K topo dataset?

 

I was reading a post on R Owings GPStracklg site that NG Topo! is looking to come out with a web-based application that will include aerial photos and hybrid imagery (aerial and topography). Rich indicates that Triton users may soon be able to view aerial photos on their new handheld. If Magellan can get the Triton bugs worked out and offer hassle free interfacing with the NG Topo! applications and/or VantagePoint, they'll have something worth serious consideration. I also read something about Magellan looking to address customers concerns related to customer service (time will tell).

 

I (and possibly others) have waited all this time for a GPSr that'll replace my (our) 7.5 miute USGS maps and it looks like I (we) might be waiting a bit longer. These gadgets aren't cheap and I don't want to purchase one just for the sake of having one; I'd just as soon wait until "they" come out with something that I'll be happy with.

 

embra - a "bench" is basically a piece of ground (generally in rough country) that is considerably flatter than it's surrounding steeper topography; a "mid-slope bench" is a bench found midway between the crest of a slope/ridge and the bottom/drainage

[anethema]

Just read up a bit more on here before deciding on the triton for what may come in the future. Right now most people are having trouble downloading anything to their triton, much less NG Topos. It is currently basically an unusable device which many retailers have pulled off the shelves all together.

 

The PN-20 for example with the $99 upgrade to Xmap can use any map you can scan into it, including USGS quads or any paper topos. It has a couple faults but NOTHING like the triton. If you really want a triton, wait at least a year for them to iron out the bugs and make the device usable.

 

I created my own topos from scratch using a GIS program (dont have xmap yet..monday!)

 

Take a look here: http://forum.delorme.com/viewtopic.php?t=13215 . Using mostly free data you can make pretty much any map you want.

 

Thanks to all those taking time to reply, I appreciate the help!

 

I was really rooting for a better debut for the Triton. The idea of having a handheld GPSr that utilizes the latest USGS quadrangle maps was exactly what I had been waiting for. When the reviews started coming in and they were all saying the same thing, I was extremely disappointed. So I turned my attention back to the PN-20. I was actually very close to purchasing the PN-20 right after Christmas, but when I was told the state topo CD maps were no longer available, I opted out. About that time the news started coming out about the new Garmin Colorado and that it might be Garmins answer to the PN-20 and the Triton. I still haven't been able to confirm if that's the case. Does anyone know if the Garmin Colorado will (or has plans to) support NG Topo! maps or any other national 1:24K topo dataset?

 

I was reading a post on R Owings GPStracklg site that NG Topo! is looking to come out with a web-based application that will include aerial photos and hybrid imagery (aerial and topography). Rich indicates that Triton users may soon be able to view aerial photos on their new handheld. If Magellan can get the Triton bugs worked out and offer hassle free interfacing with the NG Topo! applications and/or VantagePoint, they'll have something worth serious consideration. I also read something about Magellan looking to address customers concerns related to customer service (time will tell).

 

I (and possibly others) have waited all this time for a GPSr that'll replace my (our) 7.5 miute USGS maps and it looks like I (we) might be waiting a bit longer. These gadgets aren't cheap and I don't want to purchase one just for the sake of having one; I'd just as soon wait until "they" come out with something that I'll be happy with.

 

embra - a "bench" is basically a piece of ground (generally in rough country) that is considerably flatter than it's surrounding steeper topography; a "mid-slope bench" is a bench found midway between the crest of a slope/ridge and the bottom/drainage

[+embra]

These gadgets aren't cheap and I don't want to purchase one just for the sake of having one; I'd just as soon wait until "they" come out with something that I'll be happy with.

If you've got the luxury of being able to wait yet, then that's of course the safest thing to do. The GPS market is a fluid one, and it's still young enough that each year seems to bring improvements. There's no denying that making a purchase is a gamble about what you think is going to happen just around the bend time-wise.

 

FWIW, I have found that I can hedge my bets a bit by bearing in mind that once I buy something, I'm not binding myself to it until one of us dies. They are expensive things, but if I ever decide that I want something newer or whatever, that I can sell it in the used market for much what I invested in it. This worked well for my first GPS, a used Garmin Vista. I used it for about 4 months, in which time I got a feel for the features that were and were not important to me. I bought the best GPS for my needs that was available at the time, and sold the Vista for $25 less than I paid for it. I considered it a very worthwhile rental fee.

 

So happy hunting! I'm sure your best course of action will emerge sooner or later. (That imagery NG is promising does look very interesting.)

 

...and thanks for the bench definition!

[Andolin]

I returned my Triton 2000 for the Colorado 400t, and I'm very pleased I did.

The Triton was a nice unit, but Magellan still has so many bugs to resolve before the unit is ready for market. I can confirm that REI has pulled them completely citing a recall direct from Magellan.

The NG Topo capability is great in theory, but in reality the screen was difficult to read and blurry at anything outside of the 300' perspective.

 

The Onix 400 from Bushnell allows downloads of topographic and sat/aerial shots directly from their site, but they are seriously lacking in the support department. The only plus for that unit right now is the XM weather and radio service....and yes, the weather service does work despite what many forums have stated.

 

I have heard great things about the Delorme, but the screen size was a little disappointing to me.

 

I am very pleased with the Colorado 400t which comes preloaded with Topo 2008, but that might not have the detail you're seeking.

[tanzu2007]

I returned my Triton 2000 for the Colorado 400t, and I'm very pleased I did.

The Triton was a nice unit, but Magellan still has so many bugs to resolve before the unit is ready for market. I can confirm that REI has pulled them completely citing a recall direct from Magellan.

The NG Topo capability is great in theory, but in reality the screen was difficult to read and blurry at anything outside of the 300' perspective.

 

The Onix 400 from Bushnell allows downloads of topographic and sat/aerial shots directly from their site, but they are seriously lacking in the support department. The only plus for that unit right now is the XM weather and radio service....and yes, the weather service does work despite what many forums have stated.

 

I have heard great things about the Delorme, but the screen size was a little disappointing to me.

 

I am very pleased with the Colorado 400t which comes preloaded with Topo 2008, but that might not have the detail you're seeking.

[tanzu2007]

I returned my Triton 2000 for the Colorado 400t, and I'm very pleased I did.

The Triton was a nice unit, but Magellan still has so many bugs to resolve before the unit is ready for market. I can confirm that REI has pulled them completely citing a recall direct from Magellan.

The NG Topo capability is great in theory, but in reality the screen was difficult to read and blurry at anything outside of the 300' perspective.

 

The Onix 400 from Bushnell allows downloads of topographic and sat/aerial shots directly from their site, but they are seriously lacking in the support department. The only plus for that unit right now is the XM weather and radio service....and yes, the weather service does work despite what many forums have stated.

 

I have heard great things about the Delorme, but the screen size was a little disappointing to me.

 

I am very pleased with the Colorado 400t which comes preloaded with Topo 2008, but that might not have the detail you're seeking.

i can,t tell you which gps to get but i can tell which one not too.

 

never get any thing by bushnell it not worth it . you have load every thng from computer. i can,t even get free maps they would give me