Getting permission

January 23, 2008

I'm just curious how others have gone about getting permission for placing a cache. How much detail about geocaching do you get into with the land owner? I'm guessing that if you go to the manager of a department store and ask if you can hide a film canister under their lampskirt you'll get a "What?" response and maybe even get smacked.

So how do you open the dialogue with property owners, whether it be a commercial area or a private owned hillside or a park manager or whatever?

18.9k · January 23, 2008

I bring along this brochure: http://www.gpsmaze.com/uploads/files/GEOCACH_F2.pdf

A few materials from Geocacher-U. A few local Cache listing pages and my GPS. Just ask - tell them why - be prepared to explain the impact. Most of all - be prepared to hear "NO". Some private land owners are intigued, some hate the idea.

I have never approached a commercial business.

January 23, 2008

I have used email twice. One time it worked, the other time it didn't. The first was asking my city about guidlines and the second was at the HHH metrodome. Unless you have some connection to a business, you probably wouldn't get permission, but it never hurts to try. Others may have something to say about this, but it seems the most likely way to get permission is to have some kind of connection with the property owner.

20.7k · January 23, 2008

Be prepared to explain why placing the cache would be good for the land manager.

January 23, 2008

So what angle do you take to show the land manager that a cache would be a good idea? Or is it more of why it's not a bad idea? I agree that having some connection to the land owner would make it much easier.

I don't really have a specific situation, just wondering how others have handled getting permission for placement.

6.7k · January 24, 2008

Examples of ways to get permission from my personal experiences:

There is a ball field near my home in Irondale, Al. where my kids played Little League baseball. It has an interesting rock bluff behind it rising some 120' or so that shows multiple layers of the earth's strata. While there watching practice I saw the Groundskeeper and told him about geocaching, and asked if I could hide one there. He said his only concern was the 24/7 access of hunters coming to the park (the park is unfenced overall, just fences around each ball field, and has no gate), but that if the police didn't care he was fine with it. I went to see our Chief of Police, explained the game, showed him geocaching.com on his computer and showed him the stocked ammo-can-style cache (I use plastic Dry Boxes from Academy Sports). He said he had no issues with it and posted a note to his officers to the effect that the cache was there and if suspected night-time prowlers were encountered 'we're geocaching' was an acceptable reason to be there. It (Irondale Park Cache) stayed in place for years, was visited often and nary a problem until it was stolen.

A local restaurant has a big billboard at the edge of their parking lot. I ate lunch there and while dining asked for the Manager. I explained the game, showed him a magnetic key holder with a logbook, and asked his permission to put it on one of the steel I-beam legs of the billboard. He said no problem. I put it about 12' up one of the legs and hid a bamboo pole along the fence line to slide the cache up and down with. Golden Rule Cache has been there perhaps three years now, is very often found, and the only problem has been a couple of cachers who unscrewed the light sensor that turns the billboard on at night... most screw it right back in place, once the manager had to go out and do it, he said "no problem".

I was leaving the woods after finding a cache at a historical home that has a nature path behind it when I encountered a fellow looking at the house. I am a somewhat outgoing fellow, so I stopped to chat. Turns out he is the President of our county historical preservation society and he was there to see what kind of repairs the building's roof might need. I told him how much I appreciated the society's efforts to make these places available to the public, and that I appreciated the nature trail and them allowing a cache along it. He says "What's a geocache?". Oops. I explained our game, we walked back into the woods and I showed him the cache. I explained that geocaches on private land generally require land-owner permission and apologized that the hider had not sought permission before placing the cache. I asked for permission to leave the cache in place and he said it was fine. I gave him my contact info and asked him to call me if there was an issue with it and the owner did not respond quickly. A week later I get an email saying he likes the game, that one of his responsibilities is to drive tourism up at the historical sites they maintain, and asking if my group (the Alabama Geocachers Association) would like to place a cache at all 23 sites that they maintain! There is now a cache at about half of them.

I was caching after an event in Pennsylvania, looking for one on a downspout beside a Toys-R-Us store about 11 p.m. when two police cars roll up. There was a night crew working in the store, an employee leaving had seen us and called the manager, who called the cops. The cops told him "Don't worry, we have two cars across the street watching them!". The officers had followed us unseen from the last cache we had done. So here I am from Alabama parked and fooling around near the loading dock of a Pennsylvania toy store late at night. I explained the game, luckily I had just found the cache and had it in hand when they rolled up, and showed it to them. They ran my license plate and drivers license and things got much friendlier when I came up clean. The store manager came out to see what I was up to, I explained the game, showed him the cache (a key holder) and showed him where it had been hidden behind the drainpipe. I had my laptop, GPS and PDA loaded with local caches and showed that to the cops and the manager. I explained that normally caches in such locations should have permission, apologized that this one didn't, and asked for permission to leave it there. He said that was fine, he'd tell his employees it was there and not to worry about folks looking around that pipe. I explained to the cops that we were in town for a geocaching event and that there would be maybe 10 carloads of us running around town geocaching all weekend. He called his LT who put out the word to the rest of the force and no one was stopped the rest of the weekend!

One more - driving down a country road I came to a store that looked interesting and old, so I stopped, went in and struck up a conversation with the owner, who delighted in showing me around his pre-Civil War store that really hadn't changed much since then. I explained our game, asked for permission to place a cache there because I felt his place was interesting and wanted to tell folks about it. He said yes, I had a film can in my cache bag, he helped me find a hole in a rock wall beside the store, and The South Shall Rise Again is still there 2 years later!

That's just a few of many successful permission requests.

It's all in ASKING. They won't shoot you, but they might say no; if they do, move on, there are plenty of places!

One suggestion - most employees have the power to say no. They can say no for any reason or none. Saying no is easy, requires no permission from higher up, and no one ever got fired for saying no to some hare-brained scheme.

So, your job is to find the one person who can say yes. Don't ask the waitress, ask the manager, or better yet the owner if he's available.

Some situations should be obvious... the manager of your local Wal-Mart can't give you blanket permission to hide one at all Wal-Marts, but he can give you permission to hide one at his. I have gotten permission to hide a cache inside the quarter-operated rocking horse outside the doors of a Wal-Mart, and under a bench at another one. If you approach Wal-Mart Corporate, however, you will encounter layers of middle-management who can only say no.

You have to be able to see what is realistic and what is not - then approach the person who can realistically say yes.

4.5k · January 24, 2008

Most people that i've asked permission knew a little about geocaching so i didn't really have to explain. We've only placed one on commercial property, Gander Mountain, and the manager of that store didn't know much about caching until i went over a few things with him. I kept it very basic, telling him about the GC.com site, how quite a few people were involved, that we use GPSrs (which they sell) to find stuff that others had hidden, etc,,. He liked the idea and gave the permission pretty quickly after that.

On a side note,,, even though i wasn't planning on making it an LPC in the first place, i did tell him about those and he let me know right quick that he didn't think that was a good idea!

January 24, 2008

Be brave and just ask!

January 24, 2008

Like Alabama, our local historical society is pleased as punch about my geocaches on their historical property (GCP6W4) & (GCP6TT). All the police in the area know about them.

Jimmy (GCN8FF) doesn't mind, he made the place for folks to come and look at. Sometimes if he's out, he'll tell them where it is.

Hubbard Police know about our five caches in Hubbard. Only had to archive one which was specifically set for truckers to up their numbers but Waffle House (GC104XB) got a new uptight manager.

February 6, 2008

E-mail the people who own the property or if owned by town contact village hall or local wildlife foundation.

February 6, 2008

I contacted the manager of local shopping mall to ask permission to set up a night hunt where cachers would follow reflective markings on light posts to lead them to the final cache site.

I thought that I might get some resistence to the idea of putting small reflective tape tabs on the light posts or stashing a small final cache container somewhere on the premises (bushes most likely), but was surprised to hear that the only concern they had was with liability. They explained that with “Walking Clubs” that walk inside the mall in the mornings they require each member to sign a letter of indemnity, and that they’d like any Geocachers to do this too. They explained that they “have metal plates that cover water valves etc in the parking lot and that at times the plates pop off when the snow plows are cleaning the lot and that it is possible that someone in the lot late at night may stumble on something etc…”

Thus far I have explained why expecting cachers to sign and carry a letter of indemnity won’t work, and they are reviewing a proposal to include a paragraph in the Geocache posting that identifies the concern and that by participating in this hunt the participants accept all liabilities.

The mall manager has been top-shelf on this matter and seems to really want to make this happen. It is taking some time but I remain hopeful of a positive outcome. Certainly this has caused a delay to my plans to get this cache up and going, but I’m happy I consulted with the mall people. I’d rather be dealing with them now rather than latter should there be a problem or they take offence to the cache.

3.8k · February 6, 2008

I just amble up, find the owner, and ask. I explain what Geocaching is, and show him/her where I'm thinking of putting it.

Usually takes me 10-15 minutes, and I've never been refused.

5.7k · February 6, 2008

"your job is to find the one person who can say yes" Wrong. Your job is to find the RIGHT person. And that person isn't the groundskeeper, popcorn vendor, waitress, busboy, hiway side of the road trash picker upper, the first person that you see who looks friendly, someone who is wearing a shirt with his name on a patch.

No, the RIGHT person would be someone who carries some weight of authority in the particular setting. If you can't figure that out, then you can't possibly get "adaquate" permission. You know, something like 'mall manager, store manager/owner, park superintendent,director, director of parks and recreation, you know stuff like that. AKA Common Sense.

For public parks, this geocaching group has some good advice and examples. And I can pretty well tell you that no groundskeeper or other such person is making the decisions and judgements required. No way.

"GENERAL GUIDANCE FOR GEOCACHE SITES WITHIN

NEW YORK STATE PARKS

The following guidelines are designed to assist geocachers in locating a cache site on land managed by the Office of Parks, Recreation and Historic Preservation. This information was provided by the Office of Parks, Recreation and Historic Preservation.

The mission of the New York State Office of Parks, Recreation and Historic Preservation is to provide safe and enjoyable recreational and interpretive opportunities for all New York State residents and visitors, and to be responsible stewards of our natural, historic and cultural resources. Geocaching is a recognized recreational activity and in order to ensure the safety of geocachers while protecting our environmental resources, the agency has established a permit system for this activity.

The geocaching permit was developed through input from the geocachers and State Park Regional Offices across the State. It is designed to be proactive in addressing the needs of the geocachers while protecting the integrity of the State Park system.

Any visitor wishing to place a cache must complete an application for a geocache placement permit, which requires review and authorization by the park manager or designee. The permit process provides the necessary level of review to ensure the protection of natural, historic and archeological resources, and the safety and security of park visitors.

Guidelines have been provided to park managers for implementing this permit system. These guidelines provide information regarding the identification of sensitive resources to be protected; the maximum number of permits allowed in a facility; guidance for placement restrictions on cache contents and maintenance; safety measures; and authority for removal of cache and notification of owner if necessary.

We at Parks hope we have adequately responded to the needs of this new recreational activity and are always looking for ways to enhance the visitor experience.

Before placing a cache on any land by the Office of Parks, Recreation and Historic Preservation, the Facility Manager should be contacted. The Manager can provide guidance on areas within parks where cache sites area allowed.

General Guidelines

* The Facility Manager must approve the location of any permitted cache.

* The term of a permit has been limited to two years in an effort reduce any potential environmental impact at a cache site.

* The permit only gives the user the right to locate a cache within a park.

* All Park Rules and Regulations will still apply.

* Cache access should be restricted to normal operating hours and seasons.

* The caches should not be located more than 20 feet from a trail unless otherwise approved by the Facility Manager. (i.e. Longer distances may be considered for field areas.)

Terms from the Actual Permit:

* Any person wishing to place a cache must fill out this application.

* Any visitor wishing to place a cache must complete an application for placement and maintenance of the geocache site. Such permit application requires review and authorization of the facility manager or designee. Once approved, this application will serve as the permit and the cache owner will be issued a label to be placed on the cache container.

* The original permit will be kept on file, and a copy given to the owner.

* If the permit is denied, justification will be recorded on the permit. The facility manager has discretion in denying permits.

Permit Conditions:

* A cache owner is limited to a maximum of five (5) permits in one facility at one time.

* Multi-caches leave clues to find the next site, eventually leading to a cache. Multi-caches will be limited to a total of five (5) sites, but require only one permit. However, since the potential use or impacts of each site is the same, no more than five (5) sites per cache owner will be permitted in one facility at one time. For instance, if a multi-cache consists of 5 sites, the cache owner will only be allowed one permit at a time.

* Caches will not be permitted within 1320 feet (1/4 mile) of an existing permitted cache.

* All permits will be valid for two (2) years. Exact starting and ending dates will be recorded on the permit.

* If, during the effective period of a permit, the holder wishes to change the location of the cache, a new permit must be issued and the effective permit cancelled.

* Upon permit expiration, the owner is responsible for removing the cache and removing its location from the website or other information source as an active cache.

* Once the cache is placed, a description of the cache and its location indicated on a park map, as well as the GPS coordinates, must be given to the facility manager or designee for completion of the permit.

* Owner must monitor the cache twice a year to maintain family-friendly contents.

* Caches are subject to removal by the facility manager or designee if:

o Facility staff determines that the location of the cache poses a risk to visitors. A new permit may be generated for the relocation of such a cache.

o Facility staff determines that the cache has been the cause of an adverse environmental impact. The permit for such a cache will be cancelled.

o Facility staff discovers a non-permitted cache, or a cache that does not exhibit a permit number on the outside of the container.

* If the facility manager or designee removes a cache, he or she will attempt to notify the owner or indicate on the website that the cache has been removed. The cache will be retained at the park office for 30 days. If the owner cannot be contacted after that time, the cache is considered abandoned property and may be retained in the event the owner comes to claim it at a later date. Justification for removal of a cache will be recorded on the permit.

Cache Placement

* The facility manager or designee will inform the applicant of areas recognized as off limits to geocache placement.

* The cache should be accessible from existing trails (no more than twenty (20) ft. from trail unless otherwise approved).

* Caches are not to be placed on or in:

o locations that would lead to or create spur trails

o sensitive archaeological, historical, or ecological areas, e. g. wetlands, caves, historical buildings, locations containing rare plant or animal species, stream banks, and dam structures.

o prescribed burn areas scheduled to be burned within 12 months of the permit request.

o areas that could potentially cause danger to visitors trying to locate the cache, such as, elevated in trees, underwater or in potential flood areas, places requiring climbing cliffs or bluffs.

o any State Park or State Historic Site structure.

* Burying caches is strictly prohibited.

Life of a Cache

* A cache may be located at a site for a maximum of 2 years.

* After 2 years, the owner will be responsible for retiring or relocating the cache.

Cache Container

* Cache containers must display an official, park issued geocache label on the outside of the container with the permit number and expiration date.

* Cache must not contain food, alcohol, drugs, medications, dangerous items, adult items, or weapons of any kind.

* Container should be watertight and non-breakable, and have a latch or closing mechanism to prevent exposure to wildlife.

* The container should not be larger than 1,000 cu. in. unless authorized by the facility manager.

Participation

* Participants must follow established trails (no bushwhacking to reach a cache).

* Participants must leave the caches where they found them.

* Participants must not use metal detectors in cache searches.

All caches are subject to random inspection by the facility managers or their designees, who have the authority to remove any item deemed unacceptable"

Edited February 6, 2008 by Team Cotati

24.7k · February 6, 2008

I placed a cache in side a vistors centor. That seemed like a good spot to ask. So I called up and ask who runs the center. Then I talked to her. She was skeptical especially since I the answers I was giving her about caches in general were not lining up with her concerns. So I made a lunch date and took her caching. Permission soon followed.

Another cache I have is inside the Zoo. I had met the director on a project of mine so I just asked. He liked the idea. No problem. He had his maintance guys install the cache for me. When I need to check on the cache I just call and he has someone meet me at the gate.

When I asked for the local greenway foundation I was wet behind the ears on the whole issue. I ended up before the board of directors and they asked a buch of questins figured out what caching was and looked at me like they could not figure out why I was there asking for something so trivial. They then asked if I needed them to pass a resolution or something. I said no, since you don't mind it's all good.

24.7k · February 6, 2008

So what angle do you take to show the land manager that a cache would be a good idea?...

It depends on the person. You sell them on caching being fun, or that caching brings exposure to things they want people to be interested in or both. What exactly those are varies by the person and organization. You build from common ground.

20.7k · February 6, 2008

"your job is to find the one person who can say yes" Wrong. Your job is to find the RIGHT person. And that person isn't the groundskeeper, popcorn vendor, waitress, busboy, hiway side of the road trash picker upper, the first person that you see who looks friendly, someone who is wearing a shirt with his name on a patch.

No, the RIGHT person would be someone who carries some weight of authority in the particular setting. If you can't figure that out, then you can't possibly get "adaquate" permission. You know, something like 'mall manager, store manager/owner, park superintendent,director, director of parks and recreation, you know stuff like that. AKA Common Sense.

For public parks, this geocaching group has some good advice and examples. And I can pretty well tell you that no groundskeeper or other such person is making the decisions and judgements required. No way.

"GENERAL GUIDANCE FOR GEOCACHE SITES WITHIN

NEW YORK STATE PARKS

The following guidelines are designed to assist geocachers in locating a cache site on land managed by the Office of Parks, Recreation and Historic Preservation. This information was provided by the Office of Parks, Recreation and Historic Preservation.

The mission of the New York State Office of Parks, Recreation and Historic Preservation is to provide safe and enjoyable recreational and interpretive opportunities for all New York State residents and visitors, and to be responsible stewards of our natural, historic and cultural resources. Geocaching is a recognized recreational activity and in order to ensure the safety of geocachers while protecting our environmental resources, the agency has established a permit system for this activity.

The geocaching permit was developed through input from the geocachers and State Park Regional Offices across the State. It is designed to be proactive in addressing the needs of the geocachers while protecting the integrity of the State Park system.

Any visitor wishing to place a cache must complete an application for a geocache placement permit, which requires review and authorization by the park manager or designee. The permit process provides the necessary level of review to ensure the protection of natural, historic and archeological resources, and the safety and security of park visitors.

Guidelines have been provided to park managers for implementing this permit system. These guidelines provide information regarding the identification of sensitive resources to be protected; the maximum number of permits allowed in a facility; guidance for placement restrictions on cache contents and maintenance; safety measures; and authority for removal of cache and notification of owner if necessary.

We at Parks hope we have adequately responded to the needs of this new recreational activity and are always looking for ways to enhance the visitor experience.

Before placing a cache on any land by the Office of Parks, Recreation and Historic Preservation, the Facility Manager should be contacted. The Manager can provide guidance on areas within parks where cache sites area allowed.

General Guidelines

* The Facility Manager must approve the location of any permitted cache.

* The term of a permit has been limited to two years in an effort reduce any potential environmental impact at a cache site.

* The permit only gives the user the right to locate a cache within a park.

* All Park Rules and Regulations will still apply.

* Cache access should be restricted to normal operating hours and seasons.

* The caches should not be located more than 20 feet from a trail unless otherwise approved by the Facility Manager. (i.e. Longer distances may be considered for field areas.)

Terms from the Actual Permit:

* Any person wishing to place a cache must fill out this application.

* Any visitor wishing to place a cache must complete an application for placement and maintenance of the geocache site. Such permit application requires review and authorization of the facility manager or designee. Once approved, this application will serve as the permit and the cache owner will be issued a label to be placed on the cache container.

* The original permit will be kept on file, and a copy given to the owner.

* If the permit is denied, justification will be recorded on the permit. The facility manager has discretion in denying permits.

Permit Conditions:

* A cache owner is limited to a maximum of five (5) permits in one facility at one time.

* Multi-caches leave clues to find the next site, eventually leading to a cache. Multi-caches will be limited to a total of five (5) sites, but require only one permit. However, since the potential use or impacts of each site is the same, no more than five (5) sites per cache owner will be permitted in one facility at one time. For instance, if a multi-cache consists of 5 sites, the cache owner will only be allowed one permit at a time.

* Caches will not be permitted within 1320 feet (1/4 mile) of an existing permitted cache.

* All permits will be valid for two (2) years. Exact starting and ending dates will be recorded on the permit.

* If, during the effective period of a permit, the holder wishes to change the location of the cache, a new permit must be issued and the effective permit cancelled.

* Upon permit expiration, the owner is responsible for removing the cache and removing its location from the website or other information source as an active cache.

* Once the cache is placed, a description of the cache and its location indicated on a park map, as well as the GPS coordinates, must be given to the facility manager or designee for completion of the permit.

* Owner must monitor the cache twice a year to maintain family-friendly contents.

* Caches are subject to removal by the facility manager or designee if:

o Facility staff determines that the location of the cache poses a risk to visitors. A new permit may be generated for the relocation of such a cache.

o Facility staff determines that the cache has been the cause of an adverse environmental impact. The permit for such a cache will be cancelled.

o Facility staff discovers a non-permitted cache, or a cache that does not exhibit a permit number on the outside of the container.

* If the facility manager or designee removes a cache, he or she will attempt to notify the owner or indicate on the website that the cache has been removed. The cache will be retained at the park office for 30 days. If the owner cannot be contacted after that time, the cache is considered abandoned property and may be retained in the event the owner comes to claim it at a later date. Justification for removal of a cache will be recorded on the permit.

Cache Placement

* The facility manager or designee will inform the applicant of areas recognized as off limits to geocache placement.

* The cache should be accessible from existing trails (no more than twenty (20) ft. from trail unless otherwise approved).

* Caches are not to be placed on or in:

o locations that would lead to or create spur trails

o sensitive archaeological, historical, or ecological areas, e. g. wetlands, caves, historical buildings, locations containing rare plant or animal species, stream banks, and dam structures.

o prescribed burn areas scheduled to be burned within 12 months of the permit request.

o areas that could potentially cause danger to visitors trying to locate the cache, such as, elevated in trees, underwater or in potential flood areas, places requiring climbing cliffs or bluffs.

o any State Park or State Historic Site structure.

* Burying caches is strictly prohibited.

Life of a Cache

* A cache may be located at a site for a maximum of 2 years.

* After 2 years, the owner will be responsible for retiring or relocating the cache.

Cache Container

* Cache containers must display an official, park issued geocache label on the outside of the container with the permit number and expiration date.

* Cache must not contain food, alcohol, drugs, medications, dangerous items, adult items, or weapons of any kind.

* Container should be watertight and non-breakable, and have a latch or closing mechanism to prevent exposure to wildlife.

* The container should not be larger than 1,000 cu. in. unless authorized by the facility manager.

Participation

* Participants must follow established trails (no bushwhacking to reach a cache).

* Participants must leave the caches where they found them.

* Participants must not use metal detectors in cache searches.

All caches are subject to random inspection by the facility managers or their designees, who have the authority to remove any item deemed unacceptable"

I rest my case.

5.7k · February 6, 2008

"your job is to find the one person who can say yes" Wrong. Your job is to find the RIGHT person. And that person isn't the groundskeeper, popcorn vendor, waitress, busboy, hiway side of the road trash picker upper, the first person that you see who looks friendly, someone who is wearing a shirt with his name on a patch.

No, the RIGHT person would be someone who carries some weight of authority in the particular setting. If you can't figure that out, then you can't possibly get "adaquate" permission. You know, something like 'mall manager, store manager/owner, park superintendent,director, director of parks and recreation, you know stuff like that. AKA Common Sense.

For public parks, this geocaching group has some good advice and examples. And I can pretty well tell you that no groundskeeper or other such person is making the decisions and judgements required. No way.

"GENERAL GUIDANCE FOR GEOCACHE SITES WITHIN

NEW YORK STATE PARKS

The following guidelines are designed to assist geocachers in locating a cache site on land managed by the Office of Parks, Recreation and Historic Preservation. This information was provided by the Office of Parks, Recreation and Historic Preservation.

The mission of the New York State Office of Parks, Recreation and Historic Preservation is to provide safe and enjoyable recreational and interpretive opportunities for all New York State residents and visitors, and to be responsible stewards of our natural, historic and cultural resources. Geocaching is a recognized recreational activity and in order to ensure the safety of geocachers while protecting our environmental resources, the agency has established a permit system for this activity.

The geocaching permit was developed through input from the geocachers and State Park Regional Offices across the State. It is designed to be proactive in addressing the needs of the geocachers while protecting the integrity of the State Park system.

Any visitor wishing to place a cache must complete an application for a geocache placement permit, which requires review and authorization by the park manager or designee. The permit process provides the necessary level of review to ensure the protection of natural, historic and archeological resources, and the safety and security of park visitors.

Guidelines have been provided to park managers for implementing this permit system. These guidelines provide information regarding the identification of sensitive resources to be protected; the maximum number of permits allowed in a facility; guidance for placement restrictions on cache contents and maintenance; safety measures; and authority for removal of cache and notification of owner if necessary.

We at Parks hope we have adequately responded to the needs of this new recreational activity and are always looking for ways to enhance the visitor experience.

Before placing a cache on any land by the Office of Parks, Recreation and Historic Preservation, the Facility Manager should be contacted. The Manager can provide guidance on areas within parks where cache sites area allowed.

General Guidelines

* The Facility Manager must approve the location of any permitted cache.

* The term of a permit has been limited to two years in an effort reduce any potential environmental impact at a cache site.

* The permit only gives the user the right to locate a cache within a park.

* All Park Rules and Regulations will still apply.

* Cache access should be restricted to normal operating hours and seasons.

* The caches should not be located more than 20 feet from a trail unless otherwise approved by the Facility Manager. (i.e. Longer distances may be considered for field areas.)

Terms from the Actual Permit:

* Any person wishing to place a cache must fill out this application.

* Any visitor wishing to place a cache must complete an application for placement and maintenance of the geocache site. Such permit application requires review and authorization of the facility manager or designee. Once approved, this application will serve as the permit and the cache owner will be issued a label to be placed on the cache container.

* The original permit will be kept on file, and a copy given to the owner.

* If the permit is denied, justification will be recorded on the permit. The facility manager has discretion in denying permits.

Permit Conditions:

* A cache owner is limited to a maximum of five (5) permits in one facility at one time.

* Multi-caches leave clues to find the next site, eventually leading to a cache. Multi-caches will be limited to a total of five (5) sites, but require only one permit. However, since the potential use or impacts of each site is the same, no more than five (5) sites per cache owner will be permitted in one facility at one time. For instance, if a multi-cache consists of 5 sites, the cache owner will only be allowed one permit at a time.

* Caches will not be permitted within 1320 feet (1/4 mile) of an existing permitted cache.

* All permits will be valid for two (2) years. Exact starting and ending dates will be recorded on the permit.

* If, during the effective period of a permit, the holder wishes to change the location of the cache, a new permit must be issued and the effective permit cancelled.

* Upon permit expiration, the owner is responsible for removing the cache and removing its location from the website or other information source as an active cache.

* Once the cache is placed, a description of the cache and its location indicated on a park map, as well as the GPS coordinates, must be given to the facility manager or designee for completion of the permit.

* Owner must monitor the cache twice a year to maintain family-friendly contents.

* Caches are subject to removal by the facility manager or designee if:

o Facility staff determines that the location of the cache poses a risk to visitors. A new permit may be generated for the relocation of such a cache.

o Facility staff determines that the cache has been the cause of an adverse environmental impact. The permit for such a cache will be cancelled.

o Facility staff discovers a non-permitted cache, or a cache that does not exhibit a permit number on the outside of the container.

* If the facility manager or designee removes a cache, he or she will attempt to notify the owner or indicate on the website that the cache has been removed. The cache will be retained at the park office for 30 days. If the owner cannot be contacted after that time, the cache is considered abandoned property and may be retained in the event the owner comes to claim it at a later date. Justification for removal of a cache will be recorded on the permit.

Cache Placement

* The facility manager or designee will inform the applicant of areas recognized as off limits to geocache placement.

* The cache should be accessible from existing trails (no more than twenty (20) ft. from trail unless otherwise approved).

* Caches are not to be placed on or in:

o locations that would lead to or create spur trails

o sensitive archaeological, historical, or ecological areas, e. g. wetlands, caves, historical buildings, locations containing rare plant or animal species, stream banks, and dam structures.

o prescribed burn areas scheduled to be burned within 12 months of the permit request.

o areas that could potentially cause danger to visitors trying to locate the cache, such as, elevated in trees, underwater or in potential flood areas, places requiring climbing cliffs or bluffs.

o any State Park or State Historic Site structure.

* Burying caches is strictly prohibited.

Life of a Cache

* A cache may be located at a site for a maximum of 2 years.

* After 2 years, the owner will be responsible for retiring or relocating the cache.

Cache Container

* Cache containers must display an official, park issued geocache label on the outside of the container with the permit number and expiration date.

* Cache must not contain food, alcohol, drugs, medications, dangerous items, adult items, or weapons of any kind.

* Container should be watertight and non-breakable, and have a latch or closing mechanism to prevent exposure to wildlife.

* The container should not be larger than 1,000 cu. in. unless authorized by the facility manager.

Participation

* Participants must follow established trails (no bushwhacking to reach a cache).

* Participants must leave the caches where they found them.

* Participants must not use metal detectors in cache searches.

All caches are subject to random inspection by the facility managers or their designees, who have the authority to remove any item deemed unacceptable"

I rest my case.

If only.

5.7k · February 6, 2008

.

Edited February 6, 2008 by Team Cotati

5.7k · February 6, 2008

So what angle do you take to show the land manager that a cache would be a good idea?...

It depends on the person. You sell them on caching being fun, or that caching brings exposure to things they want people to be interested in or both. What exactly those are varies by the person and organization. You build from common ground.

Yeah that might be true, but it also depends upon whether or not cachers screw up. And I can for sure tell you that I have a good example of that very thing happening and resulting in ALL cachers being refused permission to place caches, period.

20.7k · February 6, 2008

So what angle do you take to show the land manager that a cache would be a good idea?...

It depends on the person. You sell them on caching being fun, or that caching brings exposure to things they want people to be interested in or both. What exactly those are varies by the person and organization. You build from common ground.

Yeah that might be true, but it also depends upon whether or not cachers screw up. And I can for sure tell you that I have a good example of that very thing happening and resulting in ALL cachers being refused permission to place caches, period.

That's true whether no permission was asked, simply verbal permission was received fromlocal personnel, or fifty pages of documents were filled out in triplicate and then sent for a vote before the full board on the third Tuesday after the solstice, once fees were paid and blood samples taken.

5.7k · February 6, 2008

So what angle do you take to show the land manager that a cache would be a good idea?...

It depends on the person. You sell them on caching being fun, or that caching brings exposure to things they want people to be interested in or both. What exactly those are varies by the person and organization. You build from common ground.

Yeah that might be true, but it also depends upon whether or not cachers screw up. And I can for sure tell you that I have a good example of that very thing happening and resulting in ALL cachers being refused permission to place caches, period.

That's true whether no permission was asked, simply verbal permission was received fromlocal personnel, or fifty pages of documents were filled out in triplicate and then sent for a vote before the full board on the third Tuesday after the solstice, once fees were paid and blood samples taken.

I presume that that right there surprises everyone.

20.7k · February 7, 2008

So what angle do you take to show the land manager that a cache would be a good idea?...

It depends on the person. You sell them on caching being fun, or that caching brings exposure to things they want people to be interested in or both. What exactly those are varies by the person and organization. You build from common ground.

Yeah that might be true, but it also depends upon whether or not cachers screw up. And I can for sure tell you that I have a good example of that very thing happening and resulting in ALL cachers being refused permission to place caches, period.

That's true whether no permission was asked, simply verbal permission was received fromlocal personnel, or fifty pages of documents were filled out in triplicate and then sent for a vote before the full board on the third Tuesday after the solstice, once fees were paid and blood samples taken.

I presume that that right there surprises everyone.

I presume that your post makes sense to you.

February 7, 2008

Find the correct person first (this can be the hard part) then ask nicely and don't use "standard" wording. Don't bamboozle them with too much detail at first. The purpose of your first contact is to get the "ok I'm curious, tell me more" response. Remember it's far easier for them to say "no".

I'm currently negotiating with the ranger at a Forest Park in the UK and things are looking good. Unfortunatley a cache was illegally placed on their land about 18 months ago. It was in a protected environmental area called an SSSI (Site of Special Scientific Interest) and so left a lot of bad feelings behind. (Over enthusiastic newbie)

February 7, 2008

Being a full blown Newbie, I think that all the above is very useful information. I am planning on my first hide in the spring. It's going to be on private land and I already have the land owners permission :unsure: He thought we were all just a bit crazy but said that all would fit in nicely with the rest of the valley population....

I got permission after only talking to him for about 10 min. and providing a brief explanation of what we do and what type of cache I would be planting and where it would be hidden. It couldn't have been easier.

9.5k · February 8, 2008

Getting permission, How do you ask for permission?

When I turn around and discover the land manager eyeballing me, I'll ask him/her without blinking, "What do you think of this location?"

Getting permission

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