Why TOPO maps?

January 21, 2008

I see a lot of threads where folks recommend buying TOPO maps for geocaching. Why? Maybe I am missing something but I think street maps would be a lot more useful than a TOPO. I guess it depends on where you cache, but even out in the middle of nowhere, my Metroguide or CN2008 maps seem to get me there and back. What more would a TOPO map add?

6.4k · January 21, 2008

Some places have these things called hills and mountains. It can be very important to know if there is one of these things between you and the tupperware when deciding which route to take.

January 21, 2008

Edited January 21, 2008 by MorganCoke

January 21, 2008

No crap? Really? Hills and Mountains! Oh my!

Maybe you could add a little more sarcasm next time...

January 21, 2008

it really depends where you plan on caching.......I live in what I believe is a quite hilly area on the side of a big bay that was carved by glaciers

I really dont think they are that great, the only topo product I bought was topo 24k parks, because its pretty detailed with lean-to's and what not

but for everyday caching I really dont think that the topo maps will help that much, I mean there's like 25ft difference between msot grid lines anyway......and the people who laid the cache probably didnt use the same mapping info/system you have

http://www8.garmin.com/cartography/ontheTrail/

6.4k · January 21, 2008

Maybe you could add a little more sarcasm next time...

I could if you want....

That WAS the serious answer as that is the reason for having topography on a map.

January 21, 2008

asdf

Edited January 21, 2008 by gratefulHIKE

January 21, 2008

Unless you are in serious mountainous country, or you just feel like spending $100 to have the maps with all the squiggly contour lines, you can do just fine without topo maps. I know very, very many successful cachers that don't use topo maps. Most caches are not in rugged terrain, far, far from a road where topo maps would be of much use.

I use mine for backpacking in the far removed backcountry where there are no roads. I use my street programs where there are roads.

6.4k · January 21, 2008

As you did not like my (funny) first answer, I've made some screenshots to show an example....

City Navigator 2008.

Topo Canada Version 2...

11.3k · January 21, 2008

I see a lot of threads where folks recommend buying TOPO maps for geocaching. Why? Maybe I am missing something but I think street maps would be a lot more useful than a TOPO. I guess it depends on where you cache, but even out in the middle of nowhere, my Metroguide or CN2008 maps seem to get me there and back. What more would a TOPO map add?

I have both types of maps on my Vista HCx. The auto-routing street maps are extremely helpful when I am driving, but when I am hiking, it is helpful to see the contour lines to make a decision about whether hiking to a ridge, or down into a gully or canyon, is the best route to take to get to the cache.

As soon as I get back to the car, I switch the maps so I have the streets and auto-routing available again.

Whether someone needs Topo maps or not depends on the type of caching they do. If you do most of your caching in urban settings and city parks, they wouldn't be necessary.

1.2k · January 21, 2008

No crap? Really? Hills and Mountains! Oh my!

It is useful to know if there are impassable (or difficult) terrain features between ones current location and the cache.

January 21, 2008

Thanks for the examples Red90 - Are the dotted lines trails? If so, I can see some use. Although there are no mountains where I live, but I have family in western MT and am planning a trip there this spring.

Also, if established trails on on there I think the National Parks maps would be nice for a trip to Yellowstone.....

January 21, 2008

I see a lot of threads where folks recommend buying TOPO maps for geocaching. Why? Maybe I am missing something but I think street maps would be a lot more useful than a TOPO. I guess it depends on where you cache, but even out in the middle of nowhere, my Metroguide or CN2008 maps seem to get me there and back. What more would a TOPO map add?

I have both types of maps on my Vista HCx. The auto-routing street maps are extremely helpful when I am driving, but when I am hiking, it is helpful to see the contour lines to make a decision about whether hiking to a ridge, or down into a gully or canyon, is the best route to take to get to the cache.

As soon as I get back to the car, I switch the maps so I have the streets and auto-routing available again.

Whether someone needs Topo maps or not depends on the type of caching they do. If you do most of your caching in urban settings and city parks, they wouldn't be necessary.

How do you do this? I first installed TOPOs on My Vista HCx, but then when I installed City Navigator TOSOs went away. Do you use a separate memory card? I think it would be a pain to have to uncheck all of the boxes on the map selection screen. I was disappointed to see that they wouldn't just overlap, or group all the TOPOs maps in one group and CN in another.

Edited January 21, 2008 by Uncopyrighted

2.6k · January 21, 2008

I see a lot of threads where folks recommend buying TOPO maps for geocaching. Why? Maybe I am missing something but I think street maps would be a lot more useful than a TOPO. I guess it depends on where you cache, but even out in the middle of nowhere, my Metroguide or CN2008 maps seem to get me there and back. What more would a TOPO map add?

I have both types of maps on my Vista HCx. The auto-routing street maps are extremely helpful when I am driving, but when I am hiking, it is helpful to see the contour lines to make a decision about whether hiking to a ridge, or down into a gully or canyon, is the best route to take to get to the cache.

As soon as I get back to the car, I switch the maps so I have the streets and auto-routing available again.

Whether someone needs Topo maps or not depends on the type of caching they do. If you do most of your caching in urban settings and city parks, they wouldn't be necessary.

How do you do this? I first installed TOPOs on My Vista HCx, but then when I installed City Navigator TOSOs went away. Do you use a separate memory card? I think it would be a pain to have to uncheck all of the boxes on the map selection screen. I was disappointed to see that they wouldn't just overlap, or group all the TOPOs maps in one group and CN in another.

You need to send BOTH types of maps at the same time. Sending them one after the other erases the first one.

2k · January 21, 2008

I am doing this from memory, which is very poor. You need to be on the map page and click menu/setup map. scroll over until you are on the round icon with the I in it (Information). Press menu and one of the options is to hide City Navigator North America. City Navigator will always be on top of Topo unless you hide it. Once you have done this a couple of times you get pretty good at it. That is how it works on my 60CS and 60CX. I don't kno if it is different on other units.

1.2k · January 21, 2008

No sarcasm here. Which way would you approach this cache?

1.2k · January 21, 2008

Dup post

Edited January 21, 2008 by benjamin921

1.1k · January 21, 2008

More data is more better.

January 21, 2008

It's also important to recognize that, although we are all into geocaching on this site, many people here also use their GPSrs for other activities that they engage in. The Topo maps can be very useful for other backcountry uses such as hiking, crosscountry skiing, snowshoeing, snowmobiling, etc. Not all of these activities necessarily are done on a trail.

Depending on your situation, you may not need any additional software. If you only plan to cache in the mountains on an isolated trip, just buying a topo map, and not software, may be the most cost effective way to go. Or if you travel alot to just National Parks, you might consider the National Geographic Backyard Explorer addition (if it works with your unit) as they only cover the park systems within a state.

You can also consider using Google Earth or Microsoft Virtual Earth to look at terrain. There are free sites to look at Topo and print out a small map for the place you're going.

What you need to buy (or get for free) is up to how often you will use the information. For your situation, I would print out what I need for free online, personally.

January 21, 2008

what is the National Geographic Backyard Explorer?

January 21, 2008

It's software you can purchase for your computer that works with GPSrs. I didn't catch if you mentioned which unit you had, so I'm not sure the software will be compatible with your unit or not. You can call NG, or their site may state which units it's compatible with.

It just basically covers parks and recreation areas around a selected city. It works best for people who just have a few days to travel and therefore can't go far from their home. Or someone who specifically goes to one specific area all the time. It's cheaper than buying a whole state Topo program. It really just depends on what you need.

Delorme's software is really nice though, so you might see if they offer smaller selections of a state, etc. to fit your needs.

Edited January 21, 2008 by elmuyloco5

1.2k · January 21, 2008

You can also consider using Google Earth or Microsoft Virtual Earth to look at terrain. There are free sites to look at Topo and print out a small map for the place you're going.

Just wait until you put some aerial imagery on your PN-20 (cats meow)!

January 21, 2008

Mapping-wise, the Delorme PN-20 really is the nicest. I think that's why we finally settled on it. My husband and I both just love maps, I know....weird. We've just always loved them and the PN-20 really holds the very best that technology has to offer right now. Delorme is orginally a mapping company after all, so it makes sense. Wednesday can't come soon enough!

6.4k · January 21, 2008

Mapping-wise, the Delorme PN-20 really is the nicest.

As long as you plan on spending your entire life within the USA.....

January 21, 2008

<drool> 2 days is going to seem like 2 months....

1.8k · January 21, 2008

Maybe I am missing something but I think street maps would be a lot more useful than a TOPO. I guess it depends on where you cache,

You got the answer in your question. It does depend on where you cache at. Chasing those urban LPCs and micros, other programs will do well. A topo shows elevation changes, to allow you to skirt those climbs you would rather avoid, or keep you from walking off a cliff.

January 21, 2008

with my Magellan eXplorist 210 I needed to get the TOPO so I could see all the little roads. The base map on the 210 only showed major roads.

January 21, 2008

Mapping-wise, the Delorme PN-20 really is the nicest.

As long as you plan on spending your entire life within the USA.....

That's true, but really most products you purchase within a country pertain to that country. We're ex-military and have learned that is true for alot of things. Just like you wouldn't go to Japan and expect for them to have alot of US and Canada items either. Some great items that Japanese based companies have, will rarely ever see the states at all (unless you live in Hawaii like we did....in which case you do see quite a few items). I'm sure you have companies up in Canada that cater to Canadians only. If you travel alot between the US and Canada, you have to work with a product that will suit your lifestyle. Nothing's perfect out there.

6.4k · January 21, 2008

That's true, but really most products you purchase within a country pertain to that country. We're ex-military and have learned that is true for alot of things. Just like you wouldn't go to Japan and expect for them to have alot of US and Canada items either. Some great items that Japanese based companies have, will rarely ever see the states at all (unless you live in Hawaii like we did....in which case you do see quite a few items). I'm sure you have companies up in Canada that cater to Canadians only. If you travel alot between the US and Canada, you have to work with a product that will suit your lifestyle. Nothing's perfect out there.

IME, most people that own a GPS travel..... When they travel, they want to take their GPS......

Most other GPS units have mapping for a lot of the world. If you have a Garmin, you can get FREE mapping for most of the world.

I'm just saying that the Delorme is very limitted as it is not much use unless you plan to stay in the USA your whole life.

January 21, 2008

I'm just saying that the Delorme is very limitted as it is not much use unless you plan to stay in the USA your whole life.

I can see what you're saying. And I'm not trying to push Delorme. You have to figure out what works for your lifestyle. Most geocachers don't travel world-wide, they travel within their country or a few surrounding countries (depending on how small their country is). Most, has to mean most. Most people in the world won't travel outside their own country. A greater number of people living in Europe will as the countries there are more like the size of US states.

At any rate, the point is to find what works for you. Are you traveling out of the US alot? Then buy a mapping program that works for that. Are you staying within the states and looking for a more detailed map for your travels, then Delorme gives you the best maps out there(if it is compatible with your unit of course). I would think it would be natural for anyone to want to purchase the very best they can afford for what they need. I get that Delorme doesn't work for you. That's ok. If Garmin does, then it makes sense for you. But for those who mostly stay within the US, Delorme can't be beat....for now anyway.

The OP didn't say that he traveled outside the US, so I think that software or paper maps for his needs are what is important in this thread.

Edited January 21, 2008 by elmuyloco5

24.7k · January 21, 2008

I see a lot of threads where folks recommend buying TOPO maps for geocaching. Why? Maybe I am missing something but I think street maps would be a lot more useful than a TOPO. I guess it depends on where you cache, but even out in the middle of nowhere, my Metroguide or CN2008 maps seem to get me there and back. What more would a TOPO map add?

Trails.

I can find my way around roads. They all connect and make sence. Traisl though twist and turn and can get confusing. Topo helps sort out trails.

Computer based topo maps can also help you plan a cache of caching. Short hikes. no hikes. or long hikes. Road maps can help with the short hikes but where do you need to park for the long one?

Both kinds of maps give you the most versatility.

2.4k · January 21, 2008

I see a lot of threads where folks recommend buying TOPO maps for geocaching. Why? Maybe I am missing something but I think street maps would be a lot more useful than a TOPO. I guess it depends on where you cache, but even out in the middle of nowhere, my Metroguide or CN2008 maps seem to get me there and back. What more would a TOPO map add?

We went to Letchworth State Park in NY last September. At the time, the only maps we had were the City Select 7 ones, but this trip convinced us that we needed Topo maps too. There's a huge gorge and river running the length of the park (more than 18 miles, counting twists and turns), but they don't show up on City Select at all. (This surprised us, since there are lots of little tiny streams and ponds the size of puddles that are on the CS maps, but not the Genesee River, for some reason.)

Here are two Mapsource screen shots of the southern end of the park. The first one is with the City Select map, and the second is with the Topo map. It's clear to see that we had no idea which side of the gorge the caches were on just going by the CS maps, but the Topo maps would have made it easy to tell.

City Select 7:

Topo 2008:

1.6k · January 22, 2008

On GPS receiveres, not all Topo maps are created equal.

More info here if you care for some.

Best comment above? "More data is better".

January 22, 2008

Its not always about hills, gorges and valleys but often, in our case, about marshes, streams, and other water features that don't show on City Nav. Where we live topo maps have helped us avoid water on numerous occasions and we wouldn't be without it.

JD

2.7k · January 22, 2008

City maps won't work where I hide my good ones.

January 22, 2008

City maps won't work where I hide my good ones.

Yes, and I would rather know ahead of time that I need drive a little to get to the other side of that creek rather than have to swim it. The PN-20 has the street level maps, plus all the creeks and pig trails to keep me from getting my shirt wet. :unsure:

2.1k · January 22, 2008

I'm just saying that the Delorme is very limitted as it is not much use unless you plan to stay in the USA your whole life.

I can see what you're saying. And I'm not trying to push Delorme. You have to figure out what works for your lifestyle. Most geocachers don't travel world-wide, they travel within their country or a few surrounding countries (depending on how small their country is). Most, has to mean most. Most people in the world won't travel outside their own country. A greater number of people living in Europe will as the countries there are more like the size of US states.

At any rate, the point is to find what works for you. Are you traveling out of the US alot? Then buy a mapping program that works for that. Are you staying within the states and looking for a more detailed map for your travels, then Delorme gives you the best maps out there(if it is compatible with your unit of course). I would think it would be natural for anyone to want to purchase the very best they can afford for what they need. I get that Delorme doesn't work for you. That's ok. If Garmin does, then it makes sense for you. But for those who mostly stay within the US, Delorme can't be beat....for now anyway.

The OP didn't say that he traveled outside the US, so I think that software or paper maps for his needs are what is important in this thread.

I understand your points exactly, EML5, you have stated them very eloquently. We must also understand Red90's situation. It is very unfortunate that the best combination of hardware and software (maps, both city and topo) are not available to him. It is as if he is working with one hand tied behind his back and my most heartfelt sympathies go out to him. :unsure:

2.1k · January 22, 2008

City maps won't work where I hide my good ones.

Yes, and I would rather know ahead of time that I need drive a little to get to the other side of that creek rather than have to swim it. The PN-20 has the street level maps, plus all the creeks and pig trails to keep me from getting my shirt wet.

Roger that!

My grandchildren and I were geocaching in local shopping centers today in an area where the greatest elevation change within 5 miles was the freeway overpass. Street level maps were all we needed to get within 200 feet after which they were no longer needed.

Now this summer, geocaching up in the High Sierras, we'll be grateful to have our DeLorme Topos and our USGS 3D Topo Quads on my PN-20.

January 22, 2008

What Garmin needs to do is get out of the 100,000 scale range and get serious with some 1:20,000 detail. At least 1:50,000 would be nice.

Edited January 22, 2008 by Firefishe

January 22, 2008

New to caching and not sure what program out there would show all(or atleast some) of the major dirt roads. Up in northern Idaho there are tons of logging roads ,any way to get mapping for those.

Thanks for the help

2.1k · January 22, 2008

I'd start with these:

http://shop.delorme.com/OA_HTML/DELibeCCtp...;minisite=10020

but when you order them they go into your shopping buggy at $50 each.

Of course, to make those work, you'll need one of these:

http://shop.delorme.com/OA_HTML/DELibeCCtd...;minisite=10020

These are that which I use and they just work.

But those USGS Topo maps are for the back country. As noted yesterday in another thread, they are not required for geocaching in developed areas.

Good luck!

January 23, 2008

I am doing this from memory, which is very poor. You need to be on the map page and click menu/setup map. scroll over until you are on the round icon with the I in it (Information). Press menu and one of the options is to hide City Navigator North America. City Navigator will always be on top of Topo unless you hide it. Once you have done this a couple of times you get pretty good at it. That is how it works on my 60CS and 60CX. I don't kno if it is different on other units.

I do the same on my Vista HCx, and the technique is the same, but, I don't know if this is unavoidable or not, my City Navigator maps are at the bottom of the map list, and with 100 or so topo quads but only 4 CN zones for Arizona, I spend a long, long time scrolling through the maps to turn of the CN map when I get to my destination. (And just as long to turn it back on.)

Does anybody know of a way to move the CN maps to the top of the list?

January 23, 2008

I do the same on my Vista HCx, and the technique is the same, but, I don't know if this is unavoidable or not, my City Navigator maps are at the bottom of the map list, and with 100 or so topo quads but only 4 CN zones for Arizona, I spend a long, long time scrolling through the maps to turn of the CN map when I get to my destination. (And just as long to turn it back on.)

Does anybody know of a way to move the CN maps to the top of the list?

You're missing Night Stalker's last step, hitting the menu key again...

You don't have to it map by map. When you're on that screen with the list of maps hit menu again to get a screen where you can hide/show entire mapsets. See this page:

http://www.miscjunk.org/mj/mp_mapset.html

Edited January 23, 2008 by IndyJpr

January 23, 2008

You're missing Night Stalker's last step, hitting the menu key again...

You don't have to it map by map. When you're on that screen with the list of maps hit menu again to get a screen where you can hide/show entire mapsets. See this page:

http://www.miscjunk.org/mj/mp_mapset.html

Ouch! Yes, I misread that completely!

Thanks! I might get to those geocaches before sundown from now on. :yikes:

5.3k · January 23, 2008

While I have a topo map loaded on my GPS, I will print a paper map if I going to an area were a topo map would be usefull. I find a paper map easier to use. Zooming in and out to look at a topo map on a GPS screen is not as easy as having the paper map.

I use Natational geographic topo ca. for maps that I print out.

January 23, 2008

You're missing Night Stalker's last step, hitting the menu key again...

You don't have to it map by map. When you're on that screen with the list of maps hit menu again to get a screen where you can hide/show entire mapsets. See this page:

http://www.miscjunk.org/mj/mp_mapset.html

Now that I've been suitably embarrassed, I'm going to say that seems like a poor design choice on Garmin's part.

Why on Earth would someone want to go into the individual maps first? (Assuming that they have multiple map products, which, admittedly, most people don't.) Surely it's more logically organized to start with the all on/all off for a particular mapset and then, if you want to fine tune that, step down an extra level in the menu to the individual sections? Even if all you do is work at the single map level, it would help narrow down which maps you're working with.

Well, now all I need to know is what double-menu buried option tells me how many waypoints I've used/have remaining and I'll be all set.

Pity the manual doesn't seem to cover anything useful.

January 24, 2008

I do the same on my Vista HCx, and the technique is the same, but, I don't know if this is unavoidable or not, my City Navigator maps are at the bottom of the map list, and with 100 or so topo quads but only 4 CN zones for Arizona, I spend a long, long time scrolling through the maps to turn of the CN map when I get to my destination. (And just as long to turn it back on.)

Does anybody know of a way to move the CN maps to the top of the list?

You're missing Night Stalker's last step, hitting the menu key again...

You don't have to it map by map. When you're on that screen with the list of maps hit menu again to get a screen where you can hide/show entire mapsets. See this page:

http://www.miscjunk.org/mj/mp_mapset.html

I never knew that! Just tried it on my B&W Vista (I typically have parts of at least 3 overlapping mapsets loaded - MetroGuide roads, 1:250k topo, and detailed 10 m contours) - and it works! Wow - thanks! That makes selecting the best map set a WHOLE lot easier!

Why TOPO maps?

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