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An idea for a cache series


Okiebryan

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Near where I live in Oklahoma is the boundary between the Chickasaw and Choctaw nations. These tribes were decent neighbors before they moved to Oklahoma, and were even better neighbors in their new lands in Oklahoma. One thing they did was to establish their boundary by treaty in 1854, and then paid a surveyor to run the line and place a monument at every mile along the line. Until 1907, this line was truly an international border between two sovereign nations.

 

Many of these stone monuments still exist, and some that are missing have been replaced in resurveys with stainless steel pipes with brass caps. The original stone markers ar pretty neat. I have seen some of them while surveying in the area. I am in the position to easily locate these markers. I already have coordinates a few of them.

 

Would people go after caches placed at these markers? They are all on private property, but I think I'd be able to get permission for many of them along the line. Most of them will be within 1/4 mile of a road, but a few might be a longer hike. "International Border Series"

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Near where I live in Oklahoma is the boundary between the Chickasaw and Choctaw nations. These tribes were decent neighbors before they moved to Oklahoma, and were even better neighbors in their new lands in Oklahoma. One thing they did was to establish their boundary by treaty in 1854, and then paid a surveyor to run the line and place a monument at every mile along the line. Until 1907, this line was truly an international border between two sovereign nations.

 

Many of these stone monuments still exist, and some that are missing have been replaced in resurveys with stainless steel pipes with brass caps. The original stone markers ar pretty neat. I'm have seen some of them while surveying in the area. I am in the position to easily locate these markers. I already have coordinates a few of them.

 

Would people go after caches placed at these markers? They are all on private property, but I think I'd be able to get permission for many of them along the line. Most of them will be within 1/4 mile of a road, but a few might be a longer hike. "International Border Series"

 

This sounds like an awesome idea! Very interesting. However, I believe you need Tribal authority to place a cache on any Indian Reservation in the U.S. or Canada. I'm in the middle of a couple, and there are certainly no caches there. And if this is correct, you'd probably need tribal authority from two tribes in this unique case. Don't take my word for it, I'd like to see a reviewer chime in.

 

This is the only discussion I came up with on a Google search from the West and Southwest forum

Edited by TheWhiteUrkel
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If the permission is given and clearly stated on the page along with any routes to be observed, I would go and do them. I just don't like crossing private property unless I know an agreement has been made. But then again I don't live in your part of the country.

 

Jim

 

I'd be hesitant even if permission was stated. As you said, these are sovereign nations. You have NO RIGHTS as an American citizen. I once got stopped by tribal police deep in an Arizona reservation. I thought my g/f was going to be ummm, violated, and us ending up in a shallow grave. :huh::) It took some fast talking.... and a good bribe, to get us out of there. :D

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I'd be hesitant even if permission was stated. As you said, these are sovereign nations. You have NO RIGHTS as an American citizen. I once got stopped by tribal police deep in an Arizona reservation. I thought my g/f was going to be ummm, violated, and us ending up in a shallow grave. :unsure::lol: It took some fast talking.... and a good bribe, to get us out of there. :unsure:

 

This is not sovereign nation anymore. It is not Indian reservation. It is just plain old rural Oklahoma. It has not been sovereign nation since 1907. The tribes sold off this land to individuals starting in 1899.

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I'd be hesitant even if permission was stated. As you said, these are sovereign nations. You have NO RIGHTS as an American citizen. I once got stopped by tribal police deep in an Arizona reservation. I thought my g/f was going to be ummm, violated, and us ending up in a shallow grave. :unsure::lol: It took some fast talking.... and a good bribe, to get us out of there. :unsure:

 

This is not sovereign nation anymore. It is not Indian reservation. It is just plain old rural Oklahoma. It has not been sovereign nation since 1907. The tribes sold off this land to individuals starting in 1899.

 

In that case, go for it (with proper land owner permission, of course :))

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Just to be clear....

 

This thread was not intended to ask if I could do this, or should do this, nor to begin a permission debate (blech). Please don't derail the thread with these responses.

 

The question was rather would this be perceived as worthwhile to other cachers? Would they take the time and make the effort to go to these caches? Would 150 year old concrete survey markers be something that anyone would care about? I'm with a lot of other people who are sick of boring back alley dumpster hides, and LPMs. I am trying to come up with more high quality caches in the area.

 

Still interested in those opinions. Would you rather see one cache near where the boundary line crosses the highway, or 15+ caches at different original stone markers along the 60+ miles of the line?...most of which would be accessible from the various county roads that cross the boundary line.

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Unfortunately I do not live near OK, but if I ever find myself in this area I will definitely check out these caches, assuming you actually place them and make clear on the cache page that I indeed may enter private property.

 

Do all the markers look the same? Is there any historical info you could provide, either on the cache page or in the cache? If in the area, I would like to visit them all.

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Unfortunately I do not live near OK, but if I ever find myself in this area I will definitely check out these caches, assuming you actually place them and make clear on the cache page that I indeed may enter private property.

 

Do all the markers look the same? Is there any historical info you could provide, either on the cache page or in the cache? If in the area, I would like to visit them all.

 

Oh, yeah. There will be a complete history lesson of the cache page of every cache in the series.

 

Which brings up another question: How much is too much on a cache page? I'll start a new topic about that.

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An idea for a cache series, "International Border"
That's a new meaning of "international" that I hadn't encountered before.

 

Here's what I consider a true "international" series, one that involves several real genuine nations.

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...8e-0d9602ecb4c9

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...6c-a786e653f903

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...4b-811018cdc329

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...09-406cf95b9f84

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That's a new meaning of "international" that I hadn't encountered before.

Here's what I consider a true "international" series, one that involves several real genuine nations.

 

Ummmmm.... From 1863 until 1907 the Chickasaw and Choctaw nations were "real genuine nations" and this was the border of their lands. So sorry if this doesn't make the bar of what you "consider" to be international.

 

Guess what? Texas used to be a sovereign nation as well. You should have stayed awake in US History class.

 

On the other hand, I like your handle. Lost Traveler fits you well.

Edited by Okiebryan
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if we lived in OK, we'd probably do a few of these, not 10 or 15, just to get a taste of the history involved. We live near the Mason-Dixon line and have found a cache near the eastern-most marker and are planning to seek others along the line. So I say set them up. If we travel to OK maybe we'll stop by one or two!

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Guess what? Texas used to be a sovereign nation as well. You should have stayed awake in US History class.

 

I suspect the poster was too busy staying awake to learn about the Red River Rebellion or something. And are you saying that Texas is not sovereign anymore? When did that happen?

 

As far as hunting the cache, I think some of the concerns of the land's current status is directly tied to whether people would hunt for it. If it is private land now (not tribal), explicate permission is granted and that permission has been conveyed the cache seekers this sound like it could be a fine series.

 

I'd hunt it as a traditional, an offset, a multi or a puzzle; whichever method best provided a history lesson of the area, as long as I felt that I had clear permission to be searching there. Such concerns are very relevant to my deciding whether a cache idea is a good one or not.

 

But generally, I like any cache with a good history lesson tied to it.

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If the permission is given and clearly stated on the page along with any routes to be observed, I would go and do them. I just don't like crossing private property unless I know an agreement has been made. But then again I don't live in your part of the country.

 

Jim

 

I'd be hesitant even if permission was stated. As you said, these are sovereign nations. You have NO RIGHTS as an American citizen. I once got stopped by tribal police deep in an Arizona reservation. I thought my g/f was going to be ummm, violated, and us ending up in a shallow grave. :unsure::unsure: It took some fast talking.... and a good bribe, to get us out of there. :anibad:

 

You do have rights, but in a situation like yours, they are just paper.

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I'd be hesitant even if permission was stated. As you said, these are sovereign nations. You have NO RIGHTS as an American citizen. I once got stopped by tribal police deep in an Arizona reservation. I thought my g/f was going to be ummm, violated, and us ending up in a shallow grave. :unsure::unsure: It took some fast talking.... and a good bribe, to get us out of there. :anibad:

 

This is not sovereign nation anymore. It is not Indian reservation. It is just plain old rural Oklahoma. It has not been sovereign nation since 1907. The tribes sold off this land to individuals starting in 1899.

I think it would make for a very interesting series of caches.

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Guess what? Texas used to be a sovereign nation as well. You should have stayed awake in US History class.

 

And are you saying that Texas is not sovereign anymore? When did that happen?

 

The Republic of Texas was annexed into the United States in December 1845. It became the State of Texas.

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Yes, but just not too many.

If possible each could have slightly different historical information, so that you don't have to put too much on any one cache page.

Also I know nothing about the area you are going to place them in, if when I get to each marker I see basicly the same as I would at any other marker than I would say less is better.

Maybe one near either end of the 'boarder' and then well spaced ones along the boarder depending on how long it is.

Would include one of the replacement ones as well.

 

I for one did not know they were countries in their own right, same goes for Texas. I did know that the French owned large section of land that the sold to the Americans. I love caches that teach me something about the area I am visiting.

 

Two thumbs up from me.

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I think it would be a great idea to turn this into a series of caches that leads to an end puzzle cache. Each cache would have a different piece of history on the page and a clue to the final puzzle in each cache container.

 

The puzzle could have something to do about a really interesting or piece of history involving the border or the two tribes, and each clue could fit into the story. In order to get the final coordinates they could either send you a message with the complete story, or their could be more clues within the story that they would have to figure out to get the coordinates. That would depend on the difficulty lvl that you want to set.

 

I know, I have way too much time on my hands.... :unsure:

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