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WeightMan

Geocache Leads to Mountain Rescue

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I have tried to find a link to this, but at this time I haven't found one.

 

I was just watching the news on TV and they reported the rescue of two climbers from Mount Hood, Oregon. The two had left Timberline Lodge yesterday attempting to climb the mountain. At about 10,000 feet they decided the weather was too bad to continue and started back down the mountain following their route up. Somehow along the way they got a bit lost. Once they reached the tree line, they built a snow cave to spend the night in. That area was well below where searchers were looking for them. Close to their camp was a geocache. Inside were the coordinates. They were able to establish radio contact with the searchers who were then able to locate the two fairly quickly. Both are in good condition and have been returned to Timberline.

 

If I find a link to the story online, I will pass it along.

 

Wow, great story!

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The cache link is way above. Here is another for GC-PNWSAR2.

 

Note that they were almost all the way down when they camped next to the geocache. They did everything they were supposed to. Including building a shelter for the night. White out conditions can disorient even the most experienced climbers. These guys would have made it out fine. The only reason SAR was out there is because they did another right thing and told someone when to expect thier return. When they didn't return she did the right thing and called the sheriff.

 

Sure they would have done better with a GPS... and a furnace, refrigerator, some cold beer.

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Great story! I still can't understand why you'd do a hike like that these days without a GPS.

 

Just watched an interview with the 2 guys. They didn't take a locator device because "We didn't think we'd need it"... Same old story. They should charge these guys for the costs of sending 20 people up there looking for them. Hiking unprepared on Mt. Hood in the middle of January? STUPID

Now there's a comment by the uninformed. Climbing a mountain is much different then "hiking unprepared on Mt. Hood". They were prepared - they were experienced climbers attempting winter climb of a mountain they've climbed before and were able to make a snow cave and spend the night, that shows a lot of preparedness. Their only error was not renting the locator units (something unique to Mt Hood), this is something that's not required, but is wise to do.

 

As to "charging them" that opens another whole can of worms. Most rescue groups are volunteer. If they start charging, then they are "pro" and a different set of rules/laws come into play. And then you have the arguement about when is rescue really needed - if I'm overdue but walk out on my own, should I be charged for something I didn't need or want? This has been a long and interesting discussion among mountain climbing groups.

 

The only stupid thing I see here is opinions expressed by people who have no idea what they are talking about.

 

You are the only one uninformed Sir (I use that lightly). I watched an interview they had with the guy after he got off the mountain.. HE SAID THEY WERE UNPREPARED. Which part of that are you having difficulty understanding?

Where you are calling them STUPID.

 

Have you done any mountain climbing? I have. I teach climbing with The Mountaineer's. I've been in a full whiteout. I've raced a storm off a peak when weather closed in fast.

 

Are familiar with that mountain/route? Again, I am. In whiteout, it's one of the easiest to get off route - even slightly will make you miss Timberline Lodge. They were doing what they needed to, heading for Hwy 26. They were almost there when SAR called them on the cell phone (which hadn't worked earlier).

 

You comments about "hiking" and "charging them for rescue" tell me all I need to know about your knowledge.

 

Edit to add: I watched the interview again. They never said "they were unprepared" - what they said is "they could have been better prepared", a much different meaning. The one went on to say "if we'd had a GPS we could have gotten to where we neededd to be." So, by not bringing one item, they are unprepared? Not hardly.

Edited by The Jester

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They obviously were not Boy Scouts, another case of being unprepared to go into the wilderness!

I disagree. They were prepared to spend the night, which they did. The intent was a day climb of the mountain. They had checked the weather and thought they had the time before the storm hit. It turned out that they didn't, but they gave up when the weather turned on them and started back down. They knew what they were up against and were able to deal with it. The last time I checked a GPSr was not on the list of 10 Essentials. When found they were within a mile of the road and would likely have gotten to that later in the day.

Regaurdless; unprepared or someone would have known where they were!

The search was started the day before they were found because people knew where they were headed and when they expected to return. The only thing that really got them into trouble was the white out conditions so they were descending the mountain without any ground reference at all. Would a GPSr have been helpful, sure it would. In fact they have stated that they will not be going out again without some kind of location reference device. My point is that they were prepared for the conditions on the mountain. They had everything they needed to have to survive and they did survive. Location information would have made their descent better in that they would have waymarked the lodge, but they still survived because they were prepared.

 

These were not a couple of flatlanders out for an excursion on the mountain. They were experienced climbers and knew what they were doing.

 

Did they have a map, a compass, a GPS??????? Take a look a a topo map of the area in question. Most Second Class Boy Scouts could have gotten themselves from where they found the cache to the state highway by themselves.

 

Prepared?????? No way as they were unable to navigate properly which is a fundamental before venturing out in the woods!!!!!!

 

v/r

 

Eagletrek (an Eagle Scout)

1. Who said that they didn't have a map or compass? Nope, no GPSr, but then that's not required in the backcountry. Do all your "Second Class Boy Scouts" carry them? Edit to add: They had map, compass, and altimeter.

 

2. Who said that they couldn't get from the cache to the highway? That's what they were working at when SAR called them on the cell - navigating to a known line from a unknown position.

 

3. Have you ever been in a full whiteout? Navigating with map & compass in those conditions is hit or miss (mostly miss). It is impossible to locate yourself on a map with a compass when you have NO external references. They were having problems even seeing the shape of the land for walking, much less plotting a location on a map. All you could do is try and follow a bearing - and hope it's the right one.

 

I was leading a climbing team off Mt Baker a few years ago in a whiteout (yes, I did have my GPSr, & I did mark the rope up spot). When we popped out of the clouds, and were right on top of the rope up spot, the rest of the team told me that they all felt like were were too far to the right of the correct route. If we'd relied on straight compass work (i.e. guessing what the bearing should be) and feelings, we'd have missed the spot by quite a bit and may have been doing the same thing - working at getting to a Hwy.

Edited by The Jester

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Where you are calling them STUPID.

 

Have you done any mountain climbing? I have. I teach climbing with The Mountaineer's. I've been in a full whiteout. I've raced a storm off a peak when weather closed in fast.

 

Are familiar with that mountain/route? Again, I am. In whiteout, it's one of the easiest to get off route - even slightly will make you miss Timberline Lodge. They were doing what they needed to, heading for Hwy 26. They were almost there when SAR called them on the cell phone (which hadn't worked earlier).

 

You comments about "hiking" and "charging them for rescue" tell me all I need to know about your knowledge.

 

 

AMEN Finally!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :)

Edited by TJdamon

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The last time I checked a GPSr was not on the list of 10 Essentials.

 

So, you're not allowed to bring one?

 

Nope, no GPSr, but then that's not required in the backcountry.

 

You're probably allowed to do more than what is required. Having a GPS unit with your gear doesn't seem to be much of a hardship. Even the climbers wish they would have had one.

 

That's all I'M saying.....

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KOMO 4 News actually said that the guys found a GPS hanging from the tree. Talk about messed up reporting. The lady who was reporting had a sort of incredulous tone while she said it, like, "this sounds too odd to be true, but it is!". :)

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The last time I checked a GPSr was not on the list of 10 Essentials.

 

So, you're not allowed to bring one?

 

Nope, no GPSr, but then that's not required in the backcountry.

 

You're probably allowed to do more than what is required. Having a GPS unit with your gear doesn't seem to be much of a hardship. Even the climbers wish they would have had one.

 

That's all I'M saying.....

Hey, I'm not saying that a GPSr isn't a good thing to have. But another long, interesting discussion is whether carrying electonics (cell phone, GPSr, etc.) into the wilderness is proper. It's off topic for this thread, but it's on going.

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KOMO 4 News actually said that the guys found a GPS hanging from the tree. Talk about messed up reporting. The lady who was reporting had a sort of incredulous tone while she said it, like, "this sounds too odd to be true, but it is!". :)

 

That's odd...most reports I've read say it was simply the coords from the cache location. Here is another source besides the original one I posted:

 

http://www.king5.com/localnews/stories/NW_...J.253cb5a0.html

 

It'd be interesting to hear the story from them first hand. Sounds off to find a GPS hanging in a tree, but anything is possible...maybe the interview will be on youtube.

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KOMO 4 News actually said that the guys found a GPS hanging from the tree. Talk about messed up reporting. The lady who was reporting had a sort of incredulous tone while she said it, like, "this sounds too odd to be true, but it is!". :)

 

That's odd...most reports I've read say it was simply the coords from the cache location. Here is another source besides the original one I posted:

 

http://www.king5.com/localnews/stories/NW_...J.253cb5a0.html

 

It'd be interesting to hear the story from them first hand. Sounds off to find a GPS hanging in a tree, but anything is possible...maybe the interview will be on youtube.

Sounds to me, and I saw the report on the news from KOMO4, that the reporter didn't understand what was said and jumped to a conclusion. Nothing new in the world of TV news reporting. Every other source I have seen says they found the cache and the coordinates were listed there.

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Blah, blah, blah..... Who cares as long as they are safe! Everyone knows the media can screw up boiling water. The point is simple; they did the right thing by turning back and when it got too bad they built shelter. When things cleared they started further down and came across an interesting thing (geocache). They were obviously smart enough to note the coords., but had they a GPSr, they would have been better off. Simple! Regardless, lesson learned, move on! Can we go caching now? ha

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Sounds to me, and I saw the report on the news from KOMO4, that the reporter didn't understand what was said and jumped to a conclusion. Nothing new in the world of TV news reporting. Every other source I have seen says they found the cache and the coordinates were listed there.

 

That's what I figured...was more curious that anything.

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Not to belabor the point but the GPSr has only been around for a handful of years. Mountaineers claimed all the summits without them.

 

Is climbing dangerous? You bettcha, so is driving a car.

 

Can you manage the risk? You sure can, that's what the ten essentials are all about.

 

Do I stuff everything I could possibly use into my pack? No way, that's where judgment comes into play.

 

Would I climb without my GPSr? No way, but then I already own one and I know how to use it.

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You comments about "hiking" and "charging them for rescue" tell me all I need to know about your knowledge.

 

Your comment above tells me all I need to know about you. I think they were unprepared and should suffer the consequences of that. That's my opinion.. Whether you like the opinion or not, that's my opinion. If you don't like it, well, that's your problem isn't it?

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Blah, blah, blah..... Who cares as long as they are safe! Everyone knows the media can screw up boiling water. The point is simple; they did the right thing by turning back and when it got too bad they built shelter. When things cleared they started further down and came across an interesting thing (geocache). They were obviously smart enough to note the coords., but had they a GPSr, they would have been better off. Simple! Regardless, lesson learned, move on! Can we go caching now? ha

 

The 3 climbers last year were experienced... Oh, by the way, they are dead. They decided to take one of the most difficult routes up the mountain during one of the most difficult times of the year. They paid the ultimate price. My point is, if a group is going to take extreme risks that could easily result in their deaths for the "Thrill", then I don't want my tax money paying for looking for their bodies.

 

They should sign a waiver before heading up the mountain "UNPREPARED".. There, I said it again. They could have easily died just like the guys last year.. They were lucky they didn't, not the other way around.

 

Blah blah blah... It's the same basic argument as requiring motorcycle helmets. I personally don't care if you choose not to wear your helmet, just don't come looking for tax money to keep you alive in your braindead state after you get in an accident.. Does that mean the motorcycle rider was un-experienced? No, it just means they were stupid for not wearing a helmet.

Edited by ReadyOrNot

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What, then, would have constituted "prepared"? They were unprepared to get back in a whiteout, but they were prepared survive one. Also, while I didn't read every article, none of the ones I did read indicated whether they ever requested help. If they didn't, why should they be charged for it? And as has been pointed out many S&R personnel are volunteer -- no tax dollars.

Edited by Dinoprophet

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... said that the guys found a GPS hanging from the tree. ...

 

and they kept hearing "turn right in 300 feet"

 

OT: they made it off the mountain. thanks SAR everywhere.

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What, then, would have constituted "prepared"? They were unprepared to get back in a whiteout, but they were prepared survive one. Also, while I didn't read every article, none of the ones I did read indicated whether they ever requested help. If they didn't, why should they be charged for it? And as has been pointed out many S&R personnel are volunteer -- no tax dollars.

 

The weather was forecast to be bad, it was not a surprise storm. They "thought" it wouldn't be a problem. You are correct, they were very experienced and that is why they survived. I'm sure I would have died if it was me, but I also wouldn't have gone up there under those conditions. They are "lucky" that everything turned out so well. They are "lucky" that the weather eased up on them and allowed them to walk out. Back to the motorcycle example: Just because I chooose to not wear a helmet does not mean I am not prepared to ride or that I am not experienced enough to ride, but if something bad does happen and I suffer a serious head injury, then it's my own dang fault because I should have known better and prepared for the worst.

 

Again, these guys are LUCKY they got out alive. Mother nature gave them a break this time.....

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Is it just me or does this seem like a stupid argument?

 

What's stupid is assuming that just because they are climbers that they are somehow immune to being critisized for making poor decisions.

Edited by ReadyOrNot

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... said that the guys found a GPS hanging from the tree. ...

 

and they kept hearing "turn right in 300 feet"

 

OT: they made it off the mountain. thanks SAR everywhere.

 

Technically a GPS would be very easy to spot hanging from a tree. More likely it would be sitting on top of a sheared off tree. They look like this:

 

GPSIIF_DVD-1111-1_375x300.jpg

 

Now a GPSr looks more like this:

 

cf-md.jpg

 

But what they found looks more like this:

 

68083p.jpg

Edited by MarcusArelius

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Just because I chooose to not wear a helmet does not mean I am not prepared to ride or that I am not experienced enough to ride, but if something bad does happen and I suffer a serious head injury, then it's my own dang fault because I should have known better and prepared for the worst.

 

And I don't want my tax money paying for scraping your body off the highway, or providing your life support with my insurance rates. Did you sign a waiver saying that you were "UNPREPARED" for the risk of riding on a highway? You would be just as unprepared as they were.

 

Otherwise you should have had armor all around the motorcycle with 100 airbages inside, and collision detection sensors front back and sides, and flashing lights all around so people could see you, and, and , and....

 

Yes I went ahead and pressed send instead of delete. My bad!

 

BTW, I cannot think of any SAR groups that are not totally comprised of volunteers. Not that there aren't some expenses reimbursed with tax funds. And of course the sheriff's time and any helicopter time provided by the government.

Edited by MarcusArelius

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Did you sign a waiver saying that you were "UNPREPARED" for the risk of riding on a highway? You would be just as unprepared as they were.

 

Otherwise you should have had armor all around the motorcycle with 100 airbages inside, and collision detection sensors front back and sides, and flashing lights all around so people could see you, and, and , and....

 

Yes I went ahead and pressed send instead of delete. My bad!

 

BTW, I can not thing of any SAR groups that are not totally comprised of volunteers. Not that there aren't some expenses reimbursed with tax funds. And of course the sheriff's time and any helicopter time provided by the government.

 

If I took my motorcycle out in windy, freezing conditions, not wearing a helmet and got in an accident (big surprise) and got lucky enough to escape without any major damage, would that make me any less of an idiot for taking the risk?

 

At least use the example properly. They were unprepared for the weather that was forecast. Did they miss the forecast? Probably not. They took a chance and got lucky.. Where's the debate here?

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... said that the guys found a GPS hanging from the tree. ...

 

and they kept hearing "turn right in 300 feet"

 

OT: they made it off the mountain. thanks SAR everywhere.

 

Technically a GPS would be very easy to spot hanging from a tree. More likely it would be sitting on top of a sheared off tree. They look like this:

 

GPSIIF_DVD-1111-1_375x300.jpg

 

Now a GPSr looks more like this:

 

cf-md.jpg

 

But what they found looks more like this:

 

68083p.jpg

Sorry, I was lazy in my typing. She actually said "GPS unit".

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Sorry, I was lazy in my typing. She actually said "GPS unit".

 

 

I was just trying to add some humor along with the heat. :rolleyes:

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Technically a GPS would be very easy to spot hanging from a tree. More likely it would be sitting on top of a sheared off tree. They look like this:

 

GPSIIF_DVD-1111-1_375x300.jpg

I like the humor! :rolleyes:

BUT, technically the S in GPS stands for system. Your photo was of a satellite.

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You comments about "hiking" and "charging them for rescue" tell me all I need to know about your knowledge.

 

Your comment above tells me all I need to know about you. I think they were unprepared and should suffer the consequences of that. That's my opinion.. Whether you like the opinion or not, that's my opinion. If you don't like it, well, that's your problem isn't it?

Not a problem to me. Just pointing out that an uninformed opinion has no weight in a real discussion of events.

 

It puts me in mind of an event that occured a couple of years back, where a new reporter after sharing a story about geocaching added his opinion "they should get a life". What a ruckus that raised right here in the forums. Everyone here was screaming about that uninformed opinion - letters were written, emails sent, the whole nine yards. I guess we just don't learn and keep doing the same thing, spouting off on subjects we don't really understand.

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Technically a GPS would be very easy to spot hanging from a tree. More likely it would be sitting on top of a sheared off tree. They look like this:

 

I like the humor! :rolleyes:

BUT, technically the S in GPS stands for system. Your photo was of a satellite.

 

You are absolutely right. I stand corrected. Of course they didn't find the whole system hanging from a tree either :)

 

I guess I'll go crawl back into my hole and stop talking about stuff I don't really understand :D

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Hey, I'm not saying that a GPSr isn't a good thing to have. But another long, interesting discussion is whether carrying electonics (cell phone, GPSr, etc.) into the wilderness is proper. It's off topic for this thread, but it's on going.
I can see purists in that sport trying to do it without any aids. It would add to the thrill/challenge. People climb up Everest and hike by frozen bodies to get there. The thrill is pushing it to the absolute limit to see if they can do it. Anyhow, I think calling these thrillseekers that fail stupid is harsh. They simply bit off more than they could chew.

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Great story! I still can't understand why you'd do a hike like that these days without a GPS.

 

Just watched an interview with the 2 guys. They didn't take a locator device because "We didn't think we'd need it"... Same old story. They should charge these guys for the costs of sending 20 people up there looking for them. Hiking unprepared on Mt. Hood in the middle of January? STUPID

Now there's a comment by the uninformed. Climbing a mountain is much different then "hiking unprepared on Mt. Hood". They were prepared - they were experienced climbers attempting winter climb of a mountain they've climbed before and were able to make a snow cave and spend the night, that shows a lot of preparedness. Their only error was not renting the locator units (something unique to Mt Hood), this is something that's not required, but is wise to do.

 

As to "charging them" that opens another whole can of worms. Most rescue groups are volunteer. If they start charging, then they are "pro" and a different set of rules/laws come into play. And then you have the arguement about when is rescue really needed - if I'm overdue but walk out on my own, should I be charged for something I didn't need or want? This has been a long and interesting discussion among mountain climbing groups.

 

The only stupid thing I see here is opinions expressed by people who have no idea what they are talking about.

 

You are the only one uninformed Sir (I use that lightly). I watched an interview they had with the guy after he got off the mountain.. HE SAID THEY WERE UNPREPARED. Which part of that are you having difficulty understanding?

Where you are calling them STUPID.

 

Have you done any mountain climbing? I have. I teach climbing with The Mountaineer's. I've been in a full whiteout. I've raced a storm off a peak when weather closed in fast.

 

Are familiar with that mountain/route? Again, I am. In whiteout, it's one of the easiest to get off route - even slightly will make you miss Timberline Lodge. They were doing what they needed to, heading for Hwy 26. They were almost there when SAR called them on the cell phone (which hadn't worked earlier).

 

You comments about "hiking" and "charging them for rescue" tell me all I need to know about your knowledge.

 

Edit to add: I watched the interview again. They never said "they were unprepared" - what they said is "they could have been better prepared", a much different meaning. The one went on to say "if we'd had a GPS we could have gotten to where we neededd to be." So, by not bringing one item, they are unprepared? Not hardly.

 

Totally Unprepared!!!!!! If navigation is critical to your survial especially where you can have white-out conditions, then not bringing a GPS is being totally unprepared , if not plain ignorant!!!! OBTW, make sure you have sufficient batteries to handle the length of your stay.

 

Screw the I've taught mountaineering nonsense. How about using a little Eagle Scout common sense!!!!!!! I bet these outdoorsman never learned the basics in the Boy Scouts.

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The cache page says GPS may not work in the area. I imagine it's worse in a whiteout. Probably wouldn't have helped.

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The cache page says GPS may not work in the area. I imagine it's worse in a whiteout. Probably wouldn't have helped.

 

GPSrs normally work well all over the planet as long as their signal is not blocked. Most problems occur when satellite coverage is poor due to the number of satellites available within LOS, canopy cover, and even disruption from heavy atmospherics. But like anything, just wait awhile and it will improve.

 

As far as the whiteout is concerned, they should have sheltered up once they couldn't sufficiently navigate and waited out the storm. It would have been a good time for a brew-up!!!!! As with everything, folks need to learn that common sense and patience are the corner stones to getting out of a tight fix.

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You comments about "hiking" and "charging them for rescue" tell me all I need to know about your knowledge.

 

Your comment above tells me all I need to know about you. I think they were unprepared and should suffer the consequences of that. That's my opinion.. Whether you like the opinion or not, that's my opinion. If you don't like it, well, that's your problem isn't it?

Not a problem to me. Just pointing out that an uninformed opinion has no weight in a real discussion of events.

 

It puts me in mind of an event that occured a couple of years back, where a new reporter after sharing a story about geocaching added his opinion "they should get a life". What a ruckus that raised right here in the forums. Everyone here was screaming about that uninformed opinion - letters were written, emails sent, the whole nine yards. I guess we just don't learn and keep doing the same thing, spouting off on subjects we don't really understand.

 

Maybe we should get a life. Just because you disagree doesn't mean its uninformed.. It just means you disagree. I'm informed in the sense that I continually watch people get into trouble up there. A guy from our church went missing on Mt. Hood about 10 years ago and they still haven't found him. Just because you are a mountain climber doesn't give you any more of an ability to make an observation than I. These guys thought they were so good and experienced that they didn't need the locator devices. That kind of ego gets people killed... In fact, I'm seeing the same ego in this thread... Hmmmmm

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I found this page very educational: http://www.traditionalmountaineering.org/News_HB2509.htm

 

I also found it difficult (I didn't find any) to find any mountaineering forums that were discussing this issue. I didn't spend a ton of time looking so don't flame me for that. I am not a mountain climber, never have been and never will be. This thread seems to be dominated by people who are also none of the above and are judging those who are.

 

I often say that life is what happens when you have made other plans. That pretty much describes most events where people end up injured or dead. Some times it is pure stupidity. Some times it is just plain bad luck. This event doesn't seem to fall under the pure stupidity category. People take risks sometimes. How boring would life be if we never took any risks?

 

Mountain climbing is a risky business. People die every year trying to climb mountains. Should we be saying they were stupid because they didn't anticipate every possible problem? I sure won't.

 

I try not to judge people if I haven't walked in their shoes. I haven't tried to climb Mt. Hood and haven't been caught in whiteout conditions there, so I really can't say if these guys were right or wrong. I would suggest that no one who does not have experience in these situations is qualified to pass judgement. Comparisons to other situations are meaningless.

 

I am glad they made it out safely and that our game received some positive press.

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Great story! I still can't understand why you'd do a hike like that these days without a GPS.

 

Just watched an interview with the 2 guys. They didn't take a locator device because "We didn't think we'd need it"... Same old story. They should charge these guys for the costs of sending 20 people up there looking for them. Hiking unprepared on Mt. Hood in the middle of January? STUPID

Now there's a comment by the uninformed. Climbing a mountain is much different then "hiking unprepared on Mt. Hood". They were prepared - they were experienced climbers attempting winter climb of a mountain they've climbed before and were able to make a snow cave and spend the night, that shows a lot of preparedness. Their only error was not renting the locator units (something unique to Mt Hood), this is something that's not required, but is wise to do.

 

As to "charging them" that opens another whole can of worms. Most rescue groups are volunteer. If they start charging, then they are "pro" and a different set of rules/laws come into play. And then you have the arguement about when is rescue really needed - if I'm overdue but walk out on my own, should I be charged for something I didn't need or want? This has been a long and interesting discussion among mountain climbing groups.

 

The only stupid thing I see here is opinions expressed by people who have no idea what they are talking about.

 

You are the only one uninformed Sir (I use that lightly). I watched an interview they had with the guy after he got off the mountain.. HE SAID THEY WERE UNPREPARED. Which part of that are you having difficulty understanding?

Where you are calling them STUPID.

 

Have you done any mountain climbing? I have. I teach climbing with The Mountaineer's. I've been in a full whiteout. I've raced a storm off a peak when weather closed in fast.

 

Are familiar with that mountain/route? Again, I am. In whiteout, it's one of the easiest to get off route - even slightly will make you miss Timberline Lodge. They were doing what they needed to, heading for Hwy 26. They were almost there when SAR called them on the cell phone (which hadn't worked earlier).

 

You comments about "hiking" and "charging them for rescue" tell me all I need to know about your knowledge.

 

Edit to add: I watched the interview again. They never said "they were unprepared" - what they said is "they could have been better prepared", a much different meaning. The one went on to say "if we'd had a GPS we could have gotten to where we needed to be." So, by not bringing one item, they are unprepared? Not hardly.

 

Totally Unprepared!!!!!! If navigation is critical to your survial especially where you can have white-out conditions, then not bringing a GPS is being totally unprepared , if not plain ignorant!!!! OBTW, make sure you have sufficient batteries to handle the length of your stay.

 

Screw the I've taught mountaineering nonsense. How about using a little Eagle Scout common sense!!!!!!! I bet these outdoorsman never learned the basics in the Boy Scouts.

Thanks for the laugh! Eagle Scout common sense. That's a good one. How is that any different than other common sense? Have you taken any Mountaineering training? Navigation is a big part of that. They did exactly what any scout would have done in the same situation. By missing a target point (Timberline Lodge) - which over the distance traveled is easy to do for ANYONE (scout or not) - they then headed for a known line (Hwy 26) which would then lead them back to base. This is standard, basic navigation. They did good.

 

By claiming that they were "totally unprepared" for not carrying one device is ridiculous. Why pick just the GPSr? There are some many items that they could have carried: MLU, sat phone, ham handheld, PELB. The list could go on. Remember, a GPSr is only one navigation tool available - and a fairly fragile one at that. Any device that requires batteries is problematic - cold can do very strange things (hence, why they didn't use their cell phone earlier). I've seen brand new batteries die in seconds in the cold.

 

I could return the insult to you about "scouting nonsense", but that wouldn't be any more true then you comment/insult. But I know that while scouting is good, it isn't the only place to learn navigation skills. I was just pointing out that I do have the knowledge to base my comments on.

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As far as the whiteout is concerned, they should have sheltered up once they couldn't sufficiently navigate and waited out the storm. It would have been a good time for a brew-up!!!!! As with everything, folks need to learn that common sense and patience are the corner stones to getting out of a tight fix.

I thought they did.

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I'm amazed that parts of this thread have become an argument. Then again, maybe I shouldn't be ... it seems to be a trend lately.

 

Looks like it's time to go find some caches.

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As far as the whiteout is concerned, they should have sheltered up once they couldn't sufficiently navigate and waited out the storm. It would have been a good time for a brew-up!!!!! As with everything, folks need to learn that common sense and patience are the corner stones to getting out of a tight fix.

I thought they did.

 

I believe so.

 

Here is a more recent video posted: http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2008/0...ers.rescued.kgw

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I'm amazed that parts of this thread have become an argument. Then again, maybe I shouldn't be ... it seems to be a trend lately.

 

Looks like it's time to go find some caches.

I think we're excited to have something other than micros and find counts to argue about.

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I think we're excited to have something other than micros and find counts to argue about.

 

HA HA HA!!! you may be right!

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I think we're excited to have something other than micros and find counts to argue about.

 

Don't forget cache placement "permission"...

Edited by egami

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I think we're excited to have something other than micros and find counts to argue about.

HA HA HA!!! you may be right!
That's funny! :lol:

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I'm amazed that parts of this thread have become an argument. Then again, maybe I shouldn't be ... it seems to be a trend lately.

 

Looks like it's time to go find some caches.

I think we're excited to have something other than micros and find counts to argue about.

 

Yeah, it's nice to mix it up every now and then. I spend a lot of time in the asp.net forums and they are "BORING". People don't realize how much more exciting these forums are because of all the fun arguments and debates. The Groundspeak forums would be boring and less used if the only questions were "What does FTF mean?" and "Look at my shiny new coin!" and "What kind of GPS should I buy?"...

 

The pointless squabbling is what makes it fun :lol:

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Yeah, it's nice to mix it up every now and then. I spend a lot of time in the asp.net forums and they are "BORING".

 

Oh, now come on, you can't beat a good old "standards" debate. Or the random Mac-addict rant!

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Great story! I still can't understand why you'd do a hike like that these days without a GPS.

 

Just watched an interview with the 2 guys. They didn't take a locator device because "We didn't think we'd need it"... Same old story. They should charge these guys for the costs of sending 20 people up there looking for them. Hiking unprepared on Mt. Hood in the middle of January? STUPID

Now there's a comment by the uninformed. Climbing a mountain is much different then "hiking unprepared on Mt. Hood". They were prepared - they were experienced climbers attempting winter climb of a mountain they've climbed before and were able to make a snow cave and spend the night, that shows a lot of preparedness. Their only error was not renting the locator units (something unique to Mt Hood), this is something that's not required, but is wise to do.

 

As to "charging them" that opens another whole can of worms. Most rescue groups are volunteer. If they start charging, then they are "pro" and a different set of rules/laws come into play. And then you have the arguement about when is rescue really needed - if I'm overdue but walk out on my own, should I be charged for something I didn't need or want? This has been a long and interesting discussion among mountain climbing groups.

 

The only stupid thing I see here is opinions expressed by people who have no idea what they are talking about.

 

You are the only one uninformed Sir (I use that lightly). I watched an interview they had with the guy after he got off the mountain.. HE SAID THEY WERE UNPREPARED. Which part of that are you having difficulty understanding?

Where you are calling them STUPID.

 

Have you done any mountain climbing? I have. I teach climbing with The Mountaineer's. I've been in a full whiteout. I've raced a storm off a peak when weather closed in fast.

 

Are familiar with that mountain/route? Again, I am. In whiteout, it's one of the easiest to get off route - even slightly will make you miss Timberline Lodge. They were doing what they needed to, heading for Hwy 26. They were almost there when SAR called them on the cell phone (which hadn't worked earlier).

 

You comments about "hiking" and "charging them for rescue" tell me all I need to know about your knowledge.

 

Edit to add: I watched the interview again. They never said "they were unprepared" - what they said is "they could have been better prepared", a much different meaning. The one went on to say "if we'd had a GPS we could have gotten to where we needed to be." So, by not bringing one item, they are unprepared? Not hardly.

 

Totally Unprepared!!!!!! If navigation is critical to your survial especially where you can have white-out conditions, then not bringing a GPS is being totally unprepared , if not plain ignorant!!!! OBTW, make sure you have sufficient batteries to handle the length of your stay.

 

Screw the I've taught mountaineering nonsense. How about using a little Eagle Scout common sense!!!!!!! I bet these outdoorsman never learned the basics in the Boy Scouts.

Thanks for the laugh! Eagle Scout common sense. That's a good one. How is that any different than other common sense? Have you taken any Mountaineering training? Navigation is a big part of that. They did exactly what any scout would have done in the same situation. By missing a target point (Timberline Lodge) - which over the distance traveled is easy to do for ANYONE (scout or not) - they then headed for a known line (Hwy 26) which would then lead them back to base. This is standard, basic navigation. They did good.

 

By claiming that they were "totally unprepared" for not carrying one device is ridiculous. Why pick just the GPSr? There are some many items that they could have carried: MLU, sat phone, ham handheld, PELB. The list could go on. Remember, a GPSr is only one navigation tool available - and a fairly fragile one at that. Any device that requires batteries is problematic - cold can do very strange things (hence, why they didn't use their cell phone earlier). I've seen brand new batteries die in seconds in the cold.

 

I could return the insult to you about "scouting nonsense", but that wouldn't be any more true then you comment/insult. But I know that while scouting is good, it isn't the only place to learn navigation skills. I was just pointing out that I do have the knowledge to base my comments on.

 

Yeah, I think I have a little expertise in the outdoors and navigating, 12 years of scouting as a youth, 20 years in the military, and 6 years of scouting as an adult. Add to that some extensive experience in backpacking and navigation through various areas of the globe to include the Western Saudi Desert and I'd say I got some experience. BTW, have you ever encountered a brown-out and I'm not talikng about the electrical type. That said, I consider myself fairly competent with a map, compass, and GPSr.

 

I'm glad the folks in question were able to work there way out of their fix but it still doesn't negate the fact that they should have taken a GPSr and the requisite batteries. BTW, I never said a GPSr was the only navigation device they should have had. When I leave the house to go into the outdoors, I take a map, compass, and GPSr. I'm really considering adding a PLB when all else fails. See if I now go out without a PLB and get screwed up or die, you can all get on the forum and say how unprepared I was and you would be right. Honey, I'm buying that PLB.

 

As far as a GPSr and batteries being fragile, I'd have to disagree. While anything electronic can fail, my Garmin GPSMAP 60CS hasn't let me down once in over 3 and 1/2 years worth of use. I've abused it fairly well and it keeps on ticking. Yes, batteries and electronics can be a problem in cold weather but if you know how and where to carry them, they'll work pretty much as advertised. See they teach you things like that in the military!!!!!

 

I'm sorry you took my post as an insult but then again most folks do find the truth to be offensive.

 

OBTW, "Be Prepared" it's a Scouting Thang!!!!!

Edited by eagletrek

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This thread is about a mountain rescue aided by a giscovered geocache. If you want to hash out opinions and experiences about the proper way to prepare for a mountain expedition, do it in off topic or on a mountaineering site.

 

Thanks

 

We now return to our regularly scheduled discussion.

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