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PN-20 or Colorado 400t?


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Something else to mention that people might not be aware of, the PN-20 can be hooked up to your computer and used through it to navigate as well. So if you are looking for a larger screen to navigate with and carry your laptop, it will also function this way.

That should be possible with almost any GPS receiver, if you have the right software. MacGPS Pro, for instance, can capture and display real-time info that uses the NMEA 0183 or Garmin PVT format.

 

Patty

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I've been doing that for 3+ years (when I want to) with Delorme Topo USA ver 3, and old Garmin Etrex, Magellan Meridian, etc. Since Topo USA comes with the PN-20, what Delorme says is true. You could also use many other GPS receivers with Delorme's software. Conversely, there are many other mapping programs that can do the same thing, with almost any GPSr. It's pretty much a no-brainer.

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all that i can say is now that ive had my pn20 for a couple of days and have hit some caches with it(not in the literal sense)im very happy with it. yeah, it may be a little slow on the draw but im willing to to overlook that since the map quality is so good and the whole unit performs waaaay better than the magellan ive had for about 2 years. i will recommend the delorme to anyone looking to get a new GPSr. oh yeah, i bought mine online at www.dickssportinggoods.com and i think it was 349 or so. money well spent as far as im concerned.

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Just placed the phone order for the PN-20. Deluxe package w/sales tax and shipping came to $374.45 and should be here by Wednesday! I asked for the free shipping but nope, not this time. LOL

 

BTW, I had to ask for the sale price and was told they would still honor it for me so you may have to ask for it when calling. The person I talked to mentioned an email flyer (probably existing customers) but I told him I heard of the sale here and he said no problem!

Edited by KJcachers
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Just placed the phone order for the PN-20. Deluxe package w/sales tax and shipping came to $374.45 and should be here by Wednesday! I asked for the free shipping but nope, not this time. LOL

Great! Don't forget to upload the latest firmware. As of this post it is 1.3 and we are testing 1.4, so that will be out soon.

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Just placed the phone order for the PN-20. Deluxe package w/sales tax and shipping came to $374.45 and should be here by Wednesday! I asked for the free shipping but nope, not this time. LOL

 

BTW, I had to ask for the sale price and was told they would still honor it for me so you may have to ask for it when calling. The person I talked to mentioned an email flyer (probably existing customers) but I told him I heard of the sale here and he said no problem!

 

Hmm, I guess it all depends on who you get there. I don't remember the lady's name that we spoke with, sorry. She was the only one there over the weekend, or so she said anyway. We didn't have to ask for the sale though. We were at a store looking at one but they had Topo 6 with it instead of Topo 7. We were calling to find out what the difference was. For those who don't know and might need the info, Topo 6 doesn't have precut maps. Topo 7 has them all precut for easier transfer to your unit.

 

Anyway, she's just offered up that they were on sale. It was going to save us $100 from the store model and then we decided to spend the extra $50 to get the deluxe package. She offered the shipping free to us too. Sorry you didn't get the same B) Customer service is only as good as the person you get, unfortunately. Hope you like your unit though!! We can't wait for ours! We were getting tired of the monochromatic screen on our Meridian B)

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Something else the lady told me is that they other maps and images that they offer are 50% off if you own a PN-20. Of course you will get the $100 to spend on images, but if you need more than that, having the PN-20 gets you a nice discount through them.

I believe that the 50% off is for state 3D Topo Quads and there is a $99 upgrade price for XMap Pro (awsome for bringing in lots of free aerial imagery). Of course when you call, make sure that you tell them you have the PN-20.

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I don't have mine yet, so I can't get you first hand info. But, I did find this comment from Team Delorme online that should answer things for you:

 

I'm not sure that 'tedious' is a fair description... I'll outline the steps so that you can make the call for yourself.

 

1. Download the GPX file from Geocaching.com.

2. Use the Draw tab in Topo USA to import your GPX file.

3. Use the Exchange Dialog to transfer the Waypoints to your PN-20.

 

It's really that simple. Personally, I build Pocket Queries for the areas where I travel. It allows me to push a lot of waypoints to the device at once and it includes the cache description and hint along with other important info.

 

One of the new features we're trying to share with people is the ability to view full cache details (up to 800 characters) within each Waypoint on the PN-20. We are trying hard to remove the need for printing cache descriptions or carrying a second device with the cache details.

 

We're also listening very closely to people like yourself and working to make improvements for waypoint management in Topo USA as well as other places. I've been championing the Send to GPS plug-in and based on reaction to your post feel like we'll see progress in this area... We're a small company and we try hard to react quickly to these types of requests.

 

There's a 30 day money back guarantee on our device. I'm in the forums pretty regularly... feel free to fire me an e-mail if you have any questions. If I can't show you what we've done to improve the geocaching experience then you're free to return the device... we want our customers to be happy with their purchase.

 

Chip Noble

Team DeLorme

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My PN-20 was on the porch this morning. YeeHaw!!

 

Since I've never before used one of these gadgets I'm taking it slow & easy. I read the manual, got Topo USA loaded onto the PC (that is quite a piece of software...I don't know that I'll ever need everything that it looks like it can do) and the PN-20. I then found a cache within 0.5 miles of the house, downloaded the .loc file and got it onto the PN-20. I got a little nervous when, right out of the box and during installation I was given a message that an update was required. I wasn't expecting that and thought I'd missed something in the manual. But I got through it -- apparently they don't ship with the most recent firmware version pre-installed.

 

I then took a walk.

 

And got DNF'd. I think that there might've just been too much snow.

 

Granted, I've not come even close to putting it through it's paces, but it sure does seem like a sweet little device. I believe that it will meet my needs wonderfully.

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A good portion of electronic equipment out there will need an update after you just purchased it. Video gaming platforms, GPS units, cell phones, etc. are all upgraded on a regular basis to make the items more user friendly and to fix bugs.

 

You should see the update as a good thing. There are several people on this forum waiting for Magellan to get around to making updates for the mess of a unit they just put out, and there are Garmin issues arising as we speak. Only time will tell how fast they can get things working. Be glad when you see a company that works hard to ensure you have the best customer experience you can! And be glad that those updates are there so that you don't have to experience some of the initial problems that all equipment go though when first released.

 

From what I understand, there will be another update in the near future that will allow for more characters to be displayed. I don't think that one has come out yet. If you have any questions, Delorme has a forum where you can talk to the person I quoted above and others like Embra that have owned their units for some time. You can also call Delorme. I've called at least a dozen times with questions and never waited more than a few minutes to talk to someone.

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My PN-20 was on the porch this morning. YeeHaw!!

 

Since I've never before used one of these gadgets I'm taking it slow & easy. I read the manual, got Topo USA loaded onto the PC (that is quite a piece of software...I don't know that I'll ever need everything that it looks like it can do) and the PN-20. I then found a cache within 0.5 miles of the house, downloaded the .loc file and got it onto the PN-20. I got a little nervous when, right out of the box and during installation I was given a message that an update was required. I wasn't expecting that and thought I'd missed something in the manual. But I got through it -- apparently they don't ship with the most recent firmware version pre-installed.

 

I then took a walk.

 

And got DNF'd. I think that there might've just been too much snow.

 

Granted, I've not come even close to putting it through it's paces, but it sure does seem like a sweet little device. I believe that it will meet my needs wonderfully.

Congratulations, you'll enjoy it. As noted above, I don't find it any big deal to get the data from geocaching.com to my PN-20. However, I do download the GPX file, instead of the LOC file, as it also brings along the comments and background info. One thing lacking is the cache size (micro, small, etc.), so I manually edit that into the comment field. As such, I'm into paperless geocaching. Anything else, we are at the delorme fourms.

 

Oh yeah, my PN-20 got us close enough for my 7 year old grandson to make two finds today! <_<

What else could I want? :unsure:

Edited by CowboyPapa
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Congratulations, you'll enjoy it. As noted above, I don't find it any big deal to get the data from geocaching.com to my PN-20. However, I do download the GPX file, instead of the LOC file, as it also brings along the comments and background info. One thing lacking is the cache size (micro, small, etc.), so I manually edit that into the comment field. As such, I'm into paperless geocaching. Anything else, we are at the delorme fourms.

Thanks, CowboyPapa. I'm sure that I'll be getting into the GPX format and Pocket Queries soon. The .loc file seemed to me like a nice, gentle way to ease my way into a gadget and technology with which I'm utterly unfamiliar. Plus, I wanted to take it for a spin a soon as possible. :unsure:

 

I think that I might've found a hobby that I'll stick with for more than a year-or-so.

 

Cripes....I feel like I'm going through a second childhood or something. <_<

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Congratulations, you'll enjoy it. As noted above, I don't find it any big deal to get the data from geocaching.com to my PN-20. However, I do download the GPX file, instead of the LOC file, as it also brings along the comments and background info. One thing lacking is the cache size (micro, small, etc.), so I manually edit that into the comment field. As such, I'm into paperless geocaching. Anything else, we are at the delorme fourms.

Thanks, CowboyPapa. I'm sure that I'll be getting into the GPX format and Pocket Queries soon. The .loc file seemed to me like a nice, gentle way to ease my way into a gadget and technology with which I'm utterly unfamiliar. Plus, I wanted to take it for a spin a soon as possible. :unsure:

 

I think that I might've found a hobby that I'll stick with for more than a year-or-so.

 

Cripes....I feel like I'm going through a second childhood or something. :unsure:

 

Geez, I know what you mean. I've got three childhoods going here: myself, my daughter and her two children. <_<

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Thanks, CowboyPapa. I'm sure that I'll be getting into the GPX format and Pocket Queries soon. The .loc file seemed to me like a nice, gentle way to ease my way into a gadget and technology with which I'm utterly unfamiliar. Plus, I wanted to take it for a spin a soon as possible. :unsure:

 

I think that I might've found a hobby that I'll stick with for more than a year-or-so.

 

Cripes....I feel like I'm going through a second childhood or something. :unsure:

 

I'd suggest getting into paperless caching too, if you're not already. I know the PN-20 gives some info, and from the sounds of it, the new update might help with that more. I would also suggest looking into an inexpensive Palm unit. You can buy them used for a pretty good price on Ebay, or maybe even from someone in your local caching group. Cachemate is a great program (costs $8) and will display the description, hint, size, who placed it, past 5 logs, let you log it as found and your text log, and send that log to GC.com so you don't have to log again. It makes caching alot smoother.

 

Glad to hear you're so excited. Caching is alot of fun. It's a great activity for families, and a wonderful teaching tool for kids <_<

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I'd say don't overwhelm yourself with too much technology acquisition/training at a time; but when you start to get a little tired of printing out a cache page to take with you, you'll be ready to take the next step. I also endorse the idea of CacheMate on a PDA as a good way to insure you have all the data with you that you might need. Although I expect the increased comment field of the PN-20 to allow me to leave the PDA in my pack more, sometimes the description will exceed the allocated space. Then the PDA has it all.

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I can't wait for mine to get here so I can play with it and GSAK. anybody got any comments on these working together?

Delorme is trying to design things so that people don't need a third party application to run their gpx files through. Some will appreciate that simplicity, but those into slicing and dicing their data with GSAK will still want to use it.

 

The link that CowboyPapa put up leads to a thread on the Delorme boards that discussed a little problem in personal preferences within Topo7, but also a GSAK-based solution to the problem. You can use GSAK to name the waypoints whatever you wish with the aid of a GSAK macro, and you can append special tag data to the description going into the comment. I find the whole process pretty easy to do.

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Does the PN-20 allow any room to enter text? For instance, can you record anything down for puzzle info or log your find, etc? I would love to be able to get rid of one more of the items we carry around. If we could get rid of the PDA, it would be great. But, I wouldn't want to get rid of it, if I couldn't duplicate what I can with cachemate.

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I'd suggest getting into paperless caching too, if you're not already.

I've been giving that a little thought, also. But in the past, while the gadget-freak in me has always wanted to get a PDA, my rational side has always realized that I had utterly no need for a PDA and rationality always won that particular debate.

 

If I were to look into a cheap PDA on Ebay, what kind of memory capacity ought I be looking for? Bear in mind that I really don't see "power caching" in my (at least immediate) future. [side note: I've been reading another thread here where some folks are (rather heatedly) debating the 500 cache/PQ limit. Call me a newbie, but I just don't quite understand why anyone would need more that that.]

 

Thanks.

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Here's the requirements for cachemate:

 

Requirements: Palm OS® 3.0 or later

Versions for other platforms are also available.

 

CacheMate™ is a database for tracking GPS cache hunts. You can store information about caches or benchmarks, decode hints, and transfer data between CacheMate and the MemoPad application. Registered users can import LOC and GPX formatted XML files, which are available from Geocaching.com.

 

Features:

 

* Sony/HandEra/Palm hi-res support

* Palm OS® 5/6 compatibility

* Scrollable color "overview" display

* Multiple database support

* Editable cache type list

* Support for the Palm OS® Find system

* Import/Export data with MemoPad

* Geocaching hint decoder

* Record bookmarking

* "Nearest caches" search with GPS support

* Bluetooth GPS support

* Jog wheel support

* Import/Export waypoints using GPX and LOC XML files

* Plugin application support

* Waypoint projection

* Memory card support (see documentation for details)

 

Did you know that you can use an Ipod to paperlessly cache? Cachemagnet is free software to import all of the info from a cache to an ipod. I don't know much about it (and am actually looking into it for us as well), but there is a notepad, so you should be able to record info down too. This might be an option for you if you don't have a use for a PDA. Everyone likes their music! :unsure:

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Does the PN-20 allow any room to enter text? For instance, can you record anything down for puzzle info or log your find, etc? I would love to be able to get rid of one more of the items we carry around. If we could get rid of the PDA, it would be great. But, I wouldn't want to get rid of it, if I couldn't duplicate what I can with cachemate.

Well...you could probably add text to the comment field of most existing waypoints--or even make a new waypoint and enter text in the comment there. But unless it was really brief, I would think the ease of text entry on the PDA would be preferable. Like many GPS units, you have to use the rocker switch to select letters and numbers on a virtual keyboard. I regard that as a [necessary] PITA.

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If I were to look into a cheap PDA on Ebay, what kind of memory capacity ought I be looking for?

I'd say 4MB would be an absolute bare minimum, if you're using it for nothing else. 8MB should be enough for most users, but that being said I'd recommend getting 16MB or more so you could do a few other things if you want.
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Does the PN-20 allow any room to enter text? For instance, can you record anything down for puzzle info or log your find, etc? I would love to be able to get rid of one more of the items we carry around. If we could get rid of the PDA, it would be great. But, I wouldn't want to get rid of it, if I couldn't duplicate what I can with cachemate.

Yes, this is possible, two ways:

1. After importing GPX file to Topo 7, one may open the comment field (now 800 characters in FW 1.4 Beta) and edit it to add or delete characters. Then Exchange/export to the PN-20, or

2. In PN-20, after exchange, navigate to the Wapoint screen for the subject geocache, scroll to the comment field and make any character edit, addition or deletion, as desired.

 

Currently (but on their list, I believe), Topo 7 does not pick up the cache size (micro, small, etc.), which I like to see. If the cache owner does not put it in the comments/descriptive info, I prefer to manually edit this into the comment field.

 

In so doing, I'm out of the house without paper! :unsure:

Edited by CowboyPapa
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Did you know that you can use an Ipod to paperlessly cache? Cachemagnet is free software to import all of the info from a cache to an ipod. I don't know much about it (and am actually looking into it for us as well), but there is a notepad, so you should be able to record info down too. This might be an option for you if you don't have a use for a PDA. Everyone likes their music! :unsure:

 

the new version of GSAK allows a macro to be installed and run that loads up to 1000 waypoints into the notes section of the iPod. 1000 is the limit of the iPod and that number includes child waypoints like parking. I have been using it over a week now and it's great. I am hoping to use GSAK with my new PN-20 so I can keep everything in one application. GSAK also has a macro that creates the find info for my profile so thats another reason I like it.

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Did you know that you can use an Ipod to paperlessly cache? Cachemagnet is free software to import all of the info from a cache to an ipod. I don't know much about it (and am actually looking into it for us as well), but there is a notepad, so you should be able to record info down too. This might be an option for you if you don't have a use for a PDA. Everyone likes their music! :unsure:

 

the new version of GSAK allows a macro to be installed and run that loads up to 1000 waypoints into the notes section of the iPod. 1000 is the limit of the iPod and that number includes child waypoints like parking. I have been using it over a week now and it's great. I am hoping to use GSAK with my new PN-20 so I can keep everything in one application. GSAK also has a macro that creates the find info for my profile so thats another reason I like it.

 

Sorry this is a bit off topic now that we're discussing ipods, but is there also a way to make notes? I know there's a notepad, what about within the imported geocache info? I think the PN-20 will be difficult to enter info, but an ipod is so much smaller than a PDA, and is more useful to us than a PDA as well. I'm not a business person and don't require large address books and something to use the Office type applications on. I'm at home all day and use my computer when I need it. When we're away from home, we're not working so a PDA is nice, but a whole lotta unecessary....ya know?

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When I click on the link to down load the macro all that comes up is a page of text is that what you copy into the GSAK folder. I am ordering my PN-20 today. I use GSAK and have been trying to figure out what I need to do to still use it. Also, how many can you send to T7 at one time?? I use pocket queries to get my waypoints from the site.

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Great choice. The bike mount is super secure too!

 

I don't suppose you know of a way to mount this puppy without having to remove the shifter, brake and grip, do you? It's not that I can't do it....it just seems like a bit of a pain. This is the first time that I've come across a handlebar mount that had to be slid on rather than wrapped around.

Thanks.

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When I click on the link to down load the macro all that comes up is a page of text is that what you copy into the GSAK folder. I am ordering my PN-20 today. I use GSAK and have been trying to figure out what I need to do to still use it. Also, how many can you send to T7 at one time?? I use pocket queries to get my waypoints from the site.

It appears that your browser is opening the file as a text file. My recollection was that I downloaded the file without opening it, and then either moved or copied it from my downloads folder to the GSAK macro folder. You could try saving the opened file (with the same name) to your GSAK macro folder. Macros consist of the kinds of text you are seeing. If you still have difficulty getting it to a place and state where you can run it, I'll try to help when I get home from work.

 

You can send up to 1000 waypoints over to the PN-20. It's probably a good idea to not fill it up completely, so you can make a few waypoints in the field if you need them. I also think the device works a little faster if you don't approach capacity (it takes a while to sort a list of 1000 items).

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Great choice. The bike mount is super secure too!

 

I don't suppose you know of a way to mount this puppy without having to remove the shifter, brake and grip, do you? It's not that I can't do it....it just seems like a bit of a pain. This is the first time that I've come across a handlebar mount that had to be slid on rather than wrapped around.

Thanks.

Recommended--> The safest way would be to remove the items on your handle bar.

 

Use Caution: I just pried it apart enough to slip over the bar.

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Great choice. The bike mount is super secure too!

 

I don't suppose you know of a way to mount this puppy without having to remove the shifter, brake and grip, do you? It's not that I can't do it....it just seems like a bit of a pain. This is the first time that I've come across a handlebar mount that had to be slid on rather than wrapped around.

Thanks.

Recommended--> The safest way would be to remove the items on your handle bar.

 

Use Caution: I just pried it apart enough to slip over the bar.

You're a braver man than I, benjamin921. :)

 

Either that, or your handlebars are just skinny enough to pull that trick off. I had given that "use caution" method a try but decided that it would've just ended up breaking the mount. It strikes me as a definite design flaw.

 

Thanks for the reply.

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...Currently (but on their list, I believe), Topo 7 does not pick up the cache size (micro, small, etc.), which I like to see. If the cache owner does not put it in the comments/descriptive info, I prefer to manually edit this into the comment field.

 

In so doing, I'm out of the house without paper! :D

 

I am still using my Palm Treo 755p and Plucker to carry additional data. Plucker, as an HTML reader, does a great job and with the 2GB memory on my phone, I don't have to worry about how much detail I download. With the increased file size (800 characters) in the comments field on the PN-20, I will not rely on the Treo as much, but it is still nice to have the last 5 logs available to look at and then, if I find a break in caching, I can go to gc.com with the Treo and log some finds. Since I always have the Treo anyway, I will continue to use it to some extent.

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...Currently (but on their list, I believe), Topo 7 does not pick up the cache size (micro, small, etc.), which I like to see. If the cache owner does not put it in the comments/descriptive info, I prefer to manually edit this into the comment field.

 

In so doing, I'm out of the house without paper! :D

 

I am still using my Palm Treo 755p and Plucker to carry additional data. Plucker, as an HTML reader, does a great job and with the 2GB memory on my phone, I don't have to worry about how much detail I download. With the increased file size (800 characters) in the comments field on the PN-20, I will not rely on the Treo as much, but it is still nice to have the last 5 logs available to look at and then, if I find a break in caching, I can go to gc.com with the Treo and log some finds. Since I always have the Treo anyway, I will continue to use it to some extent.

I appreciate the having the last 5 logs available. One can see that the cache is most likely still there and not muggled.

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The PN-20 is on the way $352.00 travel kit and I ordered a case with it. I am trying to find the unlock code to the explorist 500 for the maps so I can sell it if I like the PN-20, I have high hopes. What I do like is every one I have talked to there speaks english... Darn that is good. Talked to Magellan people today to help me get the code and I just got tired will call back tomorrow.

 

GSAK I have down load the lastest ver. so I can get the macro.

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my pn-20 is on the way also. ordered today! cant come fast enough for me. 299.95 with free shipping! cant beat that. i have been following the thread here an also on the Delorme forms. sure looking froward to it. thanks to all you folks for some valuable info.

Edited by ricstone
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When the units come in be sure to check the firmware version and do any update that is required....is not unusual for units to be shipped with an older firmware version since V 1.3 was so recent and V 1.4 is due for release in February(?) The Topo 7 comes with firmware V 1.3 but when I installed T7, for some reason the firmware update was not passed on to the PN-20 so I re-ran the update and it went fine the second time. If you have any questions, just ask in the DeLorme forum...tons of help there from users and DeLorme staff.

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As an additional note, you might want to check on the Delorme forum for a sticky that talks about removing the sd card. I guess the way in which it unlocks is unusual and a good number of people have broken a tab off in doing it wrong. They explain how to do it properly. It' supposed to be easy once you understand how to do it, it's just different than most people are used to. I will let you know how it goes for us tomorrow.....but just incase you might want to read it before you try it on yours.

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I guess the way in which it unlocks is unusual and a good number of people have broken a tab off in doing it wrong.

Just remember to push down on the SD card latch tab, don't pry up on it... let us know if you have any questions. It seems like the forum posters here and at the DeLorme forum know more about the device than we do now... you'll be in good hands if you have any questions!

 

Chip Noble

Team DeLorme

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Chip, no way we know more about it than you guys, but collectively we have given it a run for its money and your support has been fantastic when we reach out. The device is great and gets better with each update. I have been around since AAA Map 'n' Go and with the support we get from DeLorme, I will be around a lot longer.--Gareth

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Chip: I would like you to pass along a huge thank you to everyone at Delorme. I've called many times over the last month with different questions and every time the Delorme employees have been incredibly nice and helpful. Living in Maine must be a blast because everyone seemed to be in a great mood and willing to do anything they could to help. Delorme has some stellar customer service, and it's something you all should be very proud of! We're looking forward to our new GPSr and to more products in the future!

 

Additionally, I tried to edit my post above, but I guess it has been too long and it won't let me. You CAN NOT connect any GPS to your computer and get it to track. The new Colorado will not do this function. The Garmin tech told us this to begin with, but you also don't have the software to add to your computer. Secondly, the Colorado owners can't get the unit out of mass storage mode when they hook it to their computer. I haven't tried it with my Magellan, but I'm pretty sure I can't do it with it either. I didn't try it when we had our Triton, so I can't comment on it......but then again nothing worked on it so for all intensive purposes, it can't either.

Edited by elmuyloco5
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I received my PN-20 today. Can someone please tell me how to get it to do driving directions? I want to load some caches in and I want it to give me directions to them. I have tried and it keeps telling routing failed.

Your PN-20 comes pre-loaded with the World Base map. In addition to the world base map you need to load Regional Maps for your area (in Topo7, hit the exchange button and they will be listed on the left side).

You then need to "cut" the more detailed maps in the Handheld Exchange Tab and then load that to your PN-20. If you don't load the Regional Maps, the PN-20 will not auto route on roads.

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I received my PN-20 today. Can someone please tell me how to get it to do driving directions? I want to load some caches in and I want it to give me directions to them. I have tried and it keeps telling routing failed.

DW,

 

You might also want to check in over here:

http://forums.delorme.com/viewforum.php?f=90

with PN-20 specific questions as there are more folks reading and helping than here. Ben, Embra, Chip and I also read there regularly.

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I am able to mark the caches as found both on the Treo and on my 60CSX and find the next closest cache. [A feature prominently lacking on the Delorme].

 

Don't get me wrong the Delorme unit is a nice feature packed unit with decent enough maps. For power cachers not being able to mark your finds is a severe drawback in my opinion.

 

Currently you cannot mark caches as found with the Colorado either.

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