Helvellyn Danger

[+PopUpPirate]

Tragic news at Helvellyn. Someone has been blown off Striding Edge, and its not the only fatality there this week.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cumbria/7185720.stm

 

Might be worth disabling the caches there for a while?

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/nearest.asp...p;lon=-3.015083

[+Moote]

Why disable a cache because of this, surely just common sense and judging your ability is all which is required. I have been up many mountains both UK and in Europe, and I always take a risk whatever the weather, but I know my limitations and skills.

 

If you look at the various UK mountain rescue websites, you will see the stats of deaths in open country, many near caches, it is not a reason to stop people doing the sports / hobbies they like. Education in mountain craft is what is required.

Edited January 14, 2008 by Moote

[lakeuk]

Tragic accidents close together probable down to a freak of nature, but not a reason to temporary disable the cache.

 

As with any outdoor activity you weigh up the risks, weather conditions, what equipment you need before you set out and stick to what you're capable with.

 

Personally I wouldn't go up Helvellyn at this time of year, but that's because I have no experience of ice walking and none of special equipment that any senseable person would use.

 

Moote - you need a better name for your 'Working Title' (GCVY6H) cache

[+scottpa100]

I agree that the caches should not be disabled either. Otherwise I'd be disabling my cache on Snowdon 2 or 3 times a year!

[Lactodorum]

Why disable a cache because of this, surely just common sense and judging your ability is all which is required.

I agree with Moote, common sense is all that's needed in circumstances such as these.

[+Primitive Person]

I agree with the other posters here - there's no reason to disable. You're entirely responsible for your own safety when out caching - the cache setters are not. If you get somewhere and feel unsafe in any shape or form, get the hell out.

 

The only responsibility cache setters have - and this is more an arse-covering exercise than anything else - is to warn of any specific hazards cache seekers might come across. But...it's up to the seeker to heed (or not) as they see fit. And bad weather is a generic thing completely beyond the control of a cache setter.

 

Most importantly, know your strengths, weaknesses and skills - and don't do anything beyond those things.

 

Lee

[+Wadders]

A tragedy indeed, I once tried to do Helvellyn on my own whilst the wife and daughter waited in the car at the road. Took me a while to get to the top , the weather was awfull, it was raining and the clouds were closing in and the wind was picking up too. I heard rocks falling nearby just as i reached the top of the Comb crags 0.85 of hard climbing and still 1.2 miles to the cache!

That was enough for me, took the decision that it wasn't within my comfort zone any more and the risk for the "plastic box" wasn't worth carrying on even though the hardest part was done. .

 

It is down to the individual to decide. Let them.

 

Wadders

 

Edited to add............................I will be back though!!!

Edited January 14, 2008 by Wadders

[+The HERB5]

Why disable a cache because of this,

Just because it's disabled doesn't stop you, the box is still there.

Maybe someone should go up there and remove the box to stop someone going up there.

[+Happy Humphrey]

The BBC report is quite inaccurate, according to eye-witnesses. The person killed was experienced in the mountains by all accounts, and it sounds like it was an unfortunate accident involving the cornice on the summit ridge (and not on Striding Edge as reported). I suspect that the inexperienced would normally be put off by the conditions ahead before getting into too perilous a position, but not everyone is ill-equipped;

 

Photo from the weekend on Helvellyn

[+Kryten]

Some cachers in Scotland increase the terrain level of their mountain caches to 5 for the winter period. This should at least cause people to relaise that they may be getting into something more extreme than usual.

[+Von-Horst]

...this should at least cause people to relaise that they may be getting into something more extreme than usual.

 

If HUGE amounts of snow and ice don't make people realise that they are getting into something more extreme than usual then I doubt if a couple of little stars will do the trick

[+Cache U Nutter]

...this should at least cause people to relaise that they may be getting into something more extreme than usual.

 

If HUGE amounts of snow and ice don't make people realise that they are getting into something more extreme than usual then I doubt if a couple of little stars will do the trick

 

Agree.

In the early 1980's I planned to hitch up to N.Wales from Sussex for a long weekends hill walking.

There had been some bad weather reports on the hills with the media reporting that the police were turning people away from climbing up Snowdon as there had been 3 deaths that week owing to accidents.

 

However the weather report showed high pressure and despite Mothers protestations I went for it and had probably had the best few days Winter mountaineering in Wales ever.

The Snowdon Horseshoe was Comparable to the Alps with a sunny blue sky, and hard frozen snow even at Peny pass crampons used up and around everwhere.

Similar thing happening in the Lakes with the media having no idea at all about mountaineering.

Experience and good equipment is all that is needed and the only plus point about negative media publicity is that it clears the mountains and valleys of the 'tourists' which are the bane of all walkers and climbers in this area!

 

[+JeremyR]

the only plus point about negative media publicity is that it clears the mountains and valleys of the 'tourists' which are the bane of all walkers and climbers in this area!

I don't think it was negative publicity, I think what you said about 'tourists' was exactly what Mountain Rescue and the media were trying to achieve. They know full well that they're never going to stop experienced and capable people heading out in these kinds of conditions but they can use the media to try and put off inexperienced people who think "how hard can it be..." and then get themselves into trouble.

[+Cache U Nutter]

the only plus point about negative media publicity is that it clears the mountains and valleys of the 'tourists' which are the bane of all walkers and climbers in this area!

I don't think it was negative publicity, I think what you said about 'tourists' was exactly what Mountain Rescue and the media were trying to achieve. They know full well that they're never going to stop experienced and capable people heading out in these kinds of conditions but they can use the media to try and put off inexperienced people who think "how hard can it be..." and then get themselves into trouble.

 

could'nt agree more, but it makes those who do go up in the hills to be irresponsible, unsociable yobs. [now that may well apply but for other reasons!]

I have worked with mountain rescue teams [R.A.F Valley] in the past and i do think you are correct about them putting out a message that ends up stoping inexperiencd and experienced people going up in the hills in bad conditions. It is usually however only to answer the medias direct questions concerning casualties.

Maybe things have changed now as it was at least 20 years ago and Snowdon had only just had it's first ascent! )

That said, compared with say 25 years ago most have now got the message and they seem to carrying the correct sort of equipment and know how to use it!

GPS and mobile phones are great on the mountains unless they are misused [i.e phoning for help at the top as they are tired!]

[+stonefielders]

I was up Scafell Pike & Great Gable at the weekend in the snow & mist

You only need to look at the quantity of logs after October to see that most cachers - & walkers - don't tend to venture out during winter.

 

You're already freezing then have to spend 10 mins clearing the snow & wrenching the frozen rocks apart to uncover the cache then write in the log with blue fingers. Not for everyone...

[Lactodorum]

There again, having a cache in such a remote location can have its benefits.

[+The Blorenges]

Good geocaching-related story. Thanks for the link.

 

MrsB

[+Black Pig & the Piglets]

Why disable a cache because of this, surely just common sense and judging your ability is all which is required. I have been up many mountains both UK and in Europe, and I always take a risk whatever the weather, but I know my limitations and skills.

 

So there's no way that you would object to this then? GCVXC5

[+Von-Horst]

Why disable a cache because of this, surely just common sense and judging your ability is all which is required. I have been up many mountains both UK and in Europe, and I always take a risk whatever the weather, but I know my limitations and skills.

 

So there's no way that you would object to this then? GCVXC5

 

Nope.

 

The listing makes it clear that this is a tricky cache requiring skills, equipment and brave pills.

 

Don't see any grounds upon which to object.

[+Alibags]

So... if I was to walk across the M1 in order to access a cache by a junction, and got run over and killed, the cache should be archived because it's obviously dangerous? God/s help us if we ever end up in a situation where all caches have to be hidden inside padded cells because we might injure ourselves doing them! This doesn't mean I don't think that there are good and valid cases where caches should be archived for cachers or others safety, but if a cache is up a mountain then people should use their common sense to judge if they have sufficient skill and preparation to attempt it.

 

Or, to put it another way... Nothing to do with caching. Some poor individual gets killed in the mountains. Lets BAN all access to the mountains as it's obviously dangerous!!

 

I used to go ice climbing up by Hellvellyn and one particular weekend when the snow got a bit too heavy, we decided to not go up a particular gulley but head into Penrith instead. Later that day, my climbing club was involved in rescuing three individuals who had thought it was okay in their judgement, got avalanched down the mountainside and had to be stretchered out with serious injuries.

 

As long as the cache does not say 'suitable for people with no experience to do at all times of the year wearing flip flops and a t shirt' I don't see that there's an issue. I find that I agree with Moote (now I think I need a lie down in a darkened room!! )

[+Black Pig & the Piglets]

 

Nope.

 

The listing makes it clear that this is a tricky cache requiring skills, equipment and brave pills.

 

Don't see any grounds upon which to object.

 

Exactly! Neither did I & many others, but someone did & got one of the best caches around archived.

[+PopUpPirate]

Nice healthy discussion Not that I was advocating them being disabled, more like seeing what people's opinions was on the matter