Palm T|X w/ Bluetooth GPSr

[MossJenks722]

Hi all,

 

I'm ordinarily pretty good at searching online forums but just can't seem to find the answers to my questions here! So here goes:

 

I recently had my backpack stolen and it contained both my GPS and my PDA. I'm thinking about replacing them both with one unit and wanted to know your thoughts about how well it would work.

 

Instead of asking specific questions - now that I think of it I'm not sure exactly what specific questions I have - let me lay out the scenarios I am thinking of an invite y'all to comment.

 

What I'm thinking of is a Palm T|X with a Bluetooth GPSr. I believe from things I've read in the past (and can't find now, darn it!) that there is open source mapping software I can use to emulate (and hopefully one-up) the functionality of my old Garmin eTrex Vista. Load maps and caches and then let it tell me how close I am to the cache, check out the terrain, etc. This is realistic, right? Anybody doing this with success? The other thing I like about this imaginary scenario is being able to stow the PDA away safely when on the move but still be able to create tracks. e.g Stow the Palm in a pocket or in my backpack, then strap the GPSr to the top of my backpack where it has a nice clear view of the sky.

 

I've searched around enough to find a lot of paperless caching info and I have found two issues that people argue about that I have already thought of. 1) Operating system: I've used the Palm OS a lot in the past and greatly prefer it to Windows-whatever. I don't think there are any other real options anymore, are there? 2) Durability - I'm used to taking delicate equipment into the field so I'm not worried about this. I promise I won't be back here next month b!tching about how I dropped my new Palm T|X into a lake and it died!

 

So - do you think this setup will work well for me for caching? Also - can anybody recommend a GPSr and/or point me to a page listing what Bluetooth GPSr units would be compatible with a Palm T|X? I found this page full of them:

 

http://www.buygpsnow.com/bluetooth-gps_9.aspx

 

Any of these look good? Are these units typically waterproof?

 

Any and all comments/suggestions greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks in Advance,

 

Chris

[+Rebes]

Hi Chris,

 

What you describe is almost identical to my situation. I just recently got into geocaching, but I've had a Palm TX for about a year now (Great product, highly recommend it!).

 

Just last month, I ordered a Solar Bluetooth GPSr from http://www.blipgear.com/ ... The owner of the eBay store (ipMark) that sells these is a well known member of the pda community at Brighthand (www.brighthand.com) and is very reliable.

 

The GPSr itself has worked perfectly from the start... Connects to the TX quickly, acquires satellites in less than a minute when I have good sky view, and seems to track dead on.

 

On the software side, I've used it with Tom Tom 6 for street navigation, Cetus GPS for general navigation (No maps), Cachemate/GSAK for grabbing and viewing caches (Paperless caching), and Pathaway for map enabled navigation. Pathaway is an amazing piece of software...

 

Of those, the only one that is free is Cetus... If you don't want to spend any extra after getting the TX and the GPSr, you could get away with using JUST CetusGPS for locating caches, and doing everything on paper...

 

I also tried another free GPS app called CotusGPS (sp??) and had some problems with it causing my TX to reset.

 

To sum it up, I strongly recommend ipMark's Solar Bluetooth GPSr at BlipGear, and I highly recommand Cachemate/Pathaway for caching.

 

R!

[+RRLover]

Hi Chris,

 

What you describe is almost identical to my situation. I just recently got into geocaching, but I've had a Palm TX for about a year now (Great product, highly recommend it!).

 

Just last month, I ordered a Solar Bluetooth GPSr from http://www.blipgear.com/ ... The owner of the eBay store (ipMark) that sells these is a well known member of the pda community at Brighthand (www.brighthand.com) and is very reliable.

 

The GPSr itself has worked perfectly from the start... Connects to the TX quickly, acquires satellites in less than a minute when I have good sky view, and seems to track dead on.

 

On the software side, I've used it with Tom Tom 6 for street navigation, Cetus GPS for general navigation (No maps), Cachemate/GSAK for grabbing and viewing caches (Paperless caching), and Pathaway for map enabled navigation. Pathaway is an amazing piece of software...

 

Of those, the only one that is free is Cetus... If you don't want to spend any extra after getting the TX and the GPSr, you could get away with using JUST CetusGPS for locating caches, and doing everything on paper...

 

I also tried another free GPS app called CotusGPS (sp??) and had some problems with it causing my TX to reset.

 

To sum it up, I strongly recommend ipMark's Solar Bluetooth GPSr at BlipGear, and I highly recommand Cachemate/Pathaway for caching.

 

R!

If your main PC is a Windows box, your options abound, Mac on the other hand . . .

 

Norm

[MossJenks722]

I've got an Intel iMac running VMWare so I can work with any x86 OS at home. At work Windows of course....

 

Thanks Rebes - that's just the sort of info I'm looking for! That little GPSr looks pretty sweet. Is it water resistant?

 

Chris

Edited January 12, 2008 by MossJenks722

[+Rebes]

I've got an Intel iMac running VMWare so I can work with any x86 OS at home. At work Windows of course....

 

Thanks Rebes - that's just the sort of info I'm looking for! That little GPSr looks pretty sweet. Is it water resistant?

 

Chris

 

I'm not really sure about water resistance... It seems like it would stand up to a splash or two, but I sure wouldn't put it out in the rain... Personally I'm not too worried about water resistance.

 

You can actually put this GPSr in one pocket, the TX in another pocket, and it tracks you just fine...

 

R

[+JohnTee]

Hi Mossjenks722,

 

Owning a Palm with Bluetooth, I also had considered doing something along these lines . . . until I considered battery life. I can't tell you how long I can run my Palm, even with a low screen brightness, but I can guarantee it's nowhere close to the 18-22 hours my GPS will run on two AA batteries. I know I can run it up to four hours or so listening to MP3's, however, that's with the screen blanking turned on. Turn on Bluetooth and it's going to go even faster. And you still have to put batteries in the Bluetooth GPS device.

 

So, then I considered getting some kind of external battery to run my Palm. Then I reconsidered and stuck with my GPS. Don't get me wrong, I love technology and gadgets and my life would run amuck with them if my wife didn't keep me in check. Using my Palm as a GPS interface device sounded really neat. Just thinking about my Palm and the hassle of making its use practical in the field as a GPS device made me rule it out.

 

So, a VERY loaded CacheMate lives on my Palm and goes out in the field with me as a resource and I'm using a dedicated GPS.

 

Cache On!

 

JohnTee

[+Maingray]

Same as JohnTee. I wouldn't consider using my T|X and BT GPSr as my main caching setup..I use a handheld eTrex for that.

 

The T|X is a good unit but very prone to memory issues. It has plenty of memory but handles it very badly. Google carefully on TomTom / dbcache before you go ahead and buy. I've also tried Garmin's Mobile XT for PalmOS, works great..if you like constantly resetting your Palm / running third party memory apps which are never quite up to par. I've decided that this setup is too clunky to use quickly in the field...nothing quites beating auto-routing to the cache with a handheld mounted on the dash, picking it up and continuing on foot to the cache. I got sick very quickly of resetting the T|X to route to the next cache once I switched out to Cachemate, re-pairing the BT GPSr etc. I keep the palm purely for Cachemate in the field.

Edited January 12, 2008 by Maingray

[+Rebes]

There are several factors to consider...

 

In my case I already had a TX, so price was a factor. To get into Geocaching, all I needed was a $70 Bluetooth GPSr, not a $300+ dash mount, autorouting, full featured GPSr.

 

From a price perspective, if you have a TX already, it would be cheaper to just get a GPSr. If you don't have a TX, you might be better to get a full featured GPSr that can do road auto routing, that you can load maps into, and that has a good battery life. Then, look on eBay and get an older Palm just to use for Cachemate (Isn't it possible with some Palms to send waypoints across to some GPSr's? I didn't look into this, but I seem to remember reading it)

 

For convenience, again it's a trade off. Having everything in one place on a TX is handy... You can flip between the different applications, and even use copy/paste to get your waypoints between them. However, with a GPSr that is already taken care of. Hard to say on this one, they both have their convenience points. Where this starts to lean towards the TX is if you wanted to get the TX anyways for other things, such as the PIM capabilities, wireless internet/email, games, listening to music, or watching videos. I would like to mention though, that I have never had Cachemate, Pathaway, or CetusGPS crash or require a reset... I can switch between them at will. The ONLY program that has been a problem is Tomtom6... Before starting it, I often have to reset my Palm, otherwise I get the dbcache error. I've heard this can be solved with a program called "Uncache", but I haven't tried it myself yet (Will try it soon though!). BUT, here's the thing... If you are in the USA, you might be better off to avoid TomTom6 entirely, and go with Emtac Navigator... It gets far better reviews, and doesn't suffer from the dbcache error that TT6 gets. Unfortunately, It's only good in the USA, and I'm in Canada, so that wasn't even an option (sigh).

 

Next, for battery life, Maingray and JohnTee make VERY good points. If you are going to go off the beaten path (hiking) and want whatever you take with you to last the trip, the Palm TX probably is not going to do it. You might get 6 to 12 hours out of it with light to medium usage. If you don't have access to power, this is going to be a problem. The Bluetooth GPSr on the other hand would be fine... the one I got lasts 20 to 30 hours (depending on light) and can recharge if just left in sunlight. You would probably be better off in this case with an all-in-one unit that has 20+ hours battery life. Personally, I can't see myself going on 4+ hour long cache sessions where I don't return to my car, and I have a charger for both the TX and the GPSr in the car, so it's a non-issue for me. Again, your needs will make this decision.

 

Edit: Let me clear one thing up... If I was in your situation, and didn't need a TX for other things besides Geocaching, I probably would buy a dedicated GPSr that can be placed in the car, and pulled out of the cradle for hiking. I would make sure that I could load maps and waypoints into it, and I would find a cheap (less than $50) Palm on eBay to use with Cachemate... It does make a little more sense to go that route, rather than getting a TX if you aren't planning on using the other features of the TX.

 

R!

Edited January 12, 2008 by Rebes

[+Miragee]

<snip>

 

If I was in your situation, and didn't need a TX for other things besides Geocaching, I probably would buy a dedicated GPSr that can be placed in the car, and pulled out of the cradle for hiking. I would make sure that I could load maps and waypoints into it, and I would find a cheap (less than $50) Palm on eBay to use with Cachemate... It does make a little more sense to go that route, rather than getting a TX if you aren't planning on using the other features of the TX.

 

R!

Can I say "Ditto." A friend has the TX and it is sure hard to read in bright sunlight, compared to my Palm m 500 or m515. And, yesterday, prior to heading out on a hike, I got the "Battery Low" error on my m515. I had not put in in the cradle for a few days, forgetting it uses up the battery much faster than my Palm m500 does.

 

My Vista HCx, with rechargeable "Hybrid" Rayovac batteries, worked for the entire distance of the hike. That small GPS unit has auto-routing maps on it, as well as Topo maps. I carry a spare pair of AA batteries with me, so I am set for even the longest of caching adventures that sometimes continue into the night.

 

Since I usually have a pack with all sorts of miscellaneous items in it including food and water, carrying my PDA in it as one extra item is not a consideration for me. I carry the GPS unit in my hand so I can watch my progress on the map screen, or refer to the Trip Computer to see how far I have traveled. Sometimes I don't have to use the Palm at all, so it stays safely tucked away. A single raindrop on the screen, if it gets inside the PDA, can render it useless.

[+TrailGators]

Hi all,

 

I'm ordinarily pretty good at searching online forums but just can't seem to find the answers to my questions here! So here goes:

 

I recently had my backpack stolen and it contained both my GPS and my PDA. I'm thinking about replacing them both with one unit and wanted to know your thoughts about how well it would work.

 

Instead of asking specific questions - now that I think of it I'm not sure exactly what specific questions I have - let me lay out the scenarios I am thinking of an invite y'all to comment.

 

What I'm thinking of is a Palm T|X with a Bluetooth GPSr. I believe from things I've read in the past (and can't find now, darn it!) that there is open source mapping software I can use to emulate (and hopefully one-up) the functionality of my old Garmin eTrex Vista. Load maps and caches and then let it tell me how close I am to the cache, check out the terrain, etc. This is realistic, right? Anybody doing this with success? The other thing I like about this imaginary scenario is being able to stow the PDA away safely when on the move but still be able to create tracks. e.g Stow the Palm in a pocket or in my backpack, then strap the GPSr to the top of my backpack where it has a nice clear view of the sky.

 

I've searched around enough to find a lot of paperless caching info and I have found two issues that people argue about that I have already thought of. 1) Operating system: I've used the Palm OS a lot in the past and greatly prefer it to Windows-whatever. I don't think there are any other real options anymore, are there? 2) Durability - I'm used to taking delicate equipment into the field so I'm not worried about this. I promise I won't be back here next month b!tching about how I dropped my new Palm T|X into a lake and it died!

 

So - do you think this setup will work well for me for caching? Also - can anybody recommend a GPSr and/or point me to a page listing what Bluetooth GPSr units would be compatible with a Palm T|X? I found this page full of them:

 

http://www.buygpsnow.com/bluetooth-gps_9.aspx

 

Any of these look good? Are these units typically waterproof?

 

Any and all comments/suggestions greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks in Advance,

 

Chris

The new Garmin Colorado lets you load everything into the GPS so you don't need a Palm. It also supports the new Wherigo game.

[MossJenks722]

Thanks for all the advice, guys.

 

I do need to replace my PDA so I'll be buying one anyway. I guess I don't need all the bells and whistles of the T|X since my old one was an ancient Palm Vx! But I think I'm going for it anyway. I found a great deal on a T|X so it wasn't all that much more than older or simpler units.

 

So I'm going to go ahead and spring for a Bluetooth GPSr and give it a go. Thankfully most of the arguments against don't hurt me too bad. I generally don't "believe" in using a GPS for primary navigation - I'm old-fashioned and don't feel comfortable without using my own sense of direction plus maps and landmarks. My use of GPS in the backcountry has been in the past more to just double-check that I am where I think I am on a map. So I tend to use it in small bursts so battery life should be OK.

 

I won't be using it for street navigation. Just don't really like it. My wife's TomTom is kinda neat but I always feel disconnected just following it rather than figuring out on my own where I'm going.

 

I'll let you know how it goes...

 

Chris

 

edit: Garmin Colorado WAY to rich for me. I'm not that serious about my caching and wouldn't use all the features anyhow.

Edited January 14, 2008 by MossJenks722

[+jtrump]

I recently tried to go with the Palm TX using the NG Topo maps. Word of caution, the Palm software for the NG Topo maps does not work very well at all. You can't store the maps on an external card, which means you are limited in size. Also, the menu icons would not show up for me until I clicked on them, which was always a fun time since I wasn't sure which icon I was clicking on. Finally, the software lets you export multiple levels of the map into one file, but the software would only display the most detailed level, which made it difficult to get a feel for where I was looking.

 

If you are hoping to use the NG Topo maps as I was, I would recommend staying away from using a Palm. The software works much better on a Windows Mobile PDA and they allow you to store the maps on an external card. All of the issues I had on the Palm were not present on a Windows Mobile PDA, which was a let down since the Palm has a much better screen on it.

[MossJenks722]

Thanks for the heads up on the NG maps. I hear pretty mixed reviews of that product.

 

Pathaway looks pretty freakin' awesome. Is getting maps into it tough to learn? I'm not concerned I couldn't figure out the technical steps - I'm an Engineer - but as a father of two young ones I just don't have a lot of time!

 

Thanks again,

 

C

[+Rebes]

Thanks for the heads up on the NG maps. I hear pretty mixed reviews of that product.

 

Pathaway looks pretty freakin' awesome. Is getting maps into it tough to learn? I'm not concerned I couldn't figure out the technical steps - I'm an Engineer - but as a father of two young ones I just don't have a lot of time!

 

Thanks again,

 

C

 

Pathaway comes with a Map Manager that runs on your PC... You can import image files into it, then calibrate points on the map...

 

I used it to import a screen-cap and stitch of my entire city at the highest zoom level on google... Calibrated it using readings from Google Earth, and exported the PRC file... copied the PRC file onto my 1 gb card, and Pathaway picks it up perfectly. I'm truly amazed with the accuracy, I can tell which SIDE of the street I'm on when driving down a 4 lane street... On the freeway, it's dead on accurate, I can see which side of the freeway I'm on.

 

I also have been trying another program (Partnered with the makers of Pathaway I believe) called Touratech... with it, I can import Garmin IMG maps, and export them in PRC format for Pathaway already calibrated. Tested on a topo map of my city and it worked great!

 

What I would really like to find is a GOOD google maps exporter, that would let me export an image file of a selected area at a given zoom level... stitching together all those pieces was very time consuming...

 

R!

[MossJenks722]

NICE! I had looked at Touratech on Pathaway's site and wasn't sure if it'd do Garmin maps or not. I know where to get high-res Colorado Topos in IMG format. That's PERFECT!

[+Rebes]

Figured I would post this as a heads up:

 

I've been trying a free program called "Off Flush" that (you guessed it) flushes the dbcache when you turn the TX off. You can set it to flush if the cache is below a certain threshhold. I set mine for 50% and to do a fast flush.

 

Since doing this, I haven't had the dbcache error when starting TomTom 6... As long as my dbcache is above 50% it seems to start without a problem.

 

I know it's a bit of a hokey fix, but I'd rather turn the device off, wait 3 to 5 seconds for the flush to finish (it pops up on the screen), turn the device back on and go safely into TT6, rather than reboot it before starting TT6 each time, which can take 30 seconds to a minute to restart.

 

R!

[+Maingray]

Figured I would post this as a heads up:

 

I've been trying a free program called "Off Flush" that (you guessed it) flushes the dbcache when you turn the TX off. You can set it to flush if the cache is below a certain threshhold. I set mine for 50% and to do a fast flush.

 

Since doing this, I haven't had the dbcache error when starting TomTom 6... As long as my dbcache is above 50% it seems to start without a problem.

 

I know it's a bit of a hokey fix, but I'd rather turn the device off, wait 3 to 5 seconds for the flush to finish (it pops up on the screen), turn the device back on and go safely into TT6, rather than reboot it before starting TT6 each time, which can take 30 seconds to a minute to restart.

 

R!

 

If your reset is that long, take a look at "uncache', ( http://www.palmpowerups.com/news.php ) has a trial and costs about $6 if you like. It lets you define which programs need to be loaded into db memory and can really cut down on 1. reset times and 2. dbcache fragmentation. You might get away with better chance of starting TT6 with that. I don't think the T|X is even listed as being supported by TT6, it has such hokey memory problems, but I've heard people running it OK with a combo of off flush and/or uncache.

 

You might also look for "Meminfo", a little known Palm app they made for Treos which works on the T|X to defragment dbcache and other memort pools quickly. See how it compares to OffFlush. http://mytreo.net/downloads/meminfo,959.html

 

My personal experiences; my beef with using these tools was just having to wait to clear the dbcache each time I wanted to run (in my case) Garmin Mobile XT on the Palm, especially when switching back from Cachemate on the same Palm. CM does a nice job of fragmenting the dbcache too =(, and actually doesnt play nicely with T\X sometimes (try loading >2000 caches without something like uncache running and doing a "nearest cache" search) so running the mapping after that was a no-go. Also, sometimes CM could not search for nearest caches due to a dbcache issue! Argh. Sounds petty but but often I just wanted to get a route and drive to the next cache / address and hated having to do the T|X reset / flush / wait for Bluetooth to get talking again (which sometimes needed a restart of the GPSr) / reload mapping / route. If you wanted to check cache details on CM on the way, you're screwed I went back to the handheld GPS everytime.

Edited January 16, 2008 by Maingray

[+Rebes]

Figured I would post this as a heads up:

 

I've been trying a free program called "Off Flush" that (you guessed it) flushes the dbcache when you turn the TX off. You can set it to flush if the cache is below a certain threshhold. I set mine for 50% and to do a fast flush.

 

Since doing this, I haven't had the dbcache error when starting TomTom 6... As long as my dbcache is above 50% it seems to start without a problem.

 

I know it's a bit of a hokey fix, but I'd rather turn the device off, wait 3 to 5 seconds for the flush to finish (it pops up on the screen), turn the device back on and go safely into TT6, rather than reboot it before starting TT6 each time, which can take 30 seconds to a minute to restart.

 

R!

 

If your reset is that long, take a look at "uncache', ( http://www.palmpowerups.com/news.php ) has a trial and costs about $6 if you like. It lets you define which programs need to be loaded into db memory and can really cut down on 1. reset times and 2. dbcache fragmentation. You might get away with better chance of starting TT6 with that. I don't think the T|X is even listed as being supported by TT6, it has such hokey memory problems, but I've heard people running it OK with a combo of off flush and/or uncache.

 

You might also look for "Meminfo", a little known Palm app they made for Treos which works on the T|X to defragment dbcache and other memort pools quickly. See how it compares to OffFlush. http://mytreo.net/downloads/meminfo,959.html

 

My personal experiences; my beef with using these tools was just having to wait to clear the dbcache each time I wanted to run (in my case) Garmin Mobile XT on the Palm, especially when switching back from Cachemate on the same Palm. CM does a nice job of fragmenting the dbcache too =(, and actually doesnt play nicely with T\X sometimes (try loading >2000 caches without something like uncache running and doing a "nearest cache" search) so running the mapping after that was a no-go. Also, sometimes CM could not search for nearest caches due to a dbcache issue! Argh. Sounds petty but but often I just wanted to get a route and drive to the next cache / address and hated having to do the T|X reset / flush / wait for Bluetooth to get talking again (which sometimes needed a restart of the GPSr) / reload mapping / route. If you wanted to check cache details on CM on the way, you're screwed I went back to the handheld GPS everytime.

 

Hey Maingray, I hear you, it can be pretty frustrating... So far I haven't had a problem with Cachemate (Only about 300 to 500 caches loaded) and with Off flush I'm not having a problem with TT6 either... I have it set up as a DA too, so I can launch it quickly before running TT6, force a cache clear, and then go right into TT6... Takes 3 to 5 seconds and I don't have to reset the TX.

 

I'll give those other programs a try... I had actually trialed Uncache once before, but not with this combination of apps, so my trial on that one is expired. Guess I'm outta luck on that one unless I pay...

 

R

[+Camarilla]

 

What I would really like to find is a GOOD google maps exporter, that would let me export an image file of a selected area at a given zoom level... stitching together all those pieces was very time consuming...

 

R!

 

Here comes the Google map exporter for Pathaway: http://www.iippo.net/jb/mapaway/

It's called MapAway. There are several Bugs, but when you clearly read the FAQ's and the help file it will work.

 

Mapaway automatically exports Maps from Google Maps, calibrates them and converts them into Pathaway file format.

 

By the way, Pathaway has an build in feature to capture google maps and calibrate them automatically. Your PDA needs an Wlan connection or an other connection to the internet.