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NEW BOYSCOUT GEOCOIN


h_mtreasurecache
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hello everyone just a short announcement to let everyone know my boy scout troop has minted an awesome new geocoin design. you can see the pic at my profile .h_mtreasurecache it is an american eagle sewing a tattered american flag o the front with the scout law printed on the reverse side. the asking price on this coinis $ 25.00 SHIPPING IS FREE. WE WILL ALSO PROVIDE YOU WITH A TAX DEDUCTIBLE RECEIPT AS IT WILL BE A DONATION FOR OUR BOYSCOT TROOP . YOU CAN ALSOP SEE THEM AT OUR EBAY STORE CABOYSCOUTTROOP333 (Stire name ) . REMEMBER THIS IS A LIMITED EDITION COIN SO ONLY 100 ARE AVAILAVABLE . THEY ARER SELLING FAST . GREAT FOR COLLECTORS.. THANKS FOR YOUR SUPPORT..

 

ff9c_1.JPG

 

<picture added by moderator>

Edited by Eartha
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I had one comment before but after seeing the coin I need to comment on something else.

 

Plagiarism ~ is the practice of claiming or implying original authorship of someone else's written or creative work, in whole or in part, into one's own without adequate acknowledgement.

 

I belive that this has been done on this coin, knowingly or unknowingly. My design has been out for some time and C&P spent many months getting the right to use all the BSA images and wording. Now whoever designed this coin did so, I belive, after seeing my design and copiying it. You can not help but see the back is identical and even though the front is not identical the symbology is very similar, eagle and, red, white & blue.

 

Here are images of the coins for you to see, you will understand what I mean:

 

My design (on trackable version, tracking words are under the area to engrave):

scouting-f.jpgscouting-b.jpg

 

Troop 333 design:

ff9c_1.JPG

 

 

I ask that someone from Troop 333 contact me in the regards to the use of my idea and artwork.

 

Thank You,

Mike

Edited by Atwell Family
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I had one comment before but after seeing the coin I need to comment on something else.

 

Plagiarism ~ is the practice of claiming or implying original authorship of someone else's written or creative work, in whole or in part, into one's own without adequate acknowledgement.

 

I belive that this has been done on this coin, knowingly or unknowingly. My design has been out for some time and C&P spent many months getting the right to use all the BSA images and wording. Now whoever designed this coin did so, I belive, after seeing my design and copiying it. You can not help but see the back is identical and even though the front is not identical the symbology is very similar, eagle and, red, white & blue.

I totally agree, the back of the Troop 333 coin is the same as what was minted by Atwell Family and C&P. Sorry to see something like this happen, what kind of message does this send to the boys, that you can copy someone elses design and make a profit from it? Sad.

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Why don't you contact them directly instead of hashing it out in the forums. You don't do Scouting any good by making your comments public here in the forums Atwell Family.

 

You make a good point. However, he has asked that someone from the unit contact him and hopefully they will. I also agree that it would be good if they resolve the issue on their own and not here, although I don't necessarily think it reflects poorly on the program.

 

And as the designer, I think he has the right to defend his design. If someone posts a coin that has a potential issue such as this people have a right to know. TMOCM said it well - what does this say to the youth in Troop 333 and elsewhere?

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Why don't you contact them directly instead of hashing it out in the forums. You don't do Scouting any good by making your comments public here in the forums Atwell Family.

I wanted to let others know of the issue. But I have also sent a message by means of geocaching.com as well as the ebay auction.

 

I believe the designer should have a chance to defend his design, but not to accuse smeone of plagiarism before giving that person the chance to respond.
Sorry for accusing first, I was just so shocked when I saw theat the design was identical.
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The coins are made, they need to be sold, the boys need to go to camp. Disagreeing with post #9, the maker of this coin is not profiting, they are fundraising.

At this point the "damage" is done. They could apologize and give credit to the designer of the back of the coin, and change the banner on their next coin.

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The coins are made, they need to be sold, the boys need to go to camp. Disagreeing with post #9, the maker of this coin is not profiting, they are fundraising.

At this point the "damage" is done. They could apologize and give credit to the designer of the back of the coin, and change the banner on their next coin.

Last comment until I hear from Troop 333.

 

So we are now teaching scouts it is ok to steal as long as you don't get caught to early, and then also if you are not keeping the funds for yourself. Wow, not what I learned before becoming am Eagle Scout myself.

 

As for profit. A coin cost far less than $25 to make so the difference is profit. They are speading that profit to go to camp. All fundraising involves profit otherwise you wouldn't be able to raise funds.

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As I see it you did more of a copy job on the front the he did of your coin and the last time I read it, I don't seem to have seen your name as the author of the scout law. If you think they stole your work, then I would have to ask who's work did you copy. I mean get real, Scouts, eagles and American flags tend to all go together. Your not the first to come up with that idea.

Eaglebadge.gif

 

timeless-values.gif

 

79027_small.jpg

 

79025_small.jpg

 

Scouting.jpg

 

Some one in the past has even thought of coloring the fleur

scouts_logo.jpg

 

This could go on and on, Don't get me wrong. Your coin looks great and I would love one. But my no means is the art work on it origanal.

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first off i will tell you i am sorry for any problems this may have caused. Now i will address your other issues. at first you mention that you are worried that we may get into trouble on using scouting logos.i was informed by our de. that the council was not cracking down on usage of scout logos etc until january 2008. these coins were minted and designed in 2007. so we are o.k. there.as far plagarism and by the way thank you for putting the definition out there for everyone. you did not design any of the boyscout law oath etc. as you can see ebery design has been used before . also i have not had a chance to change it here but the ebay site price was changed as of 12/11/07 9:p.m my time.also i have recieved emails from aaron charles asking why i may have copied their coin design. To answer that i will say the eagle is the national bird . when you go to google and click on bald eagle clipart look and see there are thousands of designs. also when you click on the scout law the same thing applies.our coin designs are similar but different. I looked on your website and noticed you are not selling this 1/2 of the design (sold OUT). Now as far as HONESTY how dare you lean towards what i am teaching boy scouts under my guidance . these coins are designed for one purpose only to fund not just a camp but a very expensive hiking prgram costing these boys at a minimum of $1,500.00 per person for one week.teaching these boys how to adapt and bne better men. I know they will get more out if this and will be taught bettter than some. A scout is thrifty . someone mentioned that. we do not mean to rob anyone. noone is tied to a pen or credit card and forced to purchase a coin . the price was set by myself and i will gladly sell a coin to anyone that is on forum except to the people that have been negative on this forum. do not attempt to go on our scout troop sore and disrupt it because ebay as well as geocaching will take care of that for me. mr atwell however i will sell you a coin if you are interested . one more thing you have caused a disturbance likened to what the press has done lately in the news about boyscouts getting lost or even hurt at events .I believe if you knew anything about the scouting program you would or should have approached this in a different manner. thecoins are currently selling for 20.00 plus shipping. i willbe posting a copy of this shortly so i hope it willend now. Also i don't know if you notice the license plate design you have on you r website may not be yours due to the fact there are 50 different ones out ther that may be just about the same idea as yours. Geocaching is my hobby as well as scouting they are both big parts of my life. good luck in yours.

 

h_mtreasurecache(mark)

 

anyone reading this may email me for info on how to buy these coins for 15.00 plus shipping. thank you for all of the great publicity i will be recieving on line. incidentally mr. atwell i only made 100 of these and never intended to go a second round. but who knows .

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It is one thing if a member of some local scout that I know came to my door and said he was taking part in a fundraiser for some scouting related educational activity. I've certainly purchased more boxes of girl scout cookies and tins of boy scout popcorn than I can count!

 

However, taking it to the impersonal and global level and expecting the same level of generosity from folks who have never even heard about your particular scout troup does seem to be a bit of a stretch. How are the scouts that are benefiting from the sale of this coin learning ANYTHING about fundraising? If it doesn't involve blood, sweat or tears, what have they learned?

 

A fundraising effort should be seriously hard work for the scouts benefiting from the sales of whatever merchandise, they shouldn't merely get the cash from someone else's efforts. Unless that is the work ethic you are wishing them to learn.

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It sounds like Mtreasurecache has apologized. I do know what can be done further to resolve anything.

 

The front of the two coins in question are way different. No one cacher owns the right to an eagle or a Scout coin. I think accusing one of stealing a design is uncalled for when you can see the similarities in Scout eagles and insignia in a prior post.

The backs of the two coins are very similar in layout. However I have a bronze Scout coin about 15 years old that has the Scout oath on one side, and the other has the Scout Law and a Fleur.

 

As a 20 year Scouter (adult Scout Leader) I have learned to put the welfare of Scouts before any adult or their egos. If I was the first to design a Scout Geocoin, I would say: have at it, use it, copy it to benefit Scouts and Scouting. The new coin is made to benefit a Troop not "personal" profit. I hope that past and future coins have a similar purpose.

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I would like to point out that if it is costing $1500.00 per boy, per week, and there were only 100 coins made, at $20.00 each, it hardly seems worth the effort.

With the costs of the coins subtracted, it looks like this may help send 1 boy to hike for the week.

 

The similarities in design aside, there are only so many ways you can present the scout law, I would think it was a coincidence, that in the end will not effect sales of either coin.

 

Good luck to all involved with their respective sales.

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It sounds like Mtreasurecache has apologized. I do know what can be done further to resolve anything.

 

The front of the two coins in question are way different. No one cacher owns the right to an eagle or a Scout coin. I think accusing one of stealing a design is uncalled for when you can see the similarities in Scout eagles and insignia in a prior post.

The backs of the two coins are very similar in layout. However I have a bronze Scout coin about 15 years old that has the Scout oath on one side, and the other has the Scout Law and a Fleur.

 

As a 20 year Scouter (adult Scout Leader) I have learned to put the welfare of Scouts before any adult or their egos. If I was the first to design a Scout Geocoin, I would say: have at it, use it, copy it to benefit Scouts and Scouting. The new coin is made to benefit a Troop not "personal" profit. I hope that past and future coins have a similar purpose.

I have read through this and was on the fence until reading this post! You are right, as scouts, who'd care if another scout used a design similar to someone else's? Since the first coin maker doesn't own the inscription on the back, it's fair play IMHO...and if I had made the first coin, I'd be honored others would copy my work...means they liked it!! I'd also be happy others could use and raise money from the design. Hey, if I had made it and you had contacted me about it, I'd have let you use my die to help save the money so more funds could be raised!! Just MHO!

 

Rod

 

I'd add that there are some who look down on this method of raising funds. Well, in today's world, money is hard to come by and people will only buy so many boxes of cookies or tins of popcorn! I applaude your branching out like this. I would ALSO suggest you follow what the GS are doing which is awarding badges for GPS usage, orienteering and Geocaching. I have taught a few troops and will be teaching more very soon. The girls love it, the leaders love it and it's GREAT to see our next generation of cachers learning early!! Good luck!

Edited by Rockin Roddy
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<snip> A scout is thrifty . someone mentioned that. we do not mean to rob anyone. noone is tied to a pen or credit card and forced to purchase a coin . <snip>

 

I believe that was me.

 

To be clear - I NEVER intended for the meaning of that post to be interpreted that way. Between my father, my son, and me we have over 100 years in the program. I'm pretty sure I know what Thrift means as it relates to Scouting. I do NOT think you are robbing anyone. I meant that I watch my spending and the cost of the coin is more than I particularly want to pay. I apologize for not proof reading and clarifying my original post.

 

I fully support selling coins as a fundraising opportunity and have some of the Hoxie Scout and Crew 4485 coins in my collection. If I recall each of those cost less than $12 delivered and they sold pretty well. I wish your troop equal or better success in their fundraising efforts.

 

Regarding the coin design, I think some folks are confusing the design with the content. I don't want to speak for Atwell (or anyone else), but I can see his point. The back of the coins looks darn near identical - the same font is used, a scroll for the tracking number, and two R/W/B fleurs in the same positions. Sure, it may be a simple coincidence. But if I saw something so close to my design on another coin I'd question it also. In a previous post there are images of a lot of different designs using the same or similar content - but they are designed differently. It's good to hear that your council doesn't have a problem with your use of the images. That can save a lot of headaches and allow you to focus on the selling of your coins. Some councils - and National - do have issues with the use of their images even for unit use. I think Atwell was only trying to offer some advice based on his learnings from the making of his coin.

 

As I said earlier, I hope you guys get it worked out and you're successful in raising money for your unit.

 

YiS

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It sounds like Mtreasurecache has apologized.

 

I can hardly understand what he has written as the grammar, punctuation and spelling are so poor.

 

Is Mtreasurecache a Scout Leader or a Scout?

 

And the back design is identical. No parsing, no excuses.

 

BTW, I was a Scout for nine years.

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It sounds like Mtreasurecache has apologized.

 

I can hardly understand what he has written as the grammar, punctuation and spelling are so poor.

 

Is Mtreasurecache a Scout Leader or a Scout?

 

And the back design is identical. No parsing, no excuses.

 

BTW, I was a Scout for nine years.

 

I read it just fine...could have been a bit better, but not going to belittle him for this.

 

How do you know this same design isn't on the back of some scout material and it was taken from there? Easy to jump to conclusions...

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I think selling a coin to help raise funds for a troop is a great idea! And, as has been stated many times before, if you don't like the price don't buy the coin. If you think it's a worthy cause - go for it.

 

And, I'd have left my comments at that, or out, had the copyright infringement and trademark infringement questions not come up. Those issues have been hotly debated before in the forums in the past and may have come to a head here in what could be an expensive fundraiser (though I certainly hope that things are worked out amicably)

 

Regardless of the local council's views on use of BSA insignia, according to my local council the National office is very sensitive to trademark issues at this time. The cynical side of me would say that National has finally figured out how much money they have been losing by not licensing their products. National might not care, but it could be expensive if they did. National has a vested interest in ensuring that scout insignia and sayings are used appropriatly.

 

The scout law is a set of words and the fleur du leis (sp?) is just an image. But the particular arrangement of them on the back of the existing scout coin is owned by either the designer or minter depending on their contract. Use of the identical design without obtaining a license is theft, period. (Copyright infringement is the more technical term) Although no harm was likely intended, it potentially diminishes the value of the originator's work. What happens in this case is between the parties involved, and none of my business. But, do that to the wrong person, and things could get very expensive.

 

And, as an aside, condoning theft once for a good cause if the person promises not to do it again just isn't right.

 

It's been said before and bears repeating - Be careful when reproducing the trademarks and images of others! If you're unsure, use an original design or get permission.

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It sounds like Mtreasurecache has apologized. I do know what can be done further to resolve anything.

 

The front of the two coins in question are way different. No one cacher owns the right to an eagle or a Scout coin. I think accusing one of stealing a design is uncalled for when you can see the similarities in Scout eagles and insignia in a prior post.

The backs of the two coins are very similar in layout. However I have a bronze Scout coin about 15 years old that has the Scout oath on one side, and the other has the Scout Law and a Fleur.

 

As a 20 year Scouter (adult Scout Leader) I have learned to put the welfare of Scouts before any adult or their egos. If I was the first to design a Scout Geocoin, I would say: have at it, use it, copy it to benefit Scouts and Scouting. The new coin is made to benefit a Troop not "personal" profit. I hope that past and future coins have a similar purpose.

 

As a Scouter of 10+ years I agree with what EScout has said here.... the Eagle design on the 'Atwell Original' is more closely identical to other Scout coins, medallions, patches, cups, plates.... ad nauseum than the design being complained about.

 

And the Scout Law... exactly how many ways can you fit the same words on a given space?

 

Just as a matter of curiosity- how much of the sales of the Atwell 'commercial' coin went to BSA or Troops via donation or licensing fees? I see C&P/ AAron Charles on the list of licensees, wonder what the BSA gets for the use. Do they have a per unit fee or a set license for use of each individual trademarked item?

Edited by rickctroop13
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I have contact the seller with what I believe is a very amicable settlement. I said I wouldn't comment regarding until it was settled but I can't sit here and read these comments any long without responding.

 

It sounds like Mtreasurecache has apologized. I do know what can be done further to resolve anything...

 

As a 20 year Scouter (adult Scout Leader) I have learned to put the welfare of Scouts before any adult or their egos. If I was the first to design a Scout Geocoin, I would say: have at it, use it, copy it to benefit Scouts and Scouting. The new coin is made to benefit a Troop not "personal" profit. I hope that past and future coins have a similar purpose.

So it is ok to steal as long as you appoligize after the fact. Does not seem quite right. I might have said Ok, go ahead and use my design, if I was asked.

 

I have read through this and was on the fence until reading this post! You are right, as scouts, who'd care if another scout used a design similar to someone else's? Since the first coin maker doesn't own the inscription on the back, it's fair play IMHO...and if I had made the first coin, I'd be honored others would copy my work...means they liked it!! I'd also be happy others could use and raise money from the design. Hey, if I had made it and you had contacted me about it, I'd have let you use my die to help save the money so more funds could be raised!! Just MHO!...

I am honored they lov my work or liked it enough to copy. I would have also like to be asked if they could use it. As for raising money, C&P is selling a BSA lisensed product at a discounted price for large quantities like 100. They could have purchased my design and sold them as a fund raiser.

 

...Regarding the coin design, I think some folks are confusing the design with the content. I don't want to speak for Atwell (or anyone else), but I can see his point. The back of the coins looks darn near identical - the same font is used, a scroll for the tracking number, and two R/W/B fleurs in the same positions. Sure, it may be a simple coincidence. But if I saw something so close to my design on another coin I'd question it also. In a previous post there are images of a lot of different designs using the same or similar content - but they are designed differently. It's good to hear that your council doesn't have a problem with your use of the images. That can save a lot of headaches and allow you to focus on the selling of your coins. Some councils - and National - do have issues with the use of their images even for unit use. I think Atwell was only trying to offer some advice based on his learnings from the making of his coin.
I would agree here that the back is nearly identical. The designs all all going to have similar content but put together in different manners to create an original design. I don't believe this was done here.

 

For the definitive answer to all questions regarding BSA trademarks and current licensing policies here is a link to the official BSA site:

 

http://www.bsalicensing.org/trademarklisting.htm

 

Good luck with your fundraising!

:laughing:

Very good informaiton here and I know C&P spent many months getting approval to sell the coins. Looks clear here that all the items have some copyright or trademark and are not to be used without authorization. See below for additional comments from tokencollector regarding use of BSA property.

 

...Regardless of the local council's views on use of BSA insignia, according to my local council the National office is very sensitive to trademark issues at this time. The cynical side of me would say that National has finally figured out how much money they have been losing by not licensing their products. National might not care, but it could be expensive if they did. National has a vested interest in ensuring that scout insignia and sayings are used appropriatly.

 

The scout law is a set of words and the fleur du leis (sp?) is just an image. But the particular arrangement of them on the back of the existing scout coin is owned by either the designer or minter depending on their contract. Use of the identical design without obtaining a license is theft, period. (Copyright infringement is the more technical term) Although no harm was likely intended, it potentially diminishes the value of the originator's work. What happens in this case is between the parties involved, and none of my business. But, do that to the wrong person, and things could get very expensive.

I had a questions as to when is it components and when is it a design and tokencollector did a very nice job answering it. He also went into why I would have anissue with the use of the same design, diminishing value and sales of my original design, which is a lisensed BSA product and the Boy Sconts are receiving a fee for such.

 

As a Scouter of 10+ years I agree with what EScout has said here.... the Eagle design on the 'Atwell Original' is more closely identical to other Scout coins, medallions, patches, cups, plates.... ad nauseum than the design being complained about.

 

And the Scout Law... exactly how many ways can you fit the same words on a given space?

 

Just as a matter of curiosity- how much of the sales of the Atwell 'commercial' coin went to BSA or Troops via donation or licensing fees? I see C&P/ AAron Charles on the list of licensees, wonder what the BSA gets for the use. Do they have a per unit fee or a set license for use of each individual trademarked item?

I am shocked that you think my design is closer to some shown here then the two designs in question. I am not sure of the agreement between C&P and BSA that is a business arangement I am not part of. I can tell you that I was given 100 of the non-trackables for the design. 98 of those were donated to the troop I was part of during my scouting years as a youth and when I received my Eagle Scout award. The other 2 I kept 1 for myself and 1 for my brother who is also an Eagle Scout. I also recently sent my last trackable to someone who friend was a big scouting person and passed away suddenly. Those are just the donation I made, not sure what C&P has done or anyone else I sold some of the coins to at cost.
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Wow!

 

After 3 days of no response from Mark I contacted someone else at the troop. The Committee Chair and had a surprising and brief conversation.

 

It is appaerantly their position they picked the exact same elements and the exact same colors and put them in the exact same place on a coin. They then picked the exact same banner and, from what I cane tell, a very similar font. Lastly they added the trackable wording in the exact same way to the exact same place on the coin.

 

This was all luck or coincidence on their part. Their claim is nothing is copyrighted by myself so live with it...click.

 

Here is what I sent to try and settle the issue:

 

Here is what I am asking for, 1/2 the cost of a coin design. It normally cost $100 to have a coin designed. So $50 is what I am asking for in the form of payment. This will be used to buy the "Be Prepared" Scouting coin from C&P with my nephews name on it. He will be giving them as gifts to scouts he helps with Eagle project and then to those scouts who help him with his. So I will not be profiting from this but making a donation to numerous scouts in the Denver area.

 

I belived this was fair resolution to the issue but appearently stealing is ok in Troop 333 as long as there is no copyright on the information you steal.

 

I guess I need to go out and formalize all the coin designs I have done just in case Troop 333 wants to steal some of my other work. I could see that happening since the scout leader and the adult committe chair think it is ok.

 

This is a real shame, I though things could be resolved but they never wanted to discuss the matter with me.

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I've been trying to to not comment on this issue but it's time for my 2 cents.........

 

Since you've decided to air out your opinions about Mark in this forum it's time for you to catch flak also!

 

This is ridiculous ... and needs to end!

 

Mike --- you say that you would have probably given permission, if asked, to use "your" design for this coin. SO ..... what's the problem!? Why then are you throw such a big hissy fit?? Does your ego need some stroking? Maybe a little emotional Band-Aid for you. The comment about how the back of the coin is an identical match to yours is a clear cut case, it does resemble it, but it wasn't done with the intent to harm you or your own. It's the scout law, how many ways can it be printed out. Maybe the font used was his favorite? If he would have just changed the font would this have made you happy or are you claiming that style of lettering for you and you alone? If so, I may have an issue with you about that. I've been using that same font in my business for 10 years now and you didn't ask my permission for the use of it either. In fact I'm pretty sure you weren't the first to make an oval coin, maybe you should have asked permission for that also.

 

You have said that you are a scout supporter and have relatives in the program. So do I. I have a question for you, Where in the scout law does it refer to extortion and harassment. It seems to me you have crossed the line and committed both. "PAY ME $50 .... or what???? Give me a break, why don't you get off you tiny saopbox and get a life. What's the idea of tracking down Mark and Jeff, the committee chair, and calling them directly, at home no less. Who do you think you are, the Geo-Coin police? What's next, are you planning a cross country trip to California so you can really become a certified staker?

 

Claiming that the coin used the same banner as your is also a weak argument. I make headstones for a living. In our business the use of similar artwork is a common practice. It's a simple banner, font and layout. It's not unique in any fashion. I've used the same type of banner on a stone just yesterday ... should I have asked you for permission? I think not.

 

Was this coin made with the intent of stealing any thunder away from you and your coin ...NO! It was done to aid in the cost for a worthy cause. All money raised from it is going to the scouts for this troop outing. Mark isn't making anything on these coins. Where did the profit from yours go ... your pockets? Great for you. I read that you donated some of your coins to your local troop, great, I'll send you a one of these coins just for you ... free! Will that make you happy?

 

You have attacked the credibility of the troop. Saying that these scouts are learning that it is okay to "steal" as long as you say sorry. Steal what??? The Scout Law? Didn't know you were the owner of it. This is unacceptable!!!!! These scouts have done nothing to you. They shouldn't have even been brought up. These scouts do more for their community then most of us will ever do. Collecting food door to door to fill local food closets, packing gift boxes for our troops overseas and for needy kids at Christmas time, volunteering their time to help out at local functions and putting others needs before their own. I think that these kids are learning more then you have accused them of. What have you done for your community lately? You should apologize to them!

 

It's time for me to get off my soapbox now .... and YES! if you haven't figured it out I am also associated with Troop 333. In fact my eldest is the troops first EAGLE scout. I also have 2 other sons in the troop.

 

ps ... I see you are coming to GeoWoodstock in May. I'll be more then happy to discuss this in person then, if you wish.

Edited by graniteman84
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Wow!

 

After 3 days of no response from Mark I contacted someone else at the troop. The Committee Chair and had a surprising and brief conversation.

 

It is appaerantly their position they picked the exact same elements and the exact same colors and put them in the exact same place on a coin. They then picked the exact same banner and, from what I cane tell, a very similar font. Lastly they added the trackable wording in the exact same way to the exact same place on the coin.

 

This was all luck or coincidence on their part. Their claim is nothing is copyrighted by myself so live with it...click.

 

Here is what I sent to try and settle the issue:

 

Here is what I am asking for, 1/2 the cost of a coin design. It normally cost $100 to have a coin designed. So $50 is what I am asking for in the form of payment. This will be used to buy the "Be Prepared" Scouting coin from C&P with my nephews name on it. He will be giving them as gifts to scouts he helps with Eagle project and then to those scouts who help him with his. So I will not be profiting from this but making a donation to numerous scouts in the Denver area.

 

I belived this was fair resolution to the issue but appearently stealing is ok in Troop 333 as long as there is no copyright on the information you steal.

 

I guess I need to go out and formalize all the coin designs I have done just in case Troop 333 wants to steal some of my other work. I could see that happening since the scout leader and the adult committe chair think it is ok.

 

This is a real shame, I though things could be resolved but they never wanted to discuss the matter with me.

 

For the record, I'm not a scout, or associated with them.

 

I think that the attitudes displayed here are simply gross. Talk about teaching the youngsters a poor lesson. First, we come in here and accuse another Troop of stealing, copyright infringement, etc. That's real special.

 

Then, we move on to "well, maybe I better get the facts". After what I'm viewing to be numerous attempts at the truth, it finally comes out. IT WAS A COINCIDENCE! Now how does everyone feel. I know I feel better knowing that two Scout groups wanted to fund their respective orgs, and created from scratch this design to do so.

 

To top it all off, once we find out it was a simple coincidence, then we ask them for MONEY? :huh: Shameful, downright shameful. Grow up.

 

TMA

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Welcome to the forum graniteman84 (seeing this is your first post).

 

I understand this is a widely discussed issue seeing everyone from the troop has more information than provideed here or directly to them. Everyone also has the same story, "s*** happens, get over it!" Think I'll put that on my next scounting coin.

 

With that said, good luck with your coin sales and your trip to Philmont. It is a great place to go, been there and had a nice time.

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Ok, time for a little moderating check in.

 

I think everybody has had a fair chance to have their say on this matter and it's time to let this thread be focused on the sale of the coins themselves.

 

There's a new thread open to discuss copyright issues and any other communications between the main parties of this thread need to be taken offline.

 

The copyright thread by Tokencollector linkie is broken, so I end up back here...

1) a 'Fair Resolution' would have been "Neat coin, Good Luck with it" - not looking for cash settlement.

2) check out scoutstuff.org and look at just about any item with an Eagle on it and you'll see why I say that Mike's coin bears more resemblance to other scout stuff than the 333 coin does to his.

3) I see a different shape, a different front design, different layout and font of the same words on the back. As I said before, there are only so many ways to fit words on a coin.

4) I defer to Graniteman on the banner- suffice to say if you look on Scoutstuff you see lots of the same style banners and scrolls for putting names, Troop numbers, slogans etc. on.

5) The closest argument I can see for any close resemblance is the use of the Fluer d Lis as a finishing accent- but again that's not unique nor is the colorization.

So let's see... the tiny Fluer are what... 1% of the back design (at most)? That would be $0.50- hardly worth the stamp, envelope or paper to send.

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I am fairly new to geocaching. Last month, I was on a Cub Scout campout with my son and the Boy Scouts came out and introduced them to geocaching. My son and I are now hooked and it has provided us with some quality time together you could never buy. I just purchased, and recieved my first geocoin (literally a few hours ago) and guess which one it is? It is Mr Atwells design.

 

I've been in scouts for over 30 years now, and am currently a scout leader. I came into the forums to learn about geocoins and look what I stumble across. I'm not affiliated with either side on this issue, but would like to stress a few points about this thread. First, if I would have seen Mr Atwells acquisations and comments in this thread before I purchased the Scouting Coin, I never would have purchased the coin. Second, Mr Atwell attacks a scout troop for doing a fund raiser as a non-profit group when they make money doing it, that is the whole purpose of doing a fund raiser, and yes, it is still considered non-profit when they make money for a cause like this. Their production of their coin is nobel, the money is not going in anyone's pocket, but rather to promote a learning experience for young men. Your production of the coin is strictly FOR PROFIT. I don't care how many coins you donated to your own family's scout troop, the coins cost you nothing in the first place. Third, we're only talking about 100 coins that are very secific to only ONE Boy Scout Troop, how much damage, competition, or depreciation of Mr Atwells coin? Fourth, Mr Atwell brags about being an Eagle Scout, but I seriously wonder, his comments and actions do not reflect that of an Eagle Scout. I could go on, but I will leave this my final comment.

 

I bought the coin from the website looking at a small picture, after getting the coin, something about it reminded me of an eagle I've seem somewhere before, quite extensively, and almost exactly as the eagle on Mr Atwells coin. I don't know how to post a picture in a forum, but you can see dozens of the identical eagle at http://www.thirdreichruins.com/reichsadler.htm only the swastika is omitted on the coin.

 

This really should be a non-issue.

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Let's let old issues die out. There's no need to dredge up this thread when everything has been said and done.

 

If you (or anybody else) has issues with Atwell Family or the other party involved, please contact them directly to voice your opinion.

 

And really, linking to a Nazi site/image is uncalled for.

 

If this thread is to remain open, keep the conversation about general terms - otherwise it's just bringing up dead issues.

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