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FluteFace

'Finder' Not Meeting Earthcache Requirements

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I've got an earthcache and have run into a problem with one of the 'finders.' He 'found' it and logged it with the required photo roughly a month and a half ago (the date keeps changing) but has never sent the answers to the required questions. I've sent several requests for the answers and have heard not a peep from him -- nothing at all. I finally deleted his first log. He relogged it, again without the needed answers, although I requested them again. I deleted it again, he relogged yet again, and I again deleted. In accordance with newer earthcache requirements, this is meant to be an educational experience, yet he refuses to participate in that aspect of it. The requirements and consequences for not answering (or at least making an attempt) are clearly stated on the cache page.

 

As a last resort, I suppose I could make it a premium members only cache, but I'd rather not. Does anybody have any suggestions for me about this sad situation? Will/can the powers that be take any action?

 

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

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If the cacher won't return your emails and won't provide the info, I'd keep deleting and keep sending the reason why.

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Check your spam folder! My brother had a similar experience and it turned out that BOTH he and the finder were not seeing emails because emails from this web site were being filtered as Spam.

 

The required information had been emailed to my brother, but he never got it because it got filtered.

 

The email to the finder to please send the information never got to the finder because it also got filtered.

 

Eventually one of them checked and figured it out. So check yours.

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It depends on how much aggravation you want. He was there and unless he is an amoeba, he probably learned something. I'd let it go, but I have other things in my life to aggravate me :)

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Will/can the powers that be take any action?

From the cache maintenance guidelines:

 

http://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx#maint

 

"The cache owner will assume all responsibility of their cache listings.

 

The responsibility of your listing includes quality control of posts to the cache page. Delete any logs that appear to be bogus, counterfeit, off topic, or not within the stated requirements."

 

So it's basically up to you to continue deleting. You could make it a PM cache if you'd like, but that doesn't stop people from logging it if they know how.

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Spam filters have been checked, several times. I've got two of them!

He might not have checked his. Perhaps he's not getting your emails requesting the information? Leave a note to him on the cache page as to why you're deleting the log and let him know you'll continue until he sends it to you. You can delete the note later.

 

Maybe that'll help.

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There will always be those who do virtual and earthcaches from their armchair. We don't have to like it and agree with it, but there isn't much we can do.....unless we own the cache.

 

I have never deleted a log from any of my caches, but on this one I would probably continue deleting as long as they re-logged it.

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or you could just move on............it's only a game.

 

...but then the OP wouldn't be playing her own game by her own rules.

 

take a breath, relax, calm down....everybody just needs to stop taking this so seriously....like me, I am done with this post. :)

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or you could just move on............it's only a game.

 

...but then the OP wouldn't be playing her own game by her own rules.

 

take a breath, relax, calm down....everybody just needs to stop taking this so seriously....like me, I am done with this post. :)

...a bit of an over-reaction.

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I looked at your earthcache. The logging requirements are very well described. I can't imagine why somebody would keep trying to log. I do like the idea of posting to the cache page addressing the would be logger. But I can't imagine that they wouldn't be getting their emails from Groundspeak. If they are getting their log deletion notices, why wouldn't be they get a message from another cacher. If all else fails, make it a premium member cache. They would at least have to know somebody who would give them access to the loophole of logging it, and they might get embarrassed to keep asking the same person to let them use it.

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I would continue to delete his/her log if they keep submitting it minus the required information. And, if the cacher continued incessantly to resubmit the find log, I would send brief note of explanation to the admins at Geocaching.com, explaining the situation and the history, and explaining that his behavior was approaching the level of qualifying as harassment. I suspect that they will deal with the matter quickly, as a number of states -- including mine -- have firm laws on the books against harassment via the Internet.

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<snip> If all else fails, make it a premium member cache. They would at least have to know somebody who would give them access to the loophole of logging it, and they might get embarrassed to keep asking the same person to let them use it.

 

That is not correct. All a non-PM would need is the workaround knowledge, and the Waypoint number. The Waypoint number is available to a non-PM, and the workaround knowledge has been revealed several times in the forums. The primary method (numeric ID) is only available to PM's. If a non-PM was given that number, and kept a record of it, they could continue to use it for subsequent re-logs.

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I looked at your earthcache. The logging requirements are very well described. I can't imagine why somebody would keep trying to log. I do like the idea of posting to the cache page addressing the would be logger. But I can't imagine that they wouldn't be getting their emails from Groundspeak. If they are getting their log deletion notices, why wouldn't be they get a message from another cacher. If all else fails, make it a premium member cache. They would at least have to know somebody who would give them access to the loophole of logging it, and they might get embarrassed to keep asking the same person to let them use it.

 

If they are using Comcast, they MIGHT not be getting their emails. Comcast has been throttling GC/GS emails. GS is working on this.

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Thanks for all the responses. They are certainly food for thought. I really appreciate the reminder from the cache maintenance guidelines that pertain to this problem.

 

As far as his spam filters go, I have no idea who his provider is as I've never gotten an e-mail from him. However, I'll post a note to the cache page addressing why I'm deleting his logs and suggesting that he check his spam filters.

 

As for making it a PM only cache, I'm gonna try to hold off doing that. My preference is to make this available to all cachers.

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He/she might have done the original earth cache in this location. I looked at the site and thought that I had done that one only to realize that I had done the original. I could easily find my picture from the other cache but I couldn't answer the question. (Actually I do know the answer) I would take a guess that the picture was taken for the first earth cache and He/she is trying to log the new one too. Only a guess but it make since to me.

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The note has posted to the cache page. Maybe it'll be enough of an embarrassment to him that he'll either take care of this in the appropriate manner or cease and desist!

 

It is interesting to note that this cacher has indeed logged the prior Beacon Rock Earthcache, but he did not meet the requirements for claiming that one, either. It looks to me like he just stuck his camera out of the window as he drove by. But in that case, the owner let it stand.

 

As far as the PM work around being well known, it might be, but I bet there are plenty that don't know about it, particularly those that don't frequent the forums or newbs.

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...' He 'found' it and logged it with the required photo roughly a month and a half ago (the date keeps changing) but has never sent the answers to the required questions....

 

... Will/can the powers that be take any action?

 

A) He gave you a picture to prove he was there. If you do not dispute the validity of the picture, then he was there. Does the date matter?

 

and

 

2) Why should they? You created a cache to be visited, his picture proves he visited it, mission accomplished! There's no action for them to take.

 

My guess is that he didn't read the page thoroughly, visited the site, took a picture and moved on.

 

Now he can prove he was there with the picture, but he can't pass your exam because he didn't write that stuff down.

 

If your mission was to introduce him to an interesting place, you did so.

 

If his mission was to see that interesting place, he did so.

 

What do the additional logging requirements add to that?

 

Let the man log his visit.

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I would continue to delete his/her log if they keep submitting it minus the required information. And, if the cacher continued incessantly to resubmit the find log, I would send brief note of explanation to the admins at Geocaching.com, explaining the situation and the history, and explaining that his behavior was approaching the level of qualifying as harassment. I suspect that they will deal with the matter quickly, as a number of states -- including mine -- have firm laws on the books against harassment via the Internet.

Yep I agree. I have 6 Earthcaches and have found out that some people just will not follow the directions on the cache page. I too have had to delete finds. An Earthcache has certain rules associated with it and unless they are followed....delete. I have however been known to bend a bit on incorrect answers so long as the required picture is genuine.

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2) Why should they? You created a cache to be visited, his picture proves he visited it, mission accomplished! There's no action for them to take.

 

My guess is that he didn't read the page thoroughly, visited the site, took a picture and moved on.

 

Now he can prove he was there with the picture, but he can't pass your exam because he didn't write that stuff down.

 

If your mission was to introduce him to an interesting place, you did so.

 

If his mission was to see that interesting place, he did so.

 

What do the additional logging requirements add to that?

 

Let the man log his visit.

You're describing a decent scenario for a virtual cache, but this is an earthcache, which has an educational component in it (which is a requirement for it to be listed as an earthcache). If you're just driving down the road and snap a picture, sure it's probably a visit to a virtual cache, but as an earthcache it falls short of a find, so the log deserves to be deleted.

Edited by robert

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This is a game/hobby that people do for their enjoyment. You have reminded the finder about the rules and deleted his log once. The finder chose to relog. To carry on with the dispute would lose sight of the enjoyment aspect of it.

 

In fact, if I had an earthcache and somebody chose to log the find with a picture but without the answers I would leave it at that.

 

I find deleting logs very aggressive and to be avoided. It just takes the fun out of it.

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This is a game/hobby that people do for their enjoyment. You have reminded the finder about the rules and deleted his log once. The finder chose to relog. To carry on with the dispute would lose sight of the enjoyment aspect of it.

 

In fact, if I had an earthcache and somebody chose to log the find with a picture but without the answers I would leave it at that.

 

I find deleting logs very aggressive and to be avoided. It just takes the fun out of it.

 

But isn't there some onus on the finder to at least try to communicate with the owner too? From what I've read the owner has sent several e-mails, and the finder has done nothing but re-log the cache. This can be very frustratng for the owner, and probably will not incite her to cut the finder a break.

 

 

edit: clarification

Edited by Cedar Grove Seekers

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This is a game/hobby that people do for their enjoyment. You have reminded the finder about the rules and deleted his log once. The finder chose to relog. To carry on with the dispute would lose sight of the enjoyment aspect of it.

 

In fact, if I had an earthcache and somebody chose to log the find with a picture but without the answers I would leave it at that.

 

I find deleting logs very aggressive and to be avoided. It just takes the fun out of it.

I find continually logging a "found it" on a cache without completing the requirements to be aggressive and taking the fun out of it for the owner of that cache! Since there is no logbook to sign on the earthcache, the requirements must be met otherwise it's not a find. It's the responsibility of the cache owner to delete bogus finds, whether someone didn't sign the logbook or didn't complete the requirements to log the cache.

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I had a log of mine for an earthcache deleted. I visited the site, found the answers to the questions, but never thought about taking the picture. I emailed the answers and thought all was ok, until the log was deleted. I emailed the cache owner asking why the log was deleted. He told me I didn't send the picture. He was right. I failed to comply with the cache's guidelines, even though I did physically visit the cache. I don't have a problem with cache owners expecting all finders to follow the requirements for logging the find.

 

The next time I found an earthcache, I carefully read the requirements, answered the questions, and took a picture. :D

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There will always be those who do virtual and earthcaches from their armchair. We don't have to like it and agree with it, but there isn't much we can do.....unless we own the cache.

 

I have never deleted a log from any of my caches, but on this one I would probably continue deleting as long as they re-logged it.

 

My wife and went to London several years ago. Now that we are cachers and have pictures from several virtuals, we still won't log those as finds since it would be against the spirit of the game. Plus this gives us yet another reason to go back.

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I had a log of mine for an earthcache deleted. I visited the site, found the answers to the questions, but never thought about taking the picture. I emailed the answers and thought all was ok, until the log was deleted. I emailed the cache owner asking why the log was deleted. He told me I didn't send the picture. He was right. I failed to comply with the cache's guidelines, even though I did physically visit the cache. I don't have a problem with cache owners expecting all finders to follow the requirements for logging the find.

 

The next time I found an earthcache, I carefully read the requirements, answered the questions, and took a picture. :D

You'll find that you end up having a lot more fun with an attitude like that :D

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...Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

 

Since the questions are an additional logging requirment for the log to stay, the only thing you can do and keep sane is to not sweat it. Finders vary. You have a dippy doodle. Keep deleting, keep telling them why you are deleting the log and what they need to do to make it stick. This is the least fun angle on any kind of ALR cache. However if you don't stick to your guns you devalue the work that your other finders have done in logging the cache.

 

Remember your attitudue is your only defence against dippy doodles.

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I have several earthcaches, All I want to know is if they have been there. If I get the photo, great they have been there. If I get the answers, great they have been there. Either one or both is good enough for me. Would I delete a log? No. I try and not sweet the little things in life. Life is way to short to worry about if a cacher was reall there or not. If that's how they play, so be it. I doesn't stop my enjoyment of geocaching. :D

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There are requirements of the cache, they are well written out and explained. Why can't the cacher put it on their ignore list if for some reason they can't fulfill the requirements. Why does the owner have to be the one to give up?

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If the cacher won't return your emails and won't provide the info, I'd keep deleting and keep sending the reason why.
So would I. It's what we've agreed to do per the guidelines.

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If the cacher won't return your emails and won't provide the info, I'd keep deleting and keep sending the reason why.
So would I. It's what we've agreed to do per the guidelines.

 

 

In the ever present push to bastardize geocaching into the "great smiley hunt" cachers seem to be obsessed with making everyone happy. :P

 

Cache Maintenance

 

The cache owner will assume all responsibility of their cache listings.

 

The responsibility of your listing includes quality control of posts to the cache page. Delete any logs that appear to be bogus, counterfeit, off topic, or not within the stated requirements.

 

As the cache owner, you are also responsible for physically checking your cache periodically, and especially when someone reports a problem with the cache (missing, damaged, wet, etc.). You may temporarily disable your cache to let others know not to hunt for it until you have a chance to fix the problem. This feature is to allow you a reasonable time – normally a few weeks – in which to arrange a visit to your cache. In the event that a cache is not being properly maintained, or has been temporarily disabled for an extended period of time, we may archive or transfer the listing.

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. . . dippy doodles.

 

Is that a technical term? :P

 

It will be interesting to see what happens next. I've posted a note to the cache page, and there are a fair number of cachers (8 the last time I checked) now watching . . . hmmm . . . peer pressure? It seems to me that if he logs again without fulfilling the requirements, he will be found out as I will delete his log after waiting a reasonable amount of time.

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As a last resort, I suppose I could make it a premium members only cache, but I'd rather not. Does anybody have any suggestions for me about this sad situation? Will/can the powers that be take any action?

 

I'm in a bit of a humorous mood tonight. If it were me I might just log one of his caches as found and see what he does. If he does nothing I would delete my bogus find in about 30 days.

 

But, as said above, I would likely let his find stand if the photo seems genuine and not ripped from someone else. I have never been overly fond of ALRs. Being at a great geology site and reading even some of the cache page info still accomplishes the goal in my opinion. I wouldn't think it would be worth it to keep this battle of wills going.

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This must be the second earthcache at this locatioon. We were there two summers ago and took photos of ourselves next to the rock. We have climbed this rock too but that was before the days of geocaching. This site is most worthy of an earthcache so thanks for keeping it alive.

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I'm in a bit of a humorous mood tonight. If it were me I might just log one of his caches as found and see what he does. If he does nothing I would delete my bogus find in about 30 days.

Well, I won't knowingly log a bogus find on any cache. But, it turns out, I have 'legally' logged two of his caches in the past. Believe me, I am watching them.

But, as said above, I would likely let his find stand if the photo seems genuine and not ripped from someone else. I have never been overly fond of ALRs. Being at a great geology site and reading even some of the cache page info still accomplishes the goal in my opinion. I wouldn't think it would be worth it to keep this battle of wills going.

 

The photo looks genuine to me. But the goal for an earthcache is education, not a smiley (although they are nice) -- this isn't a 'jump outta the car and snap a photo' sort of cache. And remember, I didn't set the goal or how that goal was to be met.

 

Quoting directly from Earthcache.org: "Logging of EarthCache sites must involve visitors undertaking some educational task that relates to the site. This could involve them measuring or estimating the size of some feature or aspect of the site, collecting and recording some data (such as time of a tidal bore), or searching and sending via e-mail to the developer, some earth-science fact that they find from signage that relates to the site. Developers should try to involve visitors in learning from the site rather than just logging a visit. Logs should show that the visitors have 'learnt' by visiting your EarthCache site. Taking a photograph alone, having visitors sending a word from a sign, or asking people to do internet research does NOT meet these logging guidelines."

 

This must be the second earthcache at this locatioon. We were there two summers ago and took photos of ourselves next to the rock. We have climbed this rock too but that was before the days of geocaching. This site is most worthy of an earthcache so thanks for keeping it alive.

 

This is the 2nd earthcache at this location. The first was archived by geoaware a bit over a year ago because it no longer met the new, educational requirements for earthcaches, and the owner elected to not bring it up to the new standards. Since then, it has become a bit more onerous to place a cache here as it is a state park. At about the time I logged the first earthcache that was here, the park managers were busy pulling all of the physical 'regular' caches, and I don't believe any new ones have been placed.

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I'd have to agree with the log deletions here. Setting up an Earthcache isn't the easiest of tasks. Following the instructions on the cache page is. If the cacher can't follow the required steps to claim the cache then delete away.

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This is a game/hobby that people do for their enjoyment. You have reminded the finder about the rules and deleted his log once. The finder chose to relog. To carry on with the dispute would lose sight of the enjoyment aspect of it.

 

In fact, if I had an earthcache and somebody chose to log the find with a picture but without the answers I would leave it at that.

 

I find deleting logs very aggressive and to be avoided. It just takes the fun out of it.

 

I'd say that attitudes like that are what dilute any validity of GeoCaching.

 

The re-logging of the finds is far more aggressive and obnoxious.

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I've got an earthcache and have run into a problem with one of the 'finders.' He 'found' it and logged it with the required photo roughly a month and a half ago (the date keeps changing) but has never sent the answers to the required questions. I've sent several requests for the answers and have heard not a peep from him -- nothing at all. I finally deleted his first log. He relogged it, again without the needed answers, although I requested them again. I deleted it again, he relogged yet again, and I again deleted. In accordance with newer earthcache requirements, this is meant to be an educational experience, yet he refuses to participate in that aspect of it. The requirements and consequences for not answering (or at least making an attempt) are clearly stated on the cache page.

 

As a last resort, I suppose I could make it a premium members only cache, but I'd rather not. Does anybody have any suggestions for me about this sad situation? Will/can the powers that be take any action?

 

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

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For my earth caches a picture is enough proof they was there. I only have questions for the finders to answer because its a requirement to list a EC. So what, I don't care if they answer the questions right or wrong, as long as I have a picture then I'm happy.

 

And to be politically correct, you should refer to the local indians as native Americans or mention the tribe they are from. I have EC deicated to the Native American tribes in WY.

 

Whats next? Will you require they meet you in person before they find your EC?

Edited by Cav Scout

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This is a game/hobby that people do for their enjoyment. You have reminded the finder about the rules and deleted his log once. The finder chose to relog. To carry on with the dispute would lose sight of the enjoyment aspect of it.

 

In fact, if I had an earthcache and somebody chose to log the find with a picture but without the answers I would leave it at that.

 

I find deleting logs very aggressive and to be avoided. It just takes the fun out of it.

 

I'd say that attitudes like that are what dilute any validity of GeoCaching.

 

The re-logging of the finds is far more aggressive and obnoxious.

I suspect this is also partially why we no longer have virts...too many were "cheating" to score the smiley!

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For my earth caches a picture is enough proof they was there. I only have questions for the finders to answer because its a requirement to list a EC. So what, I don't care if they answer the questions right or wrong, as long as I have a picture then I'm happy.

 

And to be politically correct, you should refer to the local indians as native Americans or mention the tribe they are from. I have EC deicated to the Native American tribes in WY.

 

Whats next? Will you require they meet you in person before they find your EC?

Requiring them to follow the guidelines seems fair to me. What next for you...if they say they found one of your caches but didn't sign the log...would that be fine too?

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For my earth caches a picture is enough proof they was there. I only have questions for the finders to answer because its a requirement to list a EC. So what, I don't care if they answer the questions right or wrong, as long as I have a picture then I'm happy.

Well, it would seem that there's little educational value there, contrary to what Earthcaches are expected to be. What do the Native Americans your EC is dedicated to think about that? Or the folks at Earthcache.org? Personally, I enjoy the learning experience that both 'doing' and 'placing' an earthcache involves.(Your secret's safe unless those folks visit the forums. :))

 

And to be politically correct, you should refer to the local indians as native Americans or mention the tribe they are from. I have EC deicated to the Native American tribes in WY.

Thanks for the heads up here. I'll look into what's there and make some corrections. (Maybe not -- research showed some interesting things.)

 

Whats next? Will you require they meet you in person before they find your EC?

LOL! :unsure: Good Grief!! :)

Edited by FluteFace

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Who cares what the Devils Tower will educate you on... The just sight of it is incredible, but however there are educational tidbits in my EC listing very much like yours that talks about how the Devils tower came into exsistance. I don't go to earth caches to learn about them, I go to see natures beautiful artwork.

 

As far as the Lakota or Cheyenne think about my EC, well they probably think its cool that someone mentioned their folklore stories about Devils Tower.

 

If you ever go to my EC at Devils Tower and have a picture, I would'ntt care if you said the tower was made of playdoh to log a find.

 

Oh and by the way the folks or earthcache.org approved the listing of this cache.

 

This is the last I will mention about this.

 

Be sure to visit my ECs.

 

For my earth caches a picture is enough proof they was there. I only have questions for the finders to answer because its a requirement to list a EC. So what, I don't care if they answer the questions right or wrong, as long as I have a picture then I'm happy.

Well, it would seem that there's little educational value there, contrary to what Earthcaches are expected to be. What do the Native Americans your EC is dedicated to think about that? Or the folks at Earthcache.org? Personally, I enjoy the learning experience that both 'doing' and 'placing' an earthcache involves.(Your secret's safe unless those folks visit the forums. :))

 

And to be politically correct, you should refer to the local indians as native Americans or mention the tribe they are from. I have EC deicated to the Native American tribes in WY.

Thanks for the heads up here. I'll look into what's there and make some corrections.

 

Whats next? Will you require they meet you in person before they find your EC?

LOL! :unsure: Good Grief!! :)

Edited by Cav Scout

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For my earth caches a picture is enough proof they was there. I only have questions for the finders to answer because its a requirement to list a EC. So what, I don't care if they answer the questions right or wrong, as long as I have a picture then I'm happy.

Well, it would seem that there's little educational value there, contrary to what Earthcaches are expected to be. What do the Native Americans your EC is dedicated to think about that? Or the folks at Earthcache.org? Personally, I enjoy the learning experience that both 'doing' and 'placing' an earthcache involves.(Your secret's safe unless those folks visit the forums. :))

 

And to be politically correct, you should refer to the local indians as native Americans or mention the tribe they are from. I have EC deicated to the Native American tribes in WY.

Thanks for the heads up here. I'll look into what's there and make some corrections. (Maybe not -- research showed some interesting things.)

 

Whats next? Will you require they meet you in person before they find your EC?

LOL! :unsure: Good Grief!! :)

 

I agree with you, Flutey. Keep deleting this character's logs until all the requirements are met.

 

And, please don't turn all PC on us.....

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And to be politically correct, you should refer to the local indians as native Americans or mention the tribe they are from.

 

I'm confused by this. I think Tony Hillerman told us that "indian" is o.k. and that the Navajo's, at least, prefered this. There were two radio stations on the Navajo reservation: KREZ and KNDN (that's K-Indian). We picked up KREZ on our trip through the Navajo nation and it was great.

 

AAA has a great four corners map named "Indian Country".

 

I hope that "indian" is o.k. because "native American" sounds too forced to me.

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