Doing Maintenance On Caches That You Don't Own?

[+intolerable]

This is a question that could be extended to the larger geocaching community, but I'm primarily concerned with the feeling of locals, so wanted to ask this here.

 

This weekend I came across two containers that were damaged. One had previously been logged as in need of replacement, the other not. The one that had been previously logged as in need of help was badly rusted to the point where it was difficult to open. I happened to have a bison tube on me and decided to drop it next to the existing container for future cachers, at least until the owner was able to take action.

 

The other cache was damaged and taking in water which was causing the coordinates for the next WP in the multi to start to bleed. I made a note on the cache page, but the owner has not logged into the site since July 2007. While I have not emailed the owner directly in regards to this particular cache, a recent email regarding another cache went unanswered and fear that the damaged WP might not be attended to anytime soon. Of course, the owner could come back tomorrow, fix the cache and answer my mail... there's no way to know :-)

 

My question (finally ;-)), is the local community ok with someone dropping a replacement container next to a damaged one and is it ok to go as far as replacing both a damaged container and WP coordinates in a multi? I am considering getting a new deacon container and laminating the coordinates for the second cache I mentioned but don't want to overstep what is acceptable. As these aren't my caches, I don't want to offend the owners or those in the community.

 

Thanks for any input!

[luckykoi]

This is a question that could be extended to the larger geocaching community, but I'm primarily concerned with the feeling of locals, so wanted to ask this here.

 

This weekend I came across two containers that were damaged. One had previously been logged as in need of replacement, the other not. The one that had been previously logged as in need of help was badly rusted to the point where it was difficult to open. I happened to have a bison tube on me and decided to drop it next to the existing container for future cachers, at least until the owner was able to take action.

 

The other cache was damaged and taking in water which was causing the coordinates for the next WP in the multi to start to bleed. I made a note on the cache page, but the owner has not logged into the site since July 2007. While I have not emailed the owner directly in regards to this particular cache, a recent email regarding another cache went unanswered and fear that the damaged WP might not be attended to anytime soon. Of course, the owner could come back tomorrow, fix the cache and answer my mail... there's no way to know :-)

 

My question (finally ;-)), is the local community ok with someone dropping a replacement container next to a damaged one and is it ok to go as far as replacing both a damaged container and WP coordinates in a multi? I am considering getting a new deacon container and laminating the coordinates for the second cache I mentioned but don't want to overstep what is acceptable. As these aren't my caches, I don't want to offend the owners or those in the community.

 

Thanks for any input!

 

 

Depends on how old the cache is for an older cache that all of the local cachers have already found it might be better if it was archived and replaced with a new cache.

[+Renegade Knight]

Dropping a duplicate container probably isnt' as good as replacing. When replacing replace like with like is the best policy.

 

Replacing gladware with tupperware would be an example of a good exception to the replace like with like rule.

[+AndrewRJ]

Given where you were yesterday I would say that the cache owner is a bit busy with life. (I am making a guess as to what cache you are talking about.) He hasn't been maintaing his caches like he should. I really doubt that he would mind if the WP was fixed. That is a great cache I know that relativly few people have compleated it as it is quite a hike.

 

Overall if you replace a wet log or replace a broken container you are going above and beyond what most people are willing to do. I am always happy to have someone replace a wet log for me and if I have the supplies I am more then willing to help out by doing the same.

[+intolerable]

Given where you were yesterday I would say that the cache owner is a bit busy with life. (I am making a guess as to what cache you are talking about.) He hasn't been maintaing his caches like he should. I really doubt that he would mind if the WP was fixed. That is a great cache I know that relativly few people have compleated it as it is quite a hike.

 

Overall if you replace a wet log or replace a broken container you are going above and beyond what most people are willing to do. I am always happy to have someone replace a wet log for me and if I have the supplies I am more then willing to help out by doing the same.

 

Thanks for the feedback. As AndrewRJ has guessed, the damaged cache/WP looks like a really great multi, one that I really look forward to doing and would hate to see archived.

 

I appreciate the feedback in general. I have no problem adding a new log or replacing a bag to keep the log dry, but replacing a container is a pretty gray area for me.

[+MaplessInSeattle]

Personally, we've replaced/repaired a few already.

in the Oregon cache we found, we had to replace everything.

I've often wondered what the general concensus is here about this subject.

I've never had bad feedback from fixing a cache. But you never know when someone would freak out.

As for myself and my caches, I would like to have a chance to fix my cache first myself, but wouldn't be offended if someone saw one in a bad state and decided to fix it for me. As long as they left a note, so I was aware and able to inspect their handiwork I would be pleased.

[+WRASTRO]

I have done some log replacements and container repoairs when I had the supplies. There have been a few times when I have noticed logs about problems with nearby cachers and I have contacted the owners and offered to do maintenance. In one case an ammo can vanished but the contents were still there. I didn't have an ammo can but I did have a reasonable container which I offered. My offer was accepted and I did the replacement. Just last week I was finally able to provide an ammo can to the owner.

 

Another time I found a WP for a multi that was a bison tube. I simply could not get it open even with tools, so I brought it home and had to use multiple tools to get it open. Of course I posted a note and emailed the owner about what I was doing. I cleaned up the container so it worked again and had it back in place the next day. That saved the owner a fairly lengthy drive.

 

I enjoy being able to help out and I appreciate it when another cacher does the same.

 

Any time I do maintenance or feel I can help I contact the owner directly as well as post a note on the cache page.

[+Wander Lost]

I think it's okay to do a reasonable level of on the spot maintenance while caching. By reasonable I mean replacing a full log book with a new one or putting contents into fresh ziplock baggies if the ones they are currently in have holes.

 

What I don't like to see is when the local community takes over the maintenance of a cache that has long been abandoned by it's owner. On the surface it seems like the right thing to do, but really you are just keeping it on life support when the plug should have been pulled long ago. It's far better to arrange for an adoption if it's a cache worth saving. If it's beyond reparing post a Needs Archived log so that the area can be opened up again for a new cache by an active cacher.

[+Lightning Jeff]

What I don't like to see is when the local community takes over the maintenance of a cache that has long been abandoned by it's owner. On the surface it seems like the right thing to do, but really you are just keeping it on life support when the plug should have been pulled long ago. It's far better to arrange for an adoption if it's a cache worth saving. If it's beyond reparing post a Needs Archived log so that the area can be opened up again for a new cache by an active cacher.

Timely subject. A cacher local to me has gone dormant, and his caches are gradually slipping into disrepair and eventually being archived. Several are absolutely worth saving, and some of the ones that have been archived probably are still there. I have been contemplating doing just what Wander Lost doesn't like to see: taking over the maintenance. I can see the problem WL describes: a cache's life is prolonged when perhaps it shouldn't be. If the cache is uninspiring and the locals have already had a chance to find it, I can see the argument for archiving. On the other hand there certainly are caches that merit prolonged life, regardless of the fact that the owner is MIA. I think that's probably a call that should be made on a case by case basis.

 

If the cache does warrant maintenance and prolonged life, I agree that adoption is ideal. But can a cache (that is still present; I understand that missing caches can't be adopted out) be adopted without the authorization of the owner? (In the case near me, the owner has not logged in for over a year and has not responded to my emails.)

 

As for those that end up archived: I have heard about one of the state caching organizations (MiGO?) having a program where caches that have been archived due to slow/no response to maintenance needs being listed as needing to be removed or confirmed gone - a way of hopefully reducing the geolitter that is sometimes left when a cache is archived by a reviewer and the owner is MIA. Cachers can list their "find" (i.e., that they removed the cache or confirmed it is gone), which is some motivation to get people to go out and perform this task. Any thought given to something like that through WSGA?

 

On the main subject: I agree with others who have said that performing maintenance on someone else's cache is generally okay and welcomed. Personally, I could only see objecting to it if the repair somehow altered the fundamental character of the cache (e.g., changed the hide method, size of container, or the like). (Also, cachers should be very careful about "replacing" a cache that they are "pretty sure" is missing. We have heard stories about replacement boxes being set right on top of the cache. This is why I generally think replacement, as opposed to simple maintenance, should be handled by the owner or at least someone who has previously found the cache.)

[+NeverSummer]

-snip-Overall if you replace a wet log or replace a broken container you are going above and beyond what most people are willing to do. -snip-

 

I think the same thing, but above and beyond was how I learned to cache. For a long time I was convinced that most cachers carried around a bag filled with maintenance materials: Pens/pencils, paper, logbooks, simple swag, plastic baggies...

 

But I learned a while ago that most do not. I was caching with some new cache acquaintances and found the remains of a cache strewn about. I happened to have a similar-sized and type of container, log book, some goodies and such. We salvaged the cache, placed the contents in a plastic bag inside the new container, and replaced at the coordinates.

 

I was looked at like a leper! The surprise on faces was intimidating. I notified the owner when I got to the computer, and even wrote a note in the log book that the container was a replacement for the damaged/destroyed cache we found. The owner was happy to have it replaced, and cachers were able to keep finding it without a lengthy maintenance trip from the owner.

 

I think the real problem becomes when cachers use micros to replace stages of multis or full-on regular caches when they can't find the real cache. See, I learned this when I accidentally did exactly that early in my caching career. I got a kind, yet pointed, email from the owner and a few other cachers who found the original and replacement. )I had replaced what seemed like a missing micro cache with another micro, but I was off on the search by 10 feet. Go figure for a n00b, I know...)

 

I think that, at minimum, it is a great thing to replace wet/full logs or replace ziplocks when ripped...full cache replacement should be performed only with permission, or obvious need. Then it's just great karma!

 

jm2c

[+Prying Pandora]

As for those that end up archived: I have heard about one of the state caching organizations (MiGO?) having a program where caches that have been archived due to slow/no response to maintenance needs being listed as needing to be removed or confirmed gone - a way of hopefully reducing the geolitter that is sometimes left when a cache is archived by a reviewer and the owner is MIA. Cachers can list their "find" (i.e., that they removed the cache or confirmed it is gone), which is some motivation to get people to go out and perform this task. Any thought given to something like that through WSGA?

Actually, that's something we've had in the works for about a year now! We expect to implement it when we get our new improved WSGA website.

[+Lightning Jeff]

a program where caches that have been archived due to slow/no response to maintenance needs being listed as needing to be removed or confirmed gone

Actually, that's something we've had in the works for about a year now! We expect to implement it when we get our new improved WSGA website.

Cool! Will we be able to get a pocket query of such caches?!

[+The Jester]

There is a difference between replacing the container (due to damage/leaks) and replacing the cache (where missing). I've replaced a container when I had one of similar size (and there had been a number of log mentioning the problem) and I've had a container of mine replaced when a poor choice of container broke when opened (which I ended up replacing later with an ammo can). I also carry waterproof log books, baggies and such for basic help.

 

But replacing a "missing" cache does have problems, as noted above. Without input from the owner I wouldn't do it.

[+Difranco]

As far as maintenance on other owner's caches; if the owner is absentee or has lost interest you can always try to contact the owner to adopt the cache. If there is no response from the owner you can always suggest it to the adoption thread and move forward that way.

 

That is how I became owner of "Cached In" (GC7F45) and this cache for as old as it is, still has decent activity.

 

Basically, if the cache is run of the mill and the owner is not performing maintenance then I post a maintenance on the cache pages. After about 3 months of no maintenance I usually contact an admin/reviewer to post so they can post a warning notice.

 

However, if the cache is particular creative or worthwhile then I try to suggest it be adopted out in the adoption thread.

[+Chirpz]

We we find a cache that has a totally wasted, wet, soaked, useless log in it, we replace it with a waterproof log. We have been getting them from waterprooflogs.com

[+naj3]

As Far as the Cache (wp1 of a great cache) that is originallly addressed in this forum and any others owned by the cacher that has not logged in since July 2007. I personally have made an arrangement with the owner and am taking care of all of that cacher's caches until he is back to caching...as AndrewRJ (who was FTF on that cache) mentioned life changes have taken the said cacher out of the loop for a while. This to shall pass and he will be back soon to the game..I hope.

[+AndrewRJ]

As Far as the Cache (wp1 of a great cache) that is originallly addressed in this forum and any others owned by the cacher that has not logged in since July 2007. I personally have made an arrangement with the owner and am taking care of all of that cacher's caches until he is back to caching...as AndrewRJ (who was FTF on that cache) mentioned life changes have taken the said cacher out of the loop for a while. This to shall pass and he will be back soon to the game..I hope.

Hey thanks for doing that NAJ3. He has a lot of great caches out there and that is really huge to keep an eye on them.

 

Lightning Jeff and I seem to be unofficially keeping an eye on a cachers who seems to be out due to life out here in Duvall as well.

[+mmgestes]

We will replace a logbook or a ziploc baggie if the cache needs it. We always appreciate if someone does that for us too. There have been a couple of instances when we got to a cache and the tupperware type container was crushed or cracked and if we had an extra in our geocaching box we would replace with a like container, especially if weather conditions warranted it. At these times we always made a note in our log about this and then contacted the cache owner. To us, that is just good caching etiquette.

Never, ever have we considered replacing a missing cache.

 

There was a cache in our town that had been abandoned. It was the first cache placed in the town and our county and one of the very first published caches in the state. This cache is at a historic spot and is deserving of a cache placement. We had been doing maintenance on the cache for several months and after several unsuccessful attempts to contact the cache owner, who had actually taken it over for the original person who placed the cache, we were finally able to adopt the cache. Cache maintenance has its rewards too.

[+naj3]

As Far as the Cache (wp1 of a great cache) that is originallly addressed in this forum and any others owned by the cacher that has not logged in since July 2007. I personally have made an arrangement with the owner and am taking care of all of that cacher's caches until he is back to caching...as AndrewRJ (who was FTF on that cache) mentioned life changes have taken the said cacher out of the loop for a while. This to shall pass and he will be back soon to the game..I hope.

Hey thanks for doing that NAJ3. He has a lot of great caches out there and that is really huge to keep an eye on them.

 

Lightning Jeff and I seem to be unofficially keeping an eye on a cachers who seems to be out due to life out here in Duvall as well.

 

Yes it is a lot of work to keep up the Big L's caches but I feel it is well worth it as they are the caches I began with and learned so much from. He has so many great and creative caches out there and I just couldn't stand to see them go. So off I go here and there to fix some odd 60 caches!! Ha, Ha. Fixed another one today!

Edited January 14, 2008 by naj3

[+Lightning Jeff]

Lightning Jeff and I seem to be unofficially keeping an eye on a cachers who seems to be out due to life out here in Duvall as well.

Yup - and you should have something new (and old) to hunt for here soon...

[+hydnsek]

As Far as the Cache (wp1 of a great cache) that is originallly addressed in this forum and any others owned by the cacher that has not logged in since July 2007. I personally have made an arrangement with the owner and am taking care of all of that cacher's caches until he is back to caching...as AndrewRJ (who was FTF on that cache) mentioned life changes have taken the said cacher out of the loop for a while. This to shall pass and he will be back soon to the game..I hope.

Hey thanks for doing that NAJ3. He has a lot of great caches out there and that is really huge to keep an eye on them.

 

Lightning Jeff and I seem to be unofficially keeping an eye on a cachers who seems to be out due to life out here in Duvall as well.

 

Yes it is a lot of work to keep up the Big L's caches but I feel it is well worth it as they are the caches I began with and learned so much from. He has so many great and creative caches out there and I just couldn't stand to see them go. So off I go here and there to fix some odd 60 caches!! Ha, Ha. Fixed another one today!

Naj3 - thanks from me, too, for keeping Lahontan's many great caches going. I believe his 'life changes' = twins. Double the pleasure, double the fun - in more ways than one. (He already had two youngsters.)

 

And thanks to AndrewRJ (a new dad himself) and Lightning Jeff for maintaining the ones in Duvall. Am I correct that it's BlacRaven's caches? I miss him a lot!

Edited January 14, 2008 by hydnsek

[+Lightning Jeff]

And thanks to AndrewRJ (a new dad himself) and Lightning Jeff for maintaining the ones in Duvall. Am I correct that it's BlacRaven's caches? I miss him a lot!

Yes - and me too, very much. His early caches really inspired me to hide, and I keep visiting the places he introduced me to. Great guy - I hope we see him again someday.

[+intolerable]

As Far as the Cache (wp1 of a great cache) that is originallly addressed in this forum and any others owned by the cacher that has not logged in since July 2007. I personally have made an arrangement with the owner and am taking care of all of that cacher's caches until he is back to caching...as AndrewRJ (who was FTF on that cache) mentioned life changes have taken the said cacher out of the loop for a while. This to shall pass and he will be back soon to the game..I hope.

Hey thanks for doing that NAJ3. He has a lot of great caches out there and that is really huge to keep an eye on them.

 

Lightning Jeff and I seem to be unofficially keeping an eye on a cachers who seems to be out due to life out here in Duvall as well.

 

Yes it is a lot of work to keep up the Big L's caches but I feel it is well worth it as they are the caches I began with and learned so much from. He has so many great and creative caches out there and I just couldn't stand to see them go. So off I go here and there to fix some odd 60 caches!! Ha, Ha. Fixed another one today!

 

Thanks naj3 for maintaining them :-) While naj3 pretty much took care of my concerns regarding the great, but slighty wounded cache, this thread has been very educational for this newbie!

[+naj3]

As Far as the Cache (wp1 of a great cache) that is originallly addressed in this forum and any others owned by the cacher that has not logged in since July 2007. I personally have made an arrangement with the owner and am taking care of all of that cacher's caches until he is back to caching...as AndrewRJ (who was FTF on that cache) mentioned life changes have taken the said cacher out of the loop for a while. This to shall pass and he will be back soon to the game..I hope.

Hey thanks for doing that NAJ3. He has a lot of great caches out there and that is really huge to keep an eye on them.

 

Lightning Jeff and I seem to be unofficially keeping an eye on a cachers who seems to be out due to life out here in Duvall as well.

 

Yes it is a lot of work to keep up the Big L's caches but I feel it is well worth it as they are the caches I began with and learned so much from. He has so many great and creative caches out there and I just couldn't stand to see them go. So off I go here and there to fix some odd 60 caches!! Ha, Ha. Fixed another one today!

Naj3 - thanks from me, too, for keeping Lahontan's many great caches going. I believe his 'life changes' = twins. Double the pleasure, double the fun - in more ways than one. (He already had two youngsters.)

 

And thanks to AndrewRJ (a new dad himself) and Lightning Jeff for maintaining the ones in Duvall. Am I correct that it's BlacRaven's caches? I miss him a lot!

 

Yes twins is the issue but I didn't wish to tell everyone about his personal life and this will be the end of broadcasting it as he wouldn't be too happy about cachers discussing his life in the forums. He is a a very private old school cacher and I would like everyone to respect his privacy please.

Edited January 14, 2008 by naj3

[+Prying Pandora]

Naj3 - thanks from me, too, for keeping Lahontan's many great caches going.

Not clear on how you have helped with Big L's caches but whatever.......

I believe she was thanking you for maintaining Lahontan's caches, not taking credit herself.

[+naj3]

Naj3 - thanks from me, too, for keeping Lahontan's many great caches going.

Not clear on how you have helped with Big L's caches but whatever.......

I believe she was thanking you for maintaining Lahontan's caches, not taking credit herself.

 

Oh man can anyone point out I can be a butt and a #$#% sometimes...geez. Thanks PP!!

 

I'm suffering under the old "why don't you have higher numbers deal" lately and read her log wrong!!! Sorry Hydnsek! Let's just log I'm an over worked geocaching jerk. N

[+AndrewRJ]

Lightning Jeff and I seem to be unofficially keeping an eye on a cachers who seems to be out due to life out here in Duvall as well.

Yup - and you should have something new (and old) to hunt for here soon...

You should have one about 4 miles away soon as well.

 

Edit, I think this may have gone off track a bit, but it is clear that we all seem to have old caches that we have liked enough to maintain somewhat when the owner has been away.

Edited January 14, 2008 by AndrewRJ

[MarcusArelius]

Yup - and you should have something new (and old) to hunt for here soon...

 

Hmmm, was that your gold Rubicon that I parked by at the gate yesterday?

[+Lightning Jeff]

Hmmm, was that your gold Rubicon that I parked by at the gate yesterday?

Yup! It's actually "Rescue Green," but I can see how you get to gold from there - it's a pretty strange color.

[+yumitori]

Peggy and I always carry maintenance supplies, including replacement containers. We only do like size with like size, of course, and only under extreme circumstances (totally shattered plastic containers, for example). We don't try to replace ones that were specially camouflaged or otherwise require offsite effort. Mostly we do a lot of log replacements on less-than-watertight containers.

 

There days we have taken to carrying one of the cache maintenance kits from Dr. B's since it has everything we typically want (and stuff we never realized we needed). That and a lock-n-lock container gets us through most situations.

[+Logscaler and Red]

We will replace caches that are damaged or caches that we have found before that we know is missing, if it deserves to be replaced. (High handed I know but thats just me.)

 

We will not replace caches we can not find. It is not our place to second guess a cache owners hiding place or style. Also, who finds them all on the first try?

 

We will try and rebuild a cache to a minimum standard level of caches We like to find - swag, scribble sticks, logbooks, baggies - if We have found the cache in a state of disrepair.

 

Some caches just need to die. To be blunt, no heroic measures need to be use on "why here?" caches.

 

There is a time when a cache just needs to be archived and replaced with a new cache owner but the location has to deserve a cache in the first place, not just because there is/was a cache at that location.

 

Logscaler.