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First FTF Cache


JonInNH1
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I was thinking about putting out a cache or two for those who have not been able to log a first to find. If I state that in the description does anyone think that could be a reality? I think it would be nice to give some people who aren't quite as "crazy" B) a chance to get a FTF. I know I would like to get one one of these days but I am not driven by it. Thanks for your input.

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Hmmm. Tricky one. First to Finds are just one aspect of the game. Some cachers love the thrill of seeing a new cache and wanting to race the local FTF hounds to it. Others don't care about the FTF, but have simply found every other cache near them, so they go do the new ones the day after they came out. Yes it is a nice thought to share the FTF wealth, and I'm sure it would be honored, but in the end, a smiley is a smiley weather you are first or tenth. Being handed a FTF wouldn't be nearly as exciting as beating out the cachers that sit in front of computers waiting for new caches. The way I see it, if a cacher wants to compete in the FTF aspect of the game, a valiant effort might be required. To at least try and answer the question, yes, it would probably be honored as cachers are usually pretty considerate.

 

Here is a cache (along with several others of the same name) that has a very clever twist

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...62-fb181660a391

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If they don't have the will power or interest in getting out there quickly to get the FTF, then what's the point of slowing down everyone else so they can get one? If they cared about getting one, they'd get a membership, set up notifications and be ready at a moments notice to run out the door at any time of the day or night.

 

I haven't gotten any for quite a while, because its not been a priority for me, but I'm not asking everyone else to put lead on their shoes so I'll get some sort of fake advantage.

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I don't see it as penalizing or handing it to anybody, I think it would just give some others a chance.

 

Is it more of a challenge when you are the only one looking or when someone else is there at the same time?

 

New caches come out All the time, you can't just miss one?

 

If you take the game that seriously are you still having fun? :rolleyes:

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I don't see it as penalizing or handing it to anybody, I think it would just give some others a chance.

 

Is it more of a challenge when you are the only one looking or when someone else is there at the same time?

 

New caches come out All the time, you can't just miss one?

 

If you take the game that seriously are you still having fun? :rolleyes:

 

How is it not handing it to them if you tell others not to go for the FTF??!?! If they want it that bad, then they should have to put out the extra effort.. That's what FTF is all about.

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How much effort or work can really be involved in being a FTF hound? It seems to be a lot about individual situation and less about any real work or effort.

 

If you have a job that permits you to get away and a wife/husband that won't divorce you for putting caching as a priority then there you have it.

 

Outside of that what work is there? Setting up e-mail alerts?

 

Anyway, carry on with the main topic...I just find it kind of funny every time I see on the forums people acting as if FTF is some real skill. Then again...maybe I am overlooking something?

 

/shrug

Edited by egami
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Here is a link to what we are doing here in Indy. Wish I had come up with the idea, but everyone is having fun with it! It's an honor to the FTF hounds - and no one else can be a FTF on it unless they place a cache out in the honor of another FTF.

 

Check it out!

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...b3-72c8d5172017

 

Also - something else I do is when I am submitting a new cache, I request that it is published on the weekend to give those that work a chance to be FTF!

Edited by ATMS
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You could always just wait until the regulars find and log the cache and then go and place a FTF prize in for the people who have real jobs...

 

That is a great idea! ;) And nobody is offended! :rolleyes:

 

I'll state the obvious, if others have found the cache already, then it's not really a first to find for those that come later is it? Whatever the prize is you put in the cache is not really a FTF prize is it? FTF means "FIRST TO FIND".. It's not really about the prize anyways, it's about being first. This thread seems to be missing the entire point of FTF.

 

Maybe you should just focus on putting out good caches with cool stuff in them and ignore the whole FTF thing.

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In Ohio there are around 6 FTF caches, meant to be fun and yes, give everyone a chance to log that FTF!! please look at these, I set one up in my home town, using the template of the other OH FTF caches.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...eb-98cd6afc2fdc

 

 

GCTXFK Cleveland

GC11NNP Dayton

GC13Z4Z Newark (mine)

 

hope this helps ;):huh::rolleyes:

Edited by mdegarmo
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Our 14th cache found was an FTF. We were thrilled to have beaten the hounds and experienced cachers. We would never have felt that sense of achievement if all the previous FTFers weren't allowed to go for it. In fact we probably wouldn't even count it on our list of FTFs.

 

As a former FTF hound myself, I can tell you that FTFs are only meaningful because they are difficult to get. Someone truly interested in getting their first FTF will probably want the full challenge. Someone who doesn't really care about ever getting an FTF isn't going to complain that they can never get one. I'm not so sure that your solution will truly satisfy anyone.

 

I think your intentions are good, and I would likely honour your request, but I would never look at it as a true FTF.

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I hunted a cache that did not permit a find by anyone with over 50 finds, for the first ten days. It received some very negative feedback. ALR usually requires a mystery/puzzle icon. Go for it, if you wish, but be prepared for negative feedback.

Taking bets on who will be FTF on our newest hide (when and if it is published). My bet is on the retired cacher with eight legs. Though there are good odds on the #1 cache finder in the area.

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Everybody in the local area already has a chance. They just might not be willing to make the effort.

Why reward them and punish those who work for it?

 

 

Again, people couldn't just let one go by the boards and give someone else a shot? It would be nice to reward someone who has been trying and falling just short time after time. I'm not talking days but hours here. All this talk about punishment, I don't get it.

 

I think the first FTF is alot more rewarding than the 79th. That is my point.

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I don't see it as penalizing or handing it to anybody, I think it would just give some others a chance.

 

Everybody in the local area already has a chance. They just might not be willing to make the effort.

Why reward them and punish those who work for it?

 

Willing, or maybe able.

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It's obvious that I touched on a sore subject here. That is why I asked this question in the first place, to see what people felt. I guess I will just try and make my future caches memorable in other ways and hope that someone gets a lucky break and gets there first FTF on it. :rolleyes:

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It's obvious that I touched on a sore subject here. That is why I asked this question in the first place, to see what people felt. I guess I will just try and make my future caches memorable in other ways and hope that someone gets a lucky break and gets there first FTF on it. :rolleyes:

 

The part that you are not understanding is that if you tell everyone else not to go after it, what's the point? That would be like lowering the passing score on a test to 30% so that "Johnny Doesn't Study" can pass. Does it help Johnny? No, what helps Johnny is to put forth the extra effort to actually get a passing score, not lower the standards so its easier for him...

 

Make sense?

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I understand your point. If I am telling everyone not to look for it that would mean everyone has an FTF. That is not the case and that has been the jist of my idea all along. I guess what you don't understand is that everyone doesn't have all the pricy gadgets and can't take off at a moments notice day or night, especially durning the week. If anything is "unfair" it is because of those reasons. I understand that is the nature of the FTF part of the game. I can live with it because I geocache and not FTF.

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I guess what you don't understand is that everyone doesn't have all the pricy gadgets and can't take off at a moments notice day or night, especially durning the week. If anything is "unfair" it is because of those reasons.

 

I found my first 11 FTFs as a regular member (no instant notification) and had only a Garmin yellow GPS - nothing else.

 

I learned very quickly that to get them, you have to go for them.

 

I think it's easier for some people to sit at home and complain that they can't beat the hounds with all the technology.

 

One has to risk losing the FTF race in order to sometimes win it. I had almost as much fun being 2TF of 3TF, because I was part of the race.

 

As I eluded to earlier, if your 'rigged' FTF race was my first FTF, I wouldn't feel too good about it.

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I guess what you don't understand is that everyone doesn't have all the pricy gadgets and can't take off at a moments notice day or night, especially durning the week. If anything is "unfair" it is because of those reasons.

 

I found my first 11 FTFs as a regular member (no instant notification) and had only a Garmin yellow GPS - nothing else.

 

I learned very quickly that to get them, you have to go for them.

 

I think it's easier for some people to sit at home and complain that they can't beat the hounds with all the technology.

 

One has to risk losing the FTF race in order to sometimes win it. I had almost as much fun being 2TF of 3TF, because I was part of the race.

 

As I eluded to earlier, if your 'rigged' FTF race was my first FTF, I wouldn't feel too good about it.

 

I found my first SIXTY FTF's without the fancy instant notification scheme (which works marginally well). My last two FTF's never "notified me" they were available. Just happened to time my visit to GC.COM and some REALLY bad weather. One FTF a long time ago was found in a driving snowstorm with the temp at 13°F and at night in the dark. Loved that one! The notify technology helped me with only ONE find, my 61st. It just ain't working.....

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If they don't have the will power or interest in getting out there quickly to get the FTF, then what's the point of slowing down everyone else so they can get one? If they cared about getting one, they'd get a membership, set up notifications and be ready at a moments notice to run out the door at any time of the day or night.

 

ReadyOrNot summed up my thoughts exactly.

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Though not what I eluded to in my earlier post, it kinda sounds like what has been happening on "The Amazing Race".

 

There is this couple that fight like cats and dogs through every challenge, and a few weeks ago she had the nerve to start whinning something like "You guys have already finished first, (a race segment) why can't you let us win one?" Oh well, it gives me somebody to root against.

 

Your reviewer might be able/willing to list your new hide at a time that is better for the masses that have no FTF's, say Saturday at around 1:00 PM so you could try that.

Otherwise just sit back and enjoy the show.

 

In response to "People who have jobs....", I own my own business, usually putting in 60 or more hours a week, and I still manage a few.

 

Have fun,

PP4x4

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If they don't have the will power or interest in getting out there quickly to get the FTF, then what's the point of slowing down everyone else so they can get one? If they cared about getting one, they'd get a membership, set up notifications and be ready at a moments notice to run out the door at any time of the day or night.

 

ReadyOrNot summed up my thoughts exactly.

 

That's not totally true...the people I've spoke with at events, or one on one, that express interest on FTF's, but rarely get them have all the will power and interest of any other person.

 

I'll say it again...FTF hounds are enabled largely due to circumstance more than any kind of "will power" or "skill". There isn't any real "skill" to being FTF. It's largely about not being hampered by a job, school or family circumstance.

 

The main reason I personally wouldn't do a cache like this is because I think by and large most people that aren't FTF-hounds are largely not bothered by not having massive FTF's. Certainly not as bothered by it as much as some of the FTF-hounds apparently are by the idea of holding back on one.

 

FTF-hounding isn't really a "skill" though. The two major factors are 1) circumstance and 2) proximity. Outside of that...they've learned how to set up a basic e-mail alert to their phone that a simple forum search will guide you through.

Edited by egami
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Everybody in the local area already has a chance. They just might not be willing to make the effort.

Why reward them and punish those who work for it?

 

 

Again, people couldn't just let one go by the boards and give someone else a shot? It would be nice to reward someone who has been trying and falling just short time after time. I'm not talking days but hours here. All this talk about punishment, I don't get it.

 

I think the first FTF is alot more rewarding than the 79th. That is my point.

 

Too me, your idea (which was discussed here before) is akin to welfare / entitlement. Giving or reserving FTF to someone who doesn't go through the extra effort is like a "give away." It is no different than making a kid student of the month (to make him feel better) even though he did nothing to earn it.

 

FTF is like an illicit drug to some cachers, and they take it serious. They have no problem getting up at midnight to make a two mile hike. Those that don't make this kind of effort should laugh at the addicts, rather than look for a "handicap."

Edited by Kit Fox
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Here is a link to what we are doing here in Indy. Wish I had come up with the idea, but everyone is having fun with it! It's an honor to the FTF hounds - and no one else can be a FTF on it unless they place a cache out in the honor of another FTF.

 

Check it out!

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...b3-72c8d5172017

Say I find this cache first and sign the log, but I have no interest in owning another cache. Who's the FTF? And will my find log be deleted?

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FTF-hounding isn't really a "skill" though. The two major factors are 1) circumstance and 2) proximity.

 

I agree with those two factors, but I'd say another big factor is WILLINGNESS. There are those who would love an FTF but say to themselves "Heck, I probably won't be first, so I won't bother making an attempt".

 

Although having flexible hours, and technology helps, I don't buy the argument that you need those things to get FTFs. Most of my FTFs were done on weekends or after work, and I have never had instant notification to my phone/PDA.

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FTF-hounding isn't really a "skill" though. The two major factors are 1) circumstance and 2) proximity.

 

I agree with those two factors, but I'd say another big factor is WILLINGNESS. There are those who would love an FTF but say to themselves "Heck, I probably won't be first, so I won't bother making an attempt".

 

Although having flexible hours, and technology helps, I don't buy the argument that you need those things to get FTFs. Most of my FTFs were done on weekends or after work, and I have never had instant notification to my phone/PDA.

 

If you re-read my reply in it's entirety and in context of who I was replying to I think you'll see the point in emphasis on those two factors.

 

People seem to be forgetting that without the right circumstances which enable you to get out quickly and without being in close proximity to where caches are published more frequently you can have all the willingness in the world and it won't do a bit of good.

 

The point isn't to say willingness is not a factor. The point is that "will power", "interest", "willingness" and the like are all for naught if you don't have the right circumstance. Really, for all practical purposes proximity could be considered part of ones circumstance.

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I think the last two posts are getting close to what my original idea was trying to accomplish(thanks). If possible, a weekend publication would be nice because it would give more people a shot and that is all I am asking for. I don't want to "give" anything to anyone and wouldn't want to ruin anyone's experience. Whatever happens to my next caches happens. I know it will make someones day.

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FTF-hounding isn't really a "skill" though. The two major factors are 1) circumstance and 2) proximity.

 

I agree with those two factors, but I'd say another big factor is WILLINGNESS. There are those who would love an FTF but say to themselves "Heck, I probably won't be first, so I won't bother making an attempt".

 

Although having flexible hours, and technology helps, I don't buy the argument that you need those things to get FTFs. Most of my FTFs were done on weekends or after work, and I have never had instant notification to my phone/PDA.

 

If you re-read my reply in it's entirety and in context of who I was replying to I think you'll see the point in emphasis on those two factors.

 

People seem to be forgetting that without the right circumstances which enable you to get out quickly and without being in close proximity to where caches are published more frequently you can have all the willingness in the world and it won't do a bit of good.

 

The point isn't to say willingness is not a factor. The point is that "will power", "interest", "willingness" and the like are all for naught if you don't have the right circumstance. Really, for all practical purposes proximity could be considered part of ones circumstance.

 

Agreed that proximity is very important, and for my purposes it's assumed as I won't travel more than say 15 miles one-way for an FTF.

 

Assuming that proximity and circumstances are right, I believe that some people who would love an FTF are just not willing to go for them. The reasons could be many (i.e. they won't cache at night, they just sat down to dinner, they assume that the local hound will beat them).

 

I believe that many people who complain about local hounds getting all the FTFs, just aren't willing to do what it takes to go and get them. A few 2TFs shouldn't cause people to stop trying, and sit at home and complain instead.

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I think the last two posts are getting close to what my original idea was trying to accomplish(thanks). If possible, a weekend publication would be nice because it would give more people a shot and that is all I am asking for. I don't want to "give" anything to anyone and wouldn't want to ruin anyone's experience. Whatever happens to my next caches happens. I know it will make someones day.

 

Have your cache published Saturday at midnight. This will determine who is really serious about the FTF.

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Chasing FTFs can be fun if you enjoy having a bit of competition to spice up a game.

 

When my buddies and I fish we have a standard bet; 50 cents for the first, biggest and most. The trip might cost hundreds of dollars or just gas money, we may catch fish or not, we have a great day together on the water no matter what, but winning that $1.50 is the part we take the most delight in!

 

Growing up my grandmother, a retired school teacher, lived just up the street and we played Scrabble several times a week, with a standard bet of one nickel per game. We absolutely delighted in winning that nickel, and over a lifetime of hundreds of games it went back and forth pretty evenly. Whoever lost put a nickel in the game box, and if you happened to be ahead it was fun to count nickels while the other one tried to make a word! Just to gig the other a little... you didn't want to crow too loudly because the luck was sure to change!

 

That was fun, it added to the game, it wasn't true competition, we really didn't care who won the nickel, we knew that we'd get it back eventually... or not. I didn't play for years after she died, then one day when my daughter wanted to play we opened the box to find two nickels in it - that's how close we were after a lifetime of playing. I have no clue who won those last two nickels, and it really does not matter!

 

That's pretty much how I play the FTF game.... it adds some excitement to the game but it isn't what the game is about.

 

Sometimes I am in the mood for an FTF chase, sometimes not. They aren't important enough for me to keep track, so I don't have any idea how many FTFs I have found.

 

Because this dovetails with other threads on the FTF topic, I will say that none of the regular FTF-chasers that I know take the FTF prize, that's not what we cache for.

 

As far as technology, supposed 'Instant Notifications' help, but several of us who have compared the time of day that we received the same notification shows that there can be several hours difference in when we receive them, with no discernible pattern, so 'instant' doesn't mean much.

 

Being able to connect mobile DOES give you a huge advantage... if I am in the mood when I find a cache I may go online to see if any have been published nearby while I was out. Since it's not expensive to equip for mobile internet that's really a desire thing more than a capability thing... nowadays you can buy mobile internet capability for about the cost of a tank of gas, so it's really a 'want to' thing!

 

I am retired and can go after one most times as soon as the email gets to me - at least 5 times I have gotten the email 'instant notification', hustled out the door to the 'new' cache just a few miles from me, only to discover that it had been found an hour before!

 

One was 2 miles from the house; I was out of here literally within minutes of getting the notification, and it had been found 3 times when I got to it! I have no clue why, but my 'instant' notification arrived hours after theirs did.

 

Sometimes I get them before others do, there's just no way to know.

 

We have a pretty tight caching community here in the AGA, so it's not uncommon for us to call another cacher and give them a heads-up that a new cache has just been published near them, or put a shout out on the DixieCachers.com forum so that everyone can see it.

 

Many times we'll put a heads up in the forum, saying that we've submitted a listing, watch for it to be published. That way anyone who so desires can be ready to go.

 

About half of my DNFs were pure luck - load a PQ and go follow the GPS from cache to cache without reading the listings and luck up on new hides.

 

Two of the FTF regulars in my area delight in finding it first, signing it and not logging it online, so that you get there thinking "Oh Yeah!, FTF!", open the log and there's OBH's signature. Curses, foiled again! That's as much fun as actually being FTF.

 

I had one show up that was forty-something miles from home, out in the country way south of where any of the regular FTFers live. I saw the notice when I got up, but had a conference call to attend. It was a rainy foggy morning, and I figured that would deter most folks. When done with my work I figured that a few hours wouldn't matter for one so far off the beaten path, especially considering the weather, and set out. Maybe a half-mile hike up and down a hilly muddy power line and I find the cache at 12:03 - Woohoo! Open the log and 3Card had signed it at 12:00. Ouch, beaten by 3 minutes! But wait, I hadn't passed him on the trail, and didn't see another one, so he has to still be here, I figure he heard me coming and is hiding watching nearby. I look all around me waiting on him to step out to laugh at me, no 3Card. I look more carefully at the log - he'd signed it at midnight!

 

3Card has a full-time job, a wife and young children, but he's out scoring an FTF an hour from home at midnight in the rain! THAT's desire!

 

As others have mentioned it's about desire more than capability.

 

Our reviewing tends to get done in the morning or evening... If you are willing to leave the house at 11 p.m. and go for the cache you stand a good chance of being first.

 

If "Oh man, I have to work tomorrow and need my sleep" stops you then it isn't a lack of capability, it's lack of desire!

 

A cache designed to be an FTF-gimmee for folks who lack the desire to go when it's published? Um, no thanks!

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I'd like to reiterate someone's point that you can ask your reviewer for a weekend publication. That levels the playing field considerably, without rigging the race. Obviously your reviewer may have a life (unlikely, but possible) so a specific time may not be possible: but some time over the weekend, yep.

 

I agree.

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Chasing FTFs can be fun if you enjoy having a bit of competition to spice up a game.

 

When my buddies and I fish we have a standard bet; 50 cents for the first, biggest and most. The trip might cost hundreds of dollars or just gas money, we may catch fish or not, we have a great day together on the water no matter what, but winning that $1.50 is the part we take the most delight in!

 

Growing up my grandmother, a retired school teacher, lived just up the street and we played Scrabble several times a week, with a standard bet of one nickel per game. We absolutely delighted in winning that nickel, and over a lifetime of hundreds of games it went back and forth pretty evenly. Whoever lost put a nickel in the game box, and if you happened to be ahead it was fun to count nickels while the other one tried to make a word! Just to gig the other a little... you didn't want to crow too loudly because the luck was sure to change!

 

That was fun, it added to the game, it wasn't true competition, we really didn't care who won the nickel, we knew that we'd get it back eventually... or not. I didn't play for years after she died, then one day when my daughter wanted to play we opened the box to find two nickels in it - that's how close we were after a lifetime of playing. I have no clue who won those last two nickels, and it really does not matter!

 

That's pretty much how I play the FTF game.... it adds some excitement to the game but it isn't what the game is about.

 

Sometimes I am in the mood for an FTF chase, sometimes not. They aren't important enough for me to keep track, so I don't have any idea how many FTFs I have found.

 

Because this dovetails with other threads on the FTF topic, I will say that none of the regular FTF-chasers that I know take the FTF prize, that's not what we cache for.

 

As far as technology, supposed 'Instant Notifications' help, but several of us who have compared the time of day that we received the same notification shows that there can be several hours difference in when we receive them, with no discernible pattern, so 'instant' doesn't mean much.

 

Being able to connect mobile DOES give you a huge advantage... if I am in the mood when I find a cache I may go online to see if any have been published nearby while I was out. Since it's not expensive to equip for mobile internet that's really a desire thing more than a capability thing... nowadays you can buy mobile internet capability for about the cost of a tank of gas, so it's really a 'want to' thing!

 

I am retired and can go after one most times as soon as the email gets to me - at least 5 times I have gotten the email 'instant notification', hustled out the door to the 'new' cache just a few miles from me, only to discover that it had been found an hour before!

 

One was 2 miles from the house; I was out of here literally within minutes of getting the notification, and it had been found 3 times when I got to it! I have no clue why, but my 'instant' notification arrived hours after theirs did.

 

Sometimes I get them before others do, there's just no way to know.

 

We have a pretty tight caching community here in the AGA, so it's not uncommon for us to call another cacher and give them a heads-up that a new cache has just been published near them, or put a shout out on the DixieCachers.com forum so that everyone can see it.

 

Many times we'll put a heads up in the forum, saying that we've submitted a listing, watch for it to be published. That way anyone who so desires can be ready to go.

 

About half of my DNFs were pure luck - load a PQ and go follow the GPS from cache to cache without reading the listings and luck up on new hides.

 

Two of the FTF regulars in my area delight in finding it first, signing it and not logging it online, so that you get there thinking "Oh Yeah!, FTF!", open the log and there's OBH's signature. Curses, foiled again! That's as much fun as actually being FTF.

 

I had one show up that was forty-something miles from home, out in the country way south of where any of the regular FTFers live. I saw the notice when I got up, but had a conference call to attend. It was a rainy foggy morning, and I figured that would deter most folks. When done with my work I figured that a few hours wouldn't matter for one so far off the beaten path, especially considering the weather, and set out. Maybe a half-mile hike up and down a hilly muddy power line and I find the cache at 12:03 - Woohoo! Open the log and 3Card had signed it at 12:00. Ouch, beaten by 3 minutes! But wait, I hadn't passed him on the trail, and didn't see another one, so he has to still be here, I figure he heard me coming and is hiding watching nearby. I look all around me waiting on him to step out to laugh at me, no 3Card. I look more carefully at the log - he'd signed it at midnight!

 

3Card has a full-time job, a wife and young children, but he's out scoring an FTF an hour from home at midnight in the rain! THAT's desire!

 

As others have mentioned it's about desire more than capability.

 

Our reviewing tends to get done in the morning or evening... If you are willing to leave the house at 11 p.m. and go for the cache you stand a good chance of being first.

 

If "Oh man, I have to work tomorrow and need my sleep" stops you then it isn't a lack of capability, it's lack of desire!

 

A cache designed to be an FTF-gimmee for folks who lack the desire to go when it's published? Um, no thanks!

 

This echos my sentiment exactly.

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I believe that many people who complain about local hounds getting all the FTFs, just aren't willing to do what it takes to go and get them. A few 2TFs shouldn't cause people to stop trying, and sit at home and complain instead.

 

I don't see much complaining in this post just people pointing out why they may not get them. The fact remains that you have to be a geohound to get them and thats the way the game has evolved. I don't have a problem with that.

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FTF-hounding isn't really a "skill" though. The two major factors are 1) circumstance and 2) proximity.

 

I agree with those two factors, but I'd say another big factor is WILLINGNESS. There are those who would love an FTF but say to themselves "Heck, I probably won't be first, so I won't bother making an attempt".

 

Although having flexible hours, and technology helps, I don't buy the argument that you need those things to get FTFs. Most of my FTFs were done on weekends or after work, and I have never had instant notification to my phone/PDA.

 

If you re-read my reply in it's entirety and in context of who I was replying to I think you'll see the point in emphasis on those two factors.

 

People seem to be forgetting that without the right circumstances which enable you to get out quickly and without being in close proximity to where caches are published more frequently you can have all the willingness in the world and it won't do a bit of good.

 

The point isn't to say willingness is not a factor. The point is that "will power", "interest", "willingness" and the like are all for naught if you don't have the right circumstance. Really, for all practical purposes proximity could be considered part of ones circumstance.

 

Agreed that proximity is very important, and for my purposes it's assumed as I won't travel more than say 15 miles one-way for an FTF.

 

Assuming that proximity and circumstances are right, I believe that some people who would love an FTF are just not willing to go for them. The reasons could be many (i.e. they won't cache at night, they just sat down to dinner, they assume that the local hound will beat them).

 

I believe that many people who complain about local hounds getting all the FTFs, just aren't willing to do what it takes to go and get them. A few 2TFs shouldn't cause people to stop trying, and sit at home and complain instead.

 

Look, I am not asserting that there are not people who fall into the category of "I believe that some people who would love an FTF are just not willing to go for them". I agree with that whole-heartedly.

 

I was just making the point because people were asserting the "will power" and "interest" arguments and I am saying it's not quite that simple.

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I was just making the point because people were asserting the "will power" and "interest" arguments and I am saying it's not quite that simple.

 

There are many factors that play a role. The randomness of those factors is what makes it exciting and fun going after FTF. If any of those factors were forced or laid out ahead of time, I would have a big problem with it. These are the factors as I see them:

 

- Proximity to cache location when published

- Time of day/night

- Availability when cache published

- Understanding spouse/significant other/girlfriend/boyfriend/pet

- Ability to get notification in a timely manner (technology)

- Ability to get from point A to point B in a timely fashion

- Ability to find actual cache in a timely fashion

 

All of these are directly related to "THE WILL TO BE FTF"

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I don't see it as penalizing or handing it to anybody, I think it would just give some others a chance.

 

Is it more of a challenge when you are the only one looking or when someone else is there at the same time?

 

New caches come out All the time, you can't just miss one?

 

If you take the game that seriously are you still having fun? :(

 

Then hide a cache and don't list it on GC.com.

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I don't see it as penalizing or handing it to anybody, I think it would just give some others a chance.

 

Is it more of a challenge when you are the only one looking or when someone else is there at the same time?

 

New caches come out All the time, you can't just miss one?

 

If you take the game that seriously are you still having fun? :(

 

Then hide a cache and don't list it on GC.com.

 

You obviously missed my point.

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I don't see it as penalizing or handing it to anybody, I think it would just give some others a chance.

 

Everybody in the local area already has a chance. They just might not be willing to make the effort.

Why reward them and punish those who work for it?

 

Willing, or maybe able.

 

If someone is able to geocache they are able to get a FTF. They just need to be willing to leave the house at 3 am, or midnight or whatever instant the caches are published. It's not something that I'm willing to do, so my FTFs are rare.

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I don't see it as penalizing or handing it to anybody, I think it would just give some others a chance.

 

Everybody in the local area already has a chance. They just might not be willing to make the effort.

Why reward them and punish those who work for it?

 

Willing, or maybe able.

 

If someone is able to geocache they are able to get a FTF. They just need to be willing to leave the house at 3 am, or midnight or whatever instant the caches are published. It's not something that I'm willing to do, so my FTFs are rare.

 

I wasn't contesting that they couldn't ever get a FTF. I am just emphasizing that it's not strictly a matter of will.

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Hi, my name is John.

 

Groundspeak forum users: "hi John"

 

and I'm a FTF hound. I love the thrill of knowing that there are others looking for what I am looking for and that no one has found it yet. I enjoy the possibility that I might encounter another cacher on my journey and we will have a chance to talk. I take lunch breaks with no lunch to go search. I will postpone comming home until I have found that FTF. It's the thrill of the chase that excites me. It's the drive that makes me go out there and do it. Hell, I fried my GPSr during the second to last FTF I have and still found it and the next FTF cache without my GPSr at all! It's all about who wants it badly enough.

 

Streak Extender No. 5

Streak Extender - Fast Pitch

 

To sum up what I am trying to convey, if they want it that bad, they will go out and get it. Concentrate on other aspects of hiding a great cache.

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