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Logging a find when they clearly didn't


PsYkO.ns

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Hey,

 

I just deleted someones find on one of my caches because of the following log:

 

Log Date: 1/6/2008

Found it WAY to many muggles around to get it though...

 

how can a person claim a find when they don't actually touch the cache let alone sign the log?

Either because they are newbies and do not understand the rules of the game, or because their minds reason in radically different ways than do yours or mine and/or because they have the ethics (or lack thereof) and commonsense (or lack thereof) of a penguin in heat.

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I do like to see my numbers clocking up, but i also like to feel the atchievement of knowing that i found 30 Caches...

I've been watching a cache for a while as it is on a TB Rescue list and i was thrilled last week when i got an e-mail saying the cache had been found. When i looked to see if they had picked up the bug i discovered that they hadn't found the cache, they logged as having found the cache 2 months before it was even placed... It has been there 3 years and this guy has only been caching about 6 months.

 

I haven't said anything to the cacher or the owner but it just irks me.

 

Anyway, thank you for the vent.

Happy Caching.

 

Ljay

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I believe King Boreas says it best on his GC profile

 

"For the Geocaching "purists" and Geopolice:

My "found" count includes multiple attended logs on event pages for temporary caches at the event. If this offends your delicate sensibilities, feel free to deduct for those finds- or even ignore the event cache logs completely. Better yet, just skip looking at my stats altogether. They are my own stats, for my own enjoyment- not for you to look at and judge how I play the game or your opinion of my personal ethics. If you don't like it, frankly I don't care."

 

This applies to all cachers. Worry about your own caching experience and let others have theirs. They are only making it less fun for themselves. There would be little worry about them setting an example with their inexperience.

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I believe King Boreas says it best on his GC profile

 

"For the Geocaching "purists" and Geopolice:

My "found" count includes multiple attended logs on event pages for temporary caches at the event. If this offends your delicate sensibilities, feel free to deduct for those finds- or even ignore the event cache logs completely. Better yet, just skip looking at my stats altogether. They are my own stats, for my own enjoyment- not for you to look at and judge how I play the game or your opinion of my personal ethics. If you don't like it, frankly I don't care."

 

This applies to all cachers. Worry about your own caching experience and let others have theirs. They are only making it less fun for themselves. There would be little worry about them setting an example with their inexperience.

 

Yeah what you and KB said. Butttt................. last summer we had two couples from down there near the Kansas/Missouri/Oklahoma area somewhere who had something like 5000 plus caches. Lo and behold they came through our area and logged a bunch of caches. The red lights started flashing when they were stated to be in like 4 states this particular day and had a LOT of caches.. Not that one can't find a lot of caches in several states in one day but it was hokey. Upon checking our logs they had actually only signed something like 3 logs out of 7 or so. The same with other local cache hiders in the area. Upon deleted their unsigned logs they messaged us each time saying they had "forgotten" to sign the log. How does one with so many caches "forget" to sign their logs? I don't really care if they have 10,000 caches right now.. I know when i look at their numbers i see LOTS less. I know if they are in my neighborhood again that they are not trustworthy and I know its the principle of the whole thing. I also know I can wake up in the morning and know i didn't cheat or smudge my numbers and that the cache count you see is my actual cache count found. And I know they are the only ones who have to live with their fake cache numbers. :anicute: JMHO!! :D:D Don't you just love caching? LOL!! :laughing::o

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I believe King Boreas says it best on his GC profile

 

"For the Geocaching "purists" and Geopolice:

My "found" count includes multiple attended logs on event pages for temporary caches at the event. If this offends your delicate sensibilities, feel free to deduct for those finds- or even ignore the event cache logs completely. Better yet, just skip looking at my stats altogether. They are my own stats, for my own enjoyment- not for you to look at and judge how I play the game or your opinion of my personal ethics. If you don't like it, frankly I don't care."

 

This applies to all cachers. Worry about your own caching experience and let others have theirs. They are only making it less fun for themselves. There would be little worry about them setting an example with their inexperience.

 

Ah the ol' if-you-don't-let-me-log-your-cache-even-if-I-didn't-find-it-you-and-everybody-who-agrees-with-you-are-all-of-bunch-of-police-gurks.

 

I've heard it somewhere before.

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Some believe there is a common definition of what it means to find a cache and the found it log should only be used when you have met all the requirements of the universally agreed upon definition. Others believe the found it log is a tool for cachers to use to keep track of which caches they think they have found. Neither of these 'beliefs' are accurate definitions of the what a found it log represents.

 

According to the guidelines for cache maintenance, the cache owned should delete any logs that appear to be bogus, counterfeit, off topic, or not within the stated requirements. This give the cache owner sole rights to define what they will accept as a find on their cache. Definitions tend to vary widely between cachers. Many will allow any found it log to stand while others will check the log after each find to see if the cacher actually did sign the log.

 

In the case of the OP, we see a finder who felt that since they saw the cache it was a find for them. One might even make the argument that they were protecting the cache by not retrieving it and signing the log with muggles around. Of course they don't know whether the owner intended the muggles to be part of the challenge to find this cache (unless the owner used the Stealth Required attribute). It is not unreasonable for the finder in this case to post a provisional found it log. Perhaps the cache owner will agree that seeing the cache is finding it and would appreciate that the cache's location was not compromised to muggles. However, the cache owner would be within his rights to delete the found it log. It would be polite to email the finder to indicate the reason the Found It log was deleted. The finder may or may not accept the cache owners definition of a find in this case, but the way the site is set up the cache owner is the one who decides what constitutes a find.

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If it was my Cache...I would not care. If that is what they want to do...then fine with me. This is a game...and numbers are just personal numbers...they don't affect anything but that geocachers totals. If he had 1 million finds...so, what.

 

That would be great if these bogus finds didn't affect you, but they can. A "found it" essentially tells other geocachers that the cache is there. I wasted my gas and nearly an hour of my time searching for a cache that was gone. Had I seen recent DNFs I would have went for a different one, but the cache had recent "found its" that turned out to be bogus.

 

I also know one geocacher who was lured into fruitless 100 mile RT after someone logged a bogus find on a cache long thought missing.

 

It also affects cache owners. If the cache is missing, a bogus find can delay needed maintenance. A cache of mine had several DNFs and I was about to head out there and check on it when a "found it" log appeared. Great! No problem, so I don't have to worry about it. Well something about the log was fishy to me, so I checked into it and it turned out to be a phony find. Turned out there was a problem with the cache that I nearly ignored thanks to some liar who gets his jollies by logging fake finds.

 

This game isn't solitaire. Our actions do not occur in a vacuum. What we do can and does affect other geocachers.

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I don't know what game those other people are playing. But it doesn't seem to be geocaching.

I'll go by the guidelines:

What are the rules in Geocaching?

Geocaching is a relatively new phenomenon. Therefore, the rules are very simple:

Take something from the cache

Leave something in the cache

Write about it in the logbook

 

Find cache. Sign log. Log online. Get smiley.

If you don't find the cache, you don't get a smiley.

If you don't dign the log, you don't get a smiley.

If you don't log online, you don't get a smiley.

 

Seems fairly simple.

 

In OP's example, the cacher did not sign the log. Sorry, no smiley. I love the response "But that's how we do it where I come from." Really? Most cachers where you come from sign the log book if they wish to claim a find.

Some people seem to be upset that we (or I) want to regulate how they play the game. I haven't figured out what game they are playing. It doesn't seem to be geocaching, though. I have met a few cachers who do not log on-line. I've always wondered about that, but they aren't claiming a smiley.

Yes, I saw a cache twenty feet up a tree, that I was not about to climb. DNF. That seemed simple to me.

Muggles? They're always part of the challenge (whether it be an urban or a rural cache.) Yup. I've waited a half hour for a muggle to stop sunbathing on the bench where the cache was hidden. If he'd outlasted me, it would have been a DNF. One of our better ploys was to get two other goecachers to point across the lake, and shout: Look at THAT! All eyes turned, and cache was secured.

But tell me: "Oh, I didn't bother signing the log", guess what! That's a DNF. I do not know what game they are playing, but it's not geocaching.

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I don't know what game those other people are playing. But it doesn't seem to be geocaching.

I'll go by the guidelines:

What are the rules in Geocaching?

Geocaching is a relatively new phenomenon. Therefore, the rules are very simple:

Take something from the cache

Leave something in the cache

Write about it in the logbook

 

Find cache. Sign log. Log online. Get smiley.

If you don't find the cache, you don't get a smiley.

If you don't dign the log, you don't get a smiley.

If you don't log online, you don't get a smiley.

 

Seems fairly simple.

 

In OP's example, the cacher did not sign the log. Sorry, no smiley. I love the response "But that's how we do it where I come from." Really? Most cachers where you come from sign the log book if they wish to claim a find.

Some people seem to be upset that we (or I) want to regulate how they play the game. I haven't figured out what game they are playing. It doesn't seem to be geocaching, though. I have met a few cachers who do not log on-line. I've always wondered about that, but they aren't claiming a smiley.

Yes, I saw a cache twenty feet up a tree, that I was not about to climb. DNF. That seemed simple to me.

Muggles? They're always part of the challenge (whether it be an urban or a rural cache.) Yup. I've waited a half hour for a muggle to stop sunbathing on the bench where the cache was hidden. If he'd outlasted me, it would have been a DNF. One of our better ploys was to get two other goecachers to point across the lake, and shout: Look at THAT! All eyes turned, and cache was secured.

But tell me: "Oh, I didn't bother signing the log", guess what! That's a DNF. I do not know what game they are playing, but it's not geocaching.

 

It's called "Screwup and blab about it". :huh::rolleyes:;)

 

Why some people are so eager to rat themselves out is a mystery to me.

 

The only thing that I can figure is that for some perverse reason, they are actually proud of them little selves, who knows? ;):P:D

Edited by Team Cotati
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Does anyone know of a person who logged a DNF without visiting the cache? I mean, heck, if someone is going to log a find without actually visiting the site or handling the cache, shouldn't they log their DNF's too?

 

I think it'd be pretty rude if they didn't.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

<edit: /sarcasm for those who think I'm serious>

Edited by ScoutingWV
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