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Some cachers put alot of creativity and time into making their caches more difficult and exciting for other cachers who enjoy a challenge. I feel that if you can't except the challenge, then give up! Go look for skirt lifters or a pile of sticks and be happy. I personally came to the conclusion long ago that I would not find every cache I seek! Is it fair to post your thoughts and hints on the www for everyone or should we as fellow cachers be respectful of those who actually put thought into the caches? What is your postion and thoughts? SBK

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I have seen in a few areas a real tendancy to have a very complete phone-a-friend network or they blow through my area and send me an email like "Camping here for the night couldn't find caches gcxxxx and gc xxxx and gc xxxxx - give me more clues while I am here".

 

Seems like they just can't stand it if they cannot find each and every cache within 15 mintes of being on scene.

 

I don't participate until I see a few DNFs and a heartfelt plea - and then only if it is my cache.

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Phone-A-Friend is completely different than posting spoilers online.

 

We have an extensive PAF network here in Alabama and encourage folks to use it - as a matter of fact the AGA gave me a trophy at our yearly dinner for Most Helpful PAF.

 

There is rarely a cache that we can't reach the owner or a previous finder by telephone to get a clue when we need one.

 

Cache owners can make it known that they don't want clues given, but I only know of one in Alabama who has, and then not on all of his caches but just one particular puzzle cache.

 

Maybe we have a different collective mind-set here, but we don't see any entertainment or value in DNFs!

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... Is it fair to post your thoughts and hints on the www for everyone or should we as fellow cachers be respectful of those who actually put thought into the caches? What is your postion and thoughts? SBK

 

Posting hints and spoilers shows a lack of respect for both the owner and future finders. Posting them robs the owner of the experience they were trying to create by putting that cache out to be found. Posting them robs the finders of the experience that was intended and it also cheapens the value of the find for those who did it as intended. Spoilers can turn the best challenges into park and grabs.

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Phone-A-Friend is completely different than posting spoilers online.

 

We have an extensive PAF network here in Alabama and encourage folks to use it - as a matter of fact the AGA gave me a trophy at our yearly dinner for Most Helpful PAF.

 

There is rarely a cache that we can't reach the owner or a previous finder by telephone to get a clue when we need one.

 

Cache owners can make it known that they don't want clues given, but I only know of one in Alabama who has, and then not on all of his caches but just one particular puzzle cache.

 

Maybe we have a different collective mind-set here, but we don't see any entertainment or value in DNFs!

Post it online for others to read or have them call you up and you will tell them??!!!!??

 

I don't see much difference.

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I personally dislike posting of spoilers on cache pages. The owner created the cache and any clues for you to find. This also sets the difficulty when done correctly. Posting of spoilers is the same as changing a 5 difficulty to a 1. I am currently working on a 5/5 for placement when all the details / hides are finalized. How fair would it be for someone to bypass all my planning and work just so the next finder doesn't have to put any real effort into it?

 

Just my thoughts.

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Post it online for others to read or have them call you up and you will tell them??!!!!??

 

I don't see much difference.

 

I hate it when I am looking at a cache description and I scroll through the latest few logs and see "Wow! Putting the box under that third tunnel truss made it quite a reach!" or something ridiculously revealing. I think Groundspeak tried to help with such things by making it possible for them to encrypt log entries but most of the people I see who insist on posting spoilers either don't use encryption or are ignorant of it.

 

On the other hand, PAF isn't something on the cache description page that sticks out and jumps into your cognitive senses as you review the typical cache info. You have to make a concerted effort to seek out PAF and obtain information and, I must admit, after the third or fourth time I've been to a cache without a find, I start to really wish I could PAF.

 

;)

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Phone-A-Friend is completely different than posting spoilers online.

 

We have an extensive PAF network here in Alabama and encourage folks to use it - as a matter of fact the AGA gave me a trophy at our yearly dinner for Most Helpful PAF.

 

There is rarely a cache that we can't reach the owner or a previous finder by telephone to get a clue when we need one.

 

Cache owners can make it known that they don't want clues given, but I only know of one in Alabama who has, and then not on all of his caches but just one particular puzzle cache.

 

Maybe we have a different collective mind-set here, but we don't see any entertainment or value in DNFs!

 

I've got friends in Birmingham I'm planning to visit this year.... gimme your #!!! ;)

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As mentioned there is the encrypt option. I encrypt parts of my log if I think they might even slightly give the location away moreso than the cache name or description already will. And I would delete a log and ask the finder to repost with encryption if they screwed up my hide creativity that much. Now if the hider doesn't fix things in the logs, then you can assume they fine with the extra clues. So leave the issue alone if it's not yours and yay; it's all good! ;)

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Phone-A-Friend is completely different than posting spoilers online.

 

I don't see the difference. If I intentionally create a challenging cache it's irrelevant to me whether

the searchers obtained their spoiler info from a log, or by calling a previous finder.

 

The only difference I see is that PAF is at least discrete and doesn't require the owner to edit/maintain logs.

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Hey, I'll post here. :anibad:

 

As I stated elsewhere...

 

As a hider:

Something to nudge someome in the right direction would be acceptable...

For example, I'm looking for a number not divisable by 2.

Hint: Hey, You're looking for an odd number... maybe... :anicute:

 

A complete spoiler:

I'd be unhappy with that, and would possibly archive, and put a regular film can micro in it's place.

 

As a finder:

Honestly, I don't want to know. I 100% guarentee there are some that I will never solve/find. I'm OK with that, but if I do find/solve it, that smiley is something I'll remember for a while. :anibad:

 

Back to hibernation...

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Phone-A-Friend is completely different than posting spoilers online.

 

I don't see the difference. If I intentionally create a challenging cache it's irrelevant to me whether

the searchers obtained their spoiler info from a log, or by calling a previous finder.

I couldn't agree more. Cachers should ask the cache owner for hints, not previous finders. People are really bold about it in my area - "couldn't find it so I called a friend and they told me where it was". That's a spoiler!

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I think PAF:ing is cheating (could be because I have neither a P nor an F).

 

Had I created a clever cache that required any thinking, I would not be happy if a log revealed the spot, even if encrypted.

 

I would tend to agree...although, it may be possible to PAF and discuss it in a way that isn't, I would tend to think any kind of information outside of what is posted that assists in the find is essentially a spoiler, technically.

 

Then again, if people want a little nudge and can be given one without blatent give aways I don't have a problem with PAF. I can see both sides.

 

There is a PAF network in our area, but I have never used it and don't know how it gets used...I'll have to ask at the next gathering to get a feel for it. Might alter my opinion...

Edited by egami
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I recently hid one - and think I handled the hint/clue pretty well in the description. I wrote: "Take the clue with you – but do your best NOT to use it unless you really need it!"

 

Also - I think that gives the finder the idea they really shouldn't post a spoiler in their log.

 

Just a thought.

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It doesn't bother me if others give hints or clues to where the cache is in their own comments, just as long as they encrypt that part for those that do not want them. Sometimes, when I am having trouble finding a certain cache, it helps me to read the comments others have left. However, I do not feel that it is ok to give hints/clues in your commenst without encrytpting them. It is not ok to ruin the hunt for someone else by blabbing where it is without encrypting those comments. Of course, if in the description of the cache, the owner asks that you do not leave clues/hints in your comments, even encrypted ones, I would respect his/her wishes.

 

I am one of these people who would get completely bugged when I cannot find a certain cache that I have searched again and again for. I have not done this yet, but I don't see anything wrong with contacting/sending a message to the owner of the cache for a hint. I just recently placed my own first cache and I would hate it if a person searched several times for it and never found it. I think you should search, I mean really search, for the cache at least 3 separate times before contacting the owner about a hint though.

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Phone-A-Friend is completely different than posting spoilers online.

 

There is rarely a cache that we can't reach the owner or a previous finder by telephone to get a clue when we need one.

 

:anicute: ??

 

Uh, it looks like a duck. It sounds like a duck.

 

EM R DUCKS!

 

Oze R not!

 

Em R two! See um WANGS?

 

Ell I'll bee. Em R DUCKS!

 

Those telephone spoilers are still spoilers. It is a duck.

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Uh, it looks like a duck. It sounds like a duck.

...

Those telephone spoilers are still spoilers. It is a duck.

I agree. The only difference I can see between a spoiler log and a PAF spoiler is that, with a PAF, the spoiler is relayed to just one cacher at a time (who can then pass on the spoiler the same way to the next cacher who has difficulty). PAF spreads the secret a bit more slowly, and only to those who are "in" on the PAF network, but the end result is the same.

 

On a couple of occasions, when I've had trouble finding a cache far away from home and the cache owner can't be found to ask for a hint, I've tried to phone a friend who could hopefully give me a subtle hint to put me in the right direction. In both cases so far, I wasn't even able to get hold of the friend in time. And if I did, I'd never ask them for a spoiler, just a hint.

 

--Larry

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Phone-A-Friend is completely different than posting spoilers online.

 

We have an extensive PAF network here in Alabama and encourage folks to use it - as a matter of fact the AGA gave me a trophy at our yearly dinner for Most Helpful PAF.

 

There is rarely a cache that we can't reach the owner or a previous finder by telephone to get a clue when we need one.

 

Cache owners can make it known that they don't want clues given, but I only know of one in Alabama who has, and then not on all of his caches but just one particular puzzle cache.

 

Maybe we have a different collective mind-set here, but we don't see any entertainment or value in DNFs!

 

I've got friends in Birmingham I'm planning to visit this year.... gimme your #!!! :anicute:

Come on down!

 

Ed

205-914-6814

TheAlabamaRambler@gmail.com

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I'll email and ask for clues if I make a couple DNF trips to the same cache. I still want to find it but I don't want to be told where it is.

And that's the beauty of PAF - we rarely give the cache away, same as when we cache with others at a cache we've been to before.

 

In person or on the phone, if someone asks for a hint that's what they get!

 

If they ask for more info I ask how much do they want to know, where it is or a better hint. They almost always just want a good clue to get them on track.

 

If they just can't find it and ask where it is I will tell them, barring any information that I know the cache owner has said he doesn't want disclosed... as I mentioned earlier I am aware of only one puzzle cache where the owner has requested clues not be given in Alabama.

 

Most Phone-A-Friend requests come from people on the road who won't be back in the area for a while if ever, though some come from locals who just want to find the thing.

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I'll email and ask for clues if I make a couple DNF trips to the same cache. I still want to find it but I don't want to be told where it is.

And that's the beauty of PAF - we rarely give the cache away, same as when we cache with others at a cache we've been to before.

 

In person or on the phone, if someone asks for a hint that's what they get!

 

If they ask for more info I ask how much do they want to know, where it is or a better hint. They almost always just want a good clue to get them on track.

 

If they just can't find it and ask where it is I will tell them, barring any information that I know the cache owner has said he doesn't want disclosed... as I mentioned earlier I am aware of only one puzzle cache where the owner has requested clues not be given in Alabama.

 

Most Phone-A-Friend requests come from people on the road who won't be back in the area for a while if ever, though some come from locals who just want to find the thing.

 

Yeah, this may not be as bad as it sounds...probably more of one of the "purist" issues...I can see both sides.

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Phone-A-Friend is completely different than posting spoilers online.

 

There is rarely a cache that we can't reach the owner or a previous finder by telephone to get a clue when we need one.

 

:anicute: ??

 

Uh, it looks like a duck. It sounds like a duck.

 

EM R DUCKS!

 

Oze R not!

 

Em R two! See um WANGS?

 

Ell I'll bee. Em R DUCKS!

 

Those telephone spoilers are still spoilers. It is a duck.

 

Actually it reads like this:

 

M R DUCKS

M R NOT

O S M R

C M WANGS

L I B

M R DUCKS

 

Anyhoo, it's clear to me that a written spoiler posted for all the world to see whether they wanted to see it or not is quite different than a cacher who wants a clue calling someone from the site so they don't have to come back.

 

YMMV, if you don't want a clue don't call and ask for one! :anibad:

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If the goal is to make it hard to find then is it not just as good a feeling to be told "I had to use a PAF" Or "I had a nudge from cacher X" when they log your cache? They are admitting your nano in the woods was hard to find. I don't care how someone finds my caches, just that they eventually do find them. After hiking out to my cache on a bluff overlooking the ocean and they take in all the scenery, got some exercise, should I really get worked up if they couldn't locate the cache and called for help? People call for help when they are stumped. Not before heading out the door to go caching. Is this different than posting spoilers on the cache page? Yes. Posting a spoiler in you online log I would call poor etiquette, encrypted or not.

Edited by Bad Duck
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Phone-A-Friend is completely different than posting spoilers online.

 

I don't see the difference. If I intentionally create a challenging cache it's irrelevant to me whether

the searchers obtained their spoiler info from a log, or by calling a previous finder.

I couldn't agree more. Cachers should ask the cache owner for hints, not previous finders. People are really bold about it in my area - "couldn't find it so I called a friend and they told me where it was". That's a spoiler!

 

That's no spoiler. That's just plain stupid. :anicute::P:anibad:

Why do people think that they must blab their freaking butt off for every little thing that they do? Criminnie.

If I PAF, only two people on the face of the earth will know. And I for one will sure as heckfire won't be posting it anywhere.

 

I just do not get it. What, do they call their Mommy and ask permission to go pee pee? :anibad::P:anibad:

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Phone-A-Friend is completely different than posting spoilers online.

 

I don't see the difference. If I intentionally create a challenging cache it's irrelevant to me whether

the searchers obtained their spoiler info from a log, or by calling a previous finder.

 

The only difference I see is that PAF is at least discrete and doesn't require the owner to edit/maintain logs.

 

As an owner I can delete a log with spoiler. I have no control over people calling each other looking for spoilers. If I took the trouble to hide a challenging cache, it would gall me if people were giving the secret to

cache away.

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Phone-A-Friend is completely different than posting spoilers online.

 

I don't see the difference. If I intentionally create a challenging cache it's irrelevant to me whether

the searchers obtained their spoiler info from a log, or by calling a previous finder.

 

The only difference I see is that PAF is at least discrete and doesn't require the owner to edit/maintain logs.

 

As an owner I can delete a log with spoiler. I have no control over people calling each other looking for spoilers. If I took the trouble to hide a challenging cache, it would gall me if people were giving the secret to

cache away.

Thanks for the edit.

 

Not to stray too far off topic, but would it gall you to put on your cache listing "Please, give or post no clues, if a cacher wants one they should email me" to give those of us who do PAF a heads up?

 

How about yet another attribute that says "PAF Allowed"? The default would be no and cache owners that allow it could select it.

Edited by TheAlabamaRambler
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Phone-A-Friend is completely different than posting spoilers online.

 

I don't see the difference. If I intentionally create a challenging cache it's irrelevant to me whether

the searchers obtained their spoiler info from a log, or by calling a previous finder.

 

The only difference I see is that PAF is at least discrete and doesn't require the owner to edit/maintain logs.

 

As an owner I can delete a log with spoiler. I have no control over people calling each other looking for spoilers. If I took the trouble to hide a challenging cache, it would gall me if people were giving the secret to

cache away.

 

I am not disagreeing, per se. I was just making the distinction. :anicute:

 

At least with PAF you don't have to maintain it and people who are more purist don't run the risk of inadvertantly getting that data in GSAK or something before you can edit it as an owner.

 

And, I agree with the thought that the encryption method is a fair middle ground. If I hid a real good cache the way I look at it...I am not going to necessarily impede people that need extra help, so long as they encrypt it so it's not blatently obvious.

Edited by egami
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Phone-A-Friend is completely different than posting spoilers online.

 

We have an extensive PAF network here in Alabama and encourage folks to use it - as a matter of fact the AGA gave me a trophy at our yearly dinner for Most Helpful PAF.

 

There is rarely a cache that we can't reach the owner or a previous finder by telephone to get a clue when we need one.

 

Cache owners can make it known that they don't want clues given, but I only know of one in Alabama who has, and then not on all of his caches but just one particular puzzle cache.

 

Maybe we have a different collective mind-set here, but we don't see any entertainment or value in DNFs!

 

For the most part, I hate PAF. Phone the owner... that's fine. But let the owner have control over what hints are given, not previous finders. I have phoned previous finders on a couple of very difficult and DISTANT caches that I most likely would not have returned to, but I still tried to get ahold of the cache owners first.

 

There IS entertainment value in DNFs. If a fisherman caught and landed every fish that he tried for, he probably would soon find another sport that challenged him more. Its the ones that got away that you remember.

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Phone-A-Friend is completely different than posting spoilers online.

 

I don't see the difference. If I intentionally create a challenging cache it's irrelevant to me whether

the searchers obtained their spoiler info from a log, or by calling a previous finder.

 

The only difference I see is that PAF is at least discrete and doesn't require the owner to edit/maintain logs.

 

As an owner I can delete a log with spoiler. I have no control over people calling each other looking for spoilers. If I took the trouble to hide a challenging cache, it would gall me if people were giving the secret to

cache away.

Galls me on a consistant basis. Right on Mister Snat! Can't find it? Go home, log a DNF, and contact the cache owner for a hint.

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Phone-A-Friend is completely different than posting spoilers online.

 

I don't see the difference. If I intentionally create a challenging cache it's irrelevant to me whether

the searchers obtained their spoiler info from a log, or by calling a previous finder.

I couldn't agree more. Cachers should ask the cache owner for hints, not previous finders. People are really bold about it in my area - "couldn't find it so I called a friend and they told me where it was". That's a spoiler!

 

I agree. I was recently at a group event and I mentioned that I was going for try # 3 on a difficult cache. Several of the other cachers had made the find but everyone was careful to speak in very generic terms when discussing this cache in front of me. I really appreciated that. Another time I was with a cache owner and I was led to the cache. I appreciated the good intentions of the owner but it just didn't feel as good as making the find on my own.

 

But, as always... different strokes...

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And, I agree with the thought that the encryption method is a fair middle ground. If I hid a real good cache the way I look at it...I am not going to necessarily impede people that need extra help, so long as they encrypt it so it's not blatently obvious.

 

I don't see the encryption method to be an answer. An encrypted log just begs "look at me".

 

Not to stray too far off topic, but would it gall you to put on your cache listing "Please, give or post no clues, if a cacher wants one they should email me" to give those of us who do PAF a heads up?

 

I would think that should go without saying. This nonsensical sense of entitlement that so many people have is disturbing. "I was there so by golly I'm getting that smiley no matter what". If you can't find it log a DNF and if you want a hint ask the owner and let him decide if he wants to give out one.

 

Too many people think they are owed something in this world and that mindset has unfortunately trickled into geocaching.

Edited by briansnat
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And, I agree with the thought that the encryption method is a fair middle ground. If I hid a real good cache the way I look at it...I am not going to necessarily impede people that need extra help, so long as they encrypt it so it's not blatently obvious.

 

I don't see the encryption method to be an answer. An encrypted log just begs "look at me".

 

Well, that's subjective...and the point wasn't so much that it was 'the' answer, but I don't think it's fair to say it's not an answer.

 

True, there is that "look at me" aspect, and some deal better than others, but conversely at least it's discrete and at the end of the day the cache owner still has final authority. I guess if that isn't the point of it being implemented I don't see what it was...

Edited by egami
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At a recent event, I was asked for a business card. I obliged. Then the guy told me he would be visiting the area and I should "expect a few calls" so he didn't have any DNF logs. I am certain he was refferring to much more than just my caches. Sure enough, another local cacher and I got about 10 calls each a few weekends later. The guy looked for about 15 minutes and then would call "for some help". I was polite at first and refused any help if it wasn't my cache. Finally told the guy that he should spend a bit more time looking and not be so afraid of DNFs. He very proudly told me he has never logged a DNF unless the cache was for sure missing and "back home" everybody called each other to find where the caches are.

 

I checked and the guy had logged about 400 caches in 3 months. I suppose it would be a lot easier to do that if someboy would be willing to tell you where to look.

 

I think it is just wrong to have so extesive a PAF that you never need to do a DNF.

 

About 1 in 7 of my hunts turns into a DNF. I've got no problem with that.

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So, a couple of questions come to mind.

 

1. Who says PAF doesn't include the owner of the cache? Most of the people I know try to contact the owner first.

 

2. Who says PAF is always a spoiler? Phoning the owner for a hint or emailing the owner for a hint is different how? The few times I've been called - as a non-owner - I passed on the same hint I was given by the owner. As an owner, I give hints, very seldom more.

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I checked and the guy had logged about 400 caches in 3 months. I suppose it would be a lot easier to do that if someboy would be willing to tell you where to look.

 

We have someone in my area that's the same way - mega numbers in a short time. If she's can't find it in 10 minutes or so she calls the PAF. How about learning how to find caches on your own? Yet another example of how find numbers really are meaningless.

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So, a couple of questions come to mind.

 

1. Who says PAF doesn't include the owner of the cache? Most of the people I know try to contact the owner first.

 

2. Who says PAF is always a spoiler? Phoning the owner for a hint or emailing the owner for a hint is different how? The few times I've been called - as a non-owner - I passed on the same hint I was given by the owner. As an owner, I give hints, very seldom more.

 

1. I believe PAF does in our area.

 

2. I agree it PAF may not always be a spoiler. I don't think the method of contacting the owner changes anything.

 

I think the point briansnat and others are making are on caches owned by people who don't want any clues given out beyond that which is provided in the initial cache listing.

 

And, in fairness, I think it's a valid consideration to not give clues for caches you don't own and don't know if the owner wants more clues given.

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My original answer stands, with a slight modification - it's not cool for anyone but the owner to post clear-text clues or pictures as spoilers.

 

Giving the derisive "sense of entitlement" insult a pass, PAF and encrypted clues give you total control over your caching experience - if you don't want a clue don't call and ask or decrypt one!

 

If the owner doesn't want the cache found easily s/he should rate the difficulty level appropriately and/or ask on the cache page that no clues be given, otherwise cachers have no idea what the owner's intent is.

 

I know that if I see a 4 difficulty rating I know that the owner doesn't want it found easily and am much more hesitant to give a clue than if the difficulty is 1.

 

If someone asks you for a clue and you don't like giving them, just say no!

 

If you want to be challenged and perhaps return to the cache, wonderful!

 

If I don't care to, wonderful!

 

Since all of us can be satisfied by either using or ignoring PAF and encrypted clues I don't see the issue here. You have to actively CHOOSE to use them!

 

We all cache in different ways and for different reasons - if cache owners don't state the intent how are cachers to know? It is my belief that most cache owners want their caches found and don't much care how a cacher finds them. It's a tempest in a forum teapot, again, where a few want to dictate how the rest play the game.

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I checked and the guy had logged about 400 caches in 3 months. I suppose it would be a lot easier to do that if someboy would be willing to tell you where to look.

 

We have someone in my area that's the same way - mega numbers in a short time. If she's can't find it in 10 minutes or so she calls the PAF. How about learning how to find caches on your own? Yet another example of how find numbers really are meaningless.

 

My method is better. Learn how to zip the blabber trap. Amazing. :P:unsure::P

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I generally agree with briansnat, 9key, StarBrand, and others on this issue. (Though maybe not with my own counterpart.)

 

While this site acknowledges there might be spoilers and provides a remedy for them, that does not mean they are appropriate. It does not mean you can't, but I think a reasonable person would come to the conclusion that spoilers are really not okay--if they really thought about it. Sure, mistakes happen, so what? The owner has the power to delete a log if the level of clue in a log rises beyond whatever set point they are comfortable with. Heck, sometimes an owner might even like very, very subtle clues to accumulate so new seekers can get more and more clues as they read the logs. This happens on our caches and I'm okay with it.

 

The point is the cache owner is in control of the hints on his cache page.

 

The problem comes when additional hints are provided beyond the control of the cache owner.

 

As a side note: I sure would like to see a function to hide a log, not delete or encrypt it, if I feel the logger gives away too much information. This way I don't have to take away a find and put it back on his to-do list. Additionally, I'd like to see the ability to remove my cache from the instant notification/watchlist functions of this site. If someone posts an outright spoiler it is sent to everyone who is watching my cache or has it appropriately bookmarked before the cache owner has any control of that spoiler. The ability to "moderate" logs would be a great boon in this area.

 

Hints off the cache page, PAFs, and instant notifications of logs take the control of the cache clues away from the cache owner, the person who has an invested interest in that cache. Instant notifications on all caches might have made sense in the beginning of the site, but as more and more non-traditionals are placed, especially highly creative and difficult puzzles, it no longer makes sense to allow folks to so easily post spoilers, even if inadvertently.

 

I feel no owner should have to post any nonsense on his cache page about not giving away spoilers--that should be a given. It should be a common courtesy. No one has to tell folks to not spoil the ending of a movie. It's a common courtesy. Sure, jerks do it. Guess what, they're still jerks. It also doesn't mean that because jerks do it that it is okay. I don't really care if a whole region of a state does it, that doesn't mean the rest of us have to condone it. Sure, some folks will say they don't intend to see the movie and say it's okay to talk about a certain part of the movie. I've not ever heard of someone requesting the ending of a movie with the intention of later seeing the movie. I'm sure someone has done this, but it must be pretty darn rare. Of course, I've not heard of someone buying a ticket to a movie, only sitting in on the last 10 minutes, and claiming they've "seen" the movie. Hmm... how does that relate to geocaching?

 

I think exploration of why folks need to have additional hints to the point most of the hunt is shortcutted is important. IMHO, that exploration is fairly simple. Why shortcut a hunt to the point where most, if not all, of the designed challenge is gone? Is signing the logbook that much of a thrill? Probably not when it's simply to scrawl "Team XYZ" across a page. Trinkets? Never touched. Trackables? Heck, yeah! Well, maybe, depending on whether they already have that icon.

 

So, what exactly is the reward for the above behavior?

 

Most folks are going to rightly say "the smilie!" and they'll be mostly right. For some, it's not so much the smilie, but what the smilie provides and they get it a different way.

 

Sadly, folks will justify just about any behavior they can get away with in order to get their reward.

 

In short:

  • Leave the doling of hints to the cache owner unless you're certain they don't mind.
  • Don't assume a cache owner will like others giving hints because they don't have a disclaimer on the cache page.
  • When in a group, watch the spoilers unless all in the group has completed the cache.
  • We don't mind being contacted on our caches, but do mind when it comes to others'.

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My two cents.....

 

I can understand the frustration with multiple DNF's and as a cache owner I do in the end want people to find my caches. This is why I have hints on all my hides (though sometimes the hint is something obscure that will make you laugh when you "get it").

 

On the other hand, I don't think clues/hints/phone a friends should be given out to the point where a level 4 or 5 difficulty cache becomes essentially reduced to a "1". To me, that actually takes away some of the "fun" of it and starts to actually make caching boring (while I like numbers and stats and do like to see them grow, I like more exploring new parks and the challenge; will probably be at 200 finds in the spring and will probably won't reach 300 for another year or so after that.

 

Not that any of my hides are a level 4 difficulty, though a couple probably are in the 2.5-3 range.

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