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Fake Coins in a cache


KJcachers

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Just finished a 3 mile round trip hike to retrieve an AT geocoin only to find that it was a replica wood chip in a bag with a card that had the tracking info on it. It seems somebody is collecting originals and putting fakes out in circulation in their place. Being fairly new to caching I am not sure if this is an accepted practice or something frowned on by this community. To me it tarnished an otherwise great trip up and down the mountain. Let me know if I am off base on this or what you think. I have contacted the oriinal owner to see if they did the swap or if it happened after being released. Thanks for letting me rant... :)

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We have seen some coin owners make copies of the coins and release those, although they usually mention on the coin page that it is a copy. This way the coin stays in the owner's posession instead of ending up in someone's private collection where it was never intended to be.

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Many coin owners do this because they are tired of their coins being stolen. Unfortunate, but the coin thieves out there spoil it for everyone else.

 

Then I would think the owner that does this should mention it on the coins info page so we know what we are really seeking ahead of time. thanks for the reply

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Many coin owners do this because they are tired of their coins being stolen. Unfortunate, but the coin thieves out there spoil it for everyone else.

 

Then I would think the owner that does this should mention it on the coins info page so we know what we are really seeking ahead of time. thanks for the reply

 

But why ?

:)

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Many coin owners do this because they are tired of their coins being stolen. Unfortunate, but the coin thieves out there spoil it for everyone else.

 

Then I would think the owner that does this should mention it on the coins info page so we know what we are really seeking ahead of time. thanks for the reply

 

But why ?

:)

 

Personally, I don't log coins unless it is a real coin that I am moving. Although I understand why people sometimes send out copies instead of the real thing, I just don't really care for them and find them a bit tacky. So on those, I would appreciate it if the coin page said that it was a copy.

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So cachers don't feel cheated by the fraud? Like ordering a meal at the diner, and being given a photo of a meal. I went a bit out of my way, a hundred miiles or so from home, to ge a geocoin. All I got was a cheap imitation geocoin. True, I still got the icon, but that's not the same thing.

On the other fin, I was quite amused when a cheap, imitation geocoin replica did disappear from a cache nearby.

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...

Personally, I don't log coins unless it is a real coin that I am moving. Although I understand why people sometimes send out copies instead of the real thing, I just don't really care for them and find them a bit tacky. So on those, I would appreciate it if the coin page said that it was a copy.

 

I couldn't have said it better. Too bad many cachers see it simply as another icon - no matter if it comes from a sheet of paper, or a wooden replica or a list.

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Many coin owners do this because they are tired of their coins being stolen. Unfortunate, but the coin thieves out there spoil it for everyone else.

 

Then I would think the owner that does this should mention it on the coins info page so we know what we are really seeking ahead of time. thanks for the reply

Perhaps you should consider what you seek - is it a geocache, an excursion, is it the experience that you seek, or the loot?

 

I would suggest that if the trinkets are the important part then you will often be disappointed!

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Although I understand why people sometimes send out copies instead of the real thing, I just don't really care for them and find them a bit tacky. So on those, I would appreciate it if the coin page said that it was a copy.

 

While I'm not motivated by coins in a cache - I wouldn't go out of my way for one, and generally neither move nor discover them, I really don't like coin copies. IF the original has gone missing, then I can understand the release of a a photo copy - heck might as well see a trackable move. But there's a HUGE difference between the physical item and a replica of it. Copy coins should be clearly identified as such.

 

Coin owners that keep the original and release a copy are trying to have their cake and eat it too. At the least, the coin's name should be Coin Copy...

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Many coin owners do this because they are tired of their coins being stolen. Unfortunate, but the coin thieves out there spoil it for everyone else.

 

Then I would think the owner that does this should mention it on the coins info page so we know what we are really seeking ahead of time. thanks for the reply

Perhaps you should consider what you seek - is it a geocache, an excursion, is it the experience that you seek, or the loot?

 

I would suggest that if the trinkets are the important part then you will often be disappointed!

 

That is so true. :)

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The really sad thing about geocoins that I have seen in the past couple of years is even if you see that there is a geocoin suposedly in a cache, 70% of the time it is not really there. It seems people have a problem with logging coins (and TB's) in and out of caches.

 

With that said, finding anything in a cache that is trackable is a "BONUS'. Not the reason I search for the cache.

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Guys, don't be snarky. When you're new and you think you're about to see your first cool coin that someone went to the trouble of commissioning, it's a big disappointment to get there and find something else. I felt the same way when I thought I was going to find my first travel bug, and got there to learn that it had been stolen.

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After seeing 7 out of 9 TB's missing...I won't invest in geocoins. I see them missing from my caches every now and then...never to be logged in or out again.

 

What makes me real suspicious...are these people that bring albums and boxes of different geocoins to swap meets in order to sell or trade...where did they come from?

Edited by Drooling_Mongoloid
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After seeing 7 out of 9 TB's missing...I won't invest in geocoins. I see them missing from my caches every now and then...never to be logged in or out again.

 

What makes me real suspicious...are these people that bring albums and boxes of different geocoins to swap meets in order to sell or trade...where did they come from?

 

If they've been activated you can enter the number on them and find the real owner.

I personally have several new 2006 & 2007 Indiana coins I bought that I'll probably never release simply because I know they'll quickly vanish if I do.

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I only own 2 geocoins, a Texas one and one from my home state of South Carolina. I never plan to place either of them in a geocache, but also would not put out a "copy" either. So far I have yet to find a "copy" in a geocache, but if I did I would feel somewhat disappointed. Too bad there are coin and bug thieves out there!!!

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Just finished a 3 mile round trip hike to retrieve an AT geocoin only to find that it was a replica wood chip in a bag with a card that had the tracking info on it. It seems somebody is collecting originals and putting fakes out in circulation in their place. Being fairly new to caching I am not sure if this is an accepted practice or something frowned on by this community. To me it tarnished an otherwise great trip up and down the mountain. Let me know if I am off base on this or what you think. I have contacted the oriinal owner to see if they did the swap or if it happened after being released. Thanks for letting me rant... :(

 

If I were you I would savor the excitement of the hike and the experience in the outdoors. They are far more memorable than a coin (fake or real). I have started seeing replica coins that specifically mention that they are a duplicate or replica in the item's name.

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Guys, don't be snarky. When you're new and you think you're about to see your first cool coin that someone went to the trouble of commissioning, it's a big disappointment to get there and find something else. I felt the same way when I thought I was going to find my first travel bug, and got there to learn that it had been stolen.

 

Thank You.

 

We have found many caches already missing trackable items and we try to contact the owners to make them aware of it as well as mentioning it in our logs.

This particular coin we went after with a purpose to move back to the AT which we will still do but we will make sure when we drop it to mention the copy aspect in our log for future seekers.

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I don't care much for trackables, I rarely log them.

 

But I've also been disappointed when expecting to see a cool coin in a cache only to find a laminated card with a picture of the coin.

 

I've been more disappointed when a brand new beautiful coin I was the first to move (and made a special trip across state to get it towards it's goal) was stolen 2 stops after I dropped it of. In fact mad is a better word (and it wasn't even my coin!)

 

So... I completely understand the practice, and even though I was disappointed, the picture of a sleezy coin thief going out to a cache to steal a coin and finding only the card makes it all worthwhile to me. :(

 

I actually think it'd be nice if trackables weren't listed at all on cache pages, that would likely reduce or even cure coin thieves, since it would make it much more work for them to even find one. I can see the reasons why that won't happen of course.

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What makes me real suspicious...are these people that bring albums and boxes of different geocoins to swap meets in order to sell or trade...where did they come from?

 

Yikes!!! :D This is like opening a bag of worms. I bring coins to events to share and trade so does that make me a thief. :(

 

All of us are pretty honest, I haven't ran into a thief at an event yet. Well like others, I purchase (not steal) them with my hard earned money...Why? you ask? I am not sure yet? :( But non-the-less I like to buy, trade, and set free.

 

As far a fake geocoins. I am not a fan of them either. It is a real bummer to go to a cache thinking you are coin to see a neat coin and find a cardboard replica. However, it isn't the only reason, I go to caches. I love the SWAG :laughing: Being that I collect and set coins free, I understand why some coin owners put out a replica. Most coins cost around $9. I haven't resorted to replicas yet but who knows in the future - but I would note it on the TB page.

 

Steel City Babes

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I haven't released any "copy" coins yet, but I may in the future, especially in the way of recycling the tracking number from coins (or TB's) that I know for certain have been muggled/stolen.

 

Right now I have one TB I know went past an "Event"-horizon and another that was in a cache that got muggled. I will probably re-release both numbers attached to new bugs sometime in the summer. In tha case of a coin I would note on the tracking page that it was a copy though.

 

AK

Edited by ar_kayaker
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***Yikes!!! This is like opening a bag of worms.***

 

Why would it? Either the Shoe fits or it dosn't. Either the Geocoins are yours to swap / sell or they ain't.

 

Black and White...Either you own them / have permission to trade them / have permission to sell them...or you don't.

 

***I bring coins to events to share and trade so does that make me a thief. ***

 

Only if they are registered to someone else with the intention of having that Geocoin move from cache to cache.

 

Or

 

Give me another reason ....

Edited by Drooling_Mongoloid
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I ran into my first copy coin this week. I liberated it from the cache just to have a gander at the crappy, awful job that was done on the copying. Thankfully, this has been my first and last copy coin that I will ever touch. I was so appalled by the lousy job of photocopying and writing with a marker on it before encasing it in plastic that I almost puked while gently placing it in an out of the way cache that might get found again sometime in the spring. :(

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Many coin owners do this because they are tired of their coins being stolen. Unfortunate, but the coin thieves out there spoil it for everyone else.

 

Then I would think the owner that does this should mention it on the coins info page so we know what we are really seeking ahead of time. thanks for the reply

Perhaps you should consider what you seek - is it a geocache, an excursion, is it the experience that you seek, or the loot?

 

I would suggest that if the trinkets are the important part then you will often be disappointed!

I think to demonstrate the point, would you travel all the way to Grand Canyon Village, only to look in the museum, or watch a movie about the Grand Canyon. No you wouldn't. You would go there to see the Canyon itself. I would be pretty bummed if I picked a Cache to hund because it had a coin in it that I wanted to see, and the coin was just a copy. You too would be pretty bummed if you got to a Cache site and only found some scribble on a tree that said "cache was here"

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I'm not a geocoin fanatic but i do occasionally log the niftier ones that i sometimes find. While i understand why some owners make copies of their coins, i still find them to be unacceptable for logging (my way of looking at it) since i didn't get to put my hands on the real thing.

 

As far as TAR's statement above goes,,, he is right about not being into caching for the swag. A person will surely be dissappointed if that's what he or she is looking for. But i didn't get that the OP was going that route with his post. What he was saying was that the cache page showed a coin but when he got to the cache, all he found was a cheap fake. It would be nice if owners of these copies would post in their descriptions that it is a copy. :(

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It would be nice if owners of these copies would post in their descriptions that it is a copy.

 

Am I missing something here? Are the "copy" coins mentioned in this thread the same thing as a Geocoin Proxy? If no, disregard the next comment.

 

If yes, they are listed under cache inventory as "Proxy Geocoins". So, if you see this you would know that you are going after a copy. Example: GC46EO http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...7d-7cfee184149b

 

Again, my apologies if the "copies" are a different item than a proxy.

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It would be nice if owners of these copies would post in their descriptions that it is a copy.

 

Am I missing something here? Are the "copy" coins mentioned in this thread the same thing as a Geocoin Proxy? If no, disregard the next comment.

 

If yes, they are listed under cache inventory as "Proxy Geocoins". So, if you see this you would know that you are going after a copy. Example: GC46EO http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...7d-7cfee184149b

 

Again, my apologies if the "copies" are a different item than a proxy.

Well, I guess I'm just dumb or something. I wouldn't have known that a "Proxy" was something other than the coin itself. I have seen them listed in Caches before, but didn't really put any thought into the meaning. Thanks for the tip, I'll not be searching any Caches just to find a "Proxy". Without putting the proper amount of thought into the reading of the coin page, I would have expected to find a real coin.

 

Is a "proxy" any different than a copy, I guess it's a "stunt double"

 

It looks to me like someone wants to have their cake and eat it too? The coin has travels logged and grab/drops, but still stays in the collection of the owner? Is that right?

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It would be nice if owners of these copies would post in their descriptions that it is a copy.

 

Am I missing something here? Are the "copy" coins mentioned in this thread the same thing as a Geocoin Proxy? If no, disregard the next comment.

 

If yes, they are listed under cache inventory as "Proxy Geocoins". So, if you see this you would know that you are going after a copy. Example: GC46EO http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...7d-7cfee184149b

 

Again, my apologies if the "copies" are a different item than a proxy.

I've never heard of a geocoin proxy until i clicked on the link you provided. Went and looked up the AT coin that the OP is talking about and there is no mention at all of it being a copy/proxy. A couple of the previous cachers who logged it even stated how nice it was so it sounds like to me, that someone made the copy after it was put into circulation.

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It would be nice if owners of these copies would post in their descriptions that it is a copy.

 

Am I missing something here? Are the "copy" coins mentioned in this thread the same thing as a Geocoin Proxy? If no, disregard the next comment.

 

If yes, they are listed under cache inventory as "Proxy Geocoins". So, if you see this you would know that you are going after a copy. Example: GC46EO http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...7d-7cfee184149b

 

Again, my apologies if the "copies" are a different item than a proxy.

Well, I guess I'm just dumb or something. I wouldn't have known that a "Proxy" was something other than the coin itself. I have seen them listed in Caches before, but didn't really put any thought into the meaning. Thanks for the tip, I'll not be searching any Caches just to find a "Proxy". Without putting the proper amount of thought into the reading of the coin page, I would have expected to find a real coin.

 

Is a "proxy" any different than a copy, I guess it's a "stunt double"

 

It looks to me like someone wants to have their cake and eat it too? The coin has travels logged and grab/drops, but still stays in the collection of the owner? Is that right?

 

I'm still not sure that proxy is the same thing being discussed here. Can anyone out there clarify? I seem to remember finding a proxy (and being really bummed) but it wasn't a photocopy with marker description, it was wood...I think...

 

Anyway, whatever the terminology I share your feelings about finding a copy :(

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***Yikes!!! This is like opening a bag of worms.***

 

Why would it? Either the Shoe fits or it dosn't. Either the Geocoins are yours to swap / sell or they ain't.

 

Black and White...Either you own them / have permission to trade them / have permission to sell them...or you don't.

 

***I bring coins to events to share and trade so does that make me a thief. ***

 

Only if they are registered to someone else with the intention of having that Geocoin move from cache to cache.

 

Or

 

Give me another reason ....

 

Generally, people selling and trading coins are selling coins that are not activated. I've traded for a few activated coins, but they were activated by the person I was trading with, and not taken from a cache.

 

I have yet to see anyone trading or selling someone else's activated coins. It could happen, but I think that would be rare.

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I find that most people that complain about copy coins haven't released that many themselves. I have over 150 TBs and geocoins released and the policy I use is all TBs are the original as I have a copy to send out if they come up missing. With geocoins, I release mostly the real thing, but if it cost alot or is special to me I send out a copy. That way if it comes up missing, I can send another copy out to replace it. As far as finding geocoins, I treat original and copy the same, I will move them.

You still get the icom and once you place them that is all you have to show for it anyway. I may in the future send out only copies as I am getting tired of the number that are starting to disapear on me and ending up in someones collection. If they want to collect coins, let them go to the expense of buying them.

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Just finished a 3 mile round trip hike to retrieve an AT geocoin only to find that it was a replica wood chip in a bag with a card that had the tracking info on it. It seems somebody is collecting originals and putting fakes out in circulation in their place. Being fairly new to caching I am not sure if this is an accepted practice or something frowned on by this community. To me it tarnished an otherwise great trip up and down the mountain. Let me know if I am off base on this or what you think. I have contacted the oriinal owner to see if they did the swap or if it happened after being released. Thanks for letting me rant... :unsure:

 

Let me ask you this then;

 

Would you have been equally as upset had you hiked all that way and not found anything because the last person there took the coin and didn't log it?

 

Not me, because for me, this is geocaching not geocoin grabbing.

Unfortunately there are people out there that collect other peoples coins and don't like to move them along as they should. This is a risk we all take when we release a coin or TB.

 

I have several really cool coins (IMHO) that I will not release just because I know that after a while, they will fall into the hands of this sort of person. So.. What can some one do when they want to share their coin?

Create geocoin proxy's to release so those who want to add that little custom icon to their stats page may do so and you lose nothing.

 

Z..

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I've never heard of a geocoin proxy until i clicked on the link you provided. Went and looked up the AT coin that the OP is talking about and there is no mention at all of it being a copy/proxy. A couple of the previous cachers who logged it even stated how nice it was so it sounds like to me, that someone made the copy after it was put into circulation.

 

Wow.. That's an entirely different scenario.

 

So someone grabbed the coin and swapped it with a note and a peice of wood?

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Reading the posts about "proxy" and "copy" coins. I have caching friends who have released both the real and "proxy".

 

Yes, I enjoy moving the real coins, and will move proxy coins as well.

Lets face the real issue, besides muggles and natural disasters, who is stealing the trackable items? I know of two coin thiefs in the area.

 

Personally I own a lot of coins, which the majority have not been activated, have two real coins traveling.

 

If I choose to release more coins, they will be drilled and tagged and maybe some will be proxy coins.

 

WHile at events, i enjoy looking at personal coin collections for the variety and discussion topics.

 

To sum it all up, go ahead, make proxy coins, I will move them. Caching is not all about the trackables.

Just like missing coins, caches go missing also, it a fact of nature. Get over the sour grapes, walk back to enjoy the next cache.

 

Accordiongal

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Many coin owners do this because they are tired of their coins being stolen. Unfortunate, but the coin thieves out there spoil it for everyone else.

 

Then I would think the owner that does this should mention it on the coins info page so we know what we are really seeking ahead of time. thanks for the reply

That's the reccomended practice for those owners who do. The advice though doesn't come automaticly with the stolen coins that prompt the action. You have to read about it or be told.

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This is an issue that has been brought up in the Geocoin forum regularly. Bottom line is that it is generally considered OK to release a copy (at least by Groundspeak). Many folks don't care for them - If you want to read snarky comments, look in the log of a fauxcoin.

 

As for the main reason given for releasing a copy coin - "The real one will just get stolen." My experience has been that the longevity of a geocoin released into the wild is similar to that for TB with dog tags. And, the overall cost is similar (typically $6-9 for a TB [tag + item], $5-10 for a geocoin + mission / TB buddy tag) - assuming you don't release one of the high dollar coins.

 

Geocoins also tend to be recovered quickly from caches and move a bit faster overall.

 

Oh, I don't see anything wrong with being attracted to a cache that may have a geocoin in it either. Part of the joy of the find can be seeing a real geocoin in the wild. I've gone out of my way to find caches with coins. I'll admit to being a bit bummed to find out that the previous cacher retrieved the coin. I've also been bummed to find fauxcoins in a cache. Some are done better than others, but finding a fauxcoin is not as cool as finding a real one. Missing and fauxcoins don't ruin the caching expereince for me, but finding a cool coin does enrich it. And, I also enjoy adding a new icon to my profile from coins that I have moved.

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I find that most people that complain about copy coins haven't released that many themselves. You still get the icom and once you place them that is all you have to show for it anyway. I may in the future send out only copies as I am getting tired of the number that are starting to disapear on me and ending up in someones collection.

 

I hear ya. It is disheartening when a coin vanishes from the very cache you launch a coin from. You notice I said vanish . . . some are undoubtedly stolen but I bet most are taken by noobs with 6 finds that don't know any better and it ends up at the bottom of a drawer. I started drilling or otherwise defacing my coins to reduce desirability in the eyes of these noobs. I have never released a copy but have moved several. After having a bunch disappear I too may start releasing copies of coins (better to release a copy then nothing at all if you think about it, so long as it is labeled as a copy). Of course then there are the self proclaimed geocache police who take matters into their own hands and arrogantly remove a copy from circulation even if it is labeled as a copy. You know who you are. If you don't want to move a copy, kewl, you get no problem from me, just leave the copy in the cache so the next guy/gal who comes along who may want to discover and/or move it is able too. Why take his/her choice away?

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Yeah, it's not about the numbers, it's about the icons :P I'll go out of my way for a cache with a coin I haven't seen yet, so it's more annoying to me if the trackables aren't updated on a cache page than to find a proxy coin if it has a good picture on it. I guess I figure people have the right to do what they want with their coins, and I'm glad when they share in any form.

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I've seen some really good copies out there and then the awful paper copies too. I was disappointed to pick up the copy paper and not the original coin but I moved it along fairly anyways. Like them or not, cheap or not, they are still not your personal property and should be treated with respect for that reason. If you don't like it, don't pick it up and move it.

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It would be nice if owners of these copies would post in their descriptions that it is a copy.

 

Am I missing something here? Are the "copy" coins mentioned in this thread the same thing as a Geocoin Proxy? If no, disregard the next comment.

 

If yes, they are listed under cache inventory as "Proxy Geocoins". So, if you see this you would know that you are going after a copy. Example: GC46EO http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...7d-7cfee184149b

 

Again, my apologies if the "copies" are a different item than a proxy.

 

Very often a coin or TB is listed in a cache's inventory but is not physically in the cache. Who knows whether it was stolen or just incorrectly logged. I do enjoy finding travelers in a cache and will generally take and log them (coins or TBs) when I find them. It is nice (and rare) to find a real coin in a cache, but I have found and moved a number of real traveling coins, as well as copy coins. It is nicer to find the real coin, but I just treat a copy coin like any other TB--I log it and move it on.

 

I think most "copy coins" are paper or wood copies of an actual coin.

 

I think (I may be wrong on this) that a proxy coin is different than a "copy". The coin in the link is a swallowtail butterfly made by CRAKE, which was sold as a two coin set--both coins have the same tracking number--one is meant to be kept in a collection, the other is meant to travel--sort of like a TB tag set-both have the same number but one is a COPY tag. The proxy tag in that link MAY be a paper or wood copy, but it is probably just the second traveling coin and is an actual coin that is moving from cache to cache. That would explain how people can find and log a coin in a cache, and how the owner can still own the real coin at the same time.

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***Yikes!!! This is like opening a bag of worms.***

 

Why would it? Either the Shoe fits or it dosn't. Either the Geocoins are yours to swap / sell or they ain't.

 

Black and White...Either you own them / have permission to trade them / have permission to sell them...or you don't.

 

***I bring coins to events to share and trade so does that make me a thief. ***

 

Only if they are registered to someone else with the intention of having that Geocoin move from cache to cache.

 

Or

 

Give me another reason ....

 

Generally, people selling and trading coins are selling coins that are not activated. I've traded for a few activated coins, but they were activated by the person I was trading with, and not taken from a cache.

 

I have yet to see anyone trading or selling someone else's activated coins. It could happen, but I think that would be rare.

 

ditto,

 

I think i indicated in my original post my coins were obtained legitimately, i.e I purchased most of them. So there was no need for if the shoe fits where it comment.

 

If I take a coin to an event that isn't mine, I log it before I attend the event, and leave it for the next cacher to move along or discover. I feel that most of us at events are geocachers first, not collectors so we will move it along in a timely manner.

 

Back to the original message, I read a forum a while back where a cacher was removing replica geocoins from local caches (in Florida, I think) because he felt the need too. This is bizarre to me...Anyone else think so? Just leave it there and go on with the game as you play it(I guess that is how he plays it :P ). If you fill it is unjust, note it to the owner of the coin,note it on the cache page and leave it there don't take their personal property.

 

Steel City Babes

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i dont move or discover fake coins.

i think the point of caching was to be the finding of the stuff via a gps, not hiking all over enjoying the view. yeah, hiking/exploring-style caches are fun, views are nice, being outdoors is great, but i can (and do) do all that without geocaching. when i'm out specifically for geocaching i like the excitement of the finding of the stuff, and if the stuff is fake stuff its disappointing stuff, especially if i thought it was going to be extra special stuff like geocoins. and stuff. :P

 

ps - stuff. :)

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WHO CARES!!! Copies or Originals...WHO CARES!!! The whole reason for Geocaching is to get out there and FIND the cache container. It's being in the woods and getting the experience. I have found copies that were pretty cool and original. I don't blame these people that make copies. I have myself. At least they are sharing something with the other cachers.

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