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Physical geocaches prohibited in ABDSP?


M2

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...Here's a quote from that article:

 

The plan states, “Even when bighorn sheep appear to be tolerant of a particular activity, continued and frequent

use can cause them to avoid an area, eventually interfering with use of resources, such as water, mineral lick,

lambing or feeding areas, or use of traditional movement routes.”

...

Such a statement needs a study to back it up. You are not allowed to make things up in an Environmental Document. The least they can have is a biological opinion from a recognized expert.

 

A recen't study in Yellostone showed that some animals moved closer to the roads in calving season.

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Now about HOW you reach some of these cache destinations!

 

I think we can look at what the off roading community has been dealing with to get an idea of how disputes are handled within this park.

 

The last 1 1/2 years have been getting increasingly challenging with the threat and legal action that has been in battle over the threatened closure of Truckhaven, north of S-22.

You can read about this on the San Diego Off Road Coalition website here. As well as on the Tierra Del Sol website, where it has affected their 46 year event here. You can also read about it here on the CORVA - California Off-Road Vehicle Association website. HERE you can read about their latest lawsuit with Center for Biological Diversity/Desert Protective Council over Truckhaven. SDORC spends over $6,000 a month on legal council to fight this and other issues that affect our local trails. They also have a lobbyist.

 

These guys are out there fighting to keep these areas open for all of us.

 

If any of us have taken our vehicles off the pavement to get to any geocaches then it affects you. These proposals, threats, lawsuits are a part of what these groups have to deal with. We support them because they are our voice and act on our behalf so that we may be able to enjoy seeing parts of this park and others, we may otherwise be unable to get to either because we don't have the vehicle, or because we are unable to hike a long distance.

 

This is not to say that groups such as the CBD or the DPC are bad. Not at all. I think most of us are opposed to the proposed Sunrise Powerlink going through the desert. The DPC has been fighting hard against that. So they are a voice for a lot of us on some issues.

 

I will note that part of that land there is not owned by Anza Borrego yet, it is still owned by the Anza Borrego Foundation .This foundation does acquire land that is going to be transferred to the State Park. The land in the article that what posted is a bigger piece that the foundation was trying to buy for the park, but the deal fell through. So that made it so that the state could then buy it and classify it. They will either give it all or part to Anza Borrego and or make the other part go to OWSVRA. The controversy was that the ABF wanted to buy it for Anza Borrego to keep it out of OWSVRA hands. So this has been a huge let down for them. Here is a link to to the CEQA document filed by the state. This outlines evrything going on with that. There is also a map. Classification of how the state will divide the land will be made after studies are complete. So this General Plan, could be a couple of years off so...

 

We all like to off road, hike, geocache. Maybe we need to find out who some of Anza Borregos active supporters are and ALIGN ourselves with them. Since it seems that much of the drama that plays out in those places is done between lawyers and the appointed voices.

 

We supported the San Diego 4 Wheelers this weekend by attending their event. They discussed the ongoing issues and said that the rangers had issued citations for trespassing in Anza Borrego in the Truckhaven area in the last year. They asked if you know of anyone who has received one of these to contact SDORC or TDS. They don't even want you walking in their newly acquired areas. Hmmm! Not until they say, yet there are no signs. They said the rangers have been difficult through this. They even have air patrol there!

Anyway... :)

 

I see Groundspeak is a member of Tread Lightly. Maybe we expand on that and try to contact TL and see what they can suggest. Here is what they have about Geocaching on their site.

 

Just some information of what else is happening out there with HOW you can reach these cache destinations!

 

Sure hope those closures in the southern part of the S-2 don't go through.

 

With all of this going on, they still have time to get our caches! Amazing! :)

 

Thanks Slabys- that is some excellent material to keep us informed.

 

Dave

Yes, thanks Slabys, that is really good info! :)
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Here's a quote from that article:

 

The plan states, “Even when bighorn sheep appear to be tolerant of a particular activity, continued and frequent

use can cause them to avoid an area, eventually interfering with use of resources, such as water, mineral lick,

lambing or feeding areas, or use of traditional movement routes.”

 

Bullsh...

 

http://www.theoutdoorsforum.com/forums/ind...mp;#entry121976

 

The sheep are so affected by Interstate 8 they allow themselves to be videotaped.

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I do find it interesting that Tread Lightly doesn't consider Geocaches trash.

 

Dave

 

I think that the general idea is that abiding by these ideals:

 

"Tread Lightly! On Land

 

Travel responsibly on designated roads and trails or in permitted areas.

Respect the rights of others including private property owners and all recreational trail users, campers and others to allow them to enjoy their recreational activities undisturbed.

Educate yourself by obtaining travel maps and regulations from public agencies, planning for your trip, taking recreation skills classes, and knowing how to use and operate your equipment safely.

Avoid sensitive areas such as meadows, lakeshores, wetlands and streams, unless on designated routes. This protects wildlife habitat and sensitive soils from damage.

Do your part by leaving the area better than you found it, properly disposing of waste, minimizing the use of fire, avoiding the spread of invasive species, restoring degraded areas, and joining a local enthusiast organization."

 

Gets you a free pass. Perhaps they do focus somewhere on geocaching and other outdoor persuits but following these ideals is likely all that is required.

 

Too bad that they don't have some sort of geocache review function, I can sure as heck fire tell you that there are more than a few that could benefit from following their stated land use goals.

 

I too find lots of things 'interesting'.

Edited by Team Cotati
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Here's a quote from that article:

 

The plan states, "Even when bighorn sheep appear to be tolerant of a particular activity, continued and frequent

use can cause them to avoid an area, eventually interfering with use of resources, such as water, mineral lick,

lambing or feeding areas, or use of traditional movement routes."

Based on that quote, I can't imagine how Jorgensen could possibly claim that casual Geocaching has any impact whatsoever on the sheep. Geocaching activity in remote areas where the sheep are present is not continued and frequent...

Not only is the geocaching impact to bighorn sheep claim a big stretch, I would say, from my limited observations, that the quote is also inaccurate. I have spent a lot of time in ABDSP, both in the more remote areas and in the more populated areas. I have seen the bighorn sheep on many occasions. I have seen them most often along S22 where it drops down into Borrego Springs. This is a very extreme high traffic area compared to any of the off road trails where 4x4 vehicles travel. The sheep are perfectly content to hang out right next to the road along S22 and are apparently not bothered by all the traffic so how could a few vehicles on off road trails or people hiking in other areas cause such a problem for them?

Link to comment

Now about HOW you reach some of these cache destinations!

 

I think we can look at what the off roading community has been dealing with to get an idea of how disputes are handled within this park.

 

The last 1 1/2 years have been getting increasingly challenging with the threat and legal action that has been in battle over the threatened closure of Truckhaven, north of S-22.

You can read about this on the San Diego Off Road Coalition website here. As well as on the Tierra Del Sol website, where it has affected their 46 year event here. You can also read about it here on the CORVA - California Off-Road Vehicle Association website. HERE you can read about their latest lawsuit with Center for Biological Diversity/Desert Protective Council over Truckhaven. SDORC spends over $6,000 a month on legal council to fight this and other issues that affect our local trails. They also have a lobbyist.

 

These guys are out there fighting to keep these areas open for all of us.

 

If any of us have taken our vehicles off the pavement to get to any geocaches then it affects you. These proposals, threats, lawsuits are a part of what these groups have to deal with. We support them because they are our voice and act on our behalf so that we may be able to enjoy seeing parts of this park and others, we may otherwise be unable to get to either because we don't have the vehicle, or because we are unable to hike a long distance.

 

This is not to say that groups such as the CBD or the DPC are bad. Not at all. I think most of us are opposed to the proposed Sunrise Powerlink going through the desert. The DPC has been fighting hard against that. So they are a voice for a lot of us on some issues.

 

I will note that part of that land there is not owned by Anza Borrego yet, it is still owned by the Anza Borrego Foundation .This foundation does acquire land that is going to be transferred to the State Park. The land in the article that what posted is a bigger piece that the foundation was trying to buy for the park, but the deal fell through. So that made it so that the state could then buy it and classify it. They will either give it all or part to Anza Borrego and or make the other part go to OWSVRA. The controversy was that the ABF wanted to buy it for Anza Borrego to keep it out of OWSVRA hands. So this has been a huge let down for them. Here is a link to to the CEQA document filed by the state. This outlines evrything going on with that. There is also a map. Classification of how the state will divide the land will be made after studies are complete. So this General Plan, could be a couple of years off so...

 

We all like to off road, hike, geocache. Maybe we need to find out who some of Anza Borregos active supporters are and ALIGN ourselves with them. Since it seems that much of the drama that plays out in those places is done between lawyers and the appointed voices.

 

We supported the San Diego 4 Wheelers this weekend by attending their event. They discussed the ongoing issues and said that the rangers had issued citations for trespassing in Anza Borrego in the Truckhaven area in the last year. They asked if you know of anyone who has received one of these to contact SDORC or TDS. They don't even want you walking in their newly acquired areas. Hmmm! Not until they say, yet there are no signs. They said the rangers have been difficult through this. They even have air patrol there!

Anyway... :)

 

I see Groundspeak is a member of Tread Lightly. Maybe we expand on that and try to contact TL and see what they can suggest. Here is what they have about Geocaching on their site.

 

Just some information of what else is happening out there with HOW you can reach these cache destinations!

 

Sure hope those closures in the southern part of the S-2 don't go through.

 

With all of this going on, they still have time to get our caches! Amazing! :)

Do you know how the above issue relates to the proposed geothermal leases in Truckhaven that many of the 4x4 forums are claiming will close large sections of the BLM land east of Ocotillo Wells?

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Here's a quote from that article:

 

The plan states, "Even when bighorn sheep appear to be tolerant of a particular activity, continued and frequent

use can cause them to avoid an area, eventually interfering with use of resources, such as water, mineral lick,

lambing or feeding areas, or use of traditional movement routes."

Based on that quote, I can't imagine how Jorgensen could possibly claim that casual Geocaching has any impact whatsoever on the sheep. Geocaching activity in remote areas where the sheep are present is not continued and frequent...

Not only is the geocaching impact to bighorn sheep claim a big stretch, I would say, from my limited observations, that the quote is also inaccurate. I have spent a lot of time in ABDSP, both in the more remote areas and in the more populated areas. I have seen the bighorn sheep on many occasions. I have seen them most often along S22 where it drops down into Borrego Springs. This is a very extreme high traffic area compared to any of the off road trails where 4x4 vehicles travel. The sheep are perfectly content to hang out right next to the road along S22 and are apparently not bothered by all the traffic so how could a few vehicles on off road trails or people hiking in other areas cause such a problem for them?

 

I've had a similar experience with the federally protected Desert Tortoise. I've seen three of the tortoises when offroading in the Calico area northeast of Barstow. However, when I've wheeled with groups on the Mojave Road as it goes through the protected Mojave Preserve we have had to get permits for taking groups. We also need to limit the size of (or stagger) the groups so that the tortoises can successfully cross the road without getting run over by a long line of rigs. Despite these precautions I've yet to see one tortoise while in the preserve.

Link to comment

 

Here's a quote from that article:

 

The plan states, “Even when bighorn sheep appear to be tolerant of a particular activity, continued and frequent

use can cause them to avoid an area, eventually interfering with use of resources, such as water, mineral lick,

lambing or feeding areas, or use of traditional movement routes.”

 

I don't know about your California sheep , but Arizona sheep don't seem to be bothered by North Americas largest open pit mine.

Here

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My $0.02

 

Just some food for thought: After our (Eric and Hill and myself) recent trip to ABDSP this past weekend "saving" a few caches from destruction we stopped by It's In The Can Man which has been removed per ABDSP policy.

Now, the cache was hidden inside a rusted old can in a pile of dozens of other rusty old cans. The cache is gone but the rusty old cans are still there. Somebody please fill me in on how a cache can be litter and rusty old cans are not. Maybe there is some kind of historical significance with the cans...

Link to comment

My $0.02

 

Just some food for thought: After our (Eric and Hill and myself) recent trip to ABDSP this past weekend "saving" a few caches from destruction we stopped by It's In The Can Man which has been removed per ABDSP policy.

Now, the cache was hidden inside a rusted old can in a pile of dozens of other rusty old cans. The cache is gone but the rusty old cans are still there. Somebody please fill me in on how a cache can be litter and rusty old cans are not. Maybe there is some kind of historical significance with the cans...

 

I never though about it, but yea, This is a perfect example of how these people have absolutly no basis for their claims and they only want to stop other people from enjoying "Their" park. This now really pisses me off.....

Edited by Eric and Hill
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My $0.02

 

Just some food for thought: After our (Eric and Hill and myself) recent trip to ABDSP this past weekend "saving" a few caches from destruction we stopped by It's In The Can Man which has been removed per ABDSP policy.

Now, the cache was hidden inside a rusted old can in a pile of dozens of other rusty old cans. The cache is gone but the rusty old cans are still there. Somebody please fill me in on how a cache can be litter and rusty old cans are not. Maybe there is some kind of historical significance with the cans...

 

WHAT??? :yikes: I am at a loss for words....

Link to comment

My $0.02

 

Just some food for thought: After our (Eric and Hill and myself) recent trip to ABDSP this past weekend "saving" a few caches from destruction we stopped by It's In The Can Man which has been removed per ABDSP policy.

Now, the cache was hidden inside a rusted old can in a pile of dozens of other rusty old cans. The cache is gone but the rusty old cans are still there. Somebody please fill me in on how a cache can be litter and rusty old cans are not. Maybe there is some kind of historical significance with the cans...

I never though about it, but yea, This is a perfect example of how these people have absolutly no basis for their claims and they only want to stop other people from enjoying "Their" park. This now really pisses me off.....
We are all pissed off because we know the truth. Hopefully our negotiators have some luck with the higher ups.

 

Also remember it's better to be pissed off than pissed on! (Just some humor to lighten things up) :yikes:

Edited by TrailGators
Link to comment

My $0.02

 

Just some food for thought: After our (Eric and Hill and myself) recent trip to ABDSP this past weekend "saving" a few caches from destruction we stopped by It's In The Can Man which has been removed per ABDSP policy.

Now, the cache was hidden inside a rusted old can in a pile of dozens of other rusty old cans. The cache is gone but the rusty old cans are still there. Somebody please fill me in on how a cache can be litter and rusty old cans are not. Maybe there is some kind of historical significance with the cans...

The inmates are running the asylum... At least now we know where to "recycle" our cans...

Link to comment

My $0.02

 

Just some food for thought: After our (Eric and Hill and myself) recent trip to ABDSP this past weekend "saving" a few caches from destruction we stopped by It's In The Can Man which has been removed per ABDSP policy.

Now, the cache was hidden inside a rusted old can in a pile of dozens of other rusty old cans. The cache is gone but the rusty old cans are still there. Somebody please fill me in on how a cache can be litter and rusty old cans are not. Maybe there is some kind of historical significance with the cans...

The inmates are running the asylum... At least now we know where to "recycle" our cans...

 

I honestly think we should organize a CITO for the park and take as many truck loads of trash as we can and dump them on their door steps and let them know what litter really is......

Edited by Eric and Hill
Link to comment

My $0.02

 

Just some food for thought: After our (Eric and Hill and myself) recent trip to ABDSP this past weekend "saving" a few caches from destruction we stopped by It's In The Can Man which has been removed per ABDSP policy.

Now, the cache was hidden inside a rusted old can in a pile of dozens of other rusty old cans. The cache is gone but the rusty old cans are still there. Somebody please fill me in on how a cache can be litter and rusty old cans are not. Maybe there is some kind of historical significance with the cans...

The inmates are running the asylum... At least now we know where to "recycle" our cans...

I honestly think we should organize a CITO for the park and take as many truck loads of trash as we can and dump them on their door steps and let them know what litter really is......
They want us to do that, so we justify what they are doing. It's like a fight in football, the guy that throws the last punch gets the flag. Anyhow, think how satisfying it will be if we play our cards right and are able overturn their stupidity.
Link to comment

My $0.02

 

Just some food for thought: After our (Eric and Hill and myself) recent trip to ABDSP this past weekend "saving" a few caches from destruction we stopped by It's In The Can Man which has been removed per ABDSP policy.

Now, the cache was hidden inside a rusted old can in a pile of dozens of other rusty old cans. The cache is gone but the rusty old cans are still there. Somebody please fill me in on how a cache can be litter and rusty old cans are not. Maybe there is some kind of historical significance with the cans...

I never though about it, but yea, This is a perfect example of how these people have absolutly no basis for their claims and they only want to stop other people from enjoying "Their" park. This now really pisses me off.....
We are all pissed off because we know the truth. Hopefully our negotiators have some luck with the higher ups.

 

Also remember it's better to be pissed off than pissed on! (Just some humor to lighten things up) :yikes:

 

Thanks for that bit of humor. I really needed that.

Link to comment
Anyone want to adopt my Anza Borrego coin? Will pay for shipping. :yikes:

 

c3365b31-3607-4ef1-849c-3ff4d4ff152e.jpg

 

Wow! Look at that! One side has one of those rare and sensitive sheep that were all frightened away by the evil geocachers littering the deserts with their caches, I mean trashes. :grin:

 

I think those sheep are eating the actual trash that the rangers are ignoring.... :yikes:
Link to comment

My $0.02

 

Just some food for thought: After our (Eric and Hill and myself) recent trip to ABDSP this past weekend "saving" a few caches from destruction we stopped by It's In The Can Man which has been removed per ABDSP policy.

Now, the cache was hidden inside a rusted old can in a pile of dozens of other rusty old cans. The cache is gone but the rusty old cans are still there. Somebody please fill me in on how a cache can be litter and rusty old cans are not. Maybe there is some kind of historical significance with the cans...

The inmates are running the asylum... At least now we know where to "recycle" our cans...

I honestly think we should organize a CITO for the park and take as many truck loads of trash as we can and dump them on their door steps and let them know what litter really is......
They want us to do that, so we justify what they are doing. It's like a fight in football, the guy that throws the last punch gets the flag. Anyhow, think how satisfying it will be if we play our cards right and are able overturn their stupidity.

I thinks they eventually want the cans to be categorized as an example of primitive culture, and the cache throws the whole premise out of whack. :yikes:

 

4b3c63bb-2a8f-4735-b2f2-23f9d9bff102.jpg

Link to comment

My $0.02

 

Just some food for thought: After our (Eric and Hill and myself) recent trip to ABDSP this past weekend "saving" a few caches from destruction we stopped by It's In The Can Man which has been removed per ABDSP policy.

Now, the cache was hidden inside a rusted old can in a pile of dozens of other rusty old cans. The cache is gone but the rusty old cans are still there. Somebody please fill me in on how a cache can be litter and rusty old cans are not. Maybe there is some kind of historical significance with the cans...

The inmates are running the asylum... At least now we know where to "recycle" our cans...

I honestly think we should organize a CITO for the park and take as many truck loads of trash as we can and dump them on their door steps and let them know what litter really is......
They want us to do that, so we justify what they are doing. It's like a fight in football, the guy that throws the last punch gets the flag. Anyhow, think how satisfying it will be if we play our cards right and are able overturn their stupidity.

I thinks they eventually want the cans to be categorized as an example of primitive culture, and the cache throws the whole premise out of whack. :yikes:

 

4b3c63bb-2a8f-4735-b2f2-23f9d9bff102.jpg

 

Those rangers are so funny!

:grin::D:yikes: :D :D

Oops. I guess I shouldn't do that. It's not nice to laugh at stupid people.

Link to comment

My $0.02

 

Just some food for thought: After our (Eric and Hill and myself) recent trip to ABDSP this past weekend "saving" a few caches from destruction we stopped by It's In The Can Man which has been removed per ABDSP policy.

Now, the cache was hidden inside a rusted old can in a pile of dozens of other rusty old cans. The cache is gone but the rusty old cans are still there. Somebody please fill me in on how a cache can be litter and rusty old cans are not. Maybe there is some kind of historical significance with the cans...

The inmates are running the asylum... At least now we know where to "recycle" our cans...

I honestly think we should organize a CITO for the park and take as many truck loads of trash as we can and dump them on their door steps and let them know what litter really is......
They want us to do that, so we justify what they are doing. It's like a fight in football, the guy that throws the last punch gets the flag. Anyhow, think how satisfying it will be if we play our cards right and are able overturn their stupidity.

I thinks they eventually want the cans to be categorized as an example of primitive culture, and the cache throws the whole premise out of whack. :yikes:

 

4b3c63bb-2a8f-4735-b2f2-23f9d9bff102.jpg

 

Those rangers are so funny!

:D:D:yikes: :grin: :D

Oops. I guess I shouldn't do that. It's not nice to laugh at stupid people.

 

This area must be what they call a sensitive area :D:D Do not disturb the cans please :D:P

Link to comment

My $0.02

 

Just some food for thought: After our (Eric and Hill and myself) recent trip to ABDSP this past weekend "saving" a few caches from destruction we stopped by It's In The Can Man which has been removed per ABDSP policy.

Now, the cache was hidden inside a rusted old can in a pile of dozens of other rusty old cans. The cache is gone but the rusty old cans are still there. Somebody please fill me in on how a cache can be litter and rusty old cans are not. Maybe there is some kind of historical significance with the cans...

The inmates are running the asylum... At least now we know where to "recycle" our cans...

I honestly think we should organize a CITO for the park and take as many truck loads of trash as we can and dump them on their door steps and let them know what litter really is......
They want us to do that, so we justify what they are doing. It's like a fight in football, the guy that throws the last punch gets the flag. Anyhow, think how satisfying it will be if we play our cards right and are able overturn their stupidity.

I thinks they eventually want the cans to be categorized as an example of primitive culture, and the cache throws the whole premise out of whack. :ph34r:

 

4b3c63bb-2a8f-4735-b2f2-23f9d9bff102.jpg

 

Those rangers are so funny!

:D:D:) :D :D

Oops. I guess I shouldn't do that. It's not nice to laugh at stupid people.

 

This area must be what they call a sensitive area :D:) Do not disturb the cans please :D:D

 

Indian artifacts??? or remnants from a camp by Juan Batista de Anza????

Link to comment

My $0.02

 

Just some food for thought: After our (Eric and Hill and myself) recent trip to ABDSP this past weekend "saving" a few caches from destruction we stopped by It's In The Can Man which has been removed per ABDSP policy.

Now, the cache was hidden inside a rusted old can in a pile of dozens of other rusty old cans. The cache is gone but the rusty old cans are still there. Somebody please fill me in on how a cache can be litter and rusty old cans are not. Maybe there is some kind of historical significance with the cans...

The inmates are running the asylum... At least now we know where to "recycle" our cans...

I honestly think we should organize a CITO for the park and take as many truck loads of trash as we can and dump them on their door steps and let them know what litter really is......
They want us to do that, so we justify what they are doing. It's like a fight in football, the guy that throws the last punch gets the flag. Anyhow, think how satisfying it will be if we play our cards right and are able overturn their stupidity.

I thinks they eventually want the cans to be categorized as an example of primitive culture, and the cache throws the whole premise out of whack. :ph34r:

 

4b3c63bb-2a8f-4735-b2f2-23f9d9bff102.jpg

 

Those rangers are so funny!

:):D:D :D :D

Oops. I guess I shouldn't do that. It's not nice to laugh at stupid people.

 

This area must be what they call a sensitive area :D:) Do not disturb the cans please :D:D

 

Indian artifacts??? or remnants from a camp by Juan Batista de Anza????

I have a better one!

what about all the plastic water container and PVC pipe with a flag's attached :D , brought out to the area for.... the Illegal Aliens traveling threw ??? :D

that seems to be OK ???

I guess we could put water bottles in our caches ??? :D

Link to comment

My $0.02

 

Just some food for thought: After our (Eric and Hill and myself) recent trip to ABDSP this past weekend "saving" a few caches from destruction we stopped by It's In The Can Man which has been removed per ABDSP policy.

Now, the cache was hidden inside a rusted old can in a pile of dozens of other rusty old cans. The cache is gone but the rusty old cans are still there. Somebody please fill me in on how a cache can be litter and rusty old cans are not. Maybe there is some kind of historical significance with the cans...

The inmates are running the asylum... At least now we know where to "recycle" our cans...

I honestly think we should organize a CITO for the park and take as many truck loads of trash as we can and dump them on their door steps and let them know what litter really is......
They want us to do that, so we justify what they are doing. It's like a fight in football, the guy that throws the last punch gets the flag. Anyhow, think how satisfying it will be if we play our cards right and are able overturn their stupidity.

I thinks they eventually want the cans to be categorized as an example of primitive culture, and the cache throws the whole premise out of whack. :ph34r:

 

4b3c63bb-2a8f-4735-b2f2-23f9d9bff102.jpg

 

Those rangers are so funny!

:):D:D :D :D

Oops. I guess I shouldn't do that. It's not nice to laugh at stupid people.

 

This area must be what they call a sensitive area :):D Do not disturb the cans please :D:D

 

Indian artifacts??? or remnants from a camp by Juan Batista de Anza????

:D:D:D I never knew that those Indians drank tons of Maxwell House! :D Edited by TrailGators
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>If any of us have taken our vehicles off the pavement to get to any geocaches then it affects you.

 

I have had people drive to my Truckhaven (GC30A) cache and it always upsets me. I think my Truckhaven cache was actually just inside the park boundary. I always assumed the microwave tower was outside the boundary but seems it's within the park and so was my cache. I'm not sure if i'm going to relocate it or not. I really hate when someone drives to the cache. There are some dead run-over creosote near the cache from off-roaders and it pisses me off.

 

-Florian

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now why can't the ABDSP do this. At least the BLM will work with us, and their safety concerns we can understand.

 

From the Fort Ord Post

 

For Release: January 23, 2008

BLM Releases Treasure Cache Policy Covering Fort Ord Public Lands

 

The Bureau of Land Management has issued a new policy that allows new treasure caches (i.e. geocaches and letterboxes) with prior approval on Fort Ord public lands.

 

The new Fort Ord treasure cache policy allows new treasure caches on the Fort Ord public lands. However, caches must be approved in writing by the BLM before they are established.

 

“The policy contains safeguards to ensure that containers are not placed in environmentally sensitive areas or military munitions sites, and that the containers themselves do not have the appearance of anything that could be confused with a military device missed during the Army’s site clean-up activities,” said Eric Morgan, BLM’s Fort Ord manager.

 

Geocaching (and letterboxing) are treasure-hunting games in which the participants use a global positioning system receiver or other navigational techniques to hide and find containers. The coordinates of these treasure caches are generally posted on websites for other visitors to find. Once found, participants often take and leave a trinket from a container; or in the case of letterboxes, participants use an ink stamp in the box to mark their find.

 

The new Fort Ord policy has restrictions on the types of containers that can be used in treasure caching, and where they may be placed. Approval for cache establishment will be in the form of a recreation permit or similar written authorization. Morgan concedes that the new policy will lengthen the period of time for a citizen to establish and post a cache, but added “getting written approval from the BLM prior to establishing caches is the only way that safety can be ensured, and that cache visitors do not damage sensitive natural or historic and prehistoric resources.”

 

The new policy replaces the emergency closure order that was issued on September 18, 2007, that prohibited new caches from becoming established at Fort Ord. That closure was prompted, in part, from a report that a letterbox was a munitions device and emergency personnel were summoned to the scene to investigate.

 

The Fort Ord treasure cache policy can be obtained from the Hollister Field Office, 20 Hamilton Court, Hollister, Calif., 95023, phone (831) 630–5000. For additional information, contact Rick Cooper, BLM Hollister Field Office manager at the above address, e-mail: Rick_Cooper@ca.blm.gov or Morgan (831) 394–8314, e-mail: Eric_Morgan@ca.blm.gov.

 

 

Maybe ABDSP should read this. We could live with this policy in the ABDSP.

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>If any of us have taken our vehicles off the pavement to get to any geocaches then it affects you.

 

I have had people drive to my Truckhaven (GC30A) cache and it always upsets me. I think my Truckhaven cache was actually just inside the park boundary. I always assumed the microwave tower was outside the boundary but seems it's within the park and so was my cache. I'm not sure if i'm going to relocate it or not. I really hate when someone drives to the cache. There are some dead run-over creosote near the cache from off-roaders and it pisses me off.

 

-Florian

 

 

I did this Cache many years ago and I walked in from the road. There was a road I could have driven and gotten closer.100 ft or so. When I got there, there was tire tracks of someone driving right up to GZ. Deep tire tracks where they gassed it. In the off road area this may be OK but no need for it here.

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>If any of us have taken our vehicles off the pavement to get to any geocaches then it affects you.

 

I have had people drive to my Truckhaven (GC30A) cache and it always upsets me. I think my Truckhaven cache was actually just inside the park boundary. I always assumed the microwave tower was outside the boundary but seems it's within the park and so was my cache. I'm not sure if i'm going to relocate it or not. I really hate when someone drives to the cache. There are some dead run-over creosote near the cache from off-roaders and it pisses me off.

 

-Florian

Your cache page description is very specific regarding this, and any self-respecting geocacher will park and walk, as we did a couple months ago...

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now why can't the ABDSP do this. At least the BLM will work with us, and their safety concerns we can understand.

 

From the Fort Ord Post

 

For Release: January 23, 2008

BLM Releases Treasure Cache Policy Covering Fort Ord Public Lands

 

The Bureau of Land Management has issued a new policy that allows new treasure caches (i.e. geocaches and letterboxes) with prior approval on Fort Ord public lands.

 

The new Fort Ord treasure cache policy allows new treasure caches on the Fort Ord public lands. However, caches must be approved in writing by the BLM before they are established.

 

“The policy contains safeguards to ensure that containers are not placed in environmentally sensitive areas or military munitions sites, and that the containers themselves do not have the appearance of anything that could be confused with a military device missed during the Army’s site clean-up activities,” said Eric Morgan, BLM’s Fort Ord manager.

 

Geocaching (and letterboxing) are treasure-hunting games in which the participants use a global positioning system receiver or other navigational techniques to hide and find containers. The coordinates of these treasure caches are generally posted on websites for other visitors to find. Once found, participants often take and leave a trinket from a container; or in the case of letterboxes, participants use an ink stamp in the box to mark their find.

 

The new Fort Ord policy has restrictions on the types of containers that can be used in treasure caching, and where they may be placed. Approval for cache establishment will be in the form of a recreation permit or similar written authorization. Morgan concedes that the new policy will lengthen the period of time for a citizen to establish and post a cache, but added “getting written approval from the BLM prior to establishing caches is the only way that safety can be ensured, and that cache visitors do not damage sensitive natural or historic and prehistoric resources.”

 

The new policy replaces the emergency closure order that was issued on September 18, 2007, that prohibited new caches from becoming established at Fort Ord. That closure was prompted, in part, from a report that a letterbox was a munitions device and emergency personnel were summoned to the scene to investigate.

 

The Fort Ord treasure cache policy can be obtained from the Hollister Field Office, 20 Hamilton Court, Hollister, Calif., 95023, phone (831) 630–5000. For additional information, contact Rick Cooper, BLM Hollister Field Office manager at the above address, e-mail: Rick_Cooper@ca.blm.gov or Morgan (831) 394–8314, e-mail: Eric_Morgan@ca.blm.gov.

 

 

Maybe ABDSP should read this. We could live with this policy in the ABDSP.

 

This is essentially what we have in mind...

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now why can't the ABDSP do this. At least the BLM will work with us, and their safety concerns we can understand.

 

From the Fort Ord Post

 

For Release: January 23, 2008

BLM Releases Treasure Cache Policy Covering Fort Ord Public Lands

 

The Bureau of Land Management has issued a new policy that allows new treasure caches (i.e. geocaches and letterboxes) with prior approval on Fort Ord public lands.

 

The new Fort Ord treasure cache policy allows new treasure caches on the Fort Ord public lands. However, caches must be approved in writing by the BLM before they are established.

 

“The policy contains safeguards to ensure that containers are not placed in environmentally sensitive areas or military munitions sites, and that the containers themselves do not have the appearance of anything that could be confused with a military device missed during the Army’s site clean-up activities,” said Eric Morgan, BLM’s Fort Ord manager.

 

Geocaching (and letterboxing) are treasure-hunting games in which the participants use a global positioning system receiver or other navigational techniques to hide and find containers. The coordinates of these treasure caches are generally posted on websites for other visitors to find. Once found, participants often take and leave a trinket from a container; or in the case of letterboxes, participants use an ink stamp in the box to mark their find.

 

The new Fort Ord policy has restrictions on the types of containers that can be used in treasure caching, and where they may be placed. Approval for cache establishment will be in the form of a recreation permit or similar written authorization. Morgan concedes that the new policy will lengthen the period of time for a citizen to establish and post a cache, but added “getting written approval from the BLM prior to establishing caches is the only way that safety can be ensured, and that cache visitors do not damage sensitive natural or historic and prehistoric resources.”

 

The new policy replaces the emergency closure order that was issued on September 18, 2007, that prohibited new caches from becoming established at Fort Ord. That closure was prompted, in part, from a report that a letterbox was a munitions device and emergency personnel were summoned to the scene to investigate.

 

The Fort Ord treasure cache policy can be obtained from the Hollister Field Office, 20 Hamilton Court, Hollister, Calif., 95023, phone (831) 630–5000. For additional information, contact Rick Cooper, BLM Hollister Field Office manager at the above address, e-mail: Rick_Cooper@ca.blm.gov or Morgan (831) 394–8314, e-mail: Eric_Morgan@ca.blm.gov.

 

 

Maybe ABDSP should read this. We could live with this policy in the ABDSP.

 

Great idea. Perhaps you will send it to a person there at ABDSP?

Edited by Team Cotati
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>If any of us have taken our vehicles off the pavement to get to any geocaches then it affects you.

 

I have had people drive to my Truckhaven (GC30A) cache and it always upsets me. I think my Truckhaven cache was actually just inside the park boundary. I always assumed the microwave tower was outside the boundary but seems it's within the park and so was my cache. I'm not sure if i'm going to relocate it or not. I really hate when someone drives to the cache. There are some dead run-over creosote near the cache from off-roaders and it pisses me off.

 

-Florian

 

We completely agree. It's not necessary. It especially touches a nerve with the herbalist in me. ;) Enjoyed walking to your caches when we got them 4 years ago and also wanted to say that we love your website. It's an absolute treasure trove of information for anyone with interest in the starry sky as we are. Everyone should check it out! Thanks!

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Great idea. Perhaps you will send it to a person there at ABDSP?

 

Don't worry, Jenn is and was very involved with Fort Ord and I'm sure this will be part of her dialog with the State Park officials...

 

Thank you. That is very good news indeed. The Team has visited Ft. Ord many many times and we really do enjoy exploring there.

Edited by Team Cotati
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So I sent an email to the parks about the cans, and apparently..... They really may be a Historical Site... :D See the response below from Mr. Jorgensen. So if you see rusted cans in the desert, please be considerate and leave them alone.

 

Mr. Holden:

 

*SNIP*

With the increased incidence of caches being placed in many sensitive areas such as archeological sites, fossil areas, bighorn watering sites, etc. it was clear that the issue needed to be addressed. The idea of depositing ammo cans and Tupperware boxes within the Park and State Wilderness Areas of Anza-Borrego is the subject of philosophical discussion. Our discussions with the geocaching.com administrators have involved the transition of physical caches to virtual ones.

 

I do not have knowledge of who removed a cache from the trash dump site depicted in the photograph in your email. I will say that my staff and I all participate in the clean-up of tons of trash from this park and surrounding areas every season, and from what I have witnessed in my work here since 1972, the public is also doing a tremendous job of cleaning up litter left in the desert by others, less thoughtful. Old dump sites, of possible historic value are not routinely cleaned up, and the photo shows obviously old rusty cans which might fall into this category. To assume a State Park Ranger may have taken the time to search out the cache and remove it, without cleaning up the associated litter is still an assumption.

*END SNIP*

Edited by Eric and Hill
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So I sent an email to the parks about the cans, and apparently..... They really may be a Historical Site... :D See the response below from Mr. Jorgensen. So if you see rusted cans in the desert, please be considerate and leave them alone.

 

Mr. Holden:

 

*SNIP*

With the increased incidence of caches being placed in many sensitive areas such as archeological sites, fossil areas, bighorn watering sites, etc. it was clear that the issue needed to be addressed. The idea of depositing ammo cans and Tupperware boxes within the Park and State Wilderness Areas of Anza-Borrego is the subject of philosophical discussion. Our discussions with the geocaching.com administrators have involved the transition of physical caches to virtual ones.

 

I do not have knowledge of who removed a cache from the trash dump site depicted in the photograph in your email. I will say that my staff and I all participate in the clean-up of tons of trash from this park and surrounding areas every season, and from what I have witnessed in my work here since 1972, the public is also doing a tremendous job of cleaning up litter left in the desert by others, less thoughtful. Old dump sites, of possible historic value are not routinely cleaned up, and the photo shows obviously old rusty cans which might fall into this category. To assume a State Park Ranger may have taken the time to search out the cache and remove it, without cleaning up the associated litter is still an assumption.

*END SNIP*

I did some research too and it sound like objects only have to be 50 years old to be considered historic. So what needs to be done for caching is to hide caches but not to reveal their secret location for 50 years. Then they will be historic and cannot be removed! :D
Link to comment
So I sent an email to the parks about the cans, and apparently..... They really may be a Historical Site... :D See the response below from Mr. Jorgensen. So if you see rusted cans in the desert, please be considerate and leave them alone.

 

Mr. Holden:

 

*SNIP*

With the increased incidence of caches being placed in many sensitive areas such as archeological sites, fossil areas, bighorn watering sites, etc. it was clear that the issue needed to be addressed. The idea of depositing ammo cans and Tupperware boxes within the Park and State Wilderness Areas of Anza-Borrego is the subject of philosophical discussion. Our discussions with the geocaching.com administrators have involved the transition of physical caches to virtual ones.

 

I do not have knowledge of who removed a cache from the trash dump site depicted in the photograph in your email. I will say that my staff and I all participate in the clean-up of tons of trash from this park and surrounding areas every season, and from what I have witnessed in my work here since 1972, the public is also doing a tremendous job of cleaning up litter left in the desert by others, less thoughtful. Old dump sites, of possible historic value are not routinely cleaned up, and the photo shows obviously old rusty cans which might fall into this category. To assume a State Park Ranger may have taken the time to search out the cache and remove it, without cleaning up the associated litter is still an assumption.

*END SNIP*

I did some research too and it sound like objects only have to be 50 years old to be considered historic. So what needs to be done for caching is to hide caches but not to reveal their secret location for 50 years. Then they will be historic and cannot be removed! :D

:D:D:D:D
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"They really may be a Historical Site" The shock and horror of it all. :D

 

And do we suppose that there will be a lesson learned by the mindless ranters?

 

I sure as heck tell you this, after having read this garbage, if I was the decider, the time period for historic preservation would not be 50 years, it would be 50 minutes.

Edited by Team Cotati
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"They really may be a Historical Site" The shock and horror of it all. :D

 

And do we suppose that there will be a lesson learned by the mindless ranters?

 

I sure as heck tell you this, after having read this garbage, if I was the decider, the time period for historic preservation would not be 50 years, it would be 50 minutes.

 

I read your posting a few times...... huh?!?!

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"They really may be a Historical Site" The shock and horror of it all. :D

 

And do we suppose that there will be a lesson learned by the mindless ranters?

 

I sure as heck tell you this, after having read this garbage, if I was the decider, the time period for historic preservation would not be 50 years, it would be 50 minutes.

 

I read your posting a few times...... huh?!?!

 

Exactly the expected response.

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"They really may be a Historical Site" The shock and horror of it all. :blink:

 

And do we suppose that there will be a lesson learned by the mindless ranters?

 

I sure as heck tell you this, after having read this garbage, if I was the decider, the time period for historic preservation would not be 50 years, it would be 50 minutes.

Good. Then they wouldn't be taking our historic caches.

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"They really may be a Historical Site" The shock and horror of it all. ;)

 

And do we suppose that there will be a lesson learned by the mindless ranters?

 

I sure as heck tell you this, after having read this garbage, if I was the decider, the time period for historic preservation would not be 50 years, it would be 50 minutes.

Good. Then they wouldn't be taking our historic caches.

 

The geocache the previous post refers to, "It's in the can..." was placed within a railroad-related historic can scatter. A historic site, dating back 50+ years.

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...The geocache the previous post refers to, "It's in the can..." was placed within a railroad-related historic can scatter. A historic site, dating back 50+ years.

 

Education helps. It's not an easy concept for the public to understand that yesterdays trash is todays valuble historical cultural resource. Most of the public would pick up the rusty can at the same time they picked up the keystone can and call picking up that liter a job well done.

 

It would not hurt to explain why that particular refuse is historic and rises to that level when other seemingly similar piles just don't make the grade. 50 years is a rule of thumb to know when to consider something as historic. Not an automatic ticket to being regarded as valuable history.

Edited by Renegade Knight
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"They really may be a Historical Site" The shock and horror of it all. ;)

 

And do we suppose that there will be a lesson learned by the mindless ranters?

 

I sure as heck tell you this, after having read this garbage, if I was the decider, the time period for historic preservation would not be 50 years, it would be 50 minutes.

Good. Then they wouldn't be taking our historic caches.

 

The geocache the previous post refers to, "It's in the can..." was placed within a railroad-related historic can scatter. A historic site, dating back 50+ years.

 

Hmmm.... and what is the reason the cans were not cleaned up 30-40 years ago (or even 25)??? ;)

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...Hmmm.... and what is the reason the cans were not cleaned up 30-40 years ago (or even 25)??? ;)

 

Back when it was litter it was remote or nobody cared enough to bother or they were too busy dumping themselves. By the time they find these things or have the ability to remove them in todays world some are historic.

 

And you know this because?!?!?

FYI - there is a desert road (for campgrounds) less than 100 ft from the cache and a bunch of railroad cars are parked on the tracks next to the road. The area is well traversed and has been so for years.

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