Bad Swag!

[+geowizerd]

Was out caching this afternoon, and found these umm, "business cards" in a cache. And Snoogans thought he was king of shameless self-promotion! I don't even know what the top card is even about!!! In my humble (or not so) opinion, this kind of crap should NOT be put into other people's caches! What do you think?

 

The Power Of Vision?!? Yeah, it really helps for not whacking into things!

Edited December 27, 2007 by geowizerd

[+cerberus1]

Yes, business cards are usually frowned upon in caches.

It is also frowned upon to post folks names when your attempting to nail 'em.

(The e-mail address and such could/should have been blocked out.)

One deals with scrapbooking, the other -self explanatory.

 

BTW, I noticed that about half of your eleven finds, you stated you, "left your card"...

[+geowizerd]

BTW, I noticed that about half of your eleven finds, you stated you, "left your card"...

 

Good points, my appologies. I have altered the picture to block the addresses. However. Here is "My card":

You'll notice there's no web address. I'm not selling anything.

Edited December 27, 2007 by geowizerd

[+fairyhoney]

Was out caching this afternoon, and found these umm, "business cards" in a cache. And Snoogans thought he was king of shameless self-promotion! I don't even know what the top card is even about!!! In my humble (or not so) opinion, this kind of crap should NOT be put into other people's caches! What do you think?

 

The Power Of Vision?!? Yeah, it really helps for not whacking into things!

But as I am writing this post, I still see their web sites and That shouldn't be cool

[+fairyhoney]

WOW, THAT was strange, I swear they weren't fixed when I posted the last but they were fixed after I hit "add reply" So, Sorry

[+vw_k]

Im my opinion, calling cards (like geowizerds) are fine in caches, although I don't see much point as you can just sign the logbook, that's what it's there for.

 

Business cards on the other hand don't belong in caches, I don't hike miles on a cold day to uncover hidden adverts for psychic services, upvc window frames or drain cleaning companies, that's what the yellow pages is for!

 

Some people need to know when not to mix business with pleasure, I bet these are the sort of people you'd meet whilst your kids are playing football, and then they'd insist on telling you how much they could save you on wooden flooring!

[+tabulator32]

Those cards are for public motivational speakers, apparently, and are supposed to be charging people money to speak at their engagements and bestow their knowledge and insight onto the audience. It kind of lets me know what brilliant people they are by there willingness to either:

 

1. unwittingly drop their business card in every little nook and cranny they can find as if they were desperate for business and could not find work, or

 

2. actually KNEW about geocaching and its rules and just blatantly went against them because their agenda is obviously more important.

 

Oh! There is also the possibility they were muggles that had no clue, happened upon the cache, read the cache page everyone prints to put in their cache and simply decided to leave their business card instead of muggling the cache.

 

They might not be cachers!

 

(Ooh! Now there is a good working title for a suspense novel about caching.)

 

[+geowizerd]

Yes, they were cachers, with a fair amount of finds - and presumably, a fair amount of this geo-litter dispersed. It is/was just shocking! Here was my reaction looking into the cache....

 

[+tabulator32]

Go to their websites and find a mailing address.

 

Send them a box with a note that says "Thank you for participating in the Fair Trade Trash Exchange Program" and send them a few days worth of garbage from the kitchen trash can in sealed bag.

 

Make sure you place their business cards on the top of the bag so they can use them again.

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

Personally, while I have never left a card of any kind in any cache, I never mind finding geocacher cards or business cards -- even the silly self-promotional ones from the real estate agents and motivational speakers -- in a cache. They simply do not bother me; I never take them, but I also do not get upset about them. BTW, this thing of placing business cards in caches seems to be very much a regional custom or trend; I seem to find it to be much more commonplace in parts of the Western USA and in specific regions of my state (MD) than anywhere else.

 

BTW, regarding the whole issue of whether it is okay, that is, in terms of invasion of privacy, to reproduce in a forum post an unaltered image -- including names, website URLs and email addresses, shown on silly business cards left in caches, I feel that if a geocacher knowingly and willingly left their silly biz card in a cache and I found it, then it is entirely fair game whatever I choose to do with that card. If I want to post on one of my websites an image of that card, complete with the names, URLs and email addresses shown on it, that is simply my right to do so, and the person who left the card has relinquished all say and all claim in the matter by the act of leaving the card. Of course, when it comes to posting such unaltered images to these forums, it is true that if the practice were to become prevalent, then Groundspeak might object to the practice on the grounds that it is providing free advertising (or free ridicule!) to the placers of the biz cards!

[+Team Crime Scene]

 

BTW, regarding the whole issue of whether it is okay, that is, in terms of invasion of privacy, to reproduce in a forum post an unaltered image -- including names, website URLs and email addresses, shown on silly business cards left in caches, I feel that if a geocacher knowingly and willingly left their silly biz card in a cache and I found it, then it is entirely fair game whatever I choose to do with that card. If I want to post on one of my websites an image of that card, complete with the names, URLs and email addresses shown on it, that is simply my right to do so, and the person who left the card has relinquished all say and all claim in the matter by the act of leaving the card. Of course, when it comes to posting such unaltered images to these forums, it is true that if the practice were to become prevalent, then Groundspeak might object to the practice on the grounds that it is providing free advertising (or free ridicule!) to the placers of the biz cards!

 

I've lurked here for some time now and have had on occasion a chance to truly get through one of Vinny N Sues rants. This one is by far completely agreeable. If someone leaves their card and are hoping for free advertisement it should be my duty to call them out.

 

On the other hand is does not bother me when I see business cards. maybe I'll leave my business card for the cacher who looks for the cache seven times and finally finds it in an obvious spot and wants to off themselves. Maybe not.

 

OOPS sorry for the gratuitous advertising.

 

TCS

[+Indotguy]

I'm annoyed by stupid cache aliases, number runs, golf ball swag, "cemetEry" spelled with an "A", caches full of wet, soggy paper calling cards, plastic army men, and silly putty. Sorry, I could go on and on.

On the other hand, I don't feel it useful to visit the forums and air these issues...well, at least not unless someone else does first.

[+tabulator32]

Its certainly not an invasion of privacy to post images of someone's business card, especially when it was given to you (or left for you in a cache). In this case, all the personal and contact information has been obliterated and there is nothing to see but imagery (which is the way it should be...no free advertising for these people).

 

I think the point is...there is an existing rule that caching is supposed to be commercial free with the exception of pre-approved ventures by Groundspeak (fair enough...their ball, their game).

 

If EVERYONE were allowed to leave their business cards, this would be a community of ammo cans and tupperware with bumper stickers all over them and filled with with little rubber-banded stacks of business cards hidden in the woods and under lamp post covers.

 

Of course, the bumper stickers would make the caches easier to find.

[+tabulator32]

I'm annoyed by stupid cache aliases, number runs, golf ball swag, "cemetEry" spelled with an "A", caches full of wet, soggy paper calling cards, plastic army men, and silly putty. Sorry, I could go on and on.

On the other hand, I don't feel it useful to visit the forums and air these issues...well, at least not unless someone else does first.

 

If not in the forums, then WHERE?!

 

[+KJcachers]

Just take the cards home and throw them away. If you are really motivated send them an email discussing the merits of spamming a cache box.

[+KG1960]

My first impression when I read the OP was (and remains) a big "So What?" Just another insignificant thing that's easy to ignore.

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

My first impression when I read the OP was (and remains) a big "So What?" Just another insignificant thing that's easy to ignore.

Exactly!

[+carleenp]

They are tacky, but will generally get ignored or trashed out by others anyway.

[+alex818]

I have to agree that it can get annoying if caches start getting cluttered wth business cards but what do you all think about this idea?....

 

What if someone hides their own cache somewhere in the hills and tapes their own business card to the underside of the lid? Would that still be undesired/annoying?

[+Walt Jabsco]

I don't see anything wrong with leaving a personal calling card, like geowizerd's, if it's something you made just for geocaching. This is the one I leave behind:

 

 

Those who know what ska is will smile, the other 99.5 percent of the population will either go huh? or just ignore it. I'm not selling anything or promising to lead anyone to salvation or prosperity, just having fun. If you don't like it pick it up, pick it up, pick it up, and throw it away.

 

Edit: Also, I laminate mine, 1. 'cuz I'm narcississtic, 2. So they won't be part of the soggy bundle in the bottom of the cache.

Edited December 27, 2007 by Walt Jabsco

[+The Leprechauns]

On a caching trip last month to the area just east of me where these cachers hunt a lot of caches, I found their calling cards in many of the caches I visited. I rolled my eyes briefly, then pushed them aside so I could search each cache for the logbook and for any trackables.

 

"Cards" of any type -- whether caching-specific calling cards, business cards or "agenda" cards -- only bother me in the following ways:

 

-- If the cards are jammed into a logbook and they all fall out loose onto the ground when I grab the logbook to sign it, that's annoying. Either don't put them in the logbook, or fasten them with a staple or piece of tape.

 

-- Soggy pulp cards in a wet cache are of no use to anyone. A nice laminator and a couple months' supply of plastic sleeves will set you back less than $50. (Hmmm... I really need to laminate more of those "why is there a hamster in this cache?" cards, as people are starting to complain and ask lots of questions.)

 

Other than that, they're just cards. Little inanimate paper objects that don't take up much room. It's hard to get too bothered by them.

[+Team GeoBlast]

BTW, I noticed that about half of your eleven finds, you stated you, "left your card"...

 

Good points, my appologies. I have altered the picture to block the addresses. However. Here is "My card":

You'll notice there's no web address. I'm not selling anything.

 

That is a very nice card, I hope you take the time to laminate it. Otherwise, paper just turns to geotrash in a short period of time. A matter of days here in the islands.

[+Team GeoBlast]

 

BTW, regarding the whole issue of whether it is okay, that is, in terms of invasion of privacy, to reproduce in a forum post an unaltered image -- including names, website URLs and email addresses, shown on silly business cards left in caches, I feel that if a geocacher knowingly and willingly left their silly biz card in a cache and I found it, then it is entirely fair game whatever I choose to do with that card. If I want to post on one of my websites an image of that card, complete with the names, URLs and email addresses shown on it, that is simply my right to do so, and the person who left the card has relinquished all say and all claim in the matter by the act of leaving the card. Of course, when it comes to posting such unaltered images to these forums, it is true that if the practice were to become prevalent, then Groundspeak might object to the practice on the grounds that it is providing free advertising (or free ridicule!) to the placers of the biz cards!

 

I've lurked here for some time now and have had on occasion a chance to truly get through one of Vinny N Sues rants. This one is by far completely agreeable. If someone leaves their card and are hoping for free advertisement it should be my duty to call them out.

 

On the other hand is does not bother me when I see business cards. maybe I'll leave my business card for the cacher who looks for the cache seven times and finally finds it in an obvious spot and wants to off themselves. Maybe not.

 

OOPS sorry for the gratuitous advertising.

 

TCS

 

You mean you actually read them? J/K

[+Walt Jabsco]

Eventually, I'm going to make mine into a geocoin, with the left side on the front, and the right side on the back. Then instead instead of being scoffed at and treated with disdain, I will become a highly desirable collectible, and be stolen and disappear.

[+Team GeoBlast]

My first impression when I read the OP was (and remains) a big "So What?" Just another insignificant thing that's easy to ignore.

 

Do you feel the same about litter on the trail? Do you wait until it is really mossy and indistinguishable from other organics before paying attention?

[+briansnat]

I've seen worse. Pretty harmless. Nothing I'd rant about in the forums, that's for sure.

[+ReadyOrNot]

Ummmmm.. Can someone tell me where it's against the rules to place a business card as swag in a geocache?

[+Team Crime Scene]

Guilty

 

 

You mean you actually read them? J/K

[+KJcachers]

actually I could care less about a card being left in a cache unless it's something "adult" which would affect having kids along. These I would dispose of privately. Hopefully "adult spam" can stay on the internet and out of caches.

Edited December 27, 2007 by KJcachers

[+we"re lost]

Something that happened to us this summer we were out caching and swag buttons/chips with screen name or team names or whatever was left in holes in trees, on state "STOP" signs, on the ground near the cache, out in the open where people can see them. the one that was on the ground was put right where the cache was, that took the fun out of finding the cache. I took them or put them in the cache.

I can't see leaving them to litter up the area.

That is just wrong leaving them out in the open. i don't understand why a person would do that.

 

we"re lost

[+The Jester]

Ummmmm.. Can someone tell me where it's against the rules to place a business card as swag in a geocache?

Yeah, tab, can you point out that rule these guys were breaking?

[groundhog123]

I will often leave a card from our outdoor camping club. This card has contact info for folks interested in joining a family oriented hiking/biking/canoeing/camping club in our area. I hope no one finds this offensive. I just use it as way to drum up interest since many people that geocache also enjoy the aforementioned activities.

[+Driver Carries Cache]

Mmmmm... I suppose that means that leaving cards offering "Free Tick Checks" is probably right out.

 

 

DCC

[majormajor42]

Just as it is slightly annoying to have renewal postcards fall out of a magazine, I don't like it when the cards fly out of the logbook. These are usually the non-commercial cards (that are being called geowizerds and calling cards here?). anyway, I don't intend to litter so I have to chase these cards as they fall out and get blown around outside. I'll usually throw them back in the cache (within a ziplock bag perhaps) and not in the logbook. I think if you like leaving these cards, putting them in the ziplog bag, if there is one, with the logbook and not in the logbook itself is the best place for them.

[+egami]

Imo, if their are business card of cachers I don't have any problem with them...I've done business with two cachers that I saw their card in a log book.

 

If it's just spammers out trolling cache locations to advertise something without participating, contributing to geocaching...I'd yank them.

[+tabulator32]

Ummmmm.. Can someone tell me where it's against the rules to place a business card as swag in a geocache?

Yeah, tab, can you point out that rule these guys were breaking?

 

Although the rules I will paste below apply to the PLACER of a cache, I believe those who come after the fact and place soliciations as such in the cache are not adhering to the "spirit" of the rule.

 

<paste>

 

Commercial Caches

 

Commercial caches attempt to use the Geocaching.com web site cache reporting tool directly or indirectly (intentionally or non-intentionally) to solicit customers through a Geocaching.com listing. These are NOT permitted. Examples include for-profit locations that require an entrance fee, or locations that sell products or services. If the finder is required to go inside the business, interact with employees, and/or purchase a product or service, then the cache is presumed to be commercial.

 

Some exceptions can be made. In these situations, permission can be given by Groundspeak. However, permission should be asked first before posting. If you are in doubt, ask first. If you do not have advance permission, your reviewer will refer you to Groundspeak.

 

Caches that Solicit

 

Solicitations are off-limits. For example, caches perceived to be posted for religious, political, charitable or social agendas are not permitted. Geocaching is supposed to be a light, fun activity, not a platform for an agenda.

 

</paste>

 

No, I am not the cache police...just interjecting my opinion.

 

Thanks.

Edited December 28, 2007 by tabulator32

[+ironman114]

Ummmmm.. Can someone tell me where it's against the rules to place a business card as swag in a geocache?

Yeah, tab, can you point out that rule these guys were breaking?

 

Although the rules I will paste below apply to the PLACER of a cache, I believe those who come after the fact and place soliciations as such in the cache are not adhering to the "spirit" of the rule.

 

............

 

No, I am not the cache police...just interjecting my opinion.

 

Thanks.

 

I think you hit it right here!

 

I didn't see any reference to a rule for finders only hiders.

 

It seems this rule is ignored at times too:

 

Caches that Solicit

 

Solicitations are off-limits. For example, caches perceived to be posted for religious, political, charitable or social agendas are not permitted. Geocaching is supposed to be a light, fun activity, not a platform for an agenda.

[+BlueDeuce]

Ummmmm.. Can someone tell me where it's against the rules to place a business card as swag in a geocache?

 

No rule of course , but I would appreciate people not dropping in obvious advertisements into caches. Sig cards are fine, but heck these things didn't even give me 50 cents off anything.

 

Usually when I see such stuff I think 'oh brother' and trade the stuff out. I figure that's all I need to do.

[+ironman114]

Ummmmm.. Can someone tell me where it's against the rules to place a business card as swag in a geocache?

 

No rule of course , but I would appreciate people not dropping in obvious advertisements into caches. Sig cards are fine, but heck these things didn't even give me 50 cents off anything.

 

Usually when I see such stuff I think 'oh brother' and trade the stuff out. I figure that's all I need to do.

 

But are they advertising or is that the only "signature" thing that they have?

[+The Jester]

Ummmmm.. Can someone tell me where it's against the rules to place a business card as swag in a geocache?

Yeah, tab, can you point out that rule these guys were breaking?

 

Although the rules I will paste below apply to the PLACER of a cache, I believe those who come after the fact and place soliciations as such in the cache are not adhering to the "spirit" of the rule.

 

<paste>

 

Commercial Caches

 

Commercial caches attempt to use the Geocaching.com web site cache reporting tool directly or indirectly (intentionally or non-intentionally) to solicit customers through a Geocaching.com listing. These are NOT permitted. Examples include for-profit locations that require an entrance fee, or locations that sell products or services. If the finder is required to go inside the business, interact with employees, and/or purchase a product or service, then the cache is presumed to be commercial.

 

Some exceptions can be made. In these situations, permission can be given by Groundspeak. However, permission should be asked first before posting. If you are in doubt, ask first. If you do not have advance permission, your reviewer will refer you to Groundspeak.

 

Caches that Solicit

 

Solicitations are off-limits. For example, caches perceived to be posted for religious, political, charitable or social agendas are not permitted. Geocaching is supposed to be a light, fun activity, not a platform for an agenda.

 

</paste>

 

No, I am not the cache police...just interjecting my opinion.

 

Thanks.

I take then, that you are against gift cards as FTF prizes also? They are a blatant ad for the store they come from - in fact they force the person taking them to enter said store, interact with store personnel, and buy something! Do some search of these forums and you'll find that personal cards, coupons, and gift cards are allowed and NOT discouraged.

[+tabulator32]

I take then, that you are against gift cards as FTF prizes also? They are a blatant ad for the store they come from - in fact they force the person taking them to enter said store, interact with store personnel, and buy something! Do some search of these forums and you'll find that personal cards, coupons, and gift cards are allowed and NOT discouraged.

 

I don't need to do a search in the forums. I am well aware how frequently gift cards and coupons are used and I think its fine.

 

I am not opposed to gift cards being placed as FTF prizes or at any time as they offer something of actual value. Coupons are a little more ambiguous as they usually require a purchase, but they are still fine because someone can choose to not use it.

 

Business cards with no such "prize" value are nothing more than solicitation.

 

Again, just my opinion. Such should be taken with a grain of sodium chloride.

[+geowizerd]

Wow, a lot has happened here in a day! Let me say this:

 

1. I indeed was tempted to just "trash out" those cards, but it was not my cache, so I didn't think I had the right to decide what stays or goes from somebody else's cache. Now, when I place my own caches, that kind of thing will be gone every time I do maintenence.

 

2. Just like separation of church and state is a good idea for government, I don't believe caches should contain any solicitations for business, religion or politics. Period. Not by the owner of the cache, and not by visitors to it. As far as the gift cards for FTF, that is a gift, not a solicitation.

 

3. Thanks for the kudos on my calling card. Currently I have been printing them at the local self-serve photo machine (I get 3 to a glossy 4x6 print), and then spraying the backs with clear acrylic spray. I just got a laminate machine for Christmas, and will start laminating them as soon as I get some pouches. I don't want them to end up as soggy quag in the bottom of a container, either. I'm looking to get some kind of signature swag (pens, keychains, etc.) in a couple months, after the financial drain that is Christmas (and winter heating oil) has worn off.

 

4. I'm happy this thread has generated some very interesting and thought-provoking discussions!

Edited December 28, 2007 by geowizerd

[+joranda]

I wouldn't let it get under my skin. Just find the cache, log it and move on. At least it's not open razor blades or needles!

[+Texsox]

I think my first hide will be a special business card cache. I think I found the perfect container.

 

[+Team GeoBlast]

Ummmmm.. Can someone tell me where it's against the rules to place a business card as swag in a geocache?

Yeah, tab, can you point out that rule these guys were breaking?

 

Can you imagine a written rule for everything that common sense should dictate?

 

If you are leaving swag in a cache, it is common sense to contemplate how that swag might deal with things that around that cache, things like water and dirt. The reality is that paper has a life which is greatly shortened when exposed to certain elements.

[+geowizerd]

I think my first hide will be a special business card cache. I think I found the perfect container.

 

 

ROTFLMAO!!!

[+geowizerd]

At least it's not open razor blades or needles!

 

Hey, at least those things could be useful!

[+egami]

Wow, a lot has happened here in a day! Let me say this:

 

1. I indeed was tempted to just "trash out" those cards, but it was not my cache, so I didn't think I had the right to decide what stays or goes from somebody else's cache. Now, when I place my own caches, that kind of thing will be gone every time I do maintenence.

 

Would you trash out something more obvious that shouldn't be there, or conversely would you maintain another persons cache if it was in obvious need and you had the resources? I guess I view cache maintenance as owner responsibility, but also a community function.

 

I am not trying to pick a bone with you...just kind of a food for thought thing. Personally, I know they won't publish caches for these types of things, so by virtue of that I view it as deliberate "end around" to try and get advertising into geocaching and wouldn't feel bad about taking that action.

 

Again, as I stated earlier, I would be careful about it...for example, I've left a number of business cards stapled to log books because it was obvious that they were cachers and supporting geocaching and actively involved. I've even done business with some of them as a result of that.

 

Interesting topic...

[+ReadyOrNot]

hmmmmmm.. Where to start....

 

Wow, a lot has happened here in a day! Let me say this:

 

1. I indeed was tempted to just "trash out" those cards, but it was not my cache, so I didn't think I had the right to decide what stays or goes from somebody else's cache. Now, when I place my own caches, that kind of thing will be gone every time I do maintenence.

You can trash out WHATEVER you want. Just put something else in that's better.

 

2. Just like separation of church and state is a good idea for government, I don't believe caches should contain any solicitations for business, religion or politics. Period. Not by the owner of the cache, and not by visitors to it. As far as the gift cards for FTF, that is a gift, not a solicitation.

The constitution clearly states that government shall not create a law establishing a religion NOR PREVENTING THE FREE EXPRESSION OF A RELIGION. Everyone seems to forget the bolded part. Not sure what this "Separation of church and state" thing is... Maybe you should read the constitution.

 

3. Thanks for the kudos on my calling card. Currently I have been printing them at the local self-serve photo machine (I get 3 to a glossy 4x6 print), and then spraying the backs with clear acrylic spray. I just got a laminate machine for Christmas, and will start laminating them as soon as I get some pouches. I don't want them to end up as soggy quag in the bottom of a container, either. I'm looking to get some kind of signature swag (pens, keychains, etc.) in a couple months, after the financial drain that is Christmas (and winter heating oil) has worn off.

 

4. I'm happy this thread has generated some very interesting and thought-provoking discussions!

It's always interesting when people start telling others what they can leave and what they can't

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

Mmmmm... I suppose that means that leaving cards offering "Free Tick Checks" is probably right out.

 

DCC

 

He looks like he just found one of your Free Tick Check cards! You sure you're up for the job?