Level 5 Difficulty

[+MaplessInSeattle]

If a rope is needed to complete the cache, this would make the cache a 5 correct?

If so, and the rope is provided for you, does this still qualify as a level 5?

[+Prime Suspect]

If a rope is needed to complete the cache, this would make the cache a 5 correct?

If so, and the rope is provided for you, does this still qualify as a level 5?

"Special Equipment" generally refers to something you need to bring with you. If the rope is already in place, then, no, I wouldn't call it a Terrain 5 on that accord alone. However, whatever rope skills that are required may influence the rating.

[+MaplessInSeattle]

However, whatever rope skills that are required may influence the rating.

Well, they wouldn't have to rappel, but they'd have to go down, using the rope, and come up using it.

[+TrailGators]

However, whatever rope skills that are required may influence the rating.

Well, they wouldn't have to rappel, but they'd have to go down, using the rope, and come up using it.

We have caches like that that are rated in the 3 range for terrain but like BD said you need to figure out how much difficulty the rope adds.

[+Team GeoBlast]

If a rope is needed to complete the cache, this would make the cache a 5 correct?

If so, and the rope is provided for you, does this still qualify as a level 5?

 

This rope was provided. It's been found 15 times and there's not been one complaint about the 5 terrain rating thus far.

 

Edited December 16, 2007 by Team GeoBlast

[+9Key]

I agree with Prime - if you provide the rope then it's not a 5.

[knowschad]

I guess that I would have to agree with the comments about it not being a 5 terrain, but if a rope is truely neccessary, then make sure that is clear by rating it 4.5. Be careful, though, that you don't overrate the difficulty... the type of person that will go for a 4.5 or 5 is likely to be very vocal if they find it to be too easy for them.

 

To be honest, ratings (both terrain and difficulty) are EXTREMELY subjective. What might be a 1.5 terrain for an athletic 20 year old may well be a 4.5 terrain for a couch-potato 65 year old. Or what may be easy in the summer might be a sum-beach in the winter snows.

[+Team GeoBlast]

Double dribble, sorry.

Edited December 16, 2007 by Team GeoBlast

[+Team Cotati]

If a rope is needed to complete the cache, this would make the cache a 5 correct?

If so, and the rope is provided for you, does this still qualify as a level 5?

 

This rope was provided. It's been found 15 times and there's not been one complaint about the 5 terrain rating thus far.

 

 

What's the GC # on that one?

[+MaplessInSeattle]

What's the GC # on that one?

Yes, where is that?

[+Team Cotati]

I guess that I would have to agree with the comments about it not being a 5 terrain, but if a rope is truely neccessary, then make sure that is clear by rating it 4.5. Be careful, though, that you don't overrate the difficulty... the type of person that will go for a 4.5 or 5 is likely to be very vocal if they find it to be too easy for them.

 

To be honest, ratings (both terrain and difficulty) are EXTREMELY subjective. What might be a 1.5 terrain for an athletic 20 year old may well be a 4.5 terrain for a couch-potato 65 year old. Or what may be easy in the summer might be a sum-beach in the winter snows.

 

I don't think that the geocaching rating system takes into account consideration of the age of the cache hunter.

[+Team GeoBlast]

What's the GC # on that one?

Yes, where is that?

 

GCR5PH I Triple Dog Dare You

[+MaplessInSeattle]

What's the GC # on that one?

Yes, where is that?

 

GCR5PH I Triple Dog Dare You

if i ever can afford Hawaii, i'll do it.

[+BigWhiteTruck]

The terrain rating is supposed to rate the terrain. If the rope is provided to you or not is irrelevant. The fact that the terrain is so dangerous that a rope is needed to traverse safely makes it a level 5 terrain rating.

 

Ownership of said rope is irrelevant.

[+Isonzo Karst]

I agree with BigWhiteTruck on this one. If the rope is necessary, and it looks to be, then special equipment is required and that's a terrain 5.

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

However, whatever rope skills that are required may influence the rating.

Well, they wouldn't have to rappel, but they'd have to go down, using the rope, and come up using it.

As the owner of a number of Terrain 5 caches, and having found many Terrain 4+ caches, my feeling is that if the climb is relatively vertical and unsafe without a rope, and if a rope is needed -- whether you provide it or not -- then a Terrain rating of 5 is warranted. At the very least, you would want to assign a Terrain rating of 4.5. Of course, I do not know the details of the hide location and the access, etc., and so this is all just my best guess!

 

BTW, one MAJOR hazard attendant to providing a rope, if a seeker's life will largely depend upon the integrity of the rope, is that it is then incumbent upon you to make sure that the rope is attached securely to one or more totally "bulletproof" (i.e., failproof) anchors and that the rope is made of a synthetic material which will resist rot for a reasonable period of time when exposed to the elements, and that the rope has a working capacity of at least several thousand pounds. Another hazard of providing a rope in near-vertical or vertical settings is that many inexperienced persons may end up being able to descend the rope but may not be able to ascend it. Unless a fixed-installation rope is equipped with knots or other handholds every foot or so, it can be very difficult to climb a rope by hand; this is why mechanical ascender devices are so popular in the climbing world.

[+joranda]

It's your cache and if you think getting to and from the cache is a 5 then you make it a five. take the rope away and it'd be a 5 for sure.

[+Mopar]

I can't help but notice that the topic is "Level 5 Difficulty" yet every single post so far talks about level 5 terrain.

[+Isonzo Karst]

Thanks Mopar, you're correct. The difficulty should be how hard it is to come up with the cache once on site. The terrain is a 5 on the cache pictured. The difficulty could be pretty high, given that the same set of coords will describe an awful lot of territory on a hillside that steep. A small cache there could really take some hunting. A bright yellow 5 gallon bucket near that path could be a one difficulty.

[+cerberus1]

I gotta agree with Vinny (a first ?) on this one.

However , the post says level 5 DIFFUCULTY, not terrain.

 

The CO in GCR5PH states that's a CABLE, not a rope. Excellant hide though !

Would make more sense, as "rope" would rot with the weather -eventually.

 

Wouldn't you as the CO HAVE to become liable in some way, since YOU provide the means to get to the cache ? I sure wouldn't want that kind of responsibility. Ownership of the rope is NOT irrelevant.

 

Been to two with "provided" rope so far. One was fine, the other (luckily) snapped before lowering.

 

For safetys' sake, folks who go after "5" terrain caches would have the common sense to bring their own equiptment.

The rest could pose a problem...

[+Team GeoBlast]

The terrain rating is supposed to rate the terrain. If the rope is provided to you or not is irrelevant. The fact that the terrain is so dangerous that a rope is needed to traverse safely makes it a level 5 terrain rating.

 

Ownership of said rope is irrelevant.

 

100% concur with this. You are rating terrain to allow the seeker to properly prepare. With all the possibilities that the earths surface presents, a steadfast rule like rope ownership is really pretty silly to even consider.

 

On the other side of the coin if the terrain is such that you are required to bring your own rope where one is not provided, this is certainly a factor that would push the difficulty higher. However, I can think of a few climbs/hikes where bringing a rope was necessary where I would not rate the terrain a 5.

[+hukilaulau]

Yikes! I thought that pic looked familiar. I hiked around there when I lived in Hawaii long before geocaching. I agree with others who say it should be a terrain 5 for all the reasons stated and one other: out of state hikers are notorious for underestimating the danger of climbing in these mountains. The lava cliffs are much more brittle than most mainlanders are used to, and if they have any kind of vegitation growing on them they are even more deceptive. There have even been cases of deaths at roadside vistas because someone takes one too many steps backwards to get in just the right position for a great snapshot!

[+Team GeoBlast]

I can't help but notice that the topic is "Level 5 Difficulty" yet every single post so far talks about level 5 terrain.

 

Pretty sure that the OP meant terrain because the question related to the use of a rope.

[+Team GeoBlast]

The terrain rating is supposed to rate the terrain. If the rope is provided to you or not is irrelevant. The fact that the terrain is so dangerous that a rope is needed to traverse safely makes it a level 5 terrain rating.

 

Ownership of said rope is irrelevant.

 

100% concur with this. You are rating terrain to allow the seeker to properly prepare. With all the possibilities that the earths surface presents, a steadfast rule like rope ownership is really pretty silly to even consider.

 

On the other side of the coin if the terrain is such that you are required to bring your own rope where one is not provided, this is certainly a factor that would push the "difficulty" higher. However, I can think of a few climbs/hikes where bringing a rope was necessary where I would not rate the terrain a 5.

[+JoesBar]

 

BTW, one MAJOR hazard attendant to providing a rope, if a seeker's life will largely depend upon the integrity of the rope, is that it is then incumbent upon you to make sure that the rope is attached securely to one or more totally "bulletproof" (i.e., failproof) anchors and that the rope is made of a synthetic material which will resist rot for a reasonable period of time when exposed to the elements, and that the rope has a working capacity of at least several thousand pounds. Another hazard of providing a rope in near-vertical or vertical settings is that many inexperienced persons may end up being able to descend the rope but may not be able to ascend it. Unless a fixed-installation rope is equipped with knots or other handholds every foot or so, it can be very difficult to climb a rope by hand; this is why mechanical ascender devices are so popular in the climbing world.

 

I agree 100%. Far more important than the terrain discussion here are the points made by Vinny & Sue. There is no way in heck that I'm going to trust my life to a rope left exposed to the elements and anchored to who knows what. I'm sure the local Tech Rescue Team/ Fire Dept. would like to be informed so they can prepare for the rescue, or recovery.

[+Team GeoBlast]

Yikes! I thought that pic looked familiar. I hiked around there when I lived in Hawaii long before geocaching. I agree with others who say it should be a terrain 5 for all the reasons stated and one other: out of state hikers are notorious for underestimating the danger of climbing in these mountains. The lava cliffs are much more brittle than most mainlanders are used to, and if they have any kind of vegitation growing on them they are even more deceptive. There have even been cases of deaths at roadside vistas because someone takes one too many steps backwards to get in just the right position for a great snapshot!

 

You'll have to head back now that Geocaching is established. I guarantee that you'll find a few places that you missed in your earlier adventures. Yes, it can get a little tricky up on the ridge trails and that is why we offer to tour guide whenever possible if visiting cachers want to try these 5 star caches on the island. The rules are definitely a little different from where most have experience hiking and a little local knowledge can make a sizable difference in safety.

[+MaplessInSeattle]

To All:

Sorry, I was talking to a new geocacher in IMs when I made the original post.

It should have read Level 5 Terrain.

If I get permission from land owner, I will just make it a 5, mention rope, and leave it at that. I was gonna leave one of my poly ropes there, but since I cannot guard it 24/7 and make sure no one cuts it, I'm probably gonna just take it with me.

Thank you for input

[+Team GeoBlast]

 

BTW, one MAJOR hazard attendant to providing a rope, if a seeker's life will largely depend upon the integrity of the rope, is that it is then incumbent upon you to make sure that the rope is attached securely to one or more totally "bulletproof" (i.e., failproof) anchors and that the rope is made of a synthetic material which will resist rot for a reasonable period of time when exposed to the elements, and that the rope has a working capacity of at least several thousand pounds. Another hazard of providing a rope in near-vertical or vertical settings is that many inexperienced persons may end up being able to descend the rope but may not be able to ascend it. Unless a fixed-installation rope is equipped with knots or other handholds every foot or so, it can be very difficult to climb a rope by hand; this is why mechanical ascender devices are so popular in the climbing world.

 

I agree 100%. Far more important than the terrain discussion here are the points made by Vinny & Sue. There is no way in heck that I'm going to trust my life to a rope left exposed to the elements and anchored to who knows what. I'm sure the local Tech Rescue Team/ Fire Dept. would like to be informed so they can prepare for the rescue, or recovery.

 

Well, you do have the opportunity to inspect the rope and what it is anchored to before jumping on it. Every situation is different. We have a very capable mountain and trail club that posts their trail clearing and maintenance schedules on their website. You can easily find out when the last time the trail has been cleared and ropes/cables checked. I've hiked when them on numerous occasions and observed what they do. I'm still going to check ANY rope before I trust it with my life but if they've been up there within a year, I probably won't bother bringing a replacement.

[+Team GeoBlast]

What's the GC # on that one?

Yes, where is that?

 

GCR5PH I Triple Dog Dare You

if i ever can afford Hawaii, i'll do it.

 

Gimme a shout if you do.