fujitsu Posted December 13, 2007 Posted December 13, 2007 Hi there! I put a question to Garmin about the "new" firmware version (2.40) for Vista HCx and the answer was: Dear Antonio Jorge de Oliveira Aleixo, Thank you for contacting Garmin International. Some of the newer models do have a different chipset however there is no option to upgrade to this chipset version on the older units. If you should have any further questions or concerns, please feel free to contact us. With Best Regards, Shawn V Product Support Specialist 2nd Shift Outdoor/Fitness Team Garmin International 913-397-8200 800-800-1020 913-397-8282 (fax) Att: Shawn V www.garmin.com Original Message Follows: ------------------------ Hi there! It seems that there is some Vista HCx that has a new GPS Chipset version. Could you confirm that, please? Could we update it? I send a picture of that. Best regards António Aleixo So, thus anyone knows anything about a new chipset for the newer HCx models? I already notice that ther isn´t no mention to MEDIATEK on the open screen. Regards Quote
FiveNines Posted December 13, 2007 Posted December 13, 2007 So, thus anyone knows anything about a new chipset for the newer HCx models? I already notice that ther isn´t no mention to MEDIATEK on the open screen. Regards That is true. Here are the two welcome screens I get. No mention of MediaTek. Here's an older welcome screen from GPS Passion for comparison. Quote
jmundinger Posted December 13, 2007 Posted December 13, 2007 I also sent Garmin an inquiry on this issue. I'm wondering whether the new chip set is the solution to the trip computer issue. I intend to ask that question when I receive a reply from Garmin and I suggest that you and others, who also have inquired about the firmware 2.40 do the same. Quote
jmundinger Posted December 13, 2007 Posted December 13, 2007 (edited) The following is the email that I received from Garmin: Thank you for contacting Garmin International, the only version available would be what is on our website. If a different version is on a newer unit that version will become available when the engineers feel it is necessary. I cannot clarify your statement of " I understand that the new units come with Software Version 2.40 and GPS Version 2.40 installed." as I have no way to check a new unit. With Best Regards, Patricia E Software Support Specialist Software Team Garmin International 913-397-8200 800-800-1020 913-397-8282 (fax) Att: Patricia E www.garmin.com To that, here is my reply: Patricia - another person posted a slightly different reply to the same question from someone else at Garmin on the geocache.com bulletin board. I've pasted a copy of that reply below this message. My basic concern with all of this is that there is a know issue with a faulty trip computer in the VistaHCX. I have reported this issue - others have reported this issue - and, based on prior correspondence with Garmin, you (Garmin) also are aware of this issue. I am waiting patiently for a fix. However, if the fix is to use a different chip set, with different firmware and that fix is not available to those who purchased the older versions of the Vista HCX, I will be one very disappointed beta tester. Thanks. Edited December 13, 2007 by jmundinger Quote
fujitsu Posted December 13, 2007 Author Posted December 13, 2007 Hi! And what should we do if now they use another chipset? Could we return our equipment to change with the new ones? Regards AA Quote
+JohnTee Posted December 13, 2007 Posted December 13, 2007 That is true. Here are the two welcome screens I get. No mention of MediaTek. Hmmmm, I get all of the screen on the left and only the first two lines of the screen on the right. My software comes up: Software Version 2.40 GPS SW Version 2.40 I talked to Garmin tech support the other day, while we were talking I asked about the two versions. The first is basically the Operating System (OS) and the second is the GPS Receiver software. JohnTee Quote
fujitsu Posted December 13, 2007 Author Posted December 13, 2007 Hi! This is a bite strange. I can not understand garmins' response. Garmin must know what is happen with these particular models. I am a little bite disappointed with Garmin. I am now also waitting for a response to my question. Regads AA Quote
jmundinger Posted December 13, 2007 Posted December 13, 2007 Hi! And what should we do if now they use another chipset? Could we return our equipment to change with the new ones? Regards AA The units came with warranties - but, I admit, I have not read mine carefully. If the new chipset was used to correct a flaw in the original chipset, the original units were defective when they left the factory. If that is the scenario - I have not yet confirmed that is the case - Garmin has a legal obligation, within the terms of the warranty, to correct the problem. Quote
jmundinger Posted December 13, 2007 Posted December 13, 2007 Hi! And what should we do if now they use another chipset? Could we return our equipment to change with the new ones? Regards AA The units came with warranties - but, I admit, I have not read mine carefully. If the new chipset was used to correct a flaw in the original chipset, the original units were defective when they left the factory. If that is the scenario - I have not yet confirmed that is the case - Garmin has a legal obligation, within the terms of the warranty, to correct the problem. Quote
fujitsu Posted December 13, 2007 Author Posted December 13, 2007 Thanks jmundinger! I agree with you. Well, let's wait to see. If I know more about this issue I will tell. Regards AA Quote
+JSWilson64 Posted December 13, 2007 Posted December 13, 2007 If the new chipset was used to correct a flaw in the original chipset, the original units were defective when they left the factory. If that is the scenario - I have not yet confirmed that is the case - Garmin has a legal obligation, within the terms of the warranty, to correct the problem. I seriously doubt that line of reasoning would hold up with Garmin or in a court of law. One man's "correction of a flaw" is another man's "ongoing product improvement cycle" or somesuch. Of course, if your line of reasoning were to hold up, we'd all be entitled to a free copy of the latest Windows or Mac software just by sending in our Win95 or OS9 discs, so GO FOR IT!!! Quote
+DesertDweller Posted December 13, 2007 Posted December 13, 2007 That is true. Here are the two welcome screens I get. No mention of MediaTek. Hmmmm, I get all of the screen on the left and only the first two lines of the screen on the right. My software comes up: Software Version 2.40 GPS SW Version 2.40 I talked to Garmin tech support the other day, while we were talking I asked about the two versions. The first is basically the Operating System (OS) and the second is the GPS Receiver software. JohnTee Hello all. FWIW, I just got my Vista HCx from REI earlier this month. My welcome screen also contains all of the text shown on the left side image and the first two lines of the right hand image, i.e., no mention of MediaTek. Also, my Software Version is 2.40, but my GPS SW Version is still 2.30. So, I am wondering if there is any connection between the omission of the MediaTek copyright info and the GPS SW Version 2.30 (I did try upgrading it with WebUpdater). All I know is if Garmin did dump a unit with a known issue on the market only to fix it for later buyers, but not earlier ones, I will be very disappointed with what I have always considered a company on the up and up and return my unit to REI and stick with my plain ole Foretrex 101 that I bought years ago. I might start looking at Magellan mapping units as well. DD Quote
Rhialto Posted December 13, 2007 Posted December 13, 2007 They may also hide as long as they can some information... it's only another possibility in the equation. Quote
+DesertDweller Posted December 13, 2007 Posted December 13, 2007 That is true. Here are the two welcome screens I get. No mention of MediaTek. Hmmmm, I get all of the screen on the left and only the first two lines of the screen on the right. My software comes up: Software Version 2.40 GPS SW Version 2.40 I talked to Garmin tech support the other day, while we were talking I asked about the two versions. The first is basically the Operating System (OS) and the second is the GPS Receiver software. JohnTee Hello all. FWIW, I just got my Vista HCx from REI earlier this month. My welcome screen also contains all of the text shown on the left side image and the first two lines of the right hand image, i.e., no mention of MediaTek. Also, my Software Version is 2.40, but my GPS SW Version is still 2.30. So, I am wondering if there is any connection between the omission of the MediaTek copyright info and the GPS SW Version 2.30 (I did try upgrading it with WebUpdater). All I know is if Garmin did dump a unit with a known issue on the market only to fix it for later buyers, but not earlier ones, I will be very disappointed with what I have always considered a company on the up and up and return my unit to REI and stick with my plain ole Foretrex 101 that I bought years ago. I might start looking at Magellan mapping units as well. DD Some additional info: When I use the WebUpdater to "reinstall the same version of the upgrade," the WebUpdater identifies my unit with the following info: "Device Name: MTK GPS Receiver" So, even without the MTK copyright info on the welcome screen, it appears that there still might be the MTK chip in the unit. It would be interesting to see if those of you who have both software versions of 2.40 get the same result when using the WebUpdater reinstall function. DD Quote
fujitsu Posted December 13, 2007 Author Posted December 13, 2007 Hi Thanks DesertDweller. This is a good additional information. regards AA Quote
FiveNines Posted December 13, 2007 Posted December 13, 2007 Some additional info: When I use the WebUpdater to "reinstall the same version of the upgrade," the WebUpdater identifies my unit with the following info: "Device Name: MTK GPS Receiver" So, even without the MTK copyright info on the welcome screen, it appears that there still might be the MTK chip in the unit. It would be interesting to see if those of you who have both software versions of 2.40 get the same result when using the WebUpdater reinstall function. DD You mean this screen? As you can see above no mention of MTK on mine. The "Device Name" field is blank. Quote
jmundinger Posted December 13, 2007 Posted December 13, 2007 I seriously doubt that line of reasoning would hold up with Garmin or in a court of law. One man's "correction of a flaw" is another man's "ongoing product improvement cycle" or somesuch. If we were talking about just a software issue, I'd agree with you. However, if it took a hardware issue to correct the problem - a problem that prevents the unit from performing as described in the operating manual that came with the device - I think Garmin would be on shakier ground. That would especially be the case if the correction were made while existing units were still under warranty. Quote
jmundinger Posted December 13, 2007 Posted December 13, 2007 I'd be very curious to know from those who have the Vista HCX with the newer chipset, whether the trip computer (speedometer and odometer) function correctly on those units. Quote
+shunra Posted December 13, 2007 Posted December 13, 2007 I'd be very curious to know from those who have the Vista HCX with the newer chipset, whether the trip computer (speedometer and odometer) function correctly on those units. I got mine a few weeks ago. Not sure what my firmware version is - where do I see that? To answer your question: I am not aware of any odometer problem. However, I did notice on the trip computer screen that when I am move below a certain threshold speed (2 miles/hour?), the software doesn't acknowledge this as movement. The result is that my average speed is still correct, and the distance is still correct, but my average moving speed ends up being too high, because the full distance covered is not divided by the time I moved, but by the time I moved at an above-threshold speed. I imagine that if the threshold would be much lower than that, I would be considered to be running around ground zero when I am actually standing still, when reception is spotty and coordinates are jumping. If they come up with a solution, it must be something more complex than a mere lowering or elimination of that threshold. Rather, the algorithm should include the direction factor, and deduce that if I appear to be running very short distances around the same point, even at high speed, I am probably standing still, whereas, if I appear to be making tiny movements in a consistent direction, I am probably actually moving into that direction. But when reception is spotty, my consistent movement might look like zigzagging and going back and forth along a certain vector. Quote
jmundinger Posted December 14, 2007 Posted December 14, 2007 I got mine a few weeks ago. Not sure what my firmware version is - where do I see that? To answer your question: I am not aware of any odometer problem. Shunra - thanks for your reply. Your post described the problem that many of us have experienced with the trip computer. It also includes a problem with the odometer - on of the functions on the trip computer page - because when the unit is not registering the rate of travel, it also is not registering distance traveled (although it is still noting the change in your location on the track log). To find the version of the software that you are running, go to the main menu and select setup. On the setup menu, select system. On that page, push the menu button (lower button on the left side as you are looking at the unit). On the popup menu, use the rocker key to scroll down to Software Version and then push enter. The next popup will display the Software Version (should read 2.40) and the GPS SW Version. If you have the older model, that number will probably be 2.30. If you have the newer version, that number will be 2.40. If you have GPS SW Version 2.40, it suggests that the trip computer issue has not been resolved with the new chipset. By the way, if the numbers that you have differ from those (lower), it means you have an older model and have not updated the software to the current version - which you can do by running WebUpdater. Quote
Ferreter5 Posted December 14, 2007 Posted December 14, 2007 Well now this topic has me very interested. I bought a new Vista HCx a few weeks ago. Software Version 2.40 GPS Software Version 2.30 I downloaded the EXE of the 2.40 software from Garmin's web site and applied it to the receiver, but it didn't seem to do anything. The version numbers stayed the same. Quote
+DesertDweller Posted December 14, 2007 Posted December 14, 2007 You mean this screen? As you can see above no mention of MTK on mine. The "Device Name" field is blank. Yep, that's the screen. Do you have 2.40 for both software versions? DD Quote
+hogrod Posted December 14, 2007 Posted December 14, 2007 To update both the unit software and the chipset make sure you are running through the webupdater twice. select check for aditional updates the second time through should show you any chipset updates.... Quote
FiveNines Posted December 14, 2007 Posted December 14, 2007 Do you have 2.40 for both software versions? DD No. 2.40 for Software, 2.30 for GPS SW. Quote
+DesertDweller Posted December 14, 2007 Posted December 14, 2007 To update both the unit software and the chipset make sure you are running through the webupdater twice. select check for aditional updates the second time through should show you any chipset updates.... Yep, I have been doing that and did it again just before posting this reply. I am still getting the GPS Software version as 2.30. But, now like FiveNines, my device name field is blank as shown in his image. Weird. DD Quote
picrthis Posted December 14, 2007 Posted December 14, 2007 That is true. Here are the two welcome screens I get. No mention of MediaTek. Hmmmm, I get all of the screen on the left and only the first two lines of the screen on the right. My software comes up: Software Version 2.40 GPS SW Version 2.40 I talked to Garmin tech support the other day, while we were talking I asked about the two versions. The first is basically the Operating System (OS) and the second is the GPS Receiver software. JohnTee That is true. Here are the two welcome screens I get. No mention of MediaTek. Hmmmm, I get all of the screen on the left and only the first two lines of the screen on the right. My software comes up: Software Version 2.40 GPS SW Version 2.40 I talked to Garmin tech support the other day, while we were talking I asked about the two versions. The first is basically the Operating System (OS) and the second is the GPS Receiver software. JohnTee Hello I just bought my unit 2 weeks ago and I have Software v 2.40 & GPS 2.30, can you please tell us the first 6 digits of your serial number off of the box it came in? I'm going to take my unit back & want to make sure I get the correct serial number range for GPS 2.40 Thanks Quote
gallet Posted December 14, 2007 Posted December 14, 2007 I'd be very curious to know from those who have the Vista HCX with the newer chipset, whether the trip computer (speedometer and odometer) function correctly on those units. I haven't done any extensive testing but the new one still does not register slow speeds. http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=179457 Quote
extremecarver Posted December 14, 2007 Posted December 14, 2007 (edited) I don't think there is a new chipset. I had a one of the first Vista HCx in July (2.20 Firmware and 2.10 Chipset Software I believe). Mediatek was shown on startup with the old firmwares. Once upgraded to 2.40 I see no more mention of Mediatek. Anyone with an "old" gps unit that is able to have Firmware 2.40 still showing Mediatek on startup? Mine doesn't (anymore). -- End of July several Units shipped with 2.30 Firmware - while it wasn't yet available with the webupdater. Common thing I believe. It's like units shipping with newer maps while it still takes 2-3 month till they can be bought in shops witout gps. Edited December 14, 2007 by extremecarver Quote
freeday Posted December 14, 2007 Posted December 14, 2007 (edited) I am the owner of this pic - the original is located here: http://www.naviboard.de/vb/showthread.php?...light=vergleich and with the new firmware SW/GPS SW i also have the new screens you mentioned. So don't worry - seems to be ok. Beside: At this time the odometer-bug still exists Edited December 14, 2007 by freeday Quote
jmundinger Posted December 14, 2007 Posted December 14, 2007 I haven't done any extensive testing but the new one still does not register slow speeds. Thanks for sharing that. If that is the case, then my rationale for claiming a defect in the earlier versions (relative to the later versions) would not apply. Quote
fujitsu Posted December 14, 2007 Author Posted December 14, 2007 Hi, So it seems that it's a kind of mistake. However I will put here a Garmin's answer to my question about new chipset Hi there! Thank you for your answer. Are you telling me that my Etrex Legend Hcx/ Vista HCx could has a different chipset than the newer models that are been selling now? Why is that? The other chipset does not work well? Well I am not very pleased with that, unless I could return mine. Have the two chipset the same behaviour? Regards From a sad costumer António garmins' answer Dear Antonio Jorge de Oliveira Aleixo, Thank you for contacting Garmin International. There may be units with a different chipset due to the software they may be running however the different chipset has no benifits over the other. You are not losing any features or functions by running the older chipset. With Best Regards, Shawn V Product Support Specialist 2nd Shift Outdoor/Fitness Team Garmin International 913-397-8200 800-800-1020 913-397-8282 (fax) Att: Shawn V www.garmin.com May be garmin doesn't understand my question. But now I would like to know if there is or there isn't some Etrex Vista HCx with CHIPSET SW VERSION = 2.40 (I am talking about GPS SW version, not Software Version. They are different things.) . If so could anyone update from GPS SW Version 2.30 to 2.40? Regards AA Quote
SiliconFiend Posted December 14, 2007 Posted December 14, 2007 Everyone's getting in a tizzy about a possible new chipset which Garmin was "holding out on us". That's not likely the case. What's more likely is that the chipset vendor (MediaTek?) has made a revision for some reason--fix a bug, replace an obsoleted component, whatever--and the associated firmware had to change to support the new revision. I'm a product engineer--this kind of stuff happens all the time. It's annoying busywork, but that's a big reason I have a job. I can't believe people are complaining that there is a new revision so soon. Would you have felt better if they waited for a year? Garmin has a reputation to uphold. It's highly unlikely they would release a product with known major bugs. I will grant that it's possible they judged the speed threshold cutout to be minor or an annoyance (that's how I view it), but I'm guessing they just missed it in their testing. I hate to find out about bugs from our customers--I take it personally because it's something I missed! But at some point, you have to cut off development and release the product or you'd never sell anything. The reality is, the Vista HCx is as close to bug-free as I've seen in a consumer device. Quote
freeday Posted December 14, 2007 Posted December 14, 2007 ... The reality is, the Vista HCx is as close to bug-free as I've seen in a consumer device. yes, that's true - it works fine - i only know the odometer bug But on my wishlist there are still some things i am missing for years: writing and reading tracks and waypoints from µSD without a PC ................... Quote
John E Cache Posted December 15, 2007 Posted December 15, 2007 (edited) The first screen is for the software copyrights and the second screen is for the map copyrights. Garmin could be writing the MTK chip software themselves, now. The first two lines of the map copyrights are for the base map and lines are added when you load different maps. The NAVTEQ copyright is what you get after you load US detail maps. Has anyone considered that the odometer may be a HW limitation? Maybe the MTK chips have no speedometer and can only tell if you are moving when the distance between points is greater the maximum possible random error .ie you are moving fast. The more expensive chips may have a Doppler shift detector for the speed to tell you are moving, Edited December 15, 2007 by John E Cache Quote
+DesertDweller Posted December 15, 2007 Posted December 15, 2007 ... The reality is, the Vista HCx is as close to bug-free as I've seen in a consumer device. yes, that's true - it works fine - i only know the odometer bug But on my wishlist there are still some things i am missing for years: writing and reading tracks and waypoints from µSD without a PC ................... Well, unfortunately, I MAY have discovered another bug. While driving on the freeway last night, I noticed that the Vista HCx was constantly understating my car's speed by about 4-5 MPH. I remember my Foretrex 101 being nearly on the money with the speed in my car. So, later today I will have both units with me while on the highway and see what is what. IF the Vista does have a speedometer problem, I wonder if it could be related to the low speed issue we have experienced. I will post the results of my Foretrex/Vista comparison later today or tomorrow. DD Quote
+Hynr Posted December 15, 2007 Posted December 15, 2007 While driving on the freeway last night, I noticed that the Vista HCx was constantly understating my car's speed by about 4-5 MPH. I would be more inclined to think that your tire inflation has changed. Maybe you need to check your tires for over- or under-inflation. Quote
jmundinger Posted December 15, 2007 Posted December 15, 2007 Well, unfortunately, I MAY have discovered another bug. While driving on the freeway last night, I noticed that the Vista HCx was constantly understating my car's speed by about 4-5 MPH. I'd be more inclined to trust the gps than your vehicle's speedometer. I have an eTrex, a Legend C and a Vista HCX. The discrepancy between the speedomoter and the GPSr, at highway speed, varies between vehicles, but is pretty much the same, regardless of which unit I have in the vehicle. Quote
BuckyBuck Posted December 15, 2007 Posted December 15, 2007 Garmin has a reputation to uphold. It's highly unlikely they would release a product with known major bugs. I will grant that it's possible they judged the speed threshold cutout to be minor or an annoyance (that's how I view it), but I'm guessing they just missed it in their testing. Maybe they do their field testing now down at their Cayman Island headquarters, rather than some location that more closely duplicates the up and down conditions in which most people use a unit marketed as an "on the trail" GPS. Call me old fashioned, but I still think a unit designed for foot travel should be able to accurately measure walking speeds and distances. My old GPS V did a much better job of this than the HCx does. Quote
John E Cache Posted December 15, 2007 Posted December 15, 2007 ... The reality is, the Vista HCx is as close to bug-free as I've seen in a consumer device. yes, that's true - it works fine - i only know the odometer bug But on my wishlist there are still some things i am missing for years: writing and reading tracks and waypoints from µSD without a PC ................... Well, unfortunately, I MAY have discovered another bug. While driving on the freeway last night, I noticed that the Vista HCx was constantly understating my car's speed by about 4-5 MPH. I remember my Foretrex 101 being nearly on the money with the speed in my car. So, later today I will have both units with me while on the highway and see what is what. IF the Vista does have a speedometer problem, I wonder if it could be related to the low speed issue we have experienced. I will post the results of my Foretrex/Vista comparison later today or tomorrow. DD I hope you are not taking my speedometer reference literally. I was just giving a possible HW reason for the issue. I have no clue why the odometer is off. Speed can be calculated from distance over time. I have been curious for a long time how the newer GPS's know I am stopped when the track shows I am wandering. My ancient Gatmin never showed 0 speed. I made a guess they must have added some speedometer measurement independent of position measurement. Quote
+Alan2 Posted December 15, 2007 Posted December 15, 2007 (edited) I recently bought the Vista HCx from REI. I'm confused about the previous posts. When I check my version it says Software Version 2.40 GPS SW Version 2.30 UNIT ID 3373502987. What difficulties should I expect with it? Should I update anything and how? By the way, I also have a old Vista. It notoriously made tracks 50% longer than you walked. There seemed to be the added distance effect of the coordinmates constantly changing due to normal reception but the algorithm just considered that you actually moved those distance when you didn't. The new Vista HCx seems to eliminate that in the total distance calculations and the bread crumb trail on the maps is cleaned of those "pertabations". One other difference is the old Vista magnetic compass seems to work better. The new one tends to drift back and forth and the old one stay pretty steady. That's disappointing. Edited December 15, 2007 by Alan2 Quote
+The Old Ploughman Posted December 15, 2007 Posted December 15, 2007 Well, unfortunately, I MAY have discovered another bug. While driving on the freeway last night, I noticed that the Vista HCx was constantly understating my car's speed by about 4-5 MPH. I remember my Foretrex 101 being nearly on the money with the speed in my car. So, later today I will have both units with me while on the highway and see what is what. IF the Vista does have a speedometer problem, I wonder if it could be related to the low speed issue we have experienced. I will post the results of my Foretrex/Vista comparison later today or tomorrow. DD I've spotted the same problem (similar discrepancy too) with my Vista HCx, bought about a month ago. I wondered about the accuracy of my car's speedo and tyre pressures and such but haven't had the opportunity to check yet. Makes using it as a speed trap warning a bit silly <g> chris Quote
+Hynr Posted December 15, 2007 Posted December 15, 2007 Makes using it as a speed trap warning a bit silly or absolutely essential (if it is your vehicle's speedometer that is wrong). One citation saved could well pay for the GPSr especially if its not your first... Quote
+DesertDweller Posted December 16, 2007 Posted December 16, 2007 Well, my Foretrex 101 and the Vista HCx agreed (within 1 mph or less of each other) on the speed when I took them both on the road yesterday. So, must be either my tire inflation or the car's speedometer. So, at least it is not a bug in the GPSr! Quote
+trooperdjb Posted December 16, 2007 Posted December 16, 2007 I've checked at highway speeds with both my 60CSx and Vista HCx as well as timing against measured miles and all agree within 0.1 MPH at 70 MPH. My speedomoter on the other hand reads 2-4 MPH slow with the 2 being at about 40 and the 4 at 70. There was an earlier thread that discussed this with the short story being that most auto manufacturers intentionally have the speedometer read faster than you're actually going most likely to avoid complaints and law suits due to tickets when you were just a little over. Quote
Rhialto Posted December 17, 2007 Posted December 17, 2007 I hope you all wrote an email to Garmin with a link to this thread here. Let's hope more that one Garmin employee will read this and maybe they will send someone to reply a final answer to all this. Quote
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