Fradulant Find

[+Joe C]

Hi; How do I contact a local administrator directly regarding a 'find' for a cache that was removed and archived 4 years ago?

 

Joe C.

[+briansnat]

If it's your cache you can delete the log yourself. If it's someone else's cache it's basically between that cache owner and the person who logged it.

[+JohnTee]

A couple of thoughts . . .

 

Geocaching is a lot like playing the card game Solitaire. Some people play the game the way the cards are dealt and lose gracefully. Some people re-shuffle the remainder of a bad hand so they can continue playing. Some geocachers are by the book and have actually signed the log for a cache. Some people will 'arm-chair' geocache and log finds on caches they have never seen. Either way, the only person they are really cheating is themselves. As mentioned, if you are the cache owner, you can delete the log. If not, don't lose any sleep over it.

 

Hmmmm, I was thinking that, where you used to be able to log an archived cache, that it wasn't possible anymore . . .

 

I had a guy that logged some of my caches with something like, "A quick and easy find on my way to (Big City) from (home city). Thanks for the cache." Well, the quick and easy find is a three and a half mile hike, up and down some pretty rugged hills. Just to get to the parking area is a good 20-30 minute drive from anywhere, with a minimum one and a half hour hike, round-trip. Aint' no 'quick and easy' about it. I left his log until the next time I was deer hunting out there. Checked the log in the cache and, sure enough, his entry was not in there. Nor was it for another cache I have in that area. I deleted every log he made on ANY of my caches. Come to think of it, he must have gotten bored with that silly game, as I've not seen any more finds from him.

 

On the other hand . . .

 

I placed a cache along a trail in one of Missouri's Department of Conservation areas. Turns out there used to be a cache on that same trail, with a similar name, that was archived about a year before I got started. I was out benchmarking in the same area and ran across the original cache. It was in a tupperware container and had obviously been chewed open by animals. The contents were strewn about. Including the log and a disposable camera in a relatively intact zip-loc bag, that had been in the cache. I picked everything up and contacted the previous owner to see if he wanted any of it and never heard back from him about it. I eventually threw some stuff away, put some in new caches and had the film developed. Also scanned the pictures, and posted them with a log from one of those caches. Oh, and I logged a find on that cache. Because I DID find that cache!

 

I've done the same with one other archived cache. Contacted the owner, who had moved, and found out he had never picked up the old cache after some DNF's. I went out and searched for, and found it. The reason I did that one was, I was familiar with the area and wanted to replace a cache out there. Turns out his hide was not in a location I would have chosen, and anything closer to a popular swimming hole along a creek was liable to be washed away or found. No new cache, but I did log that one too.

 

JohnTee

[Keystone]

A "local administrator" is better known in the terminology of the website as a "volunteer cache reviewer." I'm one of the volunteers for Pennsylvania.

 

Were you to write to me about a log dispute, I would write back (eventually) and say that it's something to be settled between the cache logger and the cache owner. Reviewers are not the log police.

 

There is an exception for logs or logging practices which violate the website Terms of Use. Complaints about TOS violations should be sent to Groundspeak at the contact @ geocaching.com e-mail address (NOT to a volunteer cache reviewer). Examples would include harrassment, disclosure of personal information, obscenity, etc. Reviewers can deal with less serious problems (such as an isolated instance of potty language, disclosure of a trackable's secret code number in a log, etc.).

Edited December 8, 2007 by Keystone

[+briansnat]

Some geocachers are by the book and have actually signed the log for a cache. Some people will 'arm-chair' geocache and log finds on caches they have never seen. Either way, the only person they are really cheating is themselves. As mentioned, if you are the cache owner, you can delete the log. If not, don't lose any sleep over it.

 

If our actions occurred in a vacuum then I'd agree with you, but they don't. Phony logs on caches can and have affected others. Lately it has been a thing among European cachers (especially German) to log virtual caches without visiting them. When Groundspeak gets wind of a cache that is being abuse like this it is archived, which deprives the local community of the cache. Essentially their arm chair finds have ruined things for others.

 

Also, by logging a find you are in essence telling the community that the cache is there. Last year my wife and I wasted our time hunting a cache that had recent finds. We later found out that the finds were bogus and the cache had been missing for some time. We wasted our gas and an hour of our time on this thing because some people got their jollies logging phony finds.

 

I know of another geocacher who was lured into a 100 mile round trip to find a cache that was thought missing, when someone logged a find. I'm sure he thought it was hilarious.

 

The phony finds can also delay needed maintenance. I had a cache that had a couple of DNFs. I was about to head out to check up on it when someone logged a find. It turned out that the find was bogus. Luckily something not quite right the log led me to question it, but had I not, I would have put off maintenance and other geocachers could have wasted their time looking for it, all because someone lied about a find.

 

If people want to cheat at solitaire, no skin off my back, but fake finds can affect me.

[+HaLiJuSaPa]

Some geocachers are by the book and have actually signed the log for a cache. Some people will 'arm-chair' geocache and log finds on caches they have never seen. Either way, the only person they are really cheating is themselves. As mentioned, if you are the cache owner, you can delete the log. If not, don't lose any sleep over it.

 

If our actions occurred in a vacuum then I'd agree with you, but they don't. Phony logs on caches can and have affected others. Lately it has been a thing among European cachers (especially German) to log virtual caches without visiting them. When Groundspeak gets wind of a cache that is being abuse like this it is archived, which deprives the local community of the cache. Essentially their arm chair finds have ruined things for others.

 

Also, by logging a find you are in essence telling the community that the cache is there. Last year my wife and I wasted our time hunting a cache that had recent finds. We later found out that the finds were bogus and the cache had been missing for some time. We wasted our gas and an hour of our time on this thing because some people got their jollies logging phony finds.

 

I know of another geocacher who was lured into a 100 mile round trip to find a cache that was thought missing, when someone logged a find. I'm sure he thought it was hilarious.

 

The phony finds can also delay needed maintenance. I had a cache that had a couple of DNFs. I was about to head out to check up on it when someone logged a find. It turned out that the find was bogus. Luckily something not quite right the log led me to question it, but had I not, I would have put off maintenance and other geocachers could have wasted their time looking for it, all because someone lied about a find.

 

If people want to cheat at solitaire, no skin off my back, but fake finds can affect me.

 

I mostly agree with you, but as far as I know Groundspeak is not actually archiving the virtuals with all those German armchair logs per se. What it appears they've started to do is something equivalent to the way seat belt laws are in some states, where you only get the ticket if found doing this while stopped for another unrelated violation. What Groundspeak seems to have begun to do with some of these kinds of caches is have the reviewer archive them on the spot if he/she finds some other valid reason, one that normally would not be applied so quickly to archive most other caches. The most common way they have closed these down is if they find the cache owner has not been active on the gc.com site for a month or more and actually use that reason to close a heavily abused "armchair" virtual.

[+Joe C]

I may have found a bug in the system. Because the cache is archived, the logged find does not show up in the cache's web page. I have no place to delete it. Try it with your own archived caches.

 

It's really no skin off of my nose what this guy does.. In fairness to other cachers, I wanted to get to the bottom of it. I'll contact the reviewer off forum.

 

Joe C

[+Cardinal Red]

I may have found a bug in the system. Because the cache is archived, the logged find does not show up in the cache's web page. I have no place to delete it. Try it with your own archived caches.....

 

That can't be right. An archived cache is not as easy to find on the system as an active cache, by design. If you own the archived cache though, it's very easy to open the cache page from your profile. And all the logs will be there. Unless the page has been locked by an administrator, logs can be added or deleted. Can you expand on "Because the cache is archived, the logged find does not show up in the cache's web page". If that is correct, it is not normal.

 

Normal would be, the log is there with this link at the bottom:

[view this log on a separate page]

 

That link would show the log with these two options available:

Delete Log .......... Permanently Encrypt

[Keystone]

I may have found a bug in the system. Because the cache is archived, the logged find does not show up in the cache's web page. I have no place to delete it. Try it with your own archived caches.

 

It's really no skin off of my nose what this guy does.. In fairness to other cachers, I wanted to get to the bottom of it. I'll contact the reviewer off forum.

 

Joe C

Sorry to burst your bubble about the "fradulant" conduct, but here's why you cannot see the log for which you received a notification: the log owner realized that they made a mistake and logged the wrong cache. The geocacher, who has a fine reputation, deleted their own mistaken find. I've made the same mistake myself a few times over the course of 3300 finds and DNF's.

 

Once again, reviewers are NOT the log police. Had the log remained on your cache page, then as the owner, you could have deleted it.

 

There's nothing to see here, move along.

[+Joe C]

Good! That's why we let cooler heads prevail! Sorry for the fuss.

 

B.T.W. Happy Holidays to All.

 

... back to lurking.

Joe C

[+Peconic Bay Sailors]

Text Deleted by PBS...

Gotta read all the comments before posting...

Edited December 10, 2007 by Peconic Bay Sailors

[+3bunts]

After doing some maintenance on a few of my caches, I have found that there are some who like to add caches to their numbers that they have not found. That's not caching, it's cheating. I don't see the fun in logging caches as finds that you don't actually find. I leave it alone. Who really cares if they are "quick finders"? True it can make for a bad cache experience if someome says they found it when it's actually missing, but I guess that's why we need to keep a good eye out on our caches. After all this is just a game.

[+JATurtle]

About six months ago, there is a cache near me that was made temporarily unavailable b the local administrator. This cache was popular, and even though it was unavailable, people kept on logging finds. Eventually, the cache Owner cleared up the issue and the cache was reactivated.

 

One time I deleted a log where the finder said he found where it should have been, but assume the cache had been muggled. I checked the cache, found it and deleted the log. The finder went back and found the cache, and re-logged it. Based on this log I went back to check the cache and it was missing. A few months ago this same cacher confronted me at an event. He didn’t like my actions.

 

The other day I received an email from a cacher who had 115 cache finds per day per year.

 

It takes all types.

[+HaLiJuSaPa]

After doing some maintenance on a few of my caches, I have found that there are some who like to add caches to their numbers that they have not found. That's not caching, it's cheating. I don't see the fun in logging caches as finds that you don't actually find. I leave it alone. Who really cares if they are "quick finders"? True it can make for a bad cache experience if someome says they found it when it's actually missing, but I guess that's why we need to keep a good eye out on our caches. After all this is just a game.

 

If it's a "bring your own pen" micro, it's possible the poster forgot to bring a pen or some other reason. We just found such a cache that my brother in-law found last week and did an online log. We noticed he didn't log it on the actual cache log. He was in a hurry and forgot a pen and forgot to note this in his online post. We simply signed for him, won't go into details but I know he actually found it.

 

The other day I received an email from a cacher who had 115 cache finds per day per year.

 

It takes all types.

 

Really, that is something like almost 40,000 finds/year! I thought the top 2 or 3 people in the entire game were somewhere in the 20-30K finds TOTAL.

Edited January 6, 2008 by HaLiJuSaPa

[+JATurtle]

 

The other day I received an email from a cacher who had 115 cache finds per day per year.

 

It takes all types.

 

Really, that is something like almost 40,000 finds/year! I thought the top 2 or 3 people in the entire game were somewhere in the 20-30K finds TOTAL.

 

It seems impossible to me. On the other hand, I have been known to have a problem with large numbers.

[+fox-and-the-hound]

Something to keep in mind as well is that some of us are caching "teams" instead of individual cachers. When a team breaks up for any number of reasons or a young cacher breaks away from a family team, they will often go back and re-log all of their old finds under their new id even though some of those caches are no longer active. Make sure to ask before tossing all their logs. You might just ruin someone's day who really HAS found all those caches!

Edited January 7, 2008 by fox-and-the-hound

[+whistler & co.]

Something to keep in mind as well is that some of us are caching "teams" instead of individual cachers. When a team breaks up for any number of reasons or a young cacher breaks away from a family team, they will often go back and re-log all of their old finds under their new id even though some of those caches are no longer active. Make sure to ask before tossing all their logs. You might just ruin someone's day who really HAS found all those caches!

 

Good point...we created our kids' accounts over a year after we started caching, but I did go back and log all of the caches they had helped to find, even if they were archived.

[+Team Rampant Lion]

Something to keep in mind as well is that some of us are caching "teams" instead of individual cachers. When a team breaks up for any number of reasons or a young cacher breaks away from a family team, they will often go back and re-log all of their old finds under their new id even though some of those caches are no longer active. Make sure to ask before tossing all their logs. You might just ruin someone's day who really HAS found all those caches!

 

Yes, my "team" has dwindled to me and Bailey (my dog). My spin offs now all have identities of their own but we have not gone back to re-log caches they found although I would consider it fair if they did. Now, if Bailey leaves and tries to log her own finds, then I will protest. She does nothing but sit on the ground and watch me do all the work.

[+rstefano52]

I'm going to add this little story here because I think it fits the topic. Yesterday afternoon (1/9), I received a notification of some new caches up around the area where I work (Woodcliff Lake). Since I have yet to get an FTF, I thought I would try even though I didn't have my GPS with me. I did some research on line using Google Maps and decided to go after one called The Rhodo Ranger (GC18BX5). It looked easy enough and was very close by so I figured I didn't have anything to lose. Well, when I got to the cache location, I discovered that it was on a residential street. That seemed okay since the CO claimed that he had permission to place the cache at its location. Anyway, as I soon discovered, there were TWO possible locations for the cache and of course, I selected the wrong one to begin my search. After about 5 minutes of trying to be very stealthy, I decided to give up only to look up the street and see the second possible location. I moved my car up the street and again after about 5 minutes, I discovered the cache. At this point, I was becoming more and more nervous because there were quite a few muggles out in the neighborhood along with a steady stream of cars traveling up and down the street. I grabbed the cache and went back to my car to sign the log. Alas, I was NOT the first to find, however, while signing the log - I entered the date, and a short note indicating that I was disappointed that I was only STF and then placed the log back in the bag. I very quickly replaced the cache and drove off. It wasn't until I was about a mile away that I realized that I forgot to enter my geocaching name (rstefano52)! I had NEVER done that since I started caching! I couldn't go back at that point because I knew that any further delay would get me embroiled in traffic on the parkway so I decided to go home and write the CO a note for permission to claim the find with the understanding that I would go back in the next few days to complete the entry. As of the writing of this note, I still have not heard back from the CO but I really don't feel that it is right for me to claim the find until I completed the proper log entry in the cache. After all - without the ID - anyone can claim that find. In the meantime, I will plan on going back to the cache location to enter the ID so that I can "sleep better at night"! I just hope that I can do this soon because with this find, I am only 5 away from reaching 300 cache finds. I hope you enjoyed the story and I would appreciate any comments on this situation.

[+briansnat]

I'm going to add this little story here because I think it fits the topic. Yesterday afternoon (1/9), I received a notification of some new caches up around the area where I work (Woodcliff Lake). Since I have yet to get an FTF, I thought I would try even though I didn't have my GPS with me. I did some research on line using Google Maps and decided to go after one called The Rhodo Ranger (GC18BX5). It looked easy enough and was very close by so I figured I didn't have anything to lose. Well, when I got to the cache location, I discovered that it was on a residential street. That seemed okay since the CO claimed that he had permission to place the cache at its location. Anyway, as I soon discovered, there were TWO possible locations for the cache and of course, I selected the wrong one to begin my search. After about 5 minutes of trying to be very stealthy, I decided to give up only to look up the street and see the second possible location. I moved my car up the street and again after about 5 minutes, I discovered the cache. At this point, I was becoming more and more nervous because there were quite a few muggles out in the neighborhood along with a steady stream of cars traveling up and down the street. I grabbed the cache and went back to my car to sign the log. Alas, I was NOT the first to find, however, while signing the log - I entered the date, and a short note indicating that I was disappointed that I was only STF and then placed the log back in the bag. I very quickly replaced the cache and drove off. It wasn't until I was about a mile away that I realized that I forgot to enter my geocaching name (rstefano52)! I had NEVER done that since I started caching! I couldn't go back at that point because I knew that any further delay would get me embroiled in traffic on the parkway so I decided to go home and write the CO a note for permission to claim the find with the understanding that I would go back in the next few days to complete the entry. As of the writing of this note, I still have not heard back from the CO but I really don't feel that it is right for me to claim the find until I completed the proper log entry in the cache. After all - without the ID - anyone can claim that find. In the meantime, I will plan on going back to the cache location to enter the ID so that I can "sleep better at night"! I just hope that I can do this soon because with this find, I am only 5 away from reaching 300 cache finds. I hope you enjoyed the story and I would appreciate any comments on this situation.

 

I'd log the find and go back at my leisure to re-sign the log.

[+rstefano52]

I'm going to add this little story here because I think it fits the topic. Yesterday afternoon (1/9), I received a notification of some new caches up around the area where I work (Woodcliff Lake). Since I have yet to get an FTF, I thought I would try even though I didn't have my GPS with me. I did some research on line using Google Maps and decided to go after one called The Rhodo Ranger (GC18BX5). It looked easy enough and was very close by so I figured I didn't have anything to lose. Well, when I got to the cache location, I discovered that it was on a residential street. That seemed okay since the CO claimed that he had permission to place the cache at its location. Anyway, as I soon discovered, there were TWO possible locations for the cache and of course, I selected the wrong one to begin my search. After about 5 minutes of trying to be very stealthy, I decided to give up only to look up the street and see the second possible location. I moved my car up the street and again after about 5 minutes, I discovered the cache. At this point, I was becoming more and more nervous because there were quite a few muggles out in the neighborhood along with a steady stream of cars traveling up and down the street. I grabbed the cache and went back to my car to sign the log. Alas, I was NOT the first to find, however, while signing the log - I entered the date, and a short note indicating that I was disappointed that I was only STF and then placed the log back in the bag. I very quickly replaced the cache and drove off. It wasn't until I was about a mile away that I realized that I forgot to enter my geocaching name (rstefano52)! I had NEVER done that since I started caching! I couldn't go back at that point because I knew that any further delay would get me embroiled in traffic on the parkway so I decided to go home and write the CO a note for permission to claim the find with the understanding that I would go back in the next few days to complete the entry. As of the writing of this note, I still have not heard back from the CO but I really don't feel that it is right for me to claim the find until I completed the proper log entry in the cache. After all - without the ID - anyone can claim that find. In the meantime, I will plan on going back to the cache location to enter the ID so that I can "sleep better at night"! I just hope that I can do this soon because with this find, I am only 5 away from reaching 300 cache finds. I hope you enjoyed the story and I would appreciate any comments on this situation.

 

I'd log the find and go back at my leisure to re-sign the log.

 

I can't say that I went out of my way but I tried going back during my lunch time today - I was able to accomplish the task in about 15 minutes - including the drive time - so now I can rest in peace. By the way, the CO never did reply - I suppose he's very busy! Thanks for the reply.

[+HaLiJuSaPa]

I'm going to add this little story here because I think it fits the topic. Yesterday afternoon (1/9), I received a notification of some new caches up around the area where I work (Woodcliff Lake). Since I have yet to get an FTF, I thought I would try even though I didn't have my GPS with me. I did some research on line using Google Maps and decided to go after one called The Rhodo Ranger (GC18BX5). It looked easy enough and was very close by so I figured I didn't have anything to lose. Well, when I got to the cache location, I discovered that it was on a residential street. That seemed okay since the CO claimed that he had permission to place the cache at its location. Anyway, as I soon discovered, there were TWO possible locations for the cache and of course, I selected the wrong one to begin my search. After about 5 minutes of trying to be very stealthy, I decided to give up only to look up the street and see the second possible location. I moved my car up the street and again after about 5 minutes, I discovered the cache. At this point, I was becoming more and more nervous because there were quite a few muggles out in the neighborhood along with a steady stream of cars traveling up and down the street. I grabbed the cache and went back to my car to sign the log. Alas, I was NOT the first to find, however, while signing the log - I entered the date, and a short note indicating that I was disappointed that I was only STF and then placed the log back in the bag. I very quickly replaced the cache and drove off. It wasn't until I was about a mile away that I realized that I forgot to enter my geocaching name (rstefano52)! I had NEVER done that since I started caching! I couldn't go back at that point because I knew that any further delay would get me embroiled in traffic on the parkway so I decided to go home and write the CO a note for permission to claim the find with the understanding that I would go back in the next few days to complete the entry. As of the writing of this note, I still have not heard back from the CO but I really don't feel that it is right for me to claim the find until I completed the proper log entry in the cache. After all - without the ID - anyone can claim that find. In the meantime, I will plan on going back to the cache location to enter the ID so that I can "sleep better at night"! I just hope that I can do this soon because with this find, I am only 5 away from reaching 300 cache finds. I hope you enjoyed the story and I would appreciate any comments on this situation.

 

I'd log the find and go back at my leisure to re-sign the log.

 

I can't say that I went out of my way but I tried going back during my lunch time today - I was able to accomplish the task in about 15 minutes - including the drive time - so now I can rest in peace. By the way, the CO never did reply - I suppose he's very busy! Thanks for the reply.

 

RStefano, you'll appreciate this since I think this is one of the northeast PA caches that you've gone to when visiting your family, In Memory of Dad in Rock Glen. It was an icky morning (just finished raining) but for various reasons really wanted to do this cache and we were going back to NY the next day so we hurried and went. It is the first and only time we forgot to sign the log on a cache. But in keeping with the theme of the cache, I had added an "In Memory of Dad" photo collage of my own, one picture of which I have posted on one of our own cache hide descriptions. Well I noted all this in the online log and get an email a couple of weeks later from the cache owner saying that that was proof enough and he'll sign the log for me and to come visit his family's General Store the next time we're in the area. You can imagine how surprised they were when 6 months later we were in the area and did visit it!

[+whistler & co.]

One way to avoid any ambiguity is to take a picture of yourself or one of your team members holding the cache. In this way, you can verify your find with the cache owner if needed, even if the container is muggled right after your visit. We've never had a problem with anyone questioning our finds, but there was one cache where in order to verify that you found it you had to email the owner a code word from inside the container. Of course, we forgot to look at the code word and only signed the logbook. I emailed pictures of my son and my husband holding the one-of-a-kind cache box and the owner was happy. We were also happy not to have to make a two hour round trip to look at the code word!

[+rstefano52]

Whistler & co - thanks for the story and the advice. Unfortunately, in this particular situation - I was very unprepared for a caching hunt! Not only did I not have my GPS, but I didn't have my camera. Sure, I probably could have used my phone camera but it's a royal pain to retrieve pictures from that. I've been having trouble with storing pictures on my Clie so I couldn't use that either. Nevertheless, this is a VERY GOOD suggestion and one that I will conside for all future cache finds. When I first started out, I had always taken a picture because I was very excited at finding the caches. Now, I find excuses for not taking pictures - and most of the time I don't even have my camera with me - that's my biggest excuse. Again, thanks for the advice.