Geocaching with a laptop

[+admo1972]

I allow my residential to stay open, for folks driving by and surfing, since I have done the same.

 

 

My Linksys came with a neat little program called Easylink Advisor which lets me know who's hooked into my system. I too leave mine unsecured because my kids and other folks drop in and use it often and I don't really care if anyone else "drops by" either, but I'm far enough away from any parking to have any "visitors."

 

That being said, I posit the following:

 

Would not that leave you open to problems with users stopping nearby, logging onto illegal sites or some such mischief and dropping little turds that YOUR ISP address was doing the visiting?

 

Dunno how that works, but would not your network have a single ISP address which would be the address of record if anyone did any subsequent investigating?

 

I'm going to do a search on the net later this evening on that but if anyone has the answer, it would save me some time THANKS IN ADVANCE.

 

My knowledge is pretty general, but here we go. As far as your ISP is concerned, there i sonly one computer at your house hooked up to them, using whatever IP address you are connecting with. When someone connects to your router wirelessly, your ISP is none the wiser. It still appears as if your home computer is the only thing hooked up to their network.

 

Let's say you have your main desktop, hooked up to your router (and through that to your ISP modem and out of your house. Your buddy brought over his laptop with a wifi card, and your cousin brought over his Sony PSP and hooks up wirelessly. You go to cnn on your computer, your buddy downloads some questionalble images, and your cousin starts blasting away opponants in an online game on his PSP. As far as your ISP is concerned, only one IP address is requesting all this info, and all the info is being sent down the lines, through the modem, to your router. Your router is doing all the work figuring out which bits go where.

 

So any investigation as to what IP address is doing anything illegal, there is only one, yours.

[+Arndtwe]

What's funny is...you can go to Microcenter or Frye's or Office Depot and buy one of those keychains that detect unprotected WiFi signals.

 

There MUST be a use for those things. I guess to test your own system, right?

I bought one of those from Wal-mart and absolutely love it! There is WiFi EVERYWHERE. You would be surprised at how much there is. Just about any store, gas station, restaurant, school etc. etc. etc. has WiFi.

[+GRANPA ALEX]

I remember reading news stories months ago about little towns and even a county somewhere that was setting up various types of wifi that would cover the whole town or county. Like their own WAN or something but residents would be able to go anywhere in the town (and even spots beyond the edge of town) and get access. It was to paid for by local taxes and some of them were up and running.

 

I thought it was a great idea that would take off in communities all over.

 

Anyone here of any success in this area?

 

In Burlington NC and Greensboro NC (+ other cities), the entire town is wifi . . . it was placed for use by city officials & vehicles but published that anyone could use it . . . when you hit the city limits - you lose connection.

 

I imagine this will be commonplace everywhere . . . it will impact the ISP market, I bet!

[4wheelin_fool]

Thanks for all of the info. I found more by just googling the term "wardriving".

I'll have to make sure any equipment is out of sight.

You can't in Michigan. It's against the law.

Besides the smash and grab (which I'd be more afraid of), there's also potential legal ramifications. In Michigan, it's a 5 year, $10,000 felony.

 

It's odd that they prosecuted someone for using a signal that was provided for the public to use. All he had to say was that he was 'about' to be a customer..

[+louk.]

Thanks for all of the info. I found more by just googling the term "wardriving".

I'll have to make sure any equipment is out of sight.

You can't in Michigan. It's against the law.

Besides the smash and grab (which I'd be more afraid of), there's also potential legal ramifications. In Michigan, it's a 5 year, $10,000 felony.

 

It's odd that they prosecuted someone for using a signal that was provided for the public to use. All he had to say was that he was 'about' to be a customer..

 

What's really odd is that it took them days to figure out that there was any law being broken at all and THEN they sent out a warrant. Not a whole lot of judgement going on there AFAIC.

 

Kinda underscores the whole concept of Name, Rank, Serial Number when talking with the police.

[+Team Cotati]

Thanks for all of the info. I found more by just googling the term "wardriving".

I'll have to make sure any equipment is out of sight.

You can't in Michigan. It's against the law.

Besides the smash and grab (which I'd be more afraid of), there's also potential legal ramifications. In Michigan, it's a 5 year, $10,000 felony.

 

It's odd that they prosecuted someone for using a signal that was provided for the public to use. All he had to say was that he was 'about' to be a customer..

 

Cop to 4WF: You're "about" to become a prisoner in my jail. My "about" trumps your "about". Have a seat in the back of that shiney new Crown Vic right over there. Yeah, the one with the trendy black & white paint job and the really cool lights on top.

[+baloo&bd]

What's really odd is that it took them days to figure out that there was any law being broken at all and THEN they sent out a warrant. Not a whole lot of judgement going on there AFAIC.

 

Kinda underscores the whole concept of Name, Rank, Serial Number when talking with the police.

 

Aside from the inconsistencies you pointed out, there are a few more.

 

I would take this with a grain of salt. It plays out more like another urban legend the press is trying to legitimatize.

 

If it was true, good luck getting a conviction.

Edited December 16, 2007 by baloo&bd

[+eagsc7]

I allow my residential to stay open, for folks driving by and surfing, since I have done the same.

 

 

My Linksys came with a neat little program called Easylink Advisor which lets me know who's hooked into my system. I too leave mine unsecured because my kids and other folks drop in and use it often and I don't really care if anyone else "drops by" either, but I'm far enough away from any parking to have any "visitors."

 

That being said, I posit the following:

 

Would not that leave you open to problems with users stopping nearby, logging onto illegal sites or some such mischief and dropping little turds that YOUR ISP address was doing the visiting?

 

Dunno how that works, but would not your network have a single ISP address which would be the address of record if anyone did any subsequent investigating?

 

I'm going to do a search on the net later this evening on that but if anyone has the answer, it would save me some time THANKS IN ADVANCE.

 

Talking of which... Thats what I'm doing right now... Of course, its a secured network and my wife works there... But while out caching, I do it if I need...

 

The Steaks

[+eagsc7]

I allow my residential to stay open, for folks driving by and surfing, since I have done the same.

 

 

My Linksys came with a neat little program called Easylink Advisor which lets me know who's hooked into my system. I too leave mine unsecured because my kids and other folks drop in and use it often and I don't really care if anyone else "drops by" either, but I'm far enough away from any parking to have any "visitors."

 

That being said, I posit the following:

 

Would not that leave you open to problems with users stopping nearby, logging onto illegal sites or some such mischief and dropping little turds that YOUR ISP address was doing the visiting?

 

Dunno how that works, but would not your network have a single ISP address which would be the address of record if anyone did any subsequent investigating?

 

I'm going to do a search on the net later this evening on that but if anyone has the answer, it would save me some time THANKS IN ADVANCE.

 

Of course, your ISP would see only 1 IP address. If your actually worried about this issue, then turn Logging On. In the Log you can look at what the LAN IP address was at the time, and that would be able to show the MAC address of that IP address. From there, you can show that it was not a computer you own. Some ISPs can do a Network Search for MAC addresses also. That way, they may be able to find a stolen computer that is plugged into the internet.

 

The Steaks

[+geowizerd]

All the McDonalds around here now have wi-fi, and announce it with big signs in the windows. Smash and grab shouldn't be too much trouble, throw a coat over it, slide under the seat, etc. As for using a cell, make sure you have the specific adapter and unlimited plan. THIS dropped my jaw a couple notches this morning!

 

And yeah, the ISP's are sweating... Lafayette, LA told their cable and DSL companies to take a hike, took out a bond, and installed their own fiber optic network, giving FREE interenet access to all residents, that is light years faster than cable or DSL. Bell South and the cable companies have them locked up in a lawsuit, though.

Edited December 16, 2007 by geowizerd

[Mag Magician]

As for using a cell, make sure you have the specific adapter and unlimited plan. THIS dropped my jaw a couple notches this morning!

 

 

It surprises me how many of our young people are complacent in accessing services that they think they have, only to learn the hard way that they are chargeable.

[+tabulator32]

As for using a cell, make sure you have the specific adapter and unlimited plan. THIS dropped my jaw a couple notches this morning!

 

 

It surprises me how many of our young people are complacent in accessing services that they think they have, only to learn the hard way that they are chargeable.

 

Yep! Because phone service contracts are NEVER ambiguous or misleading in any way. They ALWAYS spell out exactly the terms of use in a clear, concise manner which NEVER takes more than a few simple paragraphs.

 

[+escondido100]

just returned from a trip to oregon.... on the bus from pdx to corvallis they had wifi.... very convenient.... it also gave me the idea that you could follow a bus while driving and surf the net..... just have to know which buses..... kinda like speeding behind a guy that has a radar detector....

also while in china earlier in th eyear we notice that all the airports we visited had wifi...very convenient

[+Team Cotati]

just returned from a trip to oregon.... on the bus from pdx to corvallis they had wifi.... very convenient.... it also gave me the idea that you could follow a bus while driving and surf the net..... just have to know which buses..... kinda like speeding behind a guy that has a radar detector....

also while in china earlier in th eyear we notice that all the airports we visited had wifi...very convenient

 

Was that on Greyhound?

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

I am on both ends of the question... having an open network and using those of others.

 

I have a 5-PC network at home that is hard-wired and has a wireless router. My personal machine is a laptop; when I am home it functions like any desktop, when I head out caching it goes in the truck. I have all my apps and data wherever I go, no need to synchronize data between machines.

 

My home Wi-Fi network is unsecured. I live in a fairly small town and know most of the cops and many of the firefighters, and have issued them an open invitation to park in the alley behind my house and connect to the internet whenever they want. Most midnights there's a cop parked behind my house, it's where many of them connect and do their paperwork. I love it! We have zero crime in my neighborhood because of the regular police presence.

 

My laptop uses the built-into XP Wireless Assistant to sense Wi-Fi, so when I am driving anytime I pass a hot-spot an alert pops up. If it is unsecured I may pop online to get a PQ or send an email.

 

I have a cellular wireless data card for when there is no hot-spot close by as well.

 

There are so many open wi-fi hotspots that unless I am looking for one I turn my wi-fi off because the constant alert pop-ups are distracting!

[+geowizerd]

As for using a cell, make sure you have the specific adapter and unlimited plan. THIS dropped my jaw a couple notches this morning!

 

 

It surprises me how many of our young people are complacent in accessing services that they think they have, only to learn the hard way that they are chargeable.

 

Yep! Because phone service contracts are NEVER ambiguous or misleading in any way. They ALWAYS spell out exactly the terms of use in a clear, concise manner which NEVER takes more than a few simple paragraphs.

 

 

Get out your microscope to read the 5 pages of micro print (all written in legalese, of course!). I'm sure the poor guy thought he was covered, he had an "Unlimited Browser Plan", after all... I'm glad I saw that news piece, becasue I've thought about using my cell as a modem. You would think the cell providers would have some kind of requirement to explain just what an "Unlimited Browser Plan" truly is, when they're selling it to you! But then, they throw a whole lot more money around Washington (and the state capitals as well) than we do.

[+tabulator32]

Very often, unscrupulous sales personnel will say practically anything and nod "yes" to all of your capability questions and, by the time you figured out the sales person lied or didn't know anything about what you were asking, you've signed up and now you have an outrageous contract termination fee to pay to get out of your contract if you don't keep it.

 

Sales people will stare at you as if you had just beamed down from the mothership when you ask to see the contract to read PRIOR to agreeing to buy it. I've actually wanted to skim through a contract before and had the sales person tell me they only brought out the contract when I was ready to sign and there was no need to bother, he could answer all my questions. A couple stern words and a request for his manager got me a copy of the contract. I had to go back and request the manager again before THEY actually showed up.

 

I didn't buy a phone from them but I DID show the sales guy and his manager at least two points in the contract that indicated to me the sales guy either lied or didn't know his bus pass from a hole in the ground.

 

Sorry for the rant. I just get steamed over fiendish sales people.

 

(grrrrrr.)

[+geowizerd]

Very often, unscrupulous sales personnel will say practically anything and nod "yes" to all of your capability questions and, by the time you figured out the sales person lied or didn't know anything about what you were asking, you've signed up and now you have an outrageous contract termination fee to pay to get out of your contract if you don't keep it.

 

(grrrrrr.)

 

Yep, they'll say "Why yes Sir, you certainly CAN use your phone as a modem on your laptop!" They just forget to mention that you will find a five figure bill in your mailbox next month! I concur with the grrrrr completely!

[+MaplessInSeattle]

Just wanted to add a few notes about this.

When I used to teach a class on network security, part of the class field trip was to go out wardriving. This was of course well before it was popular, back in the early netstumbler days.

I had warned my students that anyone who was so inclined, could set up a honeypot.

So do use caution, many "hackers" have set up these "unsecured" networks, only to enable promiscuous mode on their system and capture everything from a foreign MAC address.

If you use a system that is not your own, you run the risk of falling victim to this type of attack.

I'm amazed as what people will send over an unsecured network.

If you do decide to use these, you do so at your own risk. The odds are extremely unlikely that this would happen to you. When I open up my network, it is set up to capture all foreign MAC traffic and store it to my fileserver.

[+Team Cotati]

Just wanted to add a few notes about this.

When I used to teach a class on network security, part of the class field trip was to go out wardriving. This was of course well before it was popular, back in the early netstumbler days.

I had warned my students that anyone who was so inclined, could set up a honeypot.

So do use caution, many "hackers" have set up these "unsecured" networks, only to enable promiscuous mode on their system and capture everything from a foreign MAC address.

If you use a system that is not your own, you run the risk of falling victim to this type of attack.

I'm amazed as what people will send over an unsecured network.

If you do decide to use these, you do so at your own risk. The odds are extremely unlikely that this would happen to you. When I open up my network, it is set up to capture all foreign MAC traffic and store it to my fileserver.

 

What's you're street address, I've got some 'traffic' that I'd like to send your way.

[bogleman]

I'll add that I fell victim to the lovely scam using a public wifi access. A nice person got my email password and used my account to send some lovely spam to many folks. My ISP was really happy with me about that, live and learn.

[+Renegade Knight]

Very often, unscrupulous sales personnel will say practically anything and nod "yes" to all of your capability questions and, by the time you figured out the sales person lied or didn't know anything about what you were asking, you've signed up and now you have an outrageous contract termination fee to pay to get out of your contract if you don't keep it....

 

That's why I'm leaving T-Mobile when my contract is up. I asked point blank. "can I have the services that I have not sighed up for turned off so there are no suprizes on my bill? "YES!" was their answer. Along comes a bill with a suprise. "I'm sorry but we don't turn off services"

 

If you miskey the area code for Idaho turns out you send a text to the US Virgin Islands and that's not covered by my texting plans. Per what I was told, that message should have bounced as unsendable. Reality is T-Mobile just cost me money that they agreed I would not need to spend. I don't do busienss with companeis that cost me money for nothing.

[+TotemLake]

"If I pull into a residential development and get a signal which has no password for access, could someone get upset over this?"

 

How is it that someone knows what you are doing in the first place? Seeing someone in a parked vehicle with a laptop in the year 2007 would hardly be noteworthy.

 

Other than the general interest that home owners mght have wrt 'strange' vehicles parked in the hood, this I believe in practical terms, is a non-issue. You're more likely to viewed as a potential pedophile or worse, an insurance salesman.

A router does have a log that you can reference. It is prosecutable and has been prosecuted. The action is called theft of services and it is considered just as serious as a break-in.

[+MaplessInSeattle]

What's you're street address, I've got some 'traffic' that I'd like to send your way.

Here are the soft coords to my house. I mean, it's only off by a little bit.

N 50° 39.636

E 149° 51.935

[+Lakebum]

I use my laptop nearly every time I go caching.

 

I have an AT&T cell card in my laptop. Most everywhere I have cell phone service I have Internet access.

 

It cost about the same as a cell phone. You have to buy the card, then it is ~$49 a month unlimited.

 

I have other uses for it besides caching, like when I am on the lake or when I am visiting family out of town. I don't think I would have bought it just for caching, but since I have it, it sure helps out.

 

I do worry about smash and grab, but I keep it pretty well hidden in my vehicle when I have to go more than a 100 feet away.

 

If you can justify it with enough usage it works quite well. It does not have the same speed as WiFi, but I am not watching videos or gaming with it so it works fine for what I am doing.

[4wheelin_fool]

I'll add that I fell victim to the lovely scam using a public wifi access. A nice person got my email password and used my account to send some lovely spam to many folks. My ISP was really happy with me about that, live and learn.

 

Thats what I was wondering about, if there was any way you could tell who else was monitoring traffic, and how to be careful about signing in to e-mail. Usually, if your account is used to send out spam it is due to a virus. If someone does get in, it's possible they could find enough info for identity theft or some scam.