Stolen Geocoin

[+naj3]

I'm starting this topic to bring it to the attention of other cachers.

 

I have a lot of coins out traveling and take the time here and there to see how they are faring. My son loves to track them on a map. Many of my coins have disappeared in the field and can not be tracked down. This case is different.

 

I have become aware due to the help from another cacher that one of my geocoins I sent out as a traveler is being held indefinitely by another cacher. NAJ3 IRC Poffertjes 2006 Geocoin http://www.geocaching.com/track/details.aspx?id=619404 has been held by a cacher since March 2007. They dropped it in an unpublished cache more than a month ago. I have emailed them about it and gotten no response. Another cacher has emailed them repeatedly and they say they can play the game however they want.

 

HUH??? This is stealing in my book. It's a traveler meant to be moved from cache to cache. Frankly this really burns my butt! I would like other people to know about this cacher(s)'s game play and actions. How can I clue them in on what they are doing is wrong if they won't respond to emails? My guess is they already know. People like these need to be weeded out of the system if others are to continue spending their money on things in this game for the further enjoyment of others.

[+TotemLake]

I feel your plight. There is always the risk of this type of thing happening and you have done everything you can within reason to try to get the coin back into play. That being said, learn to let go the things you can't control.

[+WRASTRO]

I have to disagree as it seems this is an active caching team and they have moved coins and bugs before. It would seem they are holding trackables for an inordinate length of time and they are not being responsive to owner inquiries even though they are logging on to the site.

[+TotemLake]

Disagree with what exactly?

 

1. That there is risk?

2. You can't control everything about this game?

3. Learn to let go and get over the stress?

 

What are you going to do beyond what has already been done? You can only apply peer pressure. You cannot weed them out as they are here to stay and you can't really call the cops on them can you?

 

As with any traveler, you take a chance as soon as you put in the box. Did I say you gotta like it? Nope. I did imply get over it. It is part of the risk. It always has been and always will be. It goes hand in hand with muggling.

Edited December 2, 2007 by TotemLake

[+CACHE KRAWLER]

I too love to send out coins for other peoples enjoyment. About 6 months ago a geocacher grabbed my A.P.E. Cache Geocoin. She wrote up a great log and all was happy. Three months later I decided to send her a courtesy e-mail reminding her in case she forgot, that she still had in her posession one of my geocoins. What I got back was an e-mail berating me about how I don't have the right to contact her, and that I am what's wrong with geocaching these days and to make a long e-mail short, she said that she will be keeping the coin in her possesion untill she feels like dropping it off. Well a week ago I got an e-mail saying that somebody grabbed the coin from her. After the initial ordeal I wrote that coin off as a loss. Fotunately, she had a change of heart.

 

I put alot of time into my coins once I decide to send them out. I drill them, put some plastic covered cable through them and then clamp them together with a Dog Tag saying what the intentions of the coin is. Just a basic tag that you order from cache supply websites. Unfortunatley as well, that this still isn't even enough sometimes to keep people from keeping them as I have lost two coins that I put out less that 3 months ago. Very irritating? Yes, but such is life and I continue to put them out there.

 

I hope that you move on and don't let it eat you up too much. Trust me, you can ask my wife, I don't normally let this kind of stuff go by me without me making my point and intent very clear. But I decided to drop this latest issue before it turned into a huge ordeal.

 

You never know, you may just run into them one day at a nearby Geocache...

[+naj3]

I am willing to let it go as I have others. See "Bad Magical Coins" http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...a4-7495a2e543af where I have dropped four of mine that went "missing" for others to still discover. It is the fact that they are making it perfectly plain that they are keeping it that bugs me.

Edited December 2, 2007 by naj3

[+palmetto]

Your coin is in a cache submitted for publication. There are some issues to be dealt with. I expect that the coin will move when the cache is published.

[+WRASTRO]

I meant that I disagree with just letting it go and letting an active cacher who should know better abuse the game. It seems to me that all they need to do is respond to the owner in a reasonable way and explain why they are holding the coin for so long. Seems pretty easy to me, and that is all I expect when I contact someone about one of our trackables.

[+GrnXnham]

Like JEEOCACHER, we drill a hole in our coins and then attach an instruction card to each coin before sending them out into the world.

 

Seems to help some but there will always be geocoin thieves out there.

[+Forty-n-Eight]

It seems to me that all they need to do is respond to the owner in a reasonable way and explain why they are holding the coin for so long. Seems pretty easy to me, and that is all I expect when I contact someone about one of our trackables.

 

Responding is one thing, returning the geocoin to circulation is another. I have a CITO coin that's been in the hands of a cacher for the past thirteen months. He's responded in a reasonable way to my inquiries and has promised time and time again to release the coin, but hasn't. I've even offered to send a self-addressed stamped envelope so he can mail it back to be, but it's done no good. I guess he likes the coin more than I do.

[+superhoser]

I try to view my coins with little attachment to them, that way when they get stolen or mishandled then oh well it was just a coin. the coins I am attached to stay with me and I have other cachers discover them.

 

I really never expect to see theses ever again.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/track/details.aspx?id=634402

http://www.geocaching.com/track/details.aspx?id=642759

http://www.geocaching.com/track/details.aspx?id=849384

http://www.geocaching.com/track/details.aspx?id=699845

http://www.geocaching.com/track/details.aspx?id=1210071

[+Dgwphotos]

CENT 5 and I generally email the person that has the coin to encurage them to move the coin on, then after a couple of non responses, we mark the coins stolen.

[+superhoser]

you can see some of them I have marked missing, it is just the way things roll.buh-bye coin.

[+TotemLake]

I meant that I disagree with just letting it go and letting an active cacher who should know better abuse the game. It seems to me that all they need to do is respond to the owner in a reasonable way and explain why they are holding the coin for so long. Seems pretty easy to me, and that is all I expect when I contact someone about one of our trackables.

I agree with your premise. I disagree its worth stressing over a $7 coin after two maybe three attempts to get it back in circulation. You're not going to change that person's attitude overnight and continuous messaging will only cause them to pick up an even stiffer attitude against putting it back. Allyou can hope for is peer pressure. That's all this game is about for indvidual integrity.

[+WRASTRO]

Yep. I would say we are in complete agreement.

[+naj3]

I finally got a response from the people that have the coin in question due to this forum (goal #1). It was a nasty and rude response I was tempted to post here but decided aganist it. Regardless...they are keeping the coin and choosing to do with it what they feel like. My point in starting this discussion was to let others know about the situation (goal #2). I appreciate the feedback. I have more then 130 coins in circulation. Many coins get lost or muggled but this situation was different and I wanted to draw attention to these cachers and their ways (goal #3) Mission accomplished.

 

The current holders have informed me "If you put out a coin; you leave it up to the player, muggle or who every the hell finds it to do as they please, that is part of the game. I don’t play the game for you, I play it for me. "

 

Am I going to loose sleep over it if it gets thrown in the Pacific as I was threatened with by the current holder? No I could care less if they, out of weird spite, decided to destroy it. It was the principle of why anyone buys coins for others enjoyment and sends them out to travel. These people have chosen to not play the game as intended (not respect the wishes of the owner). Oh, well. Why anyone would act as they do I have no idea.

[+eagsc7]

I'm starting this topic to bring it to the attention of other cachers.

 

I have a lot of coins out traveling and take the time here and there to see how they are faring. My son loves to track them on a map. Many of my coins have disappeared in the field and can not be tracked down. This case is different.

 

I have become aware due to the help from another cacher that one of my geocoins I sent out as a traveler is being held indefinitely by another cacher. NAJ3 IRC Poffertjes 2006 Geocoin http://www.geocaching.com/track/details.aspx?id=619404 has been held by a cacher since March 2007. They dropped it in an unpublished cache more than a month ago. I have emailed them about it and gotten no response. Another cacher has emailed them repeatedly and they say they can play the game however they want.

 

HUH??? This is stealing in my book. It's a traveler meant to be moved from cache to cache. Frankly this really burns my butt! I would like other people to know about this cacher(s)'s game play and actions. How can I clue them in on what they are doing is wrong if they won't respond to emails? My guess is they already know. People like these need to be weeded out of the system if others are to continue spending their money on things in this game for the further enjoyment of others.

 

I've heard of this happening before, but Everyone has a chance for a FTF here... Its Google Earth coords are N43.98 W123.092 Yeah, I know its not published, but if you want the coin.... Pick it up. It may or may not be there....

 

The Steaks

[+eagsc7]

I am willing to let it go as I have others. See "Bad Magical Coins" http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...a4-7495a2e543af where I have dropped four of mine that went "missing" for others to still discover. It is the fact that they are making it perfectly plain that they are keeping it that bugs me.

Yeah... They aren't keeping them. Its in a unpublished cache... Its that simple...

 

The Steaks

 

If I were closer, I'd go after the cache... but I don't have that kind of time...

[+YeOleImposter]

Just like some unscrupulous people will steal artwork for their private collection, so also some unscrupulous cachers will steal coins for their private collection. Funny how they rationalize their theft.

[+Dgwphotos]

It may not actually be in the cache, they may have dropped it there virtually to get naj3 off their back.

[+Prying Pandora]

It also may not even be a cache. Many cachers create a cache listing to drop their coin collection in, but never hide a container for it or have it published.

[+intolerable]

The current holders have informed me "If you put out a coin; you leave it up to the player, muggle or who every the hell finds it to do as they please, that is part of the game. I don’t play the game for you, I play it for me. "

 

Wow, that is *so* wrong.

 

We really want to send our coins out and share the icons with area folks. Nothing I love more than finding coins in caches. We started by sending out a number of coins to be passed through caches among folks we trusted we would get our coins back from and if that went well decided that we would then proceed to send a few coins at a time out into the wild for everyone. We don't expect to get those coins back, but we sure don't expect someone to steal the coins and then react in the above sort of way. Stuff like this is really discouraging.

[+Shop99er]

The current holders have informed me "If you put out a coin; you leave it up to the player, muggle or who every the hell finds it to do as they please, that is part of the game. I don’t play the game for you, I play it for me. "

 

Wow, that is *so* wrong.

 

We really want to send our coins out and share the icons with area folks. Nothing I love more than finding coins in caches. We started by sending out a number of coins to be passed through caches among folks we trusted we would get our coins back from and if that went well decided that we would then proceed to send a few coins at a time out into the wild for everyone. We don't expect to get those coins back, but we sure don't expect someone to steal the coins and then react in the above sort of way. Stuff like this is really discouraging.

 

Considering that it is still in an unpublished cache, after over a month, I think that we can all guess what they have planned for it. Judging by their trackable page, it don't look good.

 

naj3, it looks like you might have to give up on it.

Edited December 11, 2007 by Shop99er

[+coreynjoey]

The current holders have informed me "If you put out a coin; you leave it up to the player, muggle or who every the hell finds it to do as they please, that is part of the game. I don't play the game for you, I play it for me. "

 

Wow, that is *so* wrong.

 

We really want to send our coins out and share the icons with area folks. Nothing I love more than finding coins in caches. We started by sending out a number of coins to be passed through caches among folks we trusted we would get our coins back from and if that went well decided that we would then proceed to send a few coins at a time out into the wild for everyone. We don't expect to get those coins back, but we sure don't expect someone to steal the coins and then react in the above sort of way. Stuff like this is really discouraging.

 

Considering that it is still in an unpublished cache, after over a month, I think that we can all guess what they have planned for it. Judging by their trackable page, it don't look good.

 

naj3, it looks like you might have to give up on it.

 

 

I'd have to agree. What I do with coins that appear to have been stolen, is change the name of it to "THIS COIN HAS BEEN STOLEN!!" I doubt it does anything useful, but it makes me feel a little bit better.

[+Shop99er]

The current holders have informed me "If you put out a coin; you leave it up to the player, muggle or who every the hell finds it to do as they please, that is part of the game. I don't play the game for you, I play it for me. "

 

Wow, that is *so* wrong.

 

We really want to send our coins out and share the icons with area folks. Nothing I love more than finding coins in caches. We started by sending out a number of coins to be passed through caches among folks we trusted we would get our coins back from and if that went well decided that we would then proceed to send a few coins at a time out into the wild for everyone. We don't expect to get those coins back, but we sure don't expect someone to steal the coins and then react in the above sort of way. Stuff like this is really discouraging.

 

Considering that it is still in an unpublished cache, after over a month, I think that we can all guess what they have planned for it. Judging by their trackable page, it don't look good.

 

naj3, it looks like you might have to give up on it.

 

 

I'd have to agree. What I do with coins that appear to have been stolen, is change the name of it to "THIS COIN HAS BEEN STOLEN!!" I doubt it does anything useful, but it makes me feel a little bit better.

 

That's brilliant!!

[+TotemLake]

The current holders have informed me "If you put out a coin; you leave it up to the player, muggle or who every the hell finds it to do as they please, that is part of the game. I don't play the game for you, I play it for me. "

 

Wow, that is *so* wrong.

 

We really want to send our coins out and share the icons with area folks. Nothing I love more than finding coins in caches. We started by sending out a number of coins to be passed through caches among folks we trusted we would get our coins back from and if that went well decided that we would then proceed to send a few coins at a time out into the wild for everyone. We don't expect to get those coins back, but we sure don't expect someone to steal the coins and then react in the above sort of way. Stuff like this is really discouraging.

 

Considering that it is still in an unpublished cache, after over a month, I think that we can all guess what they have planned for it. Judging by their trackable page, it don't look good.

 

naj3, it looks like you might have to give up on it.

 

 

I'd have to agree. What I do with coins that appear to have been stolen, is change the name of it to "THIS COIN HAS BEEN STOLEN!!" I doubt it does anything useful, but it makes me feel a little bit better.

 

That's brilliant!!

Best idea I've seen come out of this thread. The same can be done for TB's as well.

[+TotemLake]

oh yah... that's why you don't refresh a fatal error.

Edited December 12, 2007 by TotemLake

[+Recdiver]

 

I'd have to agree. What I do with coins that appear to have been stolen, is change the name of it to "THIS COIN HAS BEEN STOLEN!!" I doubt it does anything useful, but it makes me feel a little bit better.

I really like that idea.

[+LandRover]

I'd have to agree. What I do with coins that appear to have been stolen, is change the name of it to "THIS COIN HAS BEEN STOLEN!!" I doubt it does anything useful, but it makes me feel a little bit better.

I haven't renamed any of my "missing" coins but I have added "If you are logging this from someones collection it was STOLEN" to the page of some of them.

[+eagsc7]

I'd have to agree. What I do with coins that appear to have been stolen, is change the name of it to "THIS COIN HAS BEEN STOLEN!!" I doubt it does anything useful, but it makes me feel a little bit better.

I haven't renamed any of my "missing" coins but I have added "If you are logging this from someones collection it was STOLEN" to the page of some of them.

 

Rather interesting.. I'm glad that I'm not that anal...

[+JenandJim]

Alright you guys,

The truth is I don't play that much. I am a full-time student and a full-time employee as well as starting an animal rescue and trying to have a life. That’s the only reason we still have the coin. We placed it in a new cache we put out in hopes it would be published. When we found out about it being too close to a mystery cache it sucked, and we planned to move it when we had time. But as you can see from my schedule, it’s short on supply. We are out of town with work this weekend, but if all goes well we can get back out there next weekend. Please stop blowing this out of proportion. I'm trying to move it, I just don't have the time right now.

JenandJim

[+TotemLake]

...and there folks, you now have the flip side of the coin.

[+hydnsek]

...and there folks, you now have the flip side of the coin.

Yep, and I empathize with them. For many folks, caching is an occasional activity. All the more reason not to hold onto items that belong to other cachers, when you aren't sure if/when you can move them along.

 

In this case, since the coin owner has been asking them for some time to release the coin, they could just drop it into any cache, any time, wherever is convenient, rather than holding onto it until they can publish their new cache with the coin inside.

[+TJdamon]

...and there folks, you now have the flip side of the coin.

Yep, and I empathize with them. For many folks, caching is an occasional activity. All the more reason not to hold onto items that belong to other cachers, when you aren't sure if/when you can move them along.

 

In this case, since the coin owner has been asking them for some time to release the coin, they could just drop it into any cache, any time, wherever is convenient, rather than holding onto it until they can publish their new cache with the coin inside.

I couldn't agree more

[+MT Fellwalker]

Okay, folks, nothing to see here, move along...

 

Seriously, we've probably all held onto someone else's trackables a little too long at one point or another. I'm proud of the Northwest forums measured response to these problems. In other corners of the world this would be a big deal. It's very nice to see some restraint in the responses here. Once again the Pacific Northwest leads by example...

 

Way to go, guys!!

 

Oh, and Happy Holidays!

[+TotemLake]

...and there folks, you now have the flip side of the coin.

Yep, and I empathize with them. For many folks, caching is an occasional activity. All the more reason not to hold onto items that belong to other cachers, when you aren't sure if/when you can move them along.

 

In this case, since the coin owner has been asking them for some time to release the coin, they could just drop it into any cache, any time, wherever is convenient, rather than holding onto it until they can publish their new cache with the coin inside.

Although I tend to agree with your general sentiment, one can never tell when life over runs the plans of mice and men. It is a game and sometimes personal priorities do not always get to the the game first. I read their statement as they had planned on moving it right away, but things got in the way. I've had that happen to me and I'm sure everyone else here has had that happen as well.

 

As I've only seen a one-sided summarized version of what has happened, I'll err on the side of life getting in the way.

Edited December 20, 2007 by TotemLake

[+hydnsek]

...and there folks, you now have the flip side of the coin.

Yep, and I empathize with them. For many folks, caching is an occasional activity. All the more reason not to hold onto items that belong to other cachers, when you aren't sure if/when you can move them along.

 

In this case, since the coin owner has been asking them for some time to release the coin, they could just drop it into any cache, any time, wherever is convenient, rather than holding onto it until they can publish their new cache with the coin inside.

Although I tend to agree with your general sentiment, one can never tell when life over runs the plans of mice and men. It is a game and sometimes personal priorities do not always get to the the game first. I read their statement as they had planned on moving it right away, but things got in the way. I've had that happen to me and I'm sure everyone else here has had that happen as well.

 

As I've only seen a one-sided summarized version of what has happened, I'll err on the side of life getting in the way.

Well, a look at the coin's page shows they've had it since March 3, 2007. Nine months is a long time, even with life in the way. There must've been a cache somewhere nearby (or along a road) that they could have dropped it into, once they realized geocaching was going to be on the back burner a while. I'm just sayin'....

[Team Misguided]

Okay, folks, nothing to see here, move along...

 

*** snip *****

 

Oh, and Happy Holidays!

 

This was MT Fellwalker's subtle attempt to encourage everyone to let this horse rest in peace and drop off the page.

 

 

wink, wink, nudge, nudge

[+TJdamon]

Okay, folks, nothing to see here, move along...

 

*** snip *****

 

Oh, and Happy Holidays!

 

This was MT Fellwalker's subtle attempt to encourage everyone to let this horse rest in peace and drop off the page.

 

 

wink, wink, nudge, nudge

[+Difranco]

I can't imagine holding onto someones trackable much longer than a month. Life in the way for 9 months is quite a long time. After two months of not moving it, dropping the coin off should be treated like an errand to be ran much the same as going to the grocery store, post office, etc. Heck you can even go to a cache that you've already logged so there is no hunt involved. Pass it to another cacher that is more active than you are... do something.

 

Unless you are dead or your house/auto burns down with coin in it, two months is more than enough time to move a coin.

[+TotemLake]

But then again, these are your priorities and not theirs. Until you walk in somebody else's shoes, you are only guessing.

[+TotemLake]

Okay, folks, nothing to see here, move along...

 

*** snip *****

 

Oh, and Happy Holidays!

 

This was MT Fellwalker's subtle attempt to encourage everyone to let this horse rest in peace and drop off the page.

 

 

wink, wink, nudge, nudge

 

I respectfully disagree this should be left alone. It is a fundamental issue of when does the game priorities take over life priorities.

[+LandRover]

But then again, these are your priorities and not theirs. Until you walk in somebody else's shoes, you are only guessing.

Caching may have taken a backseat to life for JenandJim, but not enough to stop them from caching completly. They have found at least 40 caches since picking up the coin in question back in march, certainly it would have fit into one of those cache containers.

 

I'lll crawl back under my rock now.

[+TotemLake]

That's a good point and I guess I'll crawl back under mine now too.

[+Dgwphotos]

I don't think it explains the rude response to emails either.

[+ReadyOrNot]

Once you release the coin, you've got to just nature take its course. As we have learned, some people play the game "differently" than others. Some people collect shiny things and keep them. Calling that stealing is not right. I prefer, "Permission-less borrowing". Why can't we all just get along and learn that we are all different and not everyone's definition of "Wrong" is the same. Who has the right to tell anyone else that "Permission-less borrowing" is somehow "wrong"?

[+TotemLake]

I don't think it explains the rude response to emails either.

I went back through and didn't see any rude responses quoted. Just a reference of an alleged rude response. I'll take that with a grain of salt until I see something quoted and not refuted by the alleged sender. There are many posts in the main forums that raise the "they offended me somehow" threads with the same style song and dance. There are two sides to every story. I've seen many posts claiming rude responses only to read the actual response and find out it was a well written thought out response in reply to the rudeness that was thrust upon them through an e-mail.

[+The Navigatorz]

If you leave a posession of yours on property thats not your own, and you go back in a few days to check on it, and its gone...was it stolen? Lets say I leave my camera on a park bench, with a note that anyone can use it to take a picture, but please leave it on the park bench. When I go back in a few days and its gone....was it stolen? I think the word "stolen" is not the right term when it comes losing coins and travel bugs, when they're placed in containers, that are not our own, on property that's not our own. Just a thought. Going to crawl back under the boulder I was hiding under.

[+Difranco]

If you leave a posession of yours on property thats not your own, and you go back in a few days to check on it, and its gone...was it stolen? Lets say I leave my camera on a park bench, with a note that anyone can use it to take a picture, but please leave it on the park bench. When I go back in a few days and its gone....was it stolen? I think the word "stolen" is not the right term when it comes losing coins and travel bugs, when they're placed in containers, that are not our own, on property that's not our own. Just a thought. Going to crawl back under the boulder I was hiding under.

 

Actually yes that is stealing. Property taken from the lawful owner is theft/stealing. If I lose my wallet underneath said park bench, I hope someone has the decency to phone me or return it to the park service lost and found. If I place my bicycle in the bike rack next to said park bench to go play Frisbee, it should be there when I return. Your example above about the camera is merely an example of foolishness upon the owner's part, trusting in the innate goodness of fellow park users to care for his property.

 

Stealing is the act of taking property without the consent of the owner plain and simple.

 

A geocache owner places a geocache expecting others to use their cache in accordance with the commonly accepted rules of geocaching and often times add more rules to their cache. It's called decency, integrity and common courtesy; which many seem to want to rationalize away responsibility and expectation there of.

[+The Navigatorz]

If I lose my wallet underneath said park bench, I hope someone has the decency to phone me or return it to the park service lost and found. If I place my bicycle in the bike rack next to said park bench to go play Frisbee, it should be there when I return.

 

 

I see your point, but I would never park my bicycle without locking it up. In reference to your example about losing your wallet. My example was of knowingly placing a camera and walking away from it. You may have missed my point, so I'll use your example of the wallet. Let's say you "place" your wallet on a park bench with a sign that reads "Do Not Take". If you return in a couple of days expecting to see your wallet where you left it, you may be disappointed. It will most likely be gone (and it probably will not be at a Lost and Found). Was the wallet stolen? I guess that's arguable. But I doubt if the police would help you much if they knew the circumstance. My point is this, if you don't want to lose something, then keep it in your possession. If you're going to place a trackable in a cache, then you may as well expect at some point along the way, it will come up missing. Unfortnately that is reality. I've come to that realization after placing 16 signature travel bugs, and only a couple are still in circulation. I have written to some of the takers who did not move them along, and also received no response. So the way I look at it, if a trackable of mine gets 500 miles before it disappears, Great. If it gets 10,000 miles before it disappears, even better. Am I condoning the bahavior of those who take travel bugs or coins and never move them along. No. But I conclude right from the offset that each trackable I send out will eventually come up missing, that way I don't sweat it if it does.

Edited December 26, 2007 by The Navigatorz