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Message for Mort25 WRT Mono Cliffhanger REV B


Couparangus

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Not a problem. If you feel there is a problem with my caches, feel free to take whatever action you feel necessary. They are not that important to me to do that much research.

 

OK, let me get this straight. You don't seem to care enough about caching to do any research at all on your own caches, but you are demanding that someone else provide documented proof of permission to place a cache?

There seems to be a bit of a double standard here. which is it, that documentary proof is required, or that verbal assurances are enough? If documentation is required, please provide the documentation for all of your caches. If it's not required, please shut up, and stop threatening to steal caches that you don't happen to like.

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Not a problem. If you feel there is a problem with my caches, feel free to take whatever action you feel necessary. They are not that important to me to do that much research. If they are delisted, then so be it. I don't take this hobby that seriously. If anyone is that concerned about my caches, and can prove that I have violated any rules, then I will move them or delist them myself. But I wold hope that I would be given options, just as I gave CA options to fix his cache.

Yes, you likely would be given options. By the cache approvers. You may be given 'suggestions' by other well meaning cachers...but no cacher I know would EVER presume to play god with someone elses cache. And this is exactly what you are doing. It is simply NOT your place to 'give options' to anyone in this game. Keep your holier than thou tendencies for your day job.

:(

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K, I'm done with this now. We are going in circles. Unless someone has something to prove beyond a doubt that I am wrong about the pipes clue, I have nothing more to say. I will not defend my position anymore, and I have explained it many times. I will also not change it. To those who continue to misunderstand what I am trying to say - see chris mouse - please read the entire thread.

If someone has information that the caches I have placed are inappropriate, please let me know so that I can rectify the situation. Otherwise, I am done with that as well.

Bye all.

Edited by mort25
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Infact, I will explain one last time. The pipes clue is well off the marked trail. There are signs posted at the entrance to the park advising users to stay on the marked trail. I have asked the owner to change that clue, which he has not done. He only put an alternate clue, leaving the option to use the pipes clue and still go off the marked trail. Which people have done. I gave him the option of contacting Ontario Parks to find out if this clue violates the rules, which he has not. Many warnings went out that I would remove the cache. Nothing was done, I went to remove the cache and it was already gone (wheather or not you chose to believe me, I don't care)

I am not concerned with Groundspeak rules. This clearly violates a posted park rule. Excercise the options, and I will mind my own business.

Geocaching is not imoprtant enough to me to research if my caches violate any rules. Nothing is posted at the enterance to the reserve. If they violate the rules, then let me know, and I will change them or remove them. What is important to me, is following the rules of the park.

Now I'm done. That is unless someone posts a reply that I feel warrants a response from me. Otherwise, you can all have fun debating this with each other.

Until this problem is rectified to my satisfaction, no one can stop what I am doing.

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mort25, being a bully in a hobby you just recently started to other cachers is not the route to take, contact the park and find out if the area is truly off limits, otherwise, it is not your cache. Making threats to remove another cachers cache is not cool. You have contacted the cache owner and you have contacted myself, currently I have been provided by the cache owner that the required permission for the cache has been obtained and I have no complaint from the parks superintendant.

 

Couparangus, if the stage is actually off trail in an off limits area, regardless of the level of current use, maybe the stage needs to be removed for the alternate stage only. This would be in the best interesting of one day having geocaching an activity once again permitted in Parks Ontario.

 

The only people that should be removing a cache is the cache owner, property owner/manager/security. I don't even remove an intact cache as it does not belong to me, but I will archive a listing if required.

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Thank you cache tech. That is all I have asked from the beginning. I have not, and will not touch the cache, if the park rules are followed. (although the intent is and was there, I will not deny.)

I want to be allowed to hike, and geocache, where I chose. If we continue to break the rules, then people will not have any respect for either of these activities, and will no longer want us to use their land. Public, or private.

Perhaps Groundspeak needs to revisit the reasons caches were banned from being placed in Provincial Parks in the first place. That is only a thought, as I have no idea what the original reasons were.

Edited by mort25
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Let me correct something I have said. Geocahcing does not mean enough to me to check if my caches violate any posted rules. As far as I know, I have not. If I have violated rules I am not aware of, please let me know. I will fix the problem one way or another. If I have not broken any posted rules, then I am not concerned enough with my caches, or the game, to look any deeper. If they need to go, then they need to go. I have pointed out where a fellow geocachers stash (or clue) HAS violated posted rules, and nothing was done to rectify it. Not even an enquiry to Parks Ontario. Simply a refusal. Myself, if I violated a posted rule I was not aware of, I wouldn't even put the effort into a phone call to the propper authorities to clarify. I would just move the cache (or the clue) and carry on. It would be pretty obvious that I was wrong. Heck, it's on a sign at the front of the park.

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I also have to laugh. All of you are attacking me for my morals and my tactics. But what about the owner, who is clearly breaking the rules, and refuses to get clarification from the proper authorities. All of you defend him. Where are your morals and values?

A reality check perhaps!?!

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And that's enough said. Two reviewers have explained that the cache owner has permission for this listing. Permission trumps everything except the commercial guidelines.

 

The proper method for handling the concerns surrounding this cache have presented and any needed actions appear to have been taken by those involved.

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To those who continue to misunderstand what I am trying to say - see chris mouse - please read the entire thread.

 

Oh I have read the entire thread, and I do understand what you are saying.

 

You have a problem with this particular cache placement. Nobody else does.

You are unhappy with the cache owner's response. Nobody else is.

You are unhappy with Groundspeak's response. Nobody else is.

You have decided that your opinion is more important than every one else's

You have decided to remove a cache belonging to someone else.

 

Well, I've got news for you. you are not the final authority on geocaching.

The only people with the right to remove a cache container are the land owner and the cache owner. Period.

As a geocacher, the only decision you get to make about someone else's cache is whether or not you will search for it.

Both legally and ethically you have made a mistake, and everyone here is telling you so. I suggest you stop trying to rationalize your mistake and learn from it.

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I was going to quote Mort25 and shoot holes through most everything he's said - and believe me, it would be easy. Quite frankly, I've got better things to do.

 

What this boils down to, in my opinion, is a cache that is well within guidelines and one pedant whose (mis)interpretation of a lone sign in the parking lot is the issue. I don't feel that I'm under any obligation to prove the cache as its fine as it stands. Given only Mort25 has taken exception to the cache, then the onus should be on him to prove there really is a problem with it. Given your station in the provincial government it sounds like you're in a good position to take it up with the appropriate people. However knowing your attitudes and behaviour here, I can easily imagine that your credibility outside of geocacing is also less-than-zero. Consequently I'm not surprised that you have chosen not to follow this up through parks Ontario but found the time to type over 3,000 words of bile here - invariably while at work I'm guessing.

 

If you're not prepared to do this, then this issue is dead and the container will be replaced.

 

C-A

Edited by Couparangus
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Funny, you have better things to do than shoot holes in everything I said? Yet the time to write further after that. No, I have not done any of this at work. I work too hard and get paid WAY to much to waste time on this at work. I have a job to do. And yes, I have written many words here, of bile as you state. But I have no desire to do the research. It takes nothing for me to sit at my computer and type this stuff out.

Feel free to replace the container. You know where I stand. That does not change. No matter what you, or anyone else on this forum states, it does not change. Argue it all you want. Poke all the holes you want. Make any threats you want. It does not change. Tell me I'm wasting my time going out there, yet I could do the research with less effort, it does not change. (Remember, I love to hike, so it's no effort at all going out there). If you are not going to bother doing the research, if your cache is not that important to you, then you are wasting your time going out there to replace it. If people are concerned about my well being, and the fact that they believe I can have some sort of charges brought against me, be it for littering or stealing, well I am not concerned. (Sense the sarcasim - not sure if you can get that on the computer).

Feel free to go out there and replace it. I have plenty of time time go for a hike myself. I will have the courtesy of letting you know when it is no longer where you put it. I don't want anyone wasting their time looking for it if it's not there.

Oh, and as for "lone sign" as you state, there are 2 for sure, one at the only official entrance off 3rd line, and one at the old entrance off 2nd line. Not sure about the old entrance off County Rd 8. I can check and take a couple of pictures if you like. I can even put them in the gallery for the cache, after I have gone to check on it once replaced.

Anyway, enough for now. Time for work you know. But remember, no argument or threat will change my mind. You have been made well aware of the only thing that will, so feel free to do as you please with this.

Edited by mort25
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I have a few questions for Mort25. If the only reason you are going after this cache is because some or all of it is off the trail along a trail that has been posted to stay on the trails, what about other caches that are off the trail in a stay on the trail area. For example, the Bruce Trail clearly indicates that you must stay on the trail. Does this mean that any cache along the Bruce Trail that is off the trail should be removed? If so, will you be going out and removing those ones as well?

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Couparangus:

 

I think you should make this a Subscriber Only Cache as Juicepig suggested earlier. Then you could move it so that kiddies could not find it. There's too much history behind this cache to let it die. If mort25 choose to spend part of his fortune on a Premium Membership, then that helps Groundspeak and the game of musical containers begins.

 

Tequila

moop

...

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"Like Sands through the Hourglass, so are the days of our cache"

 

Wait wait... I would like to provide Mort25 with my attention too! If we all jump in, we might be able to find his "Attention Requiring" threshold!

 

I love you Mort... its people like you that stir up society. Vigilantes exist in all walks of life. War, Human Rights... Geocaching...

 

Do I agree with you removing this cache? Nah. Not a chance. Does that matter? Will it change your mind? haha.. no. I won't even attempt to address your beliefs on Geocaching, Land Managing, Nature Preserving. That doesn't appear to be the response you seek.

 

All of you here seem to be seeking to change Mort25's mind. Like any other Self-Driven vigilante, there is no cracking this type of mind. My-way-or-the-highway. We've all experienced it in life. Its even come up in Geocaching. Just not in our area so much.

 

CouparAngus, I found this cache, and it is in my top 5 ever. I found it with Earthquake back in my early days of caching and I commend you on your efforts for placing it. Thank you for bringing me to this park. I wouldn't have otherwise ventured into it. Don't be mad at Mort25 for being fundamentally human and experiencing human control flaws. Sometimes people short circuit into believing theirs is the only way.

 

I've met you CA and I know your intentions are honest and true. I know you have no desire to offend or to destroy nature and I agree with you. So I will support you. I've never Met you Mort25, but its clear to see by your words and actions what your intentions and beliefs are. I don't agree with you, so I won't support you.

 

CouparAngus, Add my name to the list of folks who will be on rotation to replace the final on this one. Don't bother with Mort25. I'm sure he is a nice fellow, but we needn't feed the desire for attention. Seek the kindness and caring of the cachers who have no personal agenda. We will Help you.

 

Thank you Mort25, there isn't a need to respond to quote my post for a response back from me. I will not provide my input to this thread and feed the attention seeking any further. Please feel free to email me directly if you wish to talk about it directly with me. swiftone@rogers.com

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The List:

 

(1) Tequila

(2) moop

(3) Swifteroo

 

(4) Juicepig

(5) CouparAngus and his companion Mr. Shotgun :)

 

(6) 2happy2gether

 

I haven't found this cache yet, so my assistance will be for the experience as well. I just hope that you can wait until I reach the 1000 mark because this is a milestone in so many regards.

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The List:

 

(1) Tequila

(2) moop

(3) Swifteroo

 

(4) Juicepig

(5) CouparAngus and his companion Mr. Shotgun :)

 

(6) 2happy2gether

 

I haven't found this cache yet, so my assistance will be for the experience as well. I just hope that you can wait until I reach the 1000 mark because this is a milestone in so many regards.

 

I am doing the cache on Tuesday. So happy, you have until Tuesday to find 319 caches. :)

 

Anyone wishing to join me is more than welcome.

 

Might even bring the bloodhound along in case we have to track someone.

Edited by Tequila
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He he, I offered a "muggle proof" replacement back before this was moved to the forums, so of course I'm in... Besides, I ride in the area almost weekly, so carrying a replacement cache would be easy to do.

 

The List Continues to Grow:

 

(1) Tequila

(2) moop

(3) Swifteroo

(4) Juicepig

(5) CouparAngus and his companion Mr. Shotgun :)

(6) 2happy2gether

(7) TOMTEC

 

Hmm, what time on Tuesday?

 

TOMTEC

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One last pont. You all seem to be down on me for not following the reviewers directions. What about CA? He was advised by either cachedrone or cache tech on this thread to remove the pipes clue if it is infact off the trail, regardless of current use. It is clearly off the marked trail.

Feel free to replace the cache. Feel free to make it a premium member cache. Periodic checks will fix that. I am in the park on a regular basis. I live 10 minutes away.

As for your threat to come and visit me personally CA, please feel free to send me a message, and I will give you my address myself. By the way, what are your plans when you get here? To talk to me? That wont change my mind. If you have other plans, then so be it. I look forward to your visit, as I will relocate the cache each and every time I find it. I wont take your threat personally, or seriously, as I HIGHLY doubt you will follow through. Correction, I KNOW you wont follow through, as you seem to be smarter than that. And don't take that as a compliment, because that is not how it is intended. I did offer to tell you when the cache is moved, but if you want to threaten me, then perhaps I wont. How many frustrated cachers do you think there will be when they go out there expecting to find the cache, but have no luck?

Is this cache really worth this much effort to you? I hope your principles are as strong as mine, because it's worth it to me.

Lets all have some fun, as it appears as though the game of cat and mouse is on!!! It's your move. All of you. Replace it.

See you soon CA!!

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Morty,

 

The very best solution to all of this is for you to just quit geocaching. You've chosen a hobby that you just don't fit into. While all the rest of us are willing to get along and play nice, you're like the bully in the sandbox. You will only play by your own rules, and if nobody wants to play your way, you'll steal their pail and shovel.

 

So take some friendly advice. Quit the hobby now. You certainly don't fit the criteria for a conscientious geocacher, and with your hypocritically pious attitude you never will.

 

You've been told the facts Morty:

- The cache approvers have no problem with the cache

- The land owner has no problem with the cache

 

You are the only one with a problem with the cache. And your opinion (regardless of how important you think you are) simply doesn't count.

 

Oh yes. If anyone chooses to disagree with my opinion... well...tough nuts. My opinion has always been right...is right now, and will forever be right. Nothing you can do or say will ever change my mind and I will continue to be myopic and bury my head in the sand. So there. Sound familiar?! :anicute:

 

And oh yes...I was right the first time...you ARE just a kid!

be6cc03f-57c5-4211-bc7c-4cb418f01012.jpg

Edited by TrimblesTrek
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I think it is time to close this down.

 

Until I have confirmation that this cache, or parts thereof is in an off limits location from Parks Ontario, I am not removing the listing. I am disappointed that one cacher would bully another cacher like this, thats my job. This thread is closed, please do not take it back to the cache page.

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