Ethics question: Gambling cache?

[+osterbe1]

I am a newcomer to the sport of geocaching, but I am very excited to start some of my own caches...many of which will apply some interesting concepts.

 

However, I do need your input on one of my cache ideas. Here's the idea:

 

1) The cache will contain small slips of paper with a picture of a roullette table layout.

2) The finders will circle one of the 38 numbers, and write their name and contact info on the paper.

3) They put the paper, along with $1, in a small envelope. Then they put the envelope in a lockbox (located in the cache).

4) On the specified date, I will take all entries to a casino and place bets on the numbers that the finders selected.

5) Whoever gets lucky gets the winnings mailed to them!

 

I am simply trying to make my first cache something unique and fun for everyone who participates. Of course, if they prefer not to get involved in the gambling aspect, they can just sign the log and trade treasures as usual.

 

So...what does everybody think? Is this a good idea? More importantly, will I be arrested??!!

 

Thanks everybody - I'm excited to get started with this new sport!

[+BlessedBees]

Interesting, but I think cacher #6 will walk off with a $5 prize!

[+fishercz20]

I think it comes down to, would they trust you.

[+osterbe1]

Interesting, but I think cacher #6 will walk off with a $5 prize!

Yeah, I did think of that! The cache will be located on my property, so I will be emptying it daily...hopefully that would deter the urge to make off with the cache!

[+ReadyOrNot]

It sounds like an interesting idea. Any idea that doesn't involve a lamppost is a great idea in my opinion But i highly doubt that it would get published.

[+Too Tall John]

It sounds like an interesting idea. Any idea that doesn't involve a lamppost is a great idea in my opinion But i highly doubt that it would get published.

Check with your reviewer. They might have suggestions as to how to make this work. They also might tell you it can't work, but as long as they do it before you start constructing the lock box for the cash in the cache, that's ok, too...

 

An interesting idea, nonetheless. Keep 'em coming!

[+Rattlebars]

Not likley to get published due to most likely the "Solicit" guidelines:

 

Commercial Caches

 

Commercial caches attempt to use the Geocaching.com web site cache reporting tool directly or indirectly (intentionally or non-intentionally) to solicit customers through a Geocaching.com listing. These are NOT permitted. Examples include for-profit locations that require an entrance fee, or locations that sell products or services. If the finder is required to go inside the business, interact with employees, and/or purchase a product or service, then the cache is presumed to be commercial.

 

Some exceptions can be made. In these situations, permission can be given by Groundspeak. However, permission should be asked first before posting. If you are in doubt, ask first. If you do not have advance permission, your reviewer will refer you to Groundspeak.

 

Caches that Solicit

 

Solicitations are off-limits. For example, caches perceived to be posted for religious, political, charitable or social agendas are not permitted. Geocaching is supposed to be a light, fun activity, not a platform for an agenda.

 

But, hey, it's not mentioned specifically.....

[+Too Tall John]

Not likley to get published due to most likely the "Solicit" guidelines:

Commercial Caches

 

Commercial caches attempt to use the Geocaching.com web site cache reporting tool directly or indirectly (intentionally or non-intentionally) to solicit customers through a Geocaching.com listing. These are NOT permitted. Examples include for-profit locations that require an entrance fee, or locations that sell products or services. If the finder is required to go inside the business, interact with employees, and/or purchase a product or service, then the cache is presumed to be commercial.

 

Some exceptions can be made. In these situations, permission can be given by Groundspeak. However, permission should be asked first before posting. If you are in doubt, ask first. If you do not have advance permission, your reviewer will refer you to Groundspeak.

 

Caches that Solicit

 

Solicitations are off-limits. For example, caches perceived to be posted for religious, political, charitable or social agendas are not permitted. Geocaching is supposed to be a light, fun activity, not a platform for an agenda.

But, hey, it's not mentioned specifically.....

This is true, but how different is this concept than caches that encourage trading of scratch tickets? It is different, but not very...

 

I think you are probably right, but I'm gonna search for arguments to help the OP.

 

Hey, what happens if you go play the money and nobody wins?

[Keystone]

Sorry, but caches like this cannot be published. Thanks for checking before hiding!

[+mini cacher]

Sorry, but caches like this cannot be published. Thanks for checking before hiding!

That is good to know. Also good to know is which part of the guidelines prohibits this type of cache. thanks.

[+briansnat]

So...what does everybody think? Is this a good idea? More importantly, will I be arrested??!!

 

Good idea? Debatable. I think there is too much room for issues to develop. Accusations of you taking the money, or some or all of any winnings for instance. When money is involved friendships and families are torn apart and you ain't even friends or family to these people.

 

Will you be arrested? Probably not, but it depends on local gambling laws. In many (if not most) places if you aren't making money off the scheme, then it's OK. You might even be able to get away with charging "expenses" in some jurisdictions. But gambling laws vary from state to state and even town to town, so there is a chance you might be breaking some law.

[+osterbe1]

Thanks everybody for the many responses. Seems I will have to come up with a different idea for my first cache. I must say I am a bit disappointed because I thought this one would be a lot of fun, but I can understand how it would cause concerns.

 

Also, can someone tell me where to find the "Guidelines" that were quoted earlier in this thread?

[+Isonzo Karst]

Here they are the listing guidelines.

[+egami]

Sorry, but caches like this cannot be published. Thanks for checking before hiding!

 

Just out of curiosity, due to what reasoning? It's just nice to know the "why" behind the "not allowed".

[+sbell111]

Sorry, but caches like this cannot be published. Thanks for checking before hiding!

 

Just out of curiosity, due to what reasoning? It's just nice to know the "why" behind the "not allowed".

I suspect for the same reason there are no alcohol caches allowed. It would be illegal to allow a child to participate, but the cache owner couldn't prevent it. It's about the chidlren (or however that was misspelled).

[Keystone]

From the listing guidelines:

 

We also assume that your cache placement complies with all applicable laws. If an obvious legal issue is present, or is brought to our attention, your listing may be immediately archived.

 

There are laws regulating gambling in many locations, including promotion of gambling on the internet. Rather than keep track of numerous laws or else risk penalties -- regardless of whether such laws would actually be enforced for a $100 gambling contest -- it is easier to just say "no" to all gambling caches.

 

"Poker run" caches, where prizes are donated by the organizer or sponsors? Fine.

Poker game where each player antes up $20 into a "pot?" Can't be listed here.

Edited November 21, 2007 by Keystone

[+egami]

From the listing guidelines:

 

We also assume that your cache placement complies with all applicable laws. If an obvious legal issue is present, or is brought to our attention, your listing may be immediately archived.

 

There are laws regulating gambling in many locations, including promotion of gambling on the internet. Rather than keep track of numerous laws or else risk penalties -- regardless of whether such laws would actually be enforced for a $100 gambling contest -- it is easier to just say "no" to all gambling caches.

 

"Poker run" caches, where prizes are donated by the organizer or sponsors? Fine.

Poker game where each player antes up $20 into a "pot?" Can't be listed here.

 

Thanks, Key!

[+steve p]

Hey, what happens if you go play the money and nobody wins?

I think because all 38 numbers of the cache's paper roulette wheel would have been "bet" or circled by the cache finders. There wouldn't be a number that wasn't played.

[+Kit Fox]

Besides the gambling issue, how many cachers would knowlingly give their personal information to a complete stranger? The answer is not many.

[+Cedar Grove Seekers]

"Poker run" caches, where prizes are donated by the organizer or sponsors? Fine.

Poker game where each player antes up $20 into a "pot?" Can't be listed here.

 

OP, why don't you just do a roulette cache for fun. People don't have to pay a $1 but just pick a number when they log the cache. Give a donated prize to the winner. You could still visit a casino to get the result of spin, or just use a random number generator.

[+osterbe1]

"Poker run" caches, where prizes are donated by the organizer or sponsors? Fine.

Poker game where each player antes up $20 into a "pot?" Can't be listed here.

 

OP, why don't you just do a roulette cache for fun. People don't have to pay a $1 but just pick a number when they log the cache. Give a donated prize to the winner. You could still visit a casino to get the result of spin, or just use a random number generator.

I like that idea! I could list the day that the roullette number will be selected. Then all of the seekers will know that they have to find the cache before that day if they want to play. I will post the winning number on the site and the lucky winner gets the prize. Thanks for the input!