FRS radios

[+waterwitch2]

Is channel 2 the same frequency for all brands. For example, can I use my Uniden on channel 2 and talk to someone with a Motorola who's on channel 2?

[+StarBrand]

yes

[+scuba dude]

yes

 

Can't give a much better answer.

[+TrailGators]

Be aware that there are sub-channels on some models. So someone may have channel 2, but they would have to tune into 2.0 to talk to you if your model does not have sub-channels.

[+Too Tall John]

yes

Can't give a much better answer.

Be aware that there are sub-channels on some models. So someone may have channel 2, but they would have to tune into 2.0 to talk to you if your model does not have sub-channels.

...unless it's that.

[+wandering4cache]

Do geocachers actually FRS radios to talk to other cachers? I can't imagine finding another cacher in a 2 mile radius, never mind one who has a FRS with them.

 

Its been a few years since we've even used ours. And I never heard any other people ever talking on them except people we planned to talk with.

 

Are they used at mega-meets? Should I dig them out for next May & bring them to CA? Oh, goodie. MORE gadgets to pack & carry around. lol

Edited November 20, 2007 by wandering4cache

[+TrailGators]

Do geocachers actually FRS radios to talk to other cachers? I can't imagine finding another cacher in a 2 mile radius, never mind one who has a FRS with them.

FRS is the common type. GRMS is the less common type with wider range. You need an FCC permit to operate it outside the FRS bands (higher power levels). If you are caching in the desert GRMS is very handy. You could easily be a few miles apart from another cacher/group. Plus if something happens it's good to have something with more range.

[+hydnsek]

Do geocachers actually FRS radios to talk to other cachers? I can't imagine finding another cacher in a 2 mile radius, never mind one who has a FRS with them.

 

Its been a few years since we've even used ours. And I never heard any other people ever talking on them except people we planned to talk with.

 

Are they used at mega-meets? Should I dig them out for next May & bring them to CA? Oh, goodie. MORE gadgets to pack & carry around. lol

Yep, we use them in Washington when we are out group caching, esp. on Cache Machines. For everyday runs, though, not so much.

 

If folks have different brands of FRS radios, be sure nobody has theirs set to a subchannel (as TrailGators said, make sure it's 2.0), or you may not be able to communicate clearly. Whenever we have problems with static, channel squealing, or garbled messages, it usually turns out to be a subchannel issue (or low batteries or distance or those pesky hills....).

[+The Jester]

Do geocachers actually FRS radios to talk to other cachers? I can't imagine finding another cacher in a 2 mile radius, never mind one who has a FRS with them.

 

Its been a few years since we've even used ours. And I never heard any other people ever talking on them except people we planned to talk with.

 

Are they used at mega-meets? Should I dig them out for next May & bring them to CA? Oh, goodie. MORE gadgets to pack & carry around. lol

Yep, we use them in Washington when we are out group caching, esp. on Cache Machines. For everyday runs, though, not so much.

 

If folks have different brands of FRS radios, be sure nobody has theirs set to a subchannel (as TrailGators said, make sure it's 2.0), or you may not be able to communicate clearly. Whenever we have problems with static, channel squealing, or garbled messages, it usually turns out to be a subchannel issue (or low batteries or distance or those pesky hills....).

Or some "joker" has turned his scramble on just to mess with folks...

[+EScout]

The "subchannels" are actually tone squelches, which means that your radio will not hear someone on your channel if your radio is not set to the same sub-audio tone that the other radio is sending. The problem is that different brands may number these tones differently. So you have to look in the manuals and see if they all match.

 

Speaking of channels.....Waterwitch2 has as his avatar, a chart of the San Pedro Channel, chart #18746.....

[+bigryry]

GRMS is the less common type with wider range. You need an FCC permit to operate it outside the FRS bands (higher power levels). If you are caching in the desert GRMS is very handy. You could easily be a few miles apart from another cacher/group. Plus if something happens it's good to have something with more range.

 

I have a GRMS it is a motorola t9500 I beive it the distanc is ten miles, I do have a FCC permit ($80 a year) I bought the radios bought my permit, used them 4x's this week for deer hunting and the range seemed to be maybe .75 miles not even close to ten miles and when i called motorola they said that distance is tested in a desert that is flat with nothing in the way, so I quess i am telling you to watch what you are using it for if it will be used for other things like this it may not be worth the cost in certain area's

Edited November 20, 2007 by bigryry

[+SanityEndsHere]

Is FRS the same frequency used for car/ truck CB's?

[+The Jester]

Is FRS the same frequency used for car/ truck CB's?

Nope, different frequency bands.

[+Walt Jabsco]

The area my cache is hidden is used by our local Search and Rescue Team to train their dogs every Saturday. They send people out in the woods, then use the dogs to go find them. So if someone gets lost finding my cache, they'll probably get picked up the next Saturday I run into them all the time out there, and they use the FRS/GRMS radios, so I started carrying mine.

[+Thrak]

I've used them exactly one time caching. The cache was a multi that went along an upper trail and a lower trail. You needed two people to do it and one went along the upper trail and found various coordinates to relay to the person on the lower trail while the person on the lower trail found various coordinates to relay to the person on the upper trail. You eventually both ended up at the same point where the cache was located. Radios were essential.

[Team CDCB]

I've used them exactly one time caching. The cache was a multi that went along an upper trail and a lower trail. You needed two people to do it and one went along the upper trail and found various coordinates to relay to the person on the lower trail while the person on the lower trail found various coordinates to relay to the person on the upper trail. You eventually both ended up at the same point where the cache was located. Radios were essential.

That's sounds like a pretty cool cache!

 

I've occasionally brought a radio along, but very rarely. And I've NEVER run into someone caching with a radio.

[crawil]

We did an off-road vehicle power run last year with 2 trucks. We used the FRS to communicate between us all day long. Worked great.

 

Other than that, we can usually use cell phones or shout. We don't tend to get separated much.

[+TotemLake]

Cell phone coverage has always been iffy in the mountain ranges we have in Wasghington so the FRS/GMRS radios have always been recommended as backup to anything else anybody might carry. Some of us carry 2 in case a party arrives without theirs. I now carry a HAM because I have no problem touching a repeater no matter how remote I am in this state.

[+ArcherDragoon]

I have been looking into getting a couple FRS...what do you guys recommend for brands/models/features...etc???

 

Thanks,

ArcherDragoon

[+The Jester]

I have been looking into getting a couple FRS...what do you guys recommend for brands/models/features...etc???

 

Thanks,

ArcherDragoon

Get the Garmin Rino - it has both FRS/GMRS radio and GPSr.

 

I'd make sure that the units have the subcodes/squelch tones. They are used quite a bit.

 

Look for channel scanning that also scans the squelch tones. It's nice to know that they are on channel 8, but with 38 squelch tones to go thru it may be hard to "find" them. (This based on the fact that on squelch tone 0 - no squelch tone actually - you can hear all parties on the channel but they won't hear you if they have a squelch tone set)

 

I like the units that use replaceable batteries. It's a pain when the batteries die and you aren't at a place where you can recharge them. Also, if they can accept external power they are great in cars as you don't have to worry about them going dead.

[+Blaidd-Drwg]

A common use in my area is during weekend long cache events. Here you will have many different groups running around in the woods. The FRS radios are great for making general announcements, and also provide a 'Call a Friend' network that will often have someone in range.

 

I replaced the speaker in an FRS radio with two LEDs. When someone keyed a radio on the same frequency, the LEDs would blink along with their voices. I used this as a night cache and had folks sing into their FRS radio, while looking for the blinking LEDs. It was a lot of fun watching and listening to folks in the woods singing loudly. Unfortunately, the battery life isn't long enough to use this as a permanent cache. This setup proved that most FRS radios are interchangeable, if tuned to the same base frequency.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

I have been looking into getting a couple FRS...what do you guys recommend for brands/models/features...etc???

 

Thanks,

ArcherDragoon

 

Forget FRS/GMRS, get a ham ticket! Aside from much more reliable communications the Amateur Radio Service opens a whole world of fun and useful capabilities.

 

An Amateur Radio License is $15. for 10 years, and opens the door to a wide range of much better communication options, making the GMRS license even more of a a really bad deal.

 

Yes, you have to pass a test, but 12 year-olds regularly pass it all over the country.

 

All of these radios operate basically line-of-sight, in reality the range varies wildly, however the effective range of FRS/GMRS will always be a small fraction of a 2-meter HT (Handi-Talkie or portable radio) and there is not much difference in the cost. I paid $70 for my last set of Motorola FRS/GMRS radios and only $80 for my ICOM T-90a Tri-band HT. Used HTs sell daily on eBay for $25. or so.

 

If I can't hit you with a rock the Motorola's ("Guaranteed 17-mile Range!") probably can't reach you, whereas the T-90a is good for miles.

 

The beauty of ham radio is that there are very few FRS repeaters, and they transmit at very low power with very inefficient antennas, whereas ham radios transmit at higher power with better antennas, and repeaters cover most of the US.

 

FRS/GMRS mostly operate Simplex, meaning that both radios transmit and receive on the same frequency. For comminications on relatively flat land within 1 mile that sometimes works okay.

 

Amateur HT radios often operate in Duplex using Repeaters. Herein lies the magic of 2-meter (VHF) ham radio! You transmit at, say, 5 watts and a Repeater on a tower on a mountain 10 miles away receives your weak signal on the transmitted frequency and retransmits it at 100 watts on an extremely efficient antenna on a different frequency... all of the sudden your little hand-held radio has coverage over literally hundreds of square miles (the 'footprint' or coverage area of the repeater)!

 

I keep a boxful of FRS/GMRS radios, I have 8 sets (16 radios) of various brands, capabilities and features. I use them for several things, mostly geocaching but sometimes for public service and disaster relief. When I am going out caching with a group I pass them out so we can stay in touch. If you have a wagon-train (several cars traveling together) or a group that's spread out in the woods communication via radio is quite handy, an invaluable in areas where cell phones don't work.

 

Being a ham operator and expecting better things, the FRS/GMRS radios rarely fail to disappoint me.

 

I was on a Search and Rescue team in Villa Rica Georgia a couple of weeks ago where a lot of volunteers had been called in. Almost no one had radios. I gave the Search Coordinator one of my 2-meter HTs and gave each of the 8 search teams an FRS/GMRS radio. We searched an area approximately 1 mile wide by 2 miles long, heavily wooded hilly terrain, and I lost contact with the search teams almost as soon as they were out of sight. Since they were close to each other, and the Search Coordinator was among them, the teams could talk among themselves, but since cell phones didn't work there they had no contact with the outside world except through the Search Coordinator's radio back to my mobile (truck) radio at the police Command Center. Every time one of the teams got disoriented or saw something suspicious they radioed the SC who made a decision if LEOs needed to come look at it; if so he called me on the HT to confer with the police command staff. As the day progressed teams got further apart and began to lose communications with each other and to use up their batteries (the much more efficient HT battery never failed). I had to keep moving the truck along a parallel road to stay in touch with the FRS/GMRS groups, whereas I could talk with the SC from anywhere (we were using the repeater of a nearby city's ham club, 14 miles from the search site). At about 1:30 pm the teams were exiting the woods onto a paved road to re-group when one team commented on the FRS/GMRS that there was no point looking in a certain brushy creek bed, it would be a waste of time. I heard the transmission, the SC could not, so I asked his opinion; he said search it anyway, and sure enough there was our man (17 y.o. Ben Stanford, Grandson of Alabama Senator Jim Preuitt, self-inflicted gunshot). If it had been up to just the FRS/GMRS radios he would still be missing.

 

Anyone wishing for more info on ham radio see www.arrl.org or contact me W4AGA@arrl.net

 

FRS/GMRS is still the most popular radio in geocaching, but only because folks haven't come to learn how easy and inexpensive it is to get a ham license and an HT, not because the FRS/GMRS offers any kind of decent service.

 

73 de W4AGA (Which means "so long and best regards from Ed, Whiskey For the Alabama Geocachers Association"!)

[+The Jester]

If it had been up to just the FRS/GMRS radios he would still be missing.

I know you don't really mean what this seems to say. It wasn't the FRS/GMRS radio's decision to not search the gulley...

 

Ham radio is great (I let my license lapse way back...) but you can't beat the use of FRS/GMRS radios for small group communication. You can't (as you do with FRS) hand out ham radio's to everybody. Each type has it limitations, work within those and the radio's do what they should.

[+Glenn]

Cell phone coverage has always been iffy in the mountain ranges we have in Wasghington so the FRS/GMRS radios have always been recommended as backup to anything else anybody might carry. Some of us carry 2 in case a party arrives without theirs. I now carry a HAM because I have no problem touching a repeater no matter how remote I am in this state.

 

TotemLake, is your HT able to send APRS positioning data? If it is you can connect your GPSr to your HT and you are able to be tracked in real time by anyone with internet access at websites like FindU. Also, if you have a D-STAR HT you and someone is acting as a D-PRS gateway you can use your D-STAR HT to do the same thing. The Palomar Amateur Radio Club has

describing basically how this works.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

If it had been up to just the FRS/GMRS radios he would still be missing.

I know you don't really mean what this seems to say. It wasn't the FRS/GMRS radio's decision to not search the gulley...

Actually I meant exactly what I said... the search team would have gone on about it's business and the boy would still be there in a 'searched' area because the team didn't have enough radio to reach the Search Coordinator to get a decision - by which I am simply pointing out that FRS/GMRS is of such limited value that it should never be counted on for anything more than casual play, which is all that it was designed for.

[+The Jester]

If it had been up to just the FRS/GMRS radios he would still be missing.

I know you don't really mean what this seems to say. It wasn't the FRS/GMRS radio's decision to not search the gulley...

Actually I meant exactly what I said... the search team would have gone on about it's business and the boy would still be there in a 'searched' area because the team didn't have enough radio to reach the Search Coordinator to get a decision - by which I am simply pointing out that FRS/GMRS is of such limited value that it should never be counted on for anything more than casual play, which is all that it was designed for.

I think you are missing the humor - the radios didn't make the decision, the search teams that had the radios did (or would have).

 

But you are right, FRS (Family Radio Service - the name says a lot) radios are not meant for long distance communications.

 

One limitation of ham radios is the low percentage of cachers that are hams.

[+TotemLake]

Cell phone coverage has always been iffy in the mountain ranges we have in Wasghington so the FRS/GMRS radios have always been recommended as backup to anything else anybody might carry. Some of us carry 2 in case a party arrives without theirs. I now carry a HAM because I have no problem touching a repeater no matter how remote I am in this state.

 

TotemLake, is your HT able to send APRS positioning data? If it is you can connect your GPSr to your HT and you are able to be tracked in real time by anyone with internet access at websites like FindU. Also, if you have a D-STAR HT you and someone is acting as a D-PRS gateway you can use your D-STAR HT to do the same thing. The Palomar Amateur Radio Club has

describing basically how this works.

I didn't know APRS existed when I bought my radio. It does not have that feature.

[+Team Cotati]

Is channel 2 the same frequency for all brands. For example, can I use my Uniden on channel 2 and talk to someone with a Motorola who's on channel 2?

 

Yes.

 

Say, does anyone know where to obtain all of the compoenets required to construct your own FRS transeiever? Also, are there any detail instructions w/drawings and part numbers available? Thanks.

Edited November 23, 2007 by Team Cotati

[+egami]

Say, does anyone know where to obtain all of the compoenets required to construct your own FRS transeiever? Also, are there any detail instructions w/drawings and part numbers available? Thanks.

 

Radio Shack, probably. I would bet some Googling would net you the answer. The problem you're going to run into is that something you build will be in violation of FCC rules.

[+Team Cotati]

Say, does anyone know where to obtain all of the compoenets required to construct your own FRS transeiever? Also, are there any detail instructions w/drawings and part numbers available? Thanks.

 

Radio Shack, probably. I would bet some Googling would net you the answer. The problem you're going to run into is that something you build will be in violation of FCC rules.

 

And why is that true?

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

Cell phone coverage has always been iffy in the mountain ranges we have in Wasghington so the FRS/GMRS radios have always been recommended as backup to anything else anybody might carry. Some of us carry 2 in case a party arrives without theirs. I now carry a HAM because I have no problem touching a repeater no matter how remote I am in this state.

 

TotemLake, is your HT able to send APRS positioning data? If it is you can connect your GPSr to your HT and you are able to be tracked in real time by anyone with internet access at websites like FindU. Also, if you have a D-STAR HT you and someone is acting as a D-PRS gateway you can use your D-STAR HT to do the same thing. The Palomar Amateur Radio Club has

describing basically how this works.

I didn't know APRS existed when I bought my radio. It does not have that feature.

Get (or build) a device called a TNC and you can plug your GPS (and computer!) into any ham radio.

 

For info only: http://universal-radio.com/catalog/tnc.html

[+egami]

Say, does anyone know where to obtain all of the compoenets required to construct your own FRS transeiever? Also, are there any detail instructions w/drawings and part numbers available? Thanks.

 

Radio Shack, probably. I would bet some Googling would net you the answer. The problem you're going to run into is that something you build will be in violation of FCC rules.

 

And why is that true?

 

Because the FCC, by nature, has to approve any device that is manufatured and sold in US for it to be legal (clarification: any device operated has to operate within these guidelines regardless of maker). I am sure you could pay money to get it tested and approved though...but I don't think you'd want to see that bill arrive.

 

Not that you couldn't get away with it...people use illegally modified equipment all over...I am just saying, technically, by default, it would not be legal.

Edited November 23, 2007 by egami

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

Say, does anyone know where to obtain all of the compoenets required to construct your own FRS transeiever? Also, are there any detail instructions w/drawings and part numbers available? Thanks.

 

Radio Shack, probably. I would bet some Googling would net you the answer. The problem you're going to run into is that something you build will be in violation of FCC rules.

 

Building your own radios and supporting devices has always been at the heart of all radio. Modern radios are mostly digital and there's not much you can do with them internally except for some performance mods, but you can still build and operate radios quite easily.

 

The FCC does have operating guidelines, but only if you are going to sell the radio as a retail item will you need FCC type-acceptance, otherwise 'homebrewing' radios is a fine hobby!

 

In fact I have a ham event planned for this spring where I will dump parts on tables and hams will build their own radio, amplifier and antenna on Saturday and have a DX (making long-distance contacts) competition that night!

 

Part 99 of the FCC rules is detailed on the arrl.org and FCC.gov websites, basically your only restrictions are upon what bands you can transmit and with how much power on a given frequency. For FRS/GMRS there are some restrictions on what type of antenna you can use (to purposefully limit FRS/GMRS efficiency).

 

Build a radio that transmits on the approved frequencies at the approved wattage (it's different for FRS and GMRS) and you can build a truly effective FRS/GMRS radio very easily... a much better one than you can buy!

 

Keep in mind that the secret to ALL radio is the antenna, not the power! You can easily talk to the space shuttle or around the world on 3 watts if you have the proper antenna!

 

FYI: Never confuse FRS/GMRS or amateur radio with CB (11 meter Citizen Band); that's a whole different and quite often ugly world where cheap radios, punk antennas and illegal noisy linear power amplifiers rule the frequency band, not to mention the many bottom-feeder unlicensed and untrained radio operators spewing their hatred and dysfunction onto the radio waves, who have destroyed what was a good idea (and which was the predecessor to the FRS/GMRS bands, as well as American's first opportunity to communicate totally anonymously). The misuse of CB is why power and antenna size is restricted on FRS/GMRS, and is why I recommend ham as an alternative to FRS/GMRS instead of CB walkie-talkies, and ham radio over FRS/GMRS. CB walkie talkies are more efficient and in many ways 'better' than FRS/GMRS for short-range communications, but listening to the junk spewed on those frequencies makes it undesirable.

 

For that matter you don't need to build a radio, take any FRS/GMRS radio and change to an effective antenna and you will be amazed what it can do!

[+egami]

I didn't say it wasn't legal...I said that it's likely not within FCC guidelines. The average Joe who hasn't done this isn't going to know how to make sure their device is operating within the guidelines. And last time I looked, most of the internet sites I found seemed to be illegal mods or questionable sources in terms of integrity regarding FCC guidelines.

 

Do you not have to operate within guidelines with HAM? Last I checked I am pretty sure all radio transmissions had to operate with FCC guidelines if you were within their governing territory.

Edited November 23, 2007 by egami

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

I didn't say it wasn't legal...I said that it's likely not within FCC guidelines. The average Joe who hasn't done this isn't going to know how to make sure their device is operating within the guidelines.

This isn't the place to debate that, but I will say for our reader's benefit that your assumption is totally incorrect, and when I return from an errand I will send you an email with many links to prove it!

 

In fact the FCC does not regulate amateur radio, we ham operators do, and the FCC publishes and enforces conventions and practices that the ham (Amateur Radio Service) community derives for ourselves by common consensus!

 

It's one of the few areas of government truly derived by and for the citizens!

 

A frequency counter and an SWR/Power meter, both of which a child can (and regularly do) build or buy is the only test equipment for a homebrew radio that you need to assure that you are within approved transmitting guidelines.

[+egami]

No need to PM me...just post the link here in case anyone else has questions. I don't follow radios that closely, I just live near a guy that does HAM and was formerly employed by FCC (or worked with them in some facet maybe in the business arena) and he implied to me that ultimately, at some level, the FCC has regulations for all bands...maybe I misunderstood.

 

At any rate, on the FRS radio which is what originated this...it appears that there are FCC rules of operating for FRS radios: http://www.provide.net/~prsg/frs-faq.htm#Q5

 

My main point being that the last time I was looking at building a radio on the net it appeared to me that I stumbled across a fair number of guides that looked suspect in terms of compliance and knowing the propensity of regular AM operators to do a lot suspect mods I assumed that there is some of that, even if at a small level, in the other radio areas....although, admittedly this guy I know said HAM guys are generally upstanding, good guys that use HAM to help in all kinds of efforts as well as having integrity in radio operation.

 

Maybe you know where he can get a guide to build one of these? I have thought about actually building one for FRS too at one point, but it seemed easier to just modify one to have better range and reception....feel free to post any links or sites that would have good info.

Edited November 23, 2007 by egami

[+TotemLake]

Cell phone coverage has always been iffy in the mountain ranges we have in Wasghington so the FRS/GMRS radios have always been recommended as backup to anything else anybody might carry. Some of us carry 2 in case a party arrives without theirs. I now carry a HAM because I have no problem touching a repeater no matter how remote I am in this state.

 

TotemLake, is your HT able to send APRS positioning data? If it is you can connect your GPSr to your HT and you are able to be tracked in real time by anyone with internet access at websites like FindU. Also, if you have a D-STAR HT you and someone is acting as a D-PRS gateway you can use your D-STAR HT to do the same thing. The Palomar Amateur Radio Club has

describing basically how this works.

I didn't know APRS existed when I bought my radio. It does not have that feature.

Get (or build) a device called a TNC and you can plug your GPS (and computer!) into any ham radio.

 

For info only: http://universal-radio.com/catalog/tnc.html

Looks pretty ungainly for backpacking which is what I would be using it for.

[+chris2537]

Ham Radio Rules!

 

73s

KC9LJT

Edited November 24, 2007 by chris2537

[+Glenn]

Cell phone coverage has always been iffy in the mountain ranges we have in Wasghington so the FRS/GMRS radios have always been recommended as backup to anything else anybody might carry. Some of us carry 2 in case a party arrives without theirs. I now carry a HAM because I have no problem touching a repeater no matter how remote I am in this state.

 

TotemLake, is your HT able to send APRS positioning data? If it is you can connect your GPSr to your HT and you are able to be tracked in real time by anyone with internet access at websites like FindU. Also, if you have a D-STAR HT you and someone is acting as a D-PRS gateway you can use your D-STAR HT to do the same thing. The Palomar Amateur Radio Club has

describing basically how this works.

I didn't know APRS existed when I bought my radio. It does not have that feature.

Get (or build) a device called a TNC and you can plug your GPS (and computer!) into any ham radio.

 

For info only: http://universal-radio.com/catalog/tnc.html

Looks pretty ungainly for backpacking which is what I would be using it for.

 

If you are looking for something smaller when look at the FoxTrak or the MicroTrak.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

Or get a radio made for the task! I love my APRS HT, it may be the perfect communications tool for geocaching (and much more!)

 

Example http://www.kenwood.com/i/products/info/amateur/thd7ae.html