New Proposal - temp caches

[+StarBrand]

Now that OpinionNate has spoken for HQ........

 

How about an alternate way to log temp caches at Events.

 

This should be viewed as an "ease of use" proposal for users. Makes it easier to use the site.

 

Allow the cache Event owner to setup the addtional waypoints using the Addtional Waypoints feature.

 

Then when users log it - they will get an option like this:

 

Then they will have a new stat categoy that is a simple count of temp caches they found.

 

The log entry comments for the Event can be ammended automatically with "Found the following temp caches while attending event".

 

I have brought this up before with very little comment on it.

[+sbell111]

I'm pretty sure that Jeremy has posted in a thread for a similar feature that it aint gonna happen.

[+StarBrand]

Could also be useful for multicaches and virtually any other cache with multiple points to it. Simple way to record that you made it to all those addtional locations.

 

Still allows ANY user to knock their socks off logging the cache.

[+TrailGators]

To be honest it seems like it would be facilitating something that TPTB don't really agree with but aren't going to lose sleep over.

[+StarBrand]

To be honest it seems like it would be facilitating something that TPTB don't really agree with but aren't going to lose sleep over.

No No - you are looking at all wrong. No angst here.

 

You have to agree this would save a lot of time for cachers - right??

 

It would save space on the servers - right?

 

It would allow greater accuracy in the records - right?

 

It would make reading event logs easier - right?

 

This proposal is all about service - taking care of cachers...........

[+TrailGators]

To be honest it seems like it would be facilitating something that TPTB don't really agree with but aren't going to lose sleep over.

No No - you are looking at all wrong. No angst here.

 

You have to agree this would save a lot of time for cachers - right??

 

It would save space on the servers - right?

 

It would allow greater accuracy in the records - right?

 

It would make reading event logs easier - right?

 

This proposal is all about service - taking care of cachers...........

Yes, accuracy would be much better. It's nice to know who's attended 2000 events. I don't know where they get the time to go to that many events...

[+Renegade Knight]

It would solve my main objection to multi logging events. I do like the idea.

 

The new rant will be this.

 

"If they logged it as a temp cache at the event, can they also log it again as a stand alone cache?" (No, that's double dipping)

 

I'm thinking One Cache One Find No Way to Even Log a 2nd find is cleaner overall.

Edited November 14, 2007 by Renegade Knight

[+tozainamboku]

Groundspeak has made the decision that temporary caches are not listed on this site for various reasons. However, an event can have temporary caches for people to find at the event. IMO, you can even list the coordinates for the temporary caches using the additional waypoint capability.

 

Groundspeak provides a capability for cachers to log their geocaching experiences online. You can log that Found a geocache or that you Could Not Find a geocache. You can log that you Attended an event.

 

Groundspeak has decided that the cache/event owner is responsible for their cache listing; and the responsibility of your listing includes quality control of posts to the cache page. Delete any logs that appear to be bogus, counterfeit, off topic, or not within the stated requirements.

 

Groundspeak reports a count of the number of Found It and Attended logs you have posted. This allows a cache to keep track of their own finds and gives a rough idea to others of a cacher's experience. It is not intended to be used as a "geocaching" score to determine who is the winner.

 

As far as I can tell, Groundspeak is not interested in making changes to the guidelines or the logging mechanism for the purpose of supporting or limiting how people log caches unless TPTB determine this to be unreasonable, ridiculous, or abusive. Instead of using the Geocaching.com Web Site forums for making stupid suggestions that aren't going to be implemented, you might first try to come up with convincing arguments that there is a problem with the status quo. Perhaps you believe that use of the Attended log to count temporary caches at events had grown to the point where it is now unreasonable, ridiculous, or abusive. You will need to convince TPTB of this before you suggesting what they should do about it.

[+TrailGators]

It's nice to know who's attended 2000 events.

[+ReadyOrNot]

I say open it up 100%. Get rid of the smileys all together and make everything a note.

[+TrailGators]

I say open it up 100%. Get rid of the smileys all together and make everything a note.

Smileys get the caches you've found out of your PQs. That's the reason I never log notes. I guess I could log a note and then ignore the cache, but that is extra work. All they have to get let us hide our counts. They are meaningless to everyone else. People argue that the count gives you an experience level if someone DNFs a cache. Experience at finding what? Easy temp caches?

[+ReadyOrNot]

I say open it up 100%. Get rid of the smileys all together and make everything a note.

Smileys get the caches you've found out of your PQs. That's the reason I never log notes. I guess I could log a note and then ignore the cache, but that is extra work. All they have to get let us hide our counts. They are meaningless to everyone else. People argue that the count gives you an experience level if someone DNFs a cache. Experience at finding what? Easy temp caches?

 

Bring this discussion over to the other thread that I created. To be on topic: Sure, let's make it easier to make temp caches. I've got some caches that weren't approved for various reasons. I could bypass the review process this way.

[+TrailGators]

I say open it up 100%. Get rid of the smileys all together and make everything a note.

Smileys get the caches you've found out of your PQs. That's the reason I never log notes. I guess I could log a note and then ignore the cache, but that is extra work. All they have to get let us hide our counts. They are meaningless to everyone else. People argue that the count gives you an experience level if someone DNFs a cache. Experience at finding what? Easy temp caches?

 

Bring this discussion over to the other thread that I created. To be on topic: Sure, let's make it easier to make temp caches. I've got some caches that weren't approved for various reasons. I could bypass the review process this way.

I'm sure you would love reading all the logs on your temp cache. You would have hundreds of logs that would say "found temp."

[+ArcherDragoon]

Hey,

 

As a Temp Cache Logger...(calm down, calm down )...I like the idea. It would be great to seperate out my Permanent Caches and Temorary Caches easier with a new category. But, as stated in previous posts in the thread, I don't think that will happen any time soon.

 

But, again, great idea!!! So, that is it for me...on topic, to the point and from the other side of the fence...

 

Later,

ArcherDragoon

[+tozainamboku]

Temporary caches are just one activity that could take place at an event. You could have a three-legged race, a hot dog eating contests, or even a moon bounce for the kids. Event owners are simply trying to encourage people to participate in the activities they have planned for their event. They are allowing people to get extra smileys for each activity they participated in. It just like given out party favors (only geocachers love to get party favors to use a swag in caches). It's not only events. I've seen cache owners give out bonus finds for doing an extra activity when you find a physical cache. Sometime the bonus is the coordinates for another cache - one that is not listed on geocaching.com.

 

I don't think that OpionNate's comments in the other thread were an indication that is is OK to log temporary caches, private caches, or any non-GC caches. Instead it was basically a restatement that a cache or event owner is responsible for policing the logs on their own caches. If a cache owner wants to give out bonus smileys, GC.com is not going to stop it unless this practice would have a serious impact on geocaching. For example, if landowner complained to geocaching.com that a bonus activity involved trespassing or was damaging their property, I suspect the cache would be archived or at least disabled until the cache owner either removed the bonus or corrected the problem with it. So far temporary caches at events - while not meeting the permanence guideline and possible not meeting saturation guidelines - have not been shown to be caches placed in otherwise forbidden locations. The fact that the cache is removed at the end of the day may in fact allow a park that normally doesn't allow caches to give permission for a temporary cache. So long as the activities at an event are legal and appropriate for a geocaching event, TPTB are not going to stop event owners from giving out bonus smileys.

[+Renegade Knight]

...Bring this discussion over to the other thread that I created. To be on topic: Sure, let's make it easier to make temp caches. I've got some caches that weren't approved for various reasons. I could bypass the review process this way.

 

Event only temp caches would have the same level of review that they do now, with or without the ability to log them on this site.

[+TrailGators]

Temporary caches are just one activity that could take place at an event. You could have a three-legged race, a hot dog eating contests, or even a moon bounce for the kids. Event owners are simply trying to encourage people to participate in the activities they have planned for their event. They are allowing people to get extra smileys for each activity they participated in. It just like given out party favors.

Honestly, what is so great about getting a smiley for participating in a three-legged race? I've been to picnics where we did all that stuff. If someone told me to create a log for each thing I did on some website, I would tell them to take a hike. What fun is that? But maybe this odd practice could be put to good use! My backyard fence needs painting. I'll let someone log 500 smileys for painting it!

[+sbell111]

Temporary caches are just one activity that could take place at an event. You could have a three-legged race, a hot dog eating contests, or even a moon bounce for the kids. Event owners are simply trying to encourage people to participate in the activities they have planned for their event. They are allowing people to get extra smileys for each activity they participated in. It just like given out party favors.

Honestly, what is so great about getting a smiley for participating in a three-legged race? I've been to picnics where we did all that stuff. If someone told me to create a log for each thing I did on some website, I would tell them to take a hike. What fun is that? But maybe this odd practice could be put to good use! My backyard fence needs painting. I'll let someone log 500 smileys for painting it!

I don't remember seeing any post that states that smileys have been given out for three legged racing. Could you point the post and the associated event out to me?

 

Thanks in advance.

Edited November 15, 2007 by sbell111

[+TrailGators]

Temporary caches are just one activity that could take place at an event. You could have a three-legged race, a hot dog eating contests, or even a moon bounce for the kids. Event owners are simply trying to encourage people to participate in the activities they have planned for their event. They are allowing people to get extra smileys for each activity they participated in. It just like given out party favors.

Honestly, what is so great about getting a smiley for participating in a three-legged race? I've been to picnics where we did all that stuff. If someone told me to create a log for each thing I did on some website, I would tell them to take a hike. What fun is that? But maybe this odd practice could be put to good use! My backyard fence needs painting. I'll let someone log 500 smileys for painting it!

I don't remember seeing any post that states that smileys have been given out for three legged racing. Could you point the post and the associated event out to me?

 

Thanks in advance.

How about the one I responded to.....

 

Now does anyone want to paint my fence for 500 smileys!?

Edited November 15, 2007 by TrailGators

[+tozainamboku]

Temporary caches are just one activity that could take place at an event. You could have a three-legged race, a hot dog eating contests, or even a moon bounce for the kids. Event owners are simply trying to encourage people to participate in the activities they have planned for their event. They are allowing people to get extra smileys for each activity they participated in. It just like given out party favors.

Honestly, what is so great about getting a smiley for participating in a three-legged race? I've been to picnics where we did all that stuff. If someone told me to create a log for each thing I did on some website, I would tell them to take a hike. What fun is that? But maybe this odd practice could be put to good use! My backyard fence needs painting. I'll let someone log 500 smileys for painting it!

I don't remember seeing any post that states that smileys have been given out for three legged racing. Could you point the post and the associated event out to me?

 

Thanks in advance.

How about the one I responded to.....

 

Now does anyone want to paint my fence for 500 smileys!?

Well I started to reply that for 500 smileys I would drive down to Escondido but then I looked a the price of gasoline

 

I'm not sure if I could find an event where the host offered bonuses for participating in the 3-legged race or the hot dog eating contest, but I have seen caches where you are invited to log a bonus Found It if you post a picture of yourself standing on your head. The point I was trying to make is that temporary caches are simply another activity you could have at your event (as would a hike on a trail that had some permanent approved geocaches). I don't think TPTB have issued a ruling that it is OK to log temporary caches but not OK to give bonuses for standing on your head or participating in the 3-legged race. Instead what was said in the other thread is that "Cache owners police the logs on their cache pages and decide for themselves how many finds a visitor can log." If a cache owner wants to say that entering the 3-legged race is equal to finding their cache (perhaps a second or third time) TPTB are not going to stop this. However, they may feel that offering 500 smileys to get your backyard fence painted is something ridiculous

[+ReadyOrNot]

Now does anyone want to paint my fence for 500 smileys!?

 

That is a fantastic idea! "The ReadyOrNot Car Washing Cache-Travaganza!".. Find the temporary cache hidden in the soap bucket for a smiley. Since your hand is already in the bucket, why not wash the car for an additional 10 smileys! Wax and shine the car and get an extra 5. Come one, come all!

 

I'm submitting the event right now!

[+ReadyOrNot]

However, they may feel that offering 500 smileys to get your backyard fence painted is something ridiculous

 

Let's see...

 

Standing on head = Finding a cache

Painting a fence = Finding a cache

 

As far as i'm concerned, they are equally ridiculous.

 

Finding a cache = Finding a cache <---- Now that makes sense.

[+Parabola]

Now that OpinionNate has spoken for HQ........

 

How about an alternate way to log temp caches at Events.

 

This should be viewed as an "ease of use" proposal for users. Makes it easier to use the site.

 

Allow the cache Event owner to setup the addtional waypoints using the Addtional Waypoints feature.

 

Then when users log it - they will get an option like this:

 

Then they will have a new stat categoy that is a simple count of temp caches they found.

 

The log entry comments for the Event can be ammended automatically with "Found the following temp caches while attending event".

 

I have brought this up before with very little comment on it.

 

I like it, I liked it a couple of threads ago too. It would make it easier for temp cache loggers to log their temp finds and no longer fill the event pages with so much clutter.

 

It would only generate one e-mail per "attented event" so the bandwith so boged down sending out all the extra logs for those who have the event on their watch list.

 

I still like the idea of a new icon for the temp caches.

 

Just make them like the benchmarks. I DON'T CARE IF THEY COUNT IN THE OVERALL FIND COUNT.

[Keystone]

So far temporary caches at events - while not meeting the permanence guideline and possible not meeting saturation guidelines - have not been shown to be caches placed in otherwise forbidden locations.

Guess again.

 

This is another reason why, as a cache reviewer, I prefer to steer clear of what happens with the temporary caches. I concentrate on making sure that the event cache itself meets the listing guidelines. Everything else, including temporary caches, geocoin sales, charity fundraisers, etc., is up to the cache owner. I don't want to know about it, and I don't want to see it on the event page. Thus it cannot be said that I (or Groundspeak, for whom I volunteer my time) have somehow "approved" the temporary event cache locations, or the logging practices.

 

Query whether, by adding the temporary event caches as "Additional Waypoints," this somehow imposes on me an obligation to review those waypoints for appropriateness (proximity to railroad tracks, compliance with park permit policies and off limits areas, etc.). I don't know the answer to that, as I haven't faced the question.

[+sbell111]

This thread has wandered so for from it's original topic that I have no clue what the topic currently is.

[+TrailGators]

So far temporary caches at events - while not meeting the permanence guideline and possible not meeting saturation guidelines - have not been shown to be caches placed in otherwise forbidden locations.

Guess again.

 

This is another reason why, as a cache reviewer, I prefer to steer clear of what happens with the temporary caches. I concentrate on making sure that the event cache itself meets the listing guidelines. Everything else, including temporary caches, geocoin sales, charity fundraisers, etc., is up to the cache owner. I don't want to know about it, and I don't want to see it on the event page. Thus it cannot be said that I (or Groundspeak, for whom I volunteer my time) have somehow "approved" the temporary event cache locations, or the logging practices.

 

Query whether, by adding the temporary event caches as "Additional Waypoints," this somehow imposes on me an obligation to review those waypoints for appropriateness (proximity to railroad tracks, compliance with park permit policies and off limits areas, etc.). I don't know the answer to that, as I haven't faced the question.

I can totally understand why reviewers would want to act like this guy when it comes to temp caches....

[+sbell111]

So far temporary caches at events - while not meeting the permanence guideline and possible not meeting saturation guidelines - have not been shown to be caches placed in otherwise forbidden locations.

Guess again.

 

This is another reason why, as a cache reviewer, I prefer to steer clear of what happens with the temporary caches. I concentrate on making sure that the event cache itself meets the listing guidelines. Everything else, including temporary caches, geocoin sales, charity fundraisers, etc., is up to the cache owner. I don't want to know about it, and I don't want to see it on the event page. Thus it cannot be said that I (or Groundspeak, for whom I volunteer my time) have somehow "approved" the temporary event cache locations, or the logging practices.

 

Query whether, by adding the temporary event caches as "Additional Waypoints," this somehow imposes on me an obligation to review those waypoints for appropriateness (proximity to railroad tracks, compliance with park permit policies and off limits areas, etc.). I don't know the answer to that, as I haven't faced the question.

I can totally understand why reviewers would want to act like this guy when it comes to temp caches....

John Banner was awesome.

[+TrailGators]

So far temporary caches at events - while not meeting the permanence guideline and possible not meeting saturation guidelines - have not been shown to be caches placed in otherwise forbidden locations.

Guess again.

 

This is another reason why, as a cache reviewer, I prefer to steer clear of what happens with the temporary caches. I concentrate on making sure that the event cache itself meets the listing guidelines. Everything else, including temporary caches, geocoin sales, charity fundraisers, etc., is up to the cache owner. I don't want to know about it, and I don't want to see it on the event page. Thus it cannot be said that I (or Groundspeak, for whom I volunteer my time) have somehow "approved" the temporary event cache locations, or the logging practices.

 

Query whether, by adding the temporary event caches as "Additional Waypoints," this somehow imposes on me an obligation to review those waypoints for appropriateness (proximity to railroad tracks, compliance with park permit policies and off limits areas, etc.). I don't know the answer to that, as I haven't faced the question.

I can totally understand why reviewers would want to act like this guy when it comes to temp caches....

John Banner was awesome.

Yes he was.

[+tozainamboku]

Query whether, by adding the temporary event caches as "Additional Waypoints," this somehow imposes on me an obligation to review those waypoints for appropriateness (proximity to railroad tracks, compliance with park permit policies and off limits areas, etc.). I don't know the answer to that, as I haven't faced the question.

Would you have to review the additional waypoint someone put on their event with the coordinates of the diamond the event organizer reserved for the softball game? It seem to me that hiding some temporary caches in or around the park where the event is, is no different than having reserved a diamond for the ball game. It is a legitimate activity for people participating in the event and adding reference point additional waypoints for these activities shouldn't require a reviewer do anything more than adding the coordinates for the parking. Temporary event caches are no more or less than any other activity that event organizer has planned.

[+TrailGators]

Query whether, by adding the temporary event caches as "Additional Waypoints," this somehow imposes on me an obligation to review those waypoints for appropriateness (proximity to railroad tracks, compliance with park permit policies and off limits areas, etc.). I don't know the answer to that, as I haven't faced the question.

Would you have to review the additional waypoint someone put on their event with the coordinates of the diamond the event organizer reserved for the softball game? It seem to me that hiding some temporary caches in or around the park where the event is, is no different than having reserved a diamond for the ball game. It is a legitimate activity for people participating in the event and adding reference point additional waypoints for these activities shouldn't require a reviewer do anything more than adding the coordinates for the parking. Temporary event caches are no more or less than any other activity that event organizer has planned.

I don't agree because these are physical caches and could cause an issue. However, this is kind of a moot point because the owner can add waypoints later so I don't think is a way to know if a reviewer saw them anyhow.

[+sbell111]

Query whether, by adding the temporary event caches as "Additional Waypoints," this somehow imposes on me an obligation to review those waypoints for appropriateness (proximity to railroad tracks, compliance with park permit policies and off limits areas, etc.). I don't know the answer to that, as I haven't faced the question.

Would you have to review the additional waypoint someone put on their event with the coordinates of the diamond the event organizer reserved for the softball game? It seem to me that hiding some temporary caches in or around the park where the event is, is no different than having reserved a diamond for the ball game. It is a legitimate activity for people participating in the event and adding reference point additional waypoints for these activities shouldn't require a reviewer do anything more than adding the coordinates for the parking. Temporary event caches are no more or less than any other activity that event organizer has planned.

I don't agree because these are physical caches and could cause an issue. However, this is kind of a moot point because the owner can add waypoints later so I don't think is a way to know if a reviewer saw them anyhow.

Agreed, but the issue that they would cause would be no different than any other activity-related issue. It makes no difference if people are sent to a verboten location to find a temporary cache, park their cars, join the three legged race, or paint a fence.

[+TrailGators]

Query whether, by adding the temporary event caches as "Additional Waypoints," this somehow imposes on me an obligation to review those waypoints for appropriateness (proximity to railroad tracks, compliance with park permit policies and off limits areas, etc.). I don't know the answer to that, as I haven't faced the question.

Would you have to review the additional waypoint someone put on their event with the coordinates of the diamond the event organizer reserved for the softball game? It seem to me that hiding some temporary caches in or around the park where the event is, is no different than having reserved a diamond for the ball game. It is a legitimate activity for people participating in the event and adding reference point additional waypoints for these activities shouldn't require a reviewer do anything more than adding the coordinates for the parking. Temporary event caches are no more or less than any other activity that event organizer has planned.

I don't agree because these are physical caches and could cause an issue. However, this is kind of a moot point because the owner can add waypoints later so I don't think is a way to know if a reviewer saw them anyhow.

Agreed, but the issue that they would cause would be no different than any other activity-related issue. It makes no difference if people are sent to a verboten location to find a temporary cache, park their cars, join the three legged race, or paint a fence.

It makes a difference to me if they paint my fence because that means I won't have to do it! I still think we could put this smiley mania to good use! Edited November 16, 2007 by TrailGators

[+Too Tall John]

Query whether, by adding the temporary event caches as "Additional Waypoints," this somehow imposes on me an obligation to review those waypoints for appropriateness (proximity to railroad tracks, compliance with park permit policies and off limits areas, etc.). I don't know the answer to that, as I haven't faced the question.

Would you have to review the additional waypoint someone put on their event with the coordinates of the diamond the event organizer reserved for the softball game? It seem to me that hiding some temporary caches in or around the park where the event is, is no different than having reserved a diamond for the ball game. It is a legitimate activity for people participating in the event and adding reference point additional waypoints for these activities shouldn't require a reviewer do anything more than adding the coordinates for the parking. Temporary event caches are no more or less than any other activity that event organizer has planned.

I don't agree because these are physical caches and could cause an issue. However, this is kind of a moot point because the owner can add waypoints later so I don't think is a way to know if a reviewer saw them anyhow.

Agreed, but the issue that they would cause would be no different than any other activity-related issue. It makes no difference if people are sent to a verboten location to find a temporary cache, park their cars, join the three legged race, or paint a fence.

It makes a difference to me if they paint my fence because that means I won't have to do it! I still think we could put this smiley mania to good use!

No need to allow someone to log temporary caches for painting your fance. Just make each section of fence it's own CITO Event!

[+Renegade Knight]

...No need to allow someone to log temporary caches for painting your fance. Just make each section of fence it's own CITO Event!

 

Tom Sawyer style. I like it.

[+TrailGators]

...No need to allow someone to log temporary caches for painting your fance. Just make each section of fence it's own CITO Event!

 

Tom Sawyer style. I like it.

Today's Tom Sawyer

Mean, mean pride

 

Though his mind is not for rent

Don't put him down as arrogant

His reserve, a quiet defense

Riding out the day's events

The river

 

What you say about his company

Is what you say about society

Catch the mist, catch the myth

Catch the mystery, catch the drift

 

Edit: It's Friday so cut me some slack on the OT. Can you name the group?

Edited November 16, 2007 by TrailGators

[Mushtang]

...No need to allow someone to log temporary caches for painting your fance. Just make each section of fence it's own CITO Event!

 

Tom Sawyer style. I like it.

Today's Tom Sawyer

Mean, mean pride

 

Though his mind is not for rent

Don't put him down as arrogant

His reserve, a quiet defense

Riding out the day's events

The river

 

What you say about his company

Is what you say about society

Catch the mist, catch the myth

Catch the mystery, catch the drift

 

Edit: It's Friday so cut me some slack on the OT. Can you name the group?

Do I get a smiley if I can?

[+TrailGators]

...No need to allow someone to log temporary caches for painting your fance. Just make each section of fence it's own CITO Event!

 

Tom Sawyer style. I like it.

Today's Tom Sawyer

Mean, mean pride

 

Though his mind is not for rent

Don't put him down as arrogant

His reserve, a quiet defense

Riding out the day's events

The river

 

What you say about his company

Is what you say about society

Catch the mist, catch the myth

Catch the mystery, catch the drift

 

Edit: It's Friday so cut me some slack on the OT. Can you name the group?

Do I get a smiley if I can?

Sure!

[+Renegade Knight]

...No need to allow someone to log temporary caches for painting your fance. Just make each section of fence it's own CITO Event!

 

Tom Sawyer style. I like it.

Today's Tom Sawyer

Mean, mean pride

 

Though his mind is not for rent

Don't put him down as arrogant

His reserve, a quiet defense

Riding out the day's events

The river

 

What you say about his company

Is what you say about society

Catch the mist, catch the myth

Catch the mystery, catch the drift

 

Edit: It's Friday so cut me some slack on the OT. Can you name the group?

Do I get a smiley if I can?

Sure!

Man I sure get a Rush out of what comes up in the forums.

[OpinioNate]

Thank you Starbrand for the initial proposal. Since you haven't contributed in a while, and because this thread has gone way off topic, I'll be closing it now.