Is a geocache "litter"?

[Kirbert]

I seem to recall a couple of years ago someone mentioning that a court had found that a geocache was *not* litter, and therefore a placer was not guilty of littering. Does anyone know if such a precedent has, in fact, been established?

 

Someone just reported on one of the AtlasQuest forums that anyone planting a letterbox in a Wildlife Management Area in Georgia is probably going to be fined for littering. They even quoted chapter and verse of the regulations against littering. And the officials involved apparently are quite irate about stashing games and are out to put a stop to them at all costs.

 

I dunno if anyone has actually been fined yet, but if they tried to fine me I would most certainly point out that I was not littering. I don't believe either a geocache or a letterbox constitute "litter". Now, if the land managers were to establish a policy on geocaches and letterboxes, I'd be perfectly willing to abide by whatever regulations they establish. But I don't believe regulations against littering apply to placing geocaches or letterboxes.

[+Team GeoBlast]

I seem to recall a couple of years ago someone mentioning that a court had found that a geocache was *not* litter, and therefore a placer was not guilty of littering. Does anyone know if such a precedent has, in fact, been established?

 

Someone just reported on one of the AtlasQuest forums that anyone planting a letterbox in a Wildlife Management Area in Georgia is probably going to be fined for littering. They even quoted chapter and verse of the regulations against littering. And the officials involved apparently are quite irate about stashing games and are out to put a stop to them at all costs.

 

I dunno if anyone has actually been fined yet, but if they tried to fine me I would most certainly point out that I was not littering. I don't believe either a geocache or a letterbox constitute "litter". Now, if the land managers were to establish a policy on geocaches and letterboxes, I'd be perfectly willing to abide by whatever regulations they establish. But I don't believe regulations against littering apply to placing geocaches or letterboxes.

 

Not sure you are going to find a lot of people who think a geocache is litter in a geocaching forum. If you are unsure about your own caches, there's an easy way to test the waters. When you ask permission to hide your cache, if the subject doesn't come up, it's not litter. If it does, then it's probably not a good place to hide a cache.

[nobby.nobbs]

i think the keypoint is that permission is required. if you have it then the owner is unlikely to even consider making a complaint. if you haven't.......

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

What Nobby said.

 

Besides, if you know that the WMA does not want or allow caches, why place one there?

 

In almost every situation adequate permission trumps 'rules'.

 

Without adequate permission anywhere the cache may indeed be geo-litter.... I am no lawyer, but I don't know of any inherent 'right' we have to leave something on someone else's property without permission. My GUESS is that any cache placed without permission could legally be littering.

[+briansnat]

If you go by the dictionary definition of litter, then a geocache is absolutely not litter. Legal definitions however don't always correspond with the definition found in the dictionary. Legally litter is whatever the law says it is. That may vary from place to place.

[+StarBrand]

Do Geocachers think of caches as litter?? NO

 

Do some muggles? YES

 

Some land managers? YES

 

As was pointed out - why place a cache somewhere they are not wanted?

[+HyperactiveGirl]

I am big on taking care of nature and had the same question when I first learned about geocaching this week (this is my first week hunting). But then I learned about the Cache In - Trash Out, which I thought was really great. Just this week the couple of caches I have been to there was lots of bottles and cans and trash here and there that I stumbled upon, so on my next hunts I am going to start bringing a trash bag with me and picking up a little everywhere I go. I think a lot of people in the outside world outside of geocaching might think that it is littering, but if they were to see that people that do this also help to clean up where they go it would show how responsible we are and that we enjoy geocaching not just for the hunt but to also be able to enjoy and take care of nature. If everyone that went to a cache took out just one piece of trash each time, that would clean up a lot in these beautiful parks and trails that muggles are destroying with their litter.

[+elmuyloco5]

I am big on taking care of nature and had the same question when I first learned about geocaching this week (this is my first week hunting). But then I learned about the Cache In - Trash Out, which I thought was really great. Just this week the couple of caches I have been to there was lots of bottles and cans and trash here and there that I stumbled upon, so on my next hunts I am going to start bringing a trash bag with me and picking up a little everywhere I go. I think a lot of people in the outside world outside of geocaching might think that it is littering, but if they were to see that people that do this also help to clean up where they go it would show how responsible we are and that we enjoy geocaching not just for the hunt but to also be able to enjoy and take care of nature. If everyone that went to a cache took out just one piece of trash each time, that would clean up a lot in these beautiful parks and trails that muggles are destroying with their litter.

 

Exactly why we have made up CITO micros. They contain a latex-free glove and a trash bag inside a film canister. The cacher can take the micro, use the contents to clean up around the cache and have the film canister for a micro later (yeah I know those who don't like film canisters......but there are plenty who use them).

 

If we all took a moment to clean up around a cache before we placed it, or as we're looking for a cache, land owners would have a MUCH different opinion of GCers, and alot of restrictions would be lifted. We control our own fate.

[+Renegade Knight]

I seem to recall a couple of years ago someone mentioning that a court had found that a geocache was *not* litter, and therefore a placer was not guilty of littering. Does anyone know if such a precedent has, in fact, been established?...

 

I doubt a legal precident has been set.

 

However based on a few policy papers I've encountered and reading various laws. It's my opinion that caches are not litter. It comes down to intent. Litter is discarded refuse. Caches are not. The various litter laws I have read do not apply to caches.

 

However abandoned property laws can normally be applied to caches by the letter of the law. That's normally a discressionary call on the part of the land owner. Caches are not abandoned property, they just happen to fit the legal defintion that was created to deal with actual abandoned property.

 

The interesting thing about the law. We can't practice it but we are subject to it and are expected to understand it.

[+BlessedBees]

If it is placed properly (with permission of the land manager) then it couldn't possibly be considered litter. In that regard it isn't any different than a sculpture or other object placed on their grounds. And, since you should be removing it when it is archived....

 

There wouldn't be anyone to ever press charges because they approved its placement.

 

Now if you are placing it without permission... that is a different story and I would say you are actually littering.

[+egami]

One man's trash is another man's treasure...

[+Chuy!]

California Penal Code.

 

374. ( a ) Littering means the willful or negligent throwing, dropping, placing, depositing,

or sweeping, or causing any such acts, of any waste matter on land or water in other than

appropriate storage containers or areas designated for such purposes.

 

( b ) Waste matter means discarded, used, or leftover substance including, but not limited

to, a lighted or nonlighted cigarette, cigar, match, or any flaming or glowing material, or

any garbage, trash, refuse, paper, container, packaging or construction material, carcass

of a dead animal, any nauseous or offensive matter of any kind, or any object likely to injure

any person or create a traffic hazard.

 

I think we can legally win in court that a cache is not waste matter. However, caches on private property (that includes caches in supermarket parking lots, malls, etc...) become property of the property owner and we have no say what he/she does with the cache if he/she finds it. I guess for that matter we don't have much say if a muggle finds a cache in the public - finder's keepers, right? But if the cache is placed with permission of the property owner, or park officials, now we have certain rights to the cache.

 

See where I'm going with this?

Edited November 13, 2007 by Chuy!