Hiding on a Mailbox

[NightShift79]

I can't speak for anyone but myself here, but the only faux-pas I see here is the use of a magnetic key hider box hidden on the bottom of anything.

 

why? what is the difference - when placing a micro - between a magnetic key box and a 35mm film canister? all it is is a different container....

 

I'd feel the same way about either if was placed with that little originality.

 

(both your caching name & your avitar show that you know what I'm talking about!)

Well, I guess you needed to be more specific, like in your second post. The first time you said, "the only faux-pas I see here is the use of a magnetic key hider box hidden on the bottom of anything." The second time you said, "placed with that little originality." So it seems you're not saying that any key hider under anything is generically bad in every case, but only when it is not fairly original.

 

Right?

 

Here's what I think he is trying to say. In some rare cases, a magnetic key holder is all that can be used as a cache container that provides a little ROI for the finder like learning some history or a great view etc. In most cases, not. In the case of sticking to a mailbox, probably never. If this is what he is trying to say, I agree.

 

ok i've been reading all these posts and i can't help but notice that it's gotten somewhat off topic (like these tend to do). which is totally fine....but i kept having this same thought in response to some of the off topic points and try as i did, i couldnt ignore it any longer: why is so much emphasis placed on "originality" when hiding a cache? since when did geocaching become more about how impressive the find is instead of the hunt itself?

 

i'll agree, when one finds something original and/or rewarding at the end of their hunt, its a lot more thrilling then the times when one only finds, say, a micro in a not so special area. but, like in life, very few things are original anymore. and if cachers only ever hid caches in places that were original or interesting or meaningful, there really wouldnt be as many out there as are now. especially in my area....i live out in the cownty were there is pretty much nothing of interest/value around but a lot of field/bush area. and let me tell you, after seeing as many areas like that as we have, they certainly arent original. but we dont care...because if they werent hidden in areas like that around here, there wouldnt be ANY hidden at all!

 

for us, geocaching is about the hunt. its about the thrill of finding something that only a very select few know are there....and becoming part of that few. so, at least in my opinion, i'll take having a bunch of caches in the area that mean nothing - and thus allowing us the opportunity to cache - over only one or two "original" ones around and a limited opportunity any day!

 

a cache is a cache....and anyone who takes the time and spends the effort in hiding one correctly for OTHER people to find - be it original or mundane, inspiring or boring; film cannister, key hider, peanut butter jar, or whatever - could never be a "faux-pas".

[+Ambrosia]

I can't speak for anyone but myself here, but the only faux-pas I see here is the use of a magnetic key hider box hidden on the bottom of anything.

 

why? what is the difference - when placing a micro - between a magnetic key box and a 35mm film canister? all it is is a different container....

 

I'd feel the same way about either if was placed with that little originality.

 

(both your caching name & your avitar show that you know what I'm talking about!)

Well, I guess you needed to be more specific, like in your second post. The first time you said, "the only faux-pas I see here is the use of a magnetic key hider box hidden on the bottom of anything." The second time you said, "placed with that little originality." So it seems you're not saying that any key hider under anything is generically bad in every case, but only when it is not fairly original.

 

Right?

 

Here's what I think he is trying to say. In some rare cases, a magnetic key holder is all that can be used as a cache container that provides a little ROI for the finder like learning some history or a great view etc. In most cases, not. In the case of sticking to a mailbox, probably never. If this is what he is trying to say, I agree.

I'm sure that's what he was trying to say, as shown by my second quote. But his first one actually said "hidden on the bottome of anything", which could be a variety of things. Park bench, etc. It was a broad generalization that made it sound like it was bad to put a key holder under anything, regardless. And then later he said that it bad in cases of little originality. That's opposing viewpoints, and confusing.

 

I'm just feeling cranky today, I probably shouldn't be posting.

[+Ambrosia]

I can't speak for anyone but myself here, but the only faux-pas I see here is the use of a magnetic key hider box hidden on the bottom of anything.

 

why? what is the difference - when placing a micro - between a magnetic key box and a 35mm film canister? all it is is a different container....

 

I'd feel the same way about either if was placed with that little originality.

 

(both your caching name & your avitar show that you know what I'm talking about!)

Well, I guess you needed to be more specific, like in your second post. The first time you said, "the only faux-pas I see here is the use of a magnetic key hider box hidden on the bottom of anything." The second time you said, "placed with that little originality." So it seems you're not saying that any key hider under anything is generically bad in every case, but only when it is not fairly original.

 

Right?

 

Here's what I think he is trying to say. In some rare cases, a magnetic key holder is all that can be used as a cache container that provides a little ROI for the finder like learning some history or a great view etc. In most cases, not. In the case of sticking to a mailbox, probably never. If this is what he is trying to say, I agree.

 

ok i've been reading all these posts and i can't help but notice that it's gotten somewhat off topic (like these tend to do). which is totally fine....but i kept having this same thought in response to some of the off topic points and try as i did, i couldnt ignore it any longer: why is so much emphasis placed on "originality" when hiding a cache? since when did geocaching become more about how impressive the find is instead of the hunt itself?

 

i'll agree, when one finds something original and/or rewarding at the end of their hunt, its a lot more thrilling then the times when one only finds, say, a micro in a not so special area. but, like in life, very few things are original anymore. and if cachers only ever hid caches in places that were original or interesting or meaningful, there really wouldnt be as many out there as are now. especially in my area....i live out in the cownty were there is pretty much nothing of interest/value around but a lot of field/bush area. and let me tell you, after seeing as many areas like that as we have, they certainly arent original. but we dont care...because if they werent hidden in areas like that around here, there wouldnt be ANY hidden at all!

 

for us, geocaching is about the hunt. its about the thrill of finding something that only a very select few know are there....and becoming part of that few. so, at least in my opinion, i'll take having a bunch of caches in the area that mean nothing - and thus allowing us the opportunity to cache - over only one or two "original" ones around and a limited opportunity any day!

 

a cache is a cache....and anyone who takes the time and spends the effort in hiding one correctly for OTHER people to find - be it original or mundane, inspiring or boring; film cannister, key hider, peanut butter jar, or whatever - could never be a "faux-pas".

 

I agree.

[+egami]

ok i've been reading all these posts and i can't help but notice that it's gotten somewhat off topic (like these tend to do). which is totally fine....but i kept having this same thought in response to some of the off topic points and try as i did, i couldnt ignore it any longer: why is so much emphasis placed on "originality" when hiding a cache? since when did geocaching become more about how impressive the find is instead of the hunt itself?

 

Answer that and you'll have solved the mystery of the geocaching universe.

 

Imo, it's just part of life...everyone has preferences and they all differ. Is either inherently right or wrong? Not really.

[+Team GeoBlast]

ok i've been reading all these posts and i can't help but notice that it's gotten somewhat off topic (like these tend to do). which is totally fine....but i kept having this same thought in response to some of the off topic points and try as i did, i couldnt ignore it any longer: why is so much emphasis placed on "originality" when hiding a cache? since when did geocaching become more about how impressive the find is instead of the hunt itself?

 

Although not completely on the topic of legality of putting a mailbox, I was commenting on whether I thought it was a good idea or not. I guess the question could be asked why some cachers feel the need to duplicate the same hide... over and over again.

 

i'll agree, when one finds something original and/or rewarding at the end of their hunt, its a lot more thrilling then the times when one only finds, say, a micro in a not so special area. but, like in life, very few things are original anymore.

 

Someone in this forum referred to this phenomenon as Kitsch once. I steer clear of kitsch as much as I can in my life and in geocaching. I say this without malice towards others and with zero judgment on how they approach geocaching but I think that there are millions of new ideas for caches that have never been tried.

 

and if cachers only ever hid caches in places that were original or interesting or meaningful, there really wouldnt be as many out there as are now. especially in my area....i live out in the cownty were there is pretty much nothing of interest/value around but a lot of field/bush area. and let me tell you, after seeing as many areas like that as we have, they certainly arent original. but we dont care...because if they werent hidden in areas like that around here, there wouldnt be ANY hidden at all!

 

I don't even know where you live and I am confident that there is a world of possibility for a unique original caches. One look at the CCC thread is enough evidence of this.

 

for us, geocaching is about the hunt. its about the thrill of finding something that only a very select few know are there....and becoming part of that few. so, at least in my opinion, i'll take having a bunch of caches in the area that mean nothing - and thus allowing us the opportunity to cache - over only one or two "original" ones around and a limited opportunity any day!

 

I totally respect your opinion but feel saddened that you think it is choice.

 

a cache is a cache....

 

and I couldn't disagree with you more on this

 

and anyone who takes the time and spends the effort in hiding one correctly for OTHER people to find - be it original or mundane, inspiring or boring; film cannister, key hider, peanut butter jar, or whatever - could never be a "faux-pas".

 

You are right, none of this should be considered a faux-pas but it's not all the same either.

Edited November 14, 2007 by Team GeoBlast

[+Renegade Knight]

i hope i'm posting in the right area here...but i had a question about potentially hiding a cache on a mailbox. i was thinking of using a magnetic key hider box and hiding it on the bottom of the mailbox. but is this considered a faux pas because of the box being a piece of government property?

 

and by the way - no that this really matters much....a mailbox is a mailbox - but the kind of mailbox i'm referring to is the kind normally found in subdivisions....the large unit types that are divided up into smaller locked mailbox units that belong to each individual house in the are.

 

any thoughts/experiences on the issue that may shed some light?

 

If you own it, you can put a cache on, under, by, near, over, below, behind, around, on the other side of and the like. (However as described I'd not say this is a good hide for reasons of muggles).

 

In front of, would be a problem and avoid inside as that does kick in postal regulations.

Edited November 14, 2007 by Renegade Knight

[+Renegade Knight]

...ok i've been reading all these posts and i can't help but notice that it's gotten somewhat off topic (like these tend to do). which is totally fine....but i kept having this same thought in response to some of the off topic points and try as i did, i couldnt ignore it any longer: why is so much emphasis placed on "originality" when hiding a cache? since when did geocaching become more about how impressive the find is instead of the hunt itself?...

 

As finders become Jaded they grow an "impress me attitude" and gnash their teeth hoping others can help them with their problem. That's where orginality comments came from. They are all orginal to newbies. After 1000 finds I don't find a lot of orginal (to me) hides. If I'm not having fun I'll do something else instead of looking for the cache. I don't chastize the owners for not being orginal. I do praise the occasional orginal one that comes along.

 

There is a saying. If you have the same problem with everone...the problem is you. Same with caches.

[+Team GeoBlast]

...ok i've been reading all these posts and i can't help but notice that it's gotten somewhat off topic (like these tend to do). which is totally fine....but i kept having this same thought in response to some of the off topic points and try as i did, i couldnt ignore it any longer: why is so much emphasis placed on "originality" when hiding a cache? since when did geocaching become more about how impressive the find is instead of the hunt itself?...

 

As finders become Jaded they grow an "impress me attitude" and gnash their teeth hoping others can help them with their problem. That's where orginality comments came from. They are all orginal to newbies. After 1000 finds I don't find a lot of orginal (to me) hides. If I'm not having fun I'll do something else instead of looking for the cache. I don't chastize the owners for not being orginal. I do praise the occasional orginal one that comes along.

 

There is a saying. If you have the same problem with everone...the problem is you. Same with caches.

 

This is a pretty old tape but I think I brought it on myself this time.

 

Not sure if this is directed at my previous post but this is not where my originality comments come from at all. I hope that CowntyCupl doesn't feel chastised because that was not my intention. I really don't consider advocating for ingenuity and originality as "my problem" that needs fixing either.

 

It is not anyone's duty to impress me with ingenuity and originality but I LOVE it when they do! Don't you? Doesn't an amazing cache hunt leave you wanting more? Where is the sin in encouraging people to try harder?

[+anakerose]

personally I hate these types of caches. We've been stopped twice by people thinking we're stealing mail (Canada Post).

[+tabulator32]

I don't doubt in the least that the mailbox is the government's property. That tidbit of information is molded into each and every plastic and metal mailbox sold at Home Depot. What makes me wonder is...if they are government property...WHY do we have to BUY them from Home Depot?!

 

Shouldn't the government be installing them and maintaining them for us?

 

[+egami]

I am trying to find the link I posted here way back because it was extremely detailed and the actual controlling entity isn't the USPS, but the US Inspector General, however they are disassociated...I think of them one in the same, but if you inquire USPS they'll direct you to the USIG.

 

At any rate, I agree...similarly, why do I have to maintain the sidewalk if I technically don't own it and furthermore why can I be held legally liable for someone tripping on it or slipping on it. That is the mystery of government...solve that and you'll have unlocked one of the great mysteries of the universe.

[+EraSeek]

There was a post back on the first page with a link to an article that disagreed with me on ownership of the boxes. I guess now is a good time to respond. Just because you found an article does not mean the people had it right.

 

Molded into the boxes it says US Postmaster approved, not that we own it. You bought the box. You own it. You must maintain it. Community boxes are bought and owned by the community.

 

We do have the right by law to tell you what you can use it for if you are recieving mail in it. You can not put neighborhood invitations in it. You cannot leave a recipe for you mother to pick up in it. Or your newspaper. You can not put fliers or anything on it that does not pass through the US mail system. No one should touch it but you and the letter carrier.

 

On the other hand, paint it how you want. Make it look like a whale if you want. Or a tractor, they are cool, just don't use it for anything other than authorized mail.

 

If you want to use one for a cache, or your newspaper, or any other reason, just make it clear that it is not for US mail purposes. Don't put it where there is aurthorized delivery, or make it clear by putting on it something like "Dead Box" or "Newspaper box" or some such thing.

 

I found one cache that was in a large mailbox and painted with a GC number. It was fine. There was no delivery to that box. It was on the other side of the road and the carrier knows which are active boxes and which are not.

[+egami]

There was a post back on the first page with a link to an article that disagreed with me on ownership of the boxes. I guess now is a good time to respond. Just because you found an article does not mean the people had it right.

 

That's why I said I wish I could find the original link because the original link I posted nearly a year ago, or whenever, was directly from the USIG site.

 

And, yes, if there is no delivery or it's a mailbox not on a postal route then obviously those rules do not apply.

Edited November 17, 2007 by egami

[+egami]

Here we go: http://www.gao.gov/archive/1997/gg97085.pdf

 

In addition to the mailbox restriction law, Postal Service regulations provide that "every letterbox or other receptacle intended or used for the receipt or delivery of mail" may be used only for matter bearing postage and that any mailable matter found in mailboxes without postage is subject to payment of the same postage as if it had been carried by mail. Postal Service regulations are broader than the mailbox restriction law. The regulations restrict items placed upon, supported by, attached to, hung from, or inserted into a mailbox. However, the regulations do not apply to door slots, among other things.

 

I actually called the USIG office as well regarding the matter and confirmed this...mainly out of pure curiosity as to their level of concern. They later sent me a document regarding it as well, but I've since deleted the e-mail.

 

Again, I am not a "mailbox nazi"....at the end of the day it's an extremely low risk situation and likely isn't ever going get anyone thrown in jail, but it's probably best to represent it correctly just so people understand it could potentially be an issue.

 

I wouldn't avoid mailbox caches, but probably wouldn't place one just because "technically" it's governed, but who knows...maybe someday I would too.

Edited November 17, 2007 by egami

[+Kit Fox]

 

ok i've been reading all these posts and i can't help but notice that it's gotten somewhat off topic (like these tend to do). which is totally fine....but i kept having this same thought in response to some of the off topic points and try as i did, i couldnt ignore it any longer: why is so much emphasis placed on "originality" when hiding a cache? since when did geocaching become more about how impressive the find is instead of the hunt itself?

 

i'll agree, when one finds something original and/or rewarding at the end of their hunt, its a lot more thrilling then the times when one only finds, say, a micro in a not so special area. but, like in life, very few things are original anymore. and if cachers only ever hid caches in places that were original or interesting or meaningful, there really wouldnt be as many out there as are now. especially in my area....i live out in the cownty were there is pretty much nothing of interest/value around but a lot of field/bush area. and let me tell you, after seeing as many areas like that as we have, they certainly arent original. but we dont care...because if they werent hidden in areas like that around here, there wouldnt be ANY hidden at all!

 

for us, geocaching is about the hunt. its about the thrill of finding something that only a very select few know are there....and becoming part of that few. so, at least in my opinion, i'll take having a bunch of caches in the area that mean nothing - and thus allowing us the opportunity to cache - over only one or two "original" ones around and a limited opportunity any day!

 

a cache is a cache....and anyone who takes the time and spends the effort in hiding one correctly for OTHER people to find - be it original or mundane, inspiring or boring; film cannister, key hider, peanut butter jar, or whatever - could never be a "faux-pas".

 

I'm kinda of curious as to why you would want to share a community mailbox with other cachers, by placing a cache on one. Would the purpose strictly be for the smiley, the view of a residential area, what? There are plenty of more appropriate spots that are legal, avoid confrontation with suspicious mailbox owners, and provide some sort of entertainment value.

 

Unoriginal is fine by me, just avoid placing illegal and no purpose caches.

[+EraSeek]

Thanks for the link.

And so, yes, again, you own your mailbox. We regulate it as long as it is used for US Mail.

We do not own your mail box.

 

The mail box restriction laws not only protects our revenue, it protects you and the sanctity of your mail. If anyone were allowed to use your box it would not be against the law for them to rifle your mail.

 

May I add that I have seen a great deal of mail theft by drug addicts out of residential mailboxes. Having a law alone does not stop them. GET A LOCKED BOX.

[+egami]

Thanks for the link.

And so, yes, again, you own your mailbox. We regulate it as long as it is used for US Mail.

We do not own your mail box.

 

The mail box restriction laws not only protects our revenue, it protects you and the sanctity of your mail. If anyone were allowed to use your box it would not be against the law for them to rifle your mail.

 

May I add that I have seen a great deal of mail theft by drug addicts out of residential mailboxes. Having a law alone does not stop them. GET A LOCKED BOX.

 

Ok, gotcha, you're right...techically the mailbox is owned by whomever, but they must abide by statutory and regulary restrictions of the USPS.

 

Which means technically there should not be geocaches on them similarly to the wording quoted in this thread if in the mail system regardless of owner permission.

Edited November 17, 2007 by egami

[+EraSeek]

Here's another mailbox cache that works just fine! It called Mailbox Peak: