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General discussion about coin ownership


Flying Spaghetti Monster
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My thought is that if you recieve a mystery coin, it is a gift, it didn't cost you anything. You should keep it, not sell it and make a pofit off it. If you don't want it anymore, you should send it back.

 

I agree for the most part, saving for the exception of familial emergency.

 

As far as the other coins go, what ever deal you made for it you should honor it. Just don't make up a deal for it knowing you will never follow through with it.

 

I agree again, save for the above-mentioned case.

 

I know someone putting there comment on here is two faced as with what I just said. What ever way they want to make it work for them. They go to what ever means to get a coin.

 

Please do tell how you came to this conclusion. Accusations are a bad thing to make, you know. :laughing:

 

I like coins too, but I don't make it my driving force to get them. If I end up with something special, I cherish it and move on. I don't let it get in the way of my caching, what geocaching is really all about.

 

Generally, I've found that collectors can be some of the best cachers. I know not where you came up with that.

 

You can tell the cacher from the collector.

 

You can? :huh:

 

One of them sits in front of this thing all day looking for one while the other is looking for the other and there count goes up. Let's enjoy this for what is relly supposed to be about. CACHING! :D

 

This is the geocoin forum. So, it's only natural that we discuss them. :mad:

 

Now, back on topic, I don't disagree at all that agreements should be honored whenever possible. There are very few cases indeed where I think that the agreement should be nullified.

 

Remember, folks...it's been said many times before...

 

"It's a coin, not a kidney."

 

:)

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I think there are several issues at hand....

 

If you are GIFTED a coin that is ACTIVATED by the person who gave you the coin (and they won't adopt it to you), while you may "own" the physical coin, the person who granted the gift still has control over the trackability of the coin. For non-trackables, this is a moot point. So while you may be able to sell the metal, you may have a tough time keeping the icon to go with it! :laughing:

 

If you TRADED for a coin that is ACTIVATED by the person you traded with, and if they do not IMMEDIATELY adopt that coin to you, you are either trading with an ego-cacher, a shyster (when the coin in question isn't their personal coin), or one who thinks they can change the world through their actions with their one specific personal coin.

 

Amen, mah brotha. Preach on. :mad:

 

But if you know that you are trading for an activated coin, then you got what you wanted. The coin in your collection. No matter what his or her motive is, if you accept that coin, you have accepted that fact.

 

This is true, also. However, I think dflye's point was that if they won't transfer ownership (whether it matters to you or not) it says a lot about them...and not necessarily good things.

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Back in my noob days when I was still purchasing all my coins off ebay, I purchased 2 coins from a particular seller, and when they arrived, it turns out that the coins were activated. I had purchased many coins from ebay before this time, and I had never received an activated coin before. The auction did not state anywhere that the coins were activated, and from my experience up until that point, I assumed that an auction listed a coin as being trackable or not, and if it was an activated coin it stated that fact, which this auction did not. I was upset when I found out they were activated, not because of the fact that they were activated, since they would just end up sitting in my binder, but because I thought I had unknowingly purchased stolen coins. The name of the ebay seller and the listed owner of the coins was not the same name. Thankfully this wasn't the case. After an email to the seller, I was able to adopt the coins to my account.

 

I generally do not activate my coins, but I do have a few that are activated because I received them in trade and they were adopted to my account. I also have a few coins that were gifts that came to me previously activated under the gifter's account, and they still remain under that person's account.

 

Gift coins I will take any way they come-activated or not, but I feel like if I pay for a trackable coin or make a fair trade for a trackable coin, then that coin should belong to me, tracking info and all. I would not feel like I made a fair trade if I gave someone one of my trackable, unactivated coins that they are free to do with as they wish, and receive in turn an activated coin that I cannot adopt or trade.

 

I understand that certain coins were never originally sold, and were trade only coins because the minter did not want to see anyone profit from their coins. I would always respect the wishes of the coin maker if they do not intend for their coin to be sold, as long as I am aware of the fact. I think the majority of people in the community would respect a coin makers wishes about the sale of their coin (barring an emergency situation, which is a diff topic)

 

But I do not understand the purpose of trading away activated coins and retaining ownership of the tracking information. Is it just to prevent the sale of coins? I think the majority of people respect a trade only coin and wouldn't try to sell it.

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I think there are several issues at hand....

 

If you TRADED for a coin that is ACTIVATED by the person you traded with, and if they do not IMMEDIATELY adopt that coin to you, you are either trading with an ego-cacher, a shyster (when the coin in question isn't their personal coin), or one who thinks they can change the world through their actions with their one specific personal coin.

 

There is one additional scenario to the three you have presented......you traded with an absentminded geocacher that just wants your neat trades and forgot to make a list of his activated traders to adopt them to you. teehee

Edited by horsegeeks
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What makes this difficult is the word ownership. Does the person who registers the coin own it or does the person who possesses it? Frankly, I can understand an argument for either of those definitions.

 

I believe that if you trade for an activated coin and your counterpart gives you rules then you should abide by those rules. If you don't like the rules, then don't trade. If you run into some personal issues and need to sell everything you own then take the high road and trade back for another coin you can sell. Personally, I wouldn't trade for a coin with rules but I understand why many would (ooh, shiny).

 

I have a new set of personals and I don't expect to trade a lot but when I do trade I'll understand that the recipient can do whatever he wants with the coin. This will also hold true for coins I gift. Sure, I'll be disappointed if it pops up on eBay but the coin is his.

 

When trading, be clear about expectations and once entered into an agreement abide by the conditions. Simple enough.

 

As always, one cacher's opinion.

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No one's talking about stolen goods here. These are coins that were sold or traded...not stolen from anyone.

 

:laughing: Doesn't matter where you got it, if you don't have a legit claim to it (including the ability to sell it) it's not yours. Selling a coin that you traded for but never owned isn't cool. Its really like fox-and-the-hound said in the first couple posts... basically if you don't own it, you can't sell it!

 

Um...if I traded for it...went through all the motions...gave the person a coin or multiple coins for the one or more coins I received...then I own it. There are no ifs, ands or buts.

 

I cannot see why you think the person holding it has no legit claim to it. You didn't steal it. You got it legit. It's yours. Thinking any other way is foolish and out of touch with reality.

 

I own every coin in my collection. There are a few that have different "owners" according to a web page and as such I do respect their wishes as stated. However, respecting their wishes does not mean I don't own the coin in question.

 

I was all ready to disagree with you A&T, but you just nailed the real crux of the matter. "You got it legit. It's yours." This goes right back to what I was saying about ownership. If you traded for a coin, be it with dollars or any other bit o' barter and the agreement of your trade includes "ownership" then you are free to do as you like. The stick-in-the-spokes of so many of these dealings is the idea that one person may activate a coin and then trade it to another without transfering the registration. It doesn't matter what their reasons are, if they don't give you the registration along with the coin, then it isn't yours. Oh, they might try and put a shiny coat of paint on the deal, but you've just been had if you agreed to it. Possession isn't ownership. Never has been, never will be. A coin in a collection that is registered as property of someone else is simply on loan until you received the registration. It doesn't matter how you ended up with it or what you do with it, if you don't own it, it isn't yours. The solution comes back to what you said before, "You got it legit". Legitimacy implies:

 

le·git·i·mate /adj., n. li-jit-uh-mit; v. li-jit-uh-meyt, adjective, verb, -mat·ed, -mat·ing, noun

–adjective 1. according to law; lawful: the property's legitimate owner.

 

Bottom line: Ownership includes the registration. :mad:

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I agree with both of the above posts. I hope that the people trading that retain registration of the coins they're trading make it crystal clear that although they're accepting your coin in trade(to do with as they wish)..the coin they're giving you will still remain theirs. If you accept a coin under those terms then you should abide by that agreement.

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A coin in a collection that is registered as property of someone else is simply on loan until you received the registration. It doesn't matter how you ended up with it or what you do with it, if you don't own it, it isn't yours.

 

I agree with much of what is in your post, but the above statement doesn't generally fly with me. A trade is a barter transaction - the coin was sold (albeit for goods rather than for cash). Unless agreements to the contrary are made at the time of exchange, ownership does transfer. Failure to register that transfer of ownership on geocaching.com does not change the nature of the transaction.

 

barter - v.i. to trade by exchange of goods or services without the use of money. -- v.t. To trade (goods or services) for something of equal value. -- n. The exchanging of a commodities or a commidity given in exchange. [if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and looks like a duck, it probably is a duck]

 

Certainly the barter exchange could be for a loan of a geocoin for a collection - but unless that is stated up front, it should not be assumed.

 

edit: Now if I could only learn to spell :laughing:

Edited by tokencollector
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I really feel that this discussion is missing the point.

 

There are certain coins that were never meant to be sold.

 

This was the wish of the originator and even if the coin had passed through many hands this limitation is still in place. It really doesn't matter how you got the coin but the simple fact is that we should honor the originators request.

 

I have a Moun10Bike V1, Jeep'en Jumpers, Ajayhawkfan and others in my collection. I acquired these by either finding them, trading with the originator, or trading with someone else. They are all in my collection legally and I consider that I do own them even though they are activated under the originators name.

 

And although I do own them I would never consider selling any of them unless I had permission from the originator. The simple reason for this is that this is the originators desires and I feel I should honor that.

 

Team Sand Dollar

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A coin in a collection that is registered as property of someone else is simply on loan until you received the registration. It doesn't matter how you ended up with it or what you do with it, if you don't own it, it isn't yours.

 

I agree with much of what is in your post, but the above statement doesn't generally fly with me. A trade is a barter transaction - the coin was sold (albeit for goods rather than for cash). Unless agreements to the contrary are made at the time of exchange, ownership does transfer. Failure to register that transfer of ownership on geocaching.com does not change the nature of the transaction.

 

barter - v.i. to trade by exchange of goods or services without the use of money. -- v.t. To trade (goods or services) for something of equal value. -- n. The exchanging of a commodities or a commidity given in exchange. [if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and looks like a duck, it probably is a duck]

 

Certainly the barter exchange could be for a loan of a geocoin for a collection - but unless that is stated up front, it should not be assumed.

 

edit: Now if I could only learn to spell :mad:

 

The transaction method is irrelevant. The point is the definition of "sold" must be established. If you don't own the registration, you don't own the coin. The registration IS ownership. Anything else is just being loaned. Like leasing a car. It doesn't matter how ridiculously much you pay for the lease, it still belongs to someone else. How can that be proven you ask? Just look at the registration :laughing:

 

Looking at my trackables list and the first thing that comes up:

 

"Search Trackable Items

By Username (owned): fox-and-the-hound [new search] "

 

I said it before and I stand by it, you either own it or you don't. :huh:

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The transaction method is irrelevant. The point is the definition of "sold" must be established. If you don't own the registration, you don't own the coin. The registration IS ownership.

 

"The registration IS ownership." is where we differ. I would go so far as to say registration is evidence of ownership, but it is not proof. (And, our difference may be semantic - IS to me, means under any and all circumstances.)

 

An extreme example is if I sold (or traded, or gave) you a coin and I activated it in my name after the transaction. You would still own the coin. I suspect that you would feel cheated and that you were the rightful owner of the coin. [And, I would justifyably become a pariah.]

 

Unless stated otherwise up front, if I gave you $10 for a coin - I would consider myself to be the owner of the coin. I bought it; a contract was entered and completed. The presence or absence of registration on a popular but obscure website does not change the nature of the transaction or the fact of ownership.

Edited by tokencollector
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...But if you know that you are trading for an activated coin, then you got what you wanted. The coin in your collection. No matter what his or her motive is, if you accept that coin, you have accepted that fact.

 

If you know going in, that's fair enough. If I mint a trackable coin it would be tempting to create maps to see my coin's travels. By "my coin" I mean the larger coin release as opposed to any one coin. There is ownership in being a coin designer and releasing them that's not the same as any one coin.

 

If 5 trades and sales down the road the new owner of a single coin came to me and asked they would be told "sorry but I track all my coins" some would be content, others would demand that their coin have the tracking turned over, but that was never part of the deal and never in their control.

 

I don't have the time to actually do such a thing but if I did or a coin company offered it as a service, it would be tempting as heck.

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..."The registration IS ownership." is where we differ. I would go so far as to say registration is evidence of ownership, but it is not proof. (And, our difference may be semantic - IS to me, means under any and all circumstances.)...

 

True enough assuming registration is tracking.

Any numbered coin can be tracked. You can also set up an ownership registrate that only tracks ownership. That has advantages and issues that it would create. However it would create a title chain. The cost of transfering title though would make it so it's only worth it on coins that are worth something.

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Wow, one of my impressions is who would have thought that this would be such a contentious issue.

 

People generally seem to agree:

 

that they don’t like strings attached to their geocoins (some don’t mind),

that they should honor the commitments made when receiving a coin,

that registration should transfer with ownership,

that mystery coins fall into a special category and accepting one means accepting a commitment.

 

I wouldn’t have thought there would be an argument of what ownership and sale mean.

 

And, since my thread was rolled into this one, I still have an unanswered question (ok I’ve received a few responses) about why people feel compelled to control what happens to their coin after they have sold / traded/ given it away. Or, perhaps less pejoratively, why do some folks request / insist that their coin only ever be traded and never sold.

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I really feel that this discussion is missing the point.

 

There are certain coins that were never meant to be sold.

 

This was the wish of the originator and even if the coin had passed through many hands this limitation is still in place. It really doesn't matter how you got the coin but the simple fact is that we should honor the originators request. ...

 

These coins will outlive their creators. When that happens at some point all bets are off and rightfully so.

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The transaction method is irrelevant. The point is the definition of "sold" must be established. If you don't own the registration, you don't own the coin. The registration IS ownership.

 

"The registration IS ownership." is where we differ. I would go so far as to say registration is evidence of ownership, but it is not proof. (And, our difference may be semantic - IS to me, means under any and all circumstances.)

 

An extreme example is if I sold (or traded, or gave) you a coin and I activated it in my name after the transaction. You would still own the coin. I suspect that you would feel cheated and that you were the rightful owner of the coin. [And, I would justifyably become a pariah.]

 

Unless stated otherwise up front, if I gave you $10 for a coin - I would consider myself to be the owner of the coin. I bought it; a contract was entered and completed. The presence or absence of registration on a popular but obscure website does not change the nature of the transaction or the fact of ownership.

 

Ah, but now we're back to my statement in Post #108 and the Legitimacy.

 

Exactly what would you need for proof? I register my car ownership online. I register my coin ownership online. Both are perfectly valid forms of evidence showing proof of ownership.

 

As for your example, if you bartered a coin to me and then activated it, then the coin DID NOT change ownership. It only changed possession. You would have reneged on your end of the contract and the contract (verbal, written or otherwise) is now null and void. In essence, you sold me a coin and then stole it afterwords. Any exchanged emails, recorded calls or written corespondence could verify the details of the transaction and show proof of your theft (not that you would ever do that I hope :laughing: ).

 

It doesn't matter how obscure or extreme the coin exchange is though. You can make a million scenarios up, but it won't change the facts. Unless both parties agree you are buying the coin it doesn't change "ownership".

 

SandDollar pointed out that there are some coins that were never meant to be sold. Well in that's so, then the original owner shouldn't sell them. Register them and keep them. Register them and let other people show them off. And if someone tries to sell your coin, call them on it. Like most things in life, it's buyer beware, but it still comes back to you either own it or you don't. The scenarios of how you came to possess an item are infinite and irrelevent.

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Wow, one of my impressions is who would have thought that this would be such a contentious issue.

 

People generally seem to agree:

 

that they don’t like strings attached to their geocoins (some don’t mind),

that they should honor the commitments made when receiving a coin,

that registration should transfer with ownership,

that mystery coins fall into a special category and accepting one means accepting a commitment.

 

I wouldn’t have thought there would be an argument of what ownership and sale mean.

 

And, since my thread was rolled into this one, I still have an unanswered question (ok I’ve received a few responses) about why people feel compelled to control what happens to their coin after they have sold / traded/ given it away. Or, perhaps less pejoratively, why do some folks request / insist that their coin only ever be traded and never sold.

 

:laughing: You just summed up my response before I finished writing it! :)

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I really feel that this discussion is missing the point.

 

There are certain coins that were never meant to be sold.

 

This was the wish of the originator and even if the coin had passed through many hands this limitation is still in place. It really doesn't matter how you got the coin but the simple fact is that we should honor the originators request. ...

 

These coins will outlive their creators. When that happens at some point all bets are off and rightfully so.

 

Why? If I die, my legal property belongs to my next of kin. Coins are property, why should they be any different?

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Never had these problems when geocoins were new. :)Probably because people had a more genuine sense of respect and honor between each other. :D A promise was a promise...and then there was eBay. :D

 

Sooooo...you're saying those of us who aren't "old-school" collectors don't have as much honor as you guys?

 

:D:laughing:

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Never had these problems when geocoins were new. :)Probably because people had a more genuine sense of respect and honor between each other. :D A promise was a promise...and then there was eBay. :D

 

Sooooo...you're saying those of us who aren't "old-school" collectors don't have as much honor as you guys?

 

:D:laughing:

 

If you're putting yourself in that category, then that's you talking, not me. :D

Edited by YemonYime
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Never had these problems when geocoins were new. :)Probably because people had a more genuine sense of respect and honor between each other. :D A promise was a promise...and then there was eBay. :D

 

Sooooo...you're saying those of us who aren't "old-school" collectors don't have as much honor as you guys?

 

:D:laughing:

 

If you're putting yourself in that category, then that's you talking, not me. :D

 

Nice deflection.

 

I put myself in no category.

 

So...please...answer the question.

Edited by Arthur & Trillian
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No one's talking about stolen goods here. These are coins that were sold or traded...not stolen from anyone.

 

:laughing: Doesn't matter where you got it, if you don't have a legit claim to it (including the ability to sell it) it's not yours. Selling a coin that you traded for but never owned isn't cool. Its really like fox-and-the-hound said in the first couple posts... basically if you don't own it, you can't sell it!

 

Um...if I traded for it...went through all the motions...gave the person a coin or multiple coins for the one or more coins I received...then I own it. There are no ifs, ands or buts.

 

I cannot see why you think the person holding it has no legit claim to it. You didn't steal it. You got it legit. It's yours. Thinking any other way is foolish and out of touch with reality.

 

I own every coin in my collection. There are a few that have different "owners" according to a web page and as such I do respect their wishes as stated. However, respecting their wishes does not mean I don't own the coin in question.

If what you call a trade is exactly what the person you got the coin from calls a trade, then yes. Otherwise doing something that has strings (like a 'lease') and then you calling it a trade does does make it so.

 

I did not say the person holding it has not claim to it, I said they DO NOT OWN IT JUST BECAUSE THEY HAVE IT. To own it you must have got it in a no strings agreement from someone that actually had the ability to enter into that agreement. If you can't understand this then I have to wonder what kind of ill gotten things you have around you.

 

Your 'possession is 9/10th of the law' attitude is red flag to me, you must need to tell yourself that the coins are really yours often to keep the illusion alive in your own mind. Keep repeating it, I wouldn't want reality to set in :) .

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Never had these problems when geocoins were new. :)Probably because people had a more genuine sense of respect and honor between each other. B) A promise was a promise...and then there was eBay. :D

 

Sooooo...you're saying those of us who aren't "old-school" collectors don't have as much honor as you guys?

 

:D:laughing:

 

If you're putting yourself in that category, then that's you talking, not me. :D

 

Nice deflection.

 

I put myself in no category.

 

So...please...answer the question.

Yes you seem to be a dirt bag and probably steal things, any other questions I can answer for you? :D

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Never had these problems when geocoins were new. :)Probably because people had a more genuine sense of respect and honor between each other. B) A promise was a promise...and then there was eBay. :D

 

Sooooo...you're saying those of us who aren't "old-school" collectors don't have as much honor as you guys?

 

:D:laughing:

 

If you're putting yourself in that category, then that's you talking, not me. :D

 

I put myself in no category.

 

So...please...answer the question.

 

My statement was pretty simple and to the point, A&T...that closer knit group had a nice sense of comradery. There was never a reason to debate ownership, because people were thrilled enough with the new hobby they were forming that they didn't dream of taking advantage of each other. Just offering a little perspective for those that weren't there.

 

Oh, and BTW... forum folk were gracious, and didn't demand answers to their questions. It's a forum, not a courtroom. :D

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You know...relatively civil discussion has been going on. Now, in this post...

 

If you can't understand this then I have to wonder what kind of ill gotten things you have around you.

 

...and this...

 

Yes you seem to be a dirt bag and probably steal things, any other questions I can answer for you? :laughing:

 

...you imply I am a thief.

 

I could say a lot of nasty things to you, but I won't.

 

I will say that I am highly offended to be basically labeled a thief.

 

Good day.

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I think what Yime is saying, was back in the beginning we didn't need to spell it out and have a contract before we exchanged coins because there were some thing you just didn't do, in fact you would never think of doing. It was a much more personal experience back then, and meant a lot more. When it grew to commercial proportions the lines got fuzzy and confusing. Not everyone is the buy all collector or for that fact the buy at all collector. For those people lost in that time warp a coin is still something personal, and with that brings the sentiment that it's not to be sold.

If you buy a coin you own it (of course, unless u buy it and it was already stolen). If you accept a coin with the condition that you will never sell it, it's still yours, you just can't sell it. Much like A&T I believe explained the medal of honor and it not being able to be sold. It's still yours.

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My statement was pretty simple and to the point, A&T...that closer knit group had a nice sense of comradery. There was never a reason to debate ownership, because people were thrilled enough with the new hobby they were forming that they didn't dream of taking advantage of each other. Just offering a little perspective for those that weren't there.

 

Oh, and BTW... forum folk were gracious, and didn't demand answers to their questions. It's a forum, not a courtroom. :)

 

I can see your first point, but how is anyone really taking advantage over someone else?

 

As far as your second...touché... :laughing:

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You know...relatively civil discussion has been going on. Now, in this post...

 

If you can't understand this then I have to wonder what kind of ill gotten things you have around you.

 

...and this...

 

Yes you seem to be a dirt bag and probably steal things, any other questions I can answer for you? :laughing:

 

...you imply I am a thief.

 

I could say a lot of nasty things to you, but I won't.

 

I will say that I am highly offended to be basically labeled a thief.

 

Good day.

You've already said I was out of touch with reality and foolish. Or was I not to be insulted by those remarks?

 

Good night.

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Don't worry I reported your insults already.

 

I don't know what you're talking about...this discussion was pretty civil until you popped off at the mouth.

 

You've already said I was out of touch with reality and foolish. Or was I not to be insulted by those remarks?

 

There's a big difference between a fairly tame generalized statement and a pointed implication that a certain person engages in criminal activity.

 

Back on topic...AGAIN...I agree with Hula Bum for the most part...she said it quite well.

Edited by Arthur & Trillian
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Never had these problems when geocoins were new. :DProbably because people had a more genuine sense of respect and honor between each other. :) A promise was a promise...and then there was eBay. :D

 

Sooooo...you're saying those of us who aren't "old-school" collectors don't have as much honor as you guys?

 

:D:laughing:

 

If you're putting yourself in that category, then that's you talking, not me. :D

 

Nice deflection.

 

I put myself in no category.

 

So...please...answer the question.

Yes you seem to be a dirt bag and probably steal things, any other questions I can answer for you? B)

pwn3d B)

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I understand that sentiment...but I guess what the original question was is Why would you only feel that way about some personal coins and not every personal coin that you acquire? Why do they not all fall under this personal experience that you speak of?

 

I don't know if anyone can answer this specifically. I think some older personal coins are activated by the original owners because back in the day when they were made there were no commercial sites to sell them or do resale programs, etc. (Or at least not to the scale there is now) They had to pay for 500 coins out of their own pocket to get an icon. There were no commercial coins available for sale back when coin collecting started. I think you would have to contact the cachers that have done this and ask why it is not meant to be sold and why they did that...I think that everyone has their own reasons. Moun10bike was the first person to create geocoins and from what I know from him it wasn't meant to be commercial. He did it to have something different to gift to other cachers and leave in caches. Then as more coins were made he used them to trade.

 

I do have a moun10bike coin in my possesion as well as a few other coins that are not owned by me. I traded and accepted the conditions of never selling them. If I didn't agree with the condition I would not have accepted the trade. I do not consider myself the owner of coins like these. I am just holding them and I have fun bringing them to local events, etc so that other caches can discover them. For me I gave my word when I made the trades that they will never be sold and I honor my word. People don't have to agree with that but that's ok to me. I am the one that traded for these specific coins and I will honor the owner's request.

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In "the good ole days" of geocoins and honor.... when coins were traded and never sold. But I suppose all of you that are waxing sentimental over those days have never sold any of your coins. on ebay or anywhere else

 

I kind of wonder that myself. If we are to be told correctly, no coins were sold, people were happy and danced in the streets.

 

:laughing:

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If you accept a coin with the condition that you will never sell it, it's still yours, you just can't sell it. Much like A&T I believe explained the medal of honor and it not being able to be sold. It's still yours.

 

I'd just like to ask a question to clarify what you said. If you "accept" implies that you are receiving a coin, but it leaves ownership rather vague. Are you saying that receiving a coin implies ownership or rather that you accept stewardship for it and the rules that stewardship entails similar to the Medal of Honor? :laughing:

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I don't know if anyone can answer this specifically. I think some older personal coins are activated by the original owners because back in the day when they were made there were no commercial sites to sell them or do resale programs, etc. (Or at least not to the scale there is now) They had to pay for 500 coins out of their own pocket to get an icon. There were no commercial coins available for sale back when coin collecting started. I think you would have to contact the cachers that have done this and ask why it is not meant to be sold and why they did that...I think that everyone has their own reasons. Moun10bike was the first person to create geocoins and from what I know from him it wasn't meant to be commercial. He did it to have something different to gift to other cachers and leave in caches. Then as more coins were made he used them to trade.

 

I think this is a good explanation of why some coins are trade only and not to be sold. I think the moun10bike coins, the mystery coins, and I am sure a few others as well fit into this category: coins that were made with the intention of giving back to the geoaching/coin community. These are coins that the makers spent their own time and money to produce, and did not sell themselves for a profit or even to recoup the cost of minting (which is a good amount of money). It makes perfect sense to me why the makers of these coins request that others not sell them for profit, especially when the original intent of the coin was in effect a gift to the community as a whole.

 

I recently minted my first personal coin, and I designed and financed my coin myself. My coin has personal meaning to me because I was the artist, because it represents me as a geocacher, and even because I spent my time and money on the design process, the editing phase, getting feedback from the forums, taking reservations, invoicing, and finally shipping the coins. The project was a huge investment for me both financially and emotionally, and the finished coin was something that I was and still is something that I love sharing. If I had the financial means to spend $2,000 on coins to give them all away and leave them in caches, then I would have done that. I did the next best thing for my financial situation: I had the money to front for the coins, so I sold a number of them at a reasonable price to help me to cover the minting costs, and then the rest of them I traded and gave away to friends as gifts.

 

After selling off a large portion of my coins, obviously some showed up on ebay. I had mixed feelings about that. On the one hand, it was kind of upsetting to see someone else get $25 for a coin that they paid less than $9 for, especially when I was the one who put in the time and money to make the product and Istill hadn't recouped the cost of minting. But on the other hand, it was sort of an ego boost to see that people like my coin and like my design enough to pay $20-30 for a $8-$9 coin, even if the money wasn't going to me. I feel that once I sell or trade my coins to someone else, the coin is their to do with as they wish. If they want to sell the coin on ebay, that is their choice.

 

I know the time, effort, and cost that goes into minting a coin. The people that still mint trade only or gift coins really should be saluted for their contributions to the community, and their wishes for other people not to sell these coins for profit should be honored.

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I understand that sentiment...but I guess what the original question was is Why would you only feel that way about some personal coins and not every personal coin that you acquire? Why do they not all fall under this personal experience that you speak of?

 

They don't all fall under this because lots if not most of personal coins are now sold from the beginning. If you sell your coin from the get go then I see no reason why others can't turn around and sell it again. That's where the difference for personals is for me. Personals had personal experience and meaning attached to them, because most of the time you were getting a coin straight from the owner's hand, literally, and tht face to face contact and meeting is what made them special, it was more collecting for memories sake than collecting for coins sake. Not sure if I articualted that very well, sorry.

Edited by Hula Bum
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If you accept a coin with the condition that you will never sell it, it's still yours, you just can't sell it. Much like A&T I believe explained the medal of honor and it not being able to be sold. It's still yours.

 

I'd just like to ask a question to clarify what you said. If you "accept" implies that you are receiving a coin, but it leaves ownership rather vague. Are you saying that receiving a coin implies ownership or rather that you accept stewardship for it and the rules that stewardship entails similar to the Medal of Honor? :laughing:

 

Yeah, I guess so, I've never really cared about breaking down the wording being that I have never thought about selling any of my mystery or moun10bike and the like coins. It's just not something I would ever do because I know how the people who made them feel about it and would never take advantage of their kindness that they showed me by giving me one of their coins.

 

It just seems wrong to profit off of someone's generosity.

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All I get from this thread is that everyone is right. To some, right is if it gets them what they want. Then after it is in there hand just do as you please even if string are attached. If selling a coin after you said you would not do it or even if it was a mystery coin because of finical diffulties, maybe one shouldn't be spending extra money on the coins, but to save for a rainy day? :laughing:

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Do you want my opinion?

 

If you traded a coin for a coin with someone, then you own that coin, because you paid fair value for it. Regardless of who's account it is listed under. Trading with someone is not generosity, it's business, fair trade. If you agreed at that point, between each other, that you would not sell it, then that agreement should be honored.

Gifting someone a coin is generosity, and i someone gifted you a coin, then it's a gift. Maybe later, it didn't fit. That is a grey area. Because everyone knows people return gifts to the store for something else all the time, just visit any store after the Christmas season. The gifter should make their feelings known from the start. "I'm giving you this coin in the hopes that you will never sell it." But what about trades? Suppose someone trades the coin, does the next person to have the coin have to follow the wishes of someone they didn't have an agreement with, or even discuss it with? If you don't want this to happen, then it's best you don't give away your coins to people you don't know.

 

If no stipulation was made, then you should be able to do what you want, when you want, where you want, whatever you want to with that coin. Certain coins have that stipulation up front and expressly written right there for all to see on the coin page (ie: my Volunteer coins, Moun10Bike coins, and others...)

If you paid cold cash for a coin, then you should be able to dispense of the coin however you see fit, whether you trade it, sell it, place it in a cache, drill a hole in it and put on your dog's collar, use it for a paperweight, donate it to a cause, the decision should be yours.

You do all realize we are dealing with the human race here and like snowflakes, no two people are alike?

 

The arguments in this thread should never have taken place here, and I'm rather dissapointed to come home and read all this petty bickering that's been going on all day.

This thread stated in the very first post that this was to be a general discussion, and no one particular case was to be brought up. This last page has been anything but that. Unbelieveable.

 

Peace on earth begins at home. Make love, not war.

 

Some have asked me if I would make my own coin. Not on your life! Not if this is what it leads to. No thank you.

 

That is my opinion.

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As this discussion has evolved and devolved It has been more or less civil though I am not sure it has changed anyone’s opinions.

 

As I was reading some of the harsher comments I was reminded of an old M*A*S*H Christmas episode where Winchester in keeping with his Boston Tradition secretly has very expensive candy shipped to him so he can secretly give it to the local orphanage.

 

Not more than a day or to after he gives the secret gift, he finds staff members of the unit eating THAT candy. He is furious with the guy who runs the orphanage, because he meant that candy to be a gift for the children.

 

He confronts the guy who runs the orphanage in a huger burst of anger. The man then explains that he sold the candy so that he could use the funds to purchase several months of food for the children.

 

The point is, that people do things for many reasons those reasons are frequently not apparent. While I understand that it is the right of a person to make a coin, activate it and place restrictions on it. I still continue to wonder if it is worth all the grief it causes. This is not in any was to excuse anyone from not keeping an agreement, but I am thinking maybe a tiny bit of grace may be warranted.

 

My Thoughts!

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...I'm rather dissapointed to come home and read all this petty bickering that's been going on all day.

This thread stated in the very first post that this was to be a general discussion, and no one particular case was to be brought up. This last page has been anything but that. Unbelieveable.

 

Peace on earth begins at home. Make love, not war.

 

Some have asked me if I would make my own coin. Not on your life! Not if this is what it leads to. No thank you.

 

 

I agree 100% with Eartha. For those that wonder why the mods get riled up sometimes, re-read this thread. :laughing:

 

Thanks to those that have stayed on topic and respectfully disagreed with each other in a civil manner. We'll deal with those who haven't and will continue to rely on the community to report offensive posts.

 

Remember, we don't/can't read every post in every thread. PLEASE use the report button to bring issues to our attention so we can deal with them as soon as they happen. Do not pile on.

 

Sad that Eartha would never do a coin, but I can hardly fault her.

 

Let me be clear about one thing:

Nobody in here is right.

 

You all have your OPINIONS and are entitled to them. So does everybody else.

 

You can discuss what you think, what you like and what you believe - but nobody is in a position to say that "I am right and you are wrong".

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