General discussion about coin ownership

[+BlueDeuce]

True...but...let's use an example....purely hypothetical: Say you give someone a coin and tell them not to sell it. Say I want that coin real bad and I buy it from them. I got what I wanted...the coin in my collection. I really could care less about the icon or the trackability. Most people don't activate their coins anyway in their collections, so i fail to see why it'd matter what the web page said.

 

Okay, thanks. There are some nuances to coin trading. I'm not familiar with all the in and outs.

[+MustangJoni]

No...you have possession of it. Maybe that is 9/10 and all...but the coin page still lists another cacher as the "owner." Can't get around that one.

 

Again, I will repeat myself. The person may own the writing that is on the web page that lists the coin, but the person holding the coin is the owner of the coin.

 

Now...just to be clear, in those sale-restriction cases I believe that those coins should only be sold if you have to to take care of a family emergency or to otherwise care for your family.

 

Any other reason is low, indeed.

 

I don't know, if I have ownership of the coin page I pretty much control who gets to post a log. I could even request gc.com lock it down.

 

Granted this concept of giving a coin to someone and retaining the page ownership is an odd partnership to me.

 

True...but...let's use an example....purely hypothetical: Say you give someone a coin and tell them not to sell it. Say I want that coin real bad and I buy it from them. I got what I wanted...the coin in my collection. I really could care less about the icon or the trackability. Most people don't activate their coins anyway in their collections, so i fail to see why it'd matter what the web page said.

 

I do agree wholeheartedly with you on your final point, though.

 

But is that true that most people don't activate their coins?

 

I must confess...I love the icons!

[+LadyBee4T]

I agree wholeheartedly with the WWC and those that have expressed this view. I also like the analogy of leasing a car. If my name isn't on the coin page as the owner than I'm not whether it is in my possession or not. If you say you own the coin if it is in your possesion, then I guess when you pick up a traveling geocoin you own it. May as well add that one to your collection too.

 

Strawman.

 

We are talking about coins that are acquired in a legit manner. Just because one thinks that ownership belongs to the coin holder, it does not mean they are willing to snag travelers from caches.

 

If you trade for a coin, be it another geocoin or a bunch of George Washingtons, you own the coin you traded for.

 

Yes I agree those that are acquired in a legitimate manner. So I misspoke there....

 

But I believe that I only actually own the coin if I can be listed as the owner at the top of a cache page if it is a trackable coin. To me I compare it to home ownership. The bank actually owns my home but they want ME to live in it! So the CCC owns coin #155 but they want ME to look at it everyday while I read these forums.

[+ArtieD]

But is that true that most people don't activate their coins?

 

I must confess...I love the icons!

 

From a purely observational standpoint, I'd say that most don't at all from what I have seen here.

 

Indeed many of the icons are cute as all git-out. I view them (since I do activate my coins) as a welcome subset to my collection. Necessary? No. Fun? Yes.

[+nicolo]

...

If you agreed not to sell it, even if you took ownership, like say a gc.com volunteer coin, then you shouldn't sell it. And no next-day justification is going to make selling it acceptable.

That's the way I'd see it.

[+forthferalz]

 

Again, I will repeat myself. The person may own the writing that is on the web page that lists the coin, but the person holding the coin is the owner of the coin.

well no actually the activated Groundspeak trackables have an owner! That's the whole point - and Groundspeak lackeys themselves who issue these tracking numebrs and in effect authorise all the trackable coin designs you see play by these rules- they activated all the new diabetes coins and retain ownership. They may not care if it stays at your place or in your cache or your pocket though they'll chuck a wobbly if you try to sell one on.

[+forthferalz]

 

I guess the question I would like to ask those who place the restrictions on their coins is why do it, knowing how much grief and controversy it causes. (Not a judgment about it, but just curious; Also not disputing your right to put any restriction on your coins.)

 

to answer that - because initially I had no idea it caused grief and controversy until it came my way BECAUSE THE MODERATORS KEPT LOCKING DOWN THOSE THREADS AND BURYING THE ISSUE. I just thought that's what you did with your personal coin so you could 'join the club' because the person who told me how it all worked after stumbling through from ebay was moun10bike himself. Now I am not allowed to point you or any other unsuspecting poor newb who thinks their first trade only coin is going to be the ants pants to the relevant threads or this thread will go the same way - See? Sincerely hope SOME OF THIS MAKES IT TO THE SERIOUSLY ELDERLY PINNED INFORMATION AT THE TOP OF THE FORUM.

Edited November 9, 2007 by forthferalz

[+Jeep'en Jumpers]

I'd still like the answer as to why some people think their coins are so special they should be treated differently and held in higher regard than anothers coin might be.

 

My guess is that some folks have inflated egos, the occasional superiority complex.. maybe even narcissistic tendencies, and think pretty highly of themselves to begin with.

 

IMO, the truly special coins are ones given amongst friends, and regardless of wether or not it's a rare coin, the value is always greater.

 

How many people besides Moun10Bike and AJAYHAWKFAN have paid in full, the whole cost of their coins...not many? I think when someone puts up that kind of investment, they should be able to do pretty much what they want to do with their coin (if they have never been sold). I've given more coins to charity, friends, events and Caches then I've ever traded (91% or more). I'll still do some trades but like Moun10bike and AJAYHAWKFAN it's easier to control a coin if you don't want it sold. Last thing on my mind in making my coin was getting any kind of revenue from it or paying it down so I could afford trade coins. Most of the coins on my page, I've bought and I still have plenty to log but not the time. Anyone out there knows if we made a trade it's not to be sold, trade it away! I just never wanted it on ebay for some reason only to me. I think Jon with his Moun10bike coin the inventor of geocoins set a pace I liked. He's never sold a coin and I think that's pretty cool....he must have a big heart in the game to give all those away and I plan on doing the same thing! Have fun deciding what's right and wrong, what should be so simple can be chaos.

[+Dr. Whoever]

 

Again, I will repeat myself. The person may own the writing that is on the web page that lists the coin, but the person holding the coin is the owner of the coin.

..... they'll chuck a wobbly if you try to sell one on.

 

LOL.. not sure what that means but it sounds pretty cool! Is that like a hissy fit? Or is that a cricket term? or both?

 

I think that's the Webster's definition 57.

[+GEO*Trailblazer 1]

My opinions.

 

UH well that could take a while so I will be brief.

 

1. If you own the coin you own the coin.(All rights reserved).

2.If you made a trade with a stipulation honor that agreement.(Morals)Both parties.

 

A.If some one has stated or made it known that they do not want their coin sold,do not sell it.

B.If it is a mystery coin for the finder,it is for the finder and not to be sold.

If it were mine I would not mind if it were traded,but not sold.

[+NeverSummer]

I don't have a giant collection like some, but I have some feelings on the subject.

 

If a coin was activated by a person who either a)traded for it, and it was unactivated; or b)purchased directly from the outlet or individual designer/seller, the coin is "owned" by the activating person. If "ownership" is transferred, the same applies, pending agreements between the former and requesting owner about sale or ownership rights.

 

If I TRADE for or am GIFTED a coin that is already activated under ANYONE'S name, and they do not transfer ownership, the coin is still "owned" by the former. (Like the AJAYHAWKFAN coin he let me keep in my collection, based on some coin release terms)

 

If I PURCHASE an activated coin, it makes sense that I would then OWN the coin, unless I agree to "no sell" or "no transfer of ownership" terms with the previous owner. (This would put me in the position to only buy activated coins that I will not own and pay the owner for what they see as a fair price--ego inflated or not)

 

"No sell" or "No Transfer" agreements should follow the coin for every trade, ebay sale, purchase or gift from the point of first exchange from Activated coin or coin an owner assigns an agreement to--trackable, activated, or non-trackable.

 

One should not have a right to sell a coin on ebay if ownership is not transferred, the coin has a "no sale" agreement, or if you are not the person who activated the coin and have not contacted the "owner" before sale/trade.

 

Have a freakin' honor system! If I really wanted a M10B coin, I should be prepare to deal with all the established "rules" about having it in my collection. When I have found a coin in a cache that is activated and I want it for my collection, I either post a desired trade in the forum, contact the owner (of say, a M10B or AJAYHAWKFAN, etc coin), or get ready to pay for it on ebay or possibly find it on another seller website. If the coin is activated, it is not mine. It belongs to whoever activated it. The actions of the person who activated it should be based on the requests of the creator/original source of the coin. You don't sell some coins because the creator/designer/owner has asked that we don't...and so on.

 

Be honorable, or get out of coin collecting. Is it so hard to take your sale down if the owner has asked you to? Are we letting our traders know the rules of specific coins? Are the original owners protecting their creations?

 

I'm not going to buy an activated coin on ebay, no matter what the listing says. I will only get an activated coin person to person where I can have an open and honest conversation with the owner/activator without a looming auction or awkward contact process through most other websites.

 

Just my 2cents...

[TheNumber1Bop]

So basically the problem with the sale of coins on ebay is that it takes money or trade power from the producer of the coins hands. The buyers of these coins on eBay must really want the coins to pay the big bucks I've seen some of them go for. So rather than have them go to a party that is willing to pay dearly for them because they like them(or maybe they want more "trade power")..and the person selling them try to recoup some of their investment, they should be traded to someone for "unimportant" coins(the person trading "unimportant" coins gains a bigger trade item to barter with) or returned to the producer so they can use them for better trades or sell them personally. Is that about right?

[LoriDarlin]

I recently attended the Idaho Geocoin event which was a blast. At the event, I had a girl come up and look thru my traders and ask if I would trade one of mine for one of her coins. She had a "NARROW BRIDGE" COIN or maybe knows as Caching for Christ. I said sure and so we swapped.

 

Three weeks later I decided for some miraculous decision to activate this one (I usually don't do this) so guess what happened? Its activated under her name but with no logs on it.

 

Silly me, I thought everyone knew that you don't activate coins and then go try to trade them without letting the person you are trading know this. So I think...ok...she's a newb and doesn't know the correct policy. I have emailed her, sent her the adoption link and no response from her still. I'm bummed.

 

Who do I think is the owner of this coin in MY possession??? HER. sigh.

[+Renegade Knight]

I think it's pretty simple... if a coin is registered by an owner then it's private property. If you don't own it, you can't sell it. It doesn't matter who's holding it at the moment. You can borrow my _______ (fill in the blank), but you don't have the right to give it away or sell it for that matter without my permission. What's simpler than that?

 

Registration and ownership are two different things. By registration I assume you mean tracked here or somewhere else. Normally they go togther, but not always. Moun10bike being the classic example of someone who retains ownership of the tracking, but has given away the coins. (his request for not selling them not withstanding).

 

On the general topic:

 

When it comes to owning a coin, I won't accept a licensed coin. By that I mean if it comes with restrictions. My intention is to own them. If they are a gift with restrictions and provisions, it's not a gift. it's loan and I don't want to be in someones debt. Life has enough other worries to muck with the fun things not being fun.

[+Renegade Knight]

...Who do I think is the owner of this coin in MY possession??? HER. sigh.

 

You traded, you own it. It would be nice to get the tracking changed over but that's another thing.

[+9Key]

Yay! Finally a break from the endless cointests!

Sorry for the interruption, please continue with the discussion...

[+forthferalz]

so I agree some trade only's are also snob coins - but most others are not at all and these are very precious in my collection! I don't think the 'takes money or power' part is exactly right. If anything commanding a high price on ebay gives you more trade power! Having any coin in my collection go for eight times its purchase price instantly inflates my stock why would I want to kill it off!

 

It really is just to do with honour. Posting a coin off into a mailing system oblivion or leaving it in a cache takes some trust and it's the loss of innocence that hurts. I really feel so sorry for moun10bike - kids get their wee hearts a bit dented all the time over travel bugs ( heck mine cry even if it's not their bug!) and if you play geocaching I suspect your quite in tune with your inner kid.

 

I was really touched by my first trades and ebay auctions too (so funny I got the coins i wanted from losing an auction!) and that's what really got me adicted to geocoins. The bought ones are a bit no fun to collect on their own but nce to release - I have to get them to trade to make collecting fun and I have to post heaps here and make coins and so on.

 

Since then trading for a trade only or HTF or some VHTF coin is a way of testing the persons character to some extent. Aussies are notoriously 'anti snob' (vive le rupublic)

 

PS pardon the previous caps lock - that's chucking a wobbly or as generation Y say "getting woolly" - I have no idea what gen x says they are probably too to do either.

 

Get the hang of our slang - National - www.smh.com.au

And it originated in no lesser a place than the federal parliament, when one Senator admonished another to: "Stop chucking a wobbly, Senator. ...

www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/01/30/1075340827181.html

[+High n Low]

It sounds like there are relatively few coins that remain activated and "owned" by the coin designer/creator but apparently recent events have forced this issue to the front of forum discussions. I like the idea of abiding by the terms of your trade/purchase and if you don't like those terms don't trade/purchase.

[+tokencollector]

A few thoughts came to mind from the previous thread, that seem worth airing on this thread.

 

One concept that has been advanced is that the owner of the coin is the person listed as owner on the trackables page. While I would agree that that person is often the owner, being the “registered” owner is not necessarily the same thing as being the owner.

 

If the coin’s true owner (not a thief) trades (aka barters) or sells that coin for another without stipulations, the new person in possession of the coin is the owner. Period. The lack of registration of change of ownership on Geocaching.com does not mean that ownership did not change hands.

 

If someone trades a coin but insists on retaining “ownership,” then they have merely leased it to you. That seems like a gyp to me, but to each their own.

 

The concept that a coin in a collection is “yours” is also ludicrous. It is yours if it was legally obtained. Possession of stolen property does not make that property yours. If it was gifted to you, traded to you or purchased by you from the rightful owner, then it is yours. Though all might not agree, I think that the concept of TBs and caches as being abandoned property has been pretty well debunked in other threads.

 

In all cases, people should stick to their trade or purchase agreements. If you trade for a coin with the stipulation that it only be traded, not sold, then you should be honor bound, at a minimum, to respect that agreement.

 

Those are my opinions and I’m sticking with them – at least for now.

[+scuba dude]

Well, after reading every post in this, and it's locked cousin I am at a loss.

 

I just don't understand the idea behind "I give you this for that, but it's still mine and I say what happens."

 

I love the designs, and thought, and meaning that go into some of these coins. I am working on my own design, and deciding how many to have produced. But I can't fathom recieving all these coins that I funded, then registering all the numbers me and proclaiming that no one else gets to "own" them. Heck, I'd be proud by dadgum site if I saw one of my coins selling on Ebay for what I've seen some go for.

 

So can M10B, or JAYHAWK or JUMPINJEEP or any other who "trade" in this manner give an explanation? I'm new here, there could be aspects of these coins I don't understand yet.

Edited November 9, 2007 by scuba dude

[+welch]

But there is a difference here between trade only coins and a coin that you traded for, but never received the ownership of. Like the Moun10bike coins or the CCC coins. All Moun10bike coins are owned by him. Most of the CCC coins are owned by CCC (and those were gifts).

 

Again, if you have the coin in your collection, you own it.

And if I steal a car off the street and put in my garage, do I own that?

Yea ok coins don't have titles and such but its the same to me. Either I own it and can sell it, or I don't and can't unless I've got such things oked by the actual owner.

[+tokencollector]

What is the big deal? That’s the question that came to mind when looking at a recent spat between a coin seller and the person who produced the coin. At the risk of sounding inflammatory, why do some folks appear to have control issues? By that I mean trying to control the actions of a coin’s new owner once they have traded it away.

 

In one case, I actually think I do understand. The mystery coins have generously been gifted to the Geocaching community. I presume that the originators don’t want to see their generosity turn into someone else’s greed and profit.

 

On the other hand, if a coin is traded, the original owner profits from the trade through the receipt of a coin that they desire for their collection. Why does, or should the original owner care what the new owner does with the coin?

 

Please try to keep this thread from degrading into slamming other people’s motives. I really do want to understand why folks choose to place "trade only" and "do not sell" restrictions on their coins.

 

Edited to clarify last question.

Edited November 9, 2007 by tokencollector

[+ArtieD]

Well, I feel it is vastly unfair to expect one person to not sell a coin they traded for while the other person is free to do so.

[TheNumber1Bop]

No one's talking about stolen goods here. These are coins that were sold or traded...not stolen from anyone.

[+ArtieD]

No one's talking about stolen goods here. These are coins that were sold or traded...not stolen from anyone.

 

Thank you.

[TheNumber1Bop]

Well, I feel it is vastly unfair to expect one person to not sell a coin they traded for while the other person is free to do so.

 

I totally agree...

[+tokencollector]

I know that there are strong feelings on this issue. This thread was not meant to be about what is "right" and "wrong"

 

What I really hope this thread can do is helps folks (including me!) understand why the restrictions are in place.

[+welch]

It has to do with what sort of meanings give, trade, sale, lease, rent, etc have to different people. If someone (person 1) makes an agreement with someone else (person 2) and later p2 does something p1 thinks was outside whatever agreement they had, you end up with the angry threads seen. There are also cases in which the people either didn't deal with any sort of arrangement worked out, or did poor jobs of being clear on what each person expecations were ("I thought they meant this, but they really meant that...").

 

Please try to keep this thread from degrading into slamming other people’s motives. I really do want to understand why folks feel so strongly about “trade only” and “do not sell” restrictions.

There's probably lots of reasons for this, at least one would be that people sometimes form attachments. Hence the desire to do whatever possiable to ensure a coin (or whatever) is used in the 'correct' way. Not saying thats good or bad mind you, just that it seems to happen.

[+welch]

No one's talking about stolen goods here. These are coins that were sold or traded...not stolen from anyone.

Doesn't matter where you got it, if you don't have a legit claim to it (including the ability to sell it) it's not yours. Selling a coin that you traded for but never owned isn't cool. Its really like fox-and-the-hound said in the first couple posts... basically if you don't own it, you can't sell it!

[TheNumber1Bop]

What's the correct way to use a geocoin?

[TheNumber1Bop]

Who would ever trade for a coin if they were told that the one they were trading their coin for was just a loaner??? Has anyone ever been told that?

[+welch]

What's the correct way to use a geocoin?

Ask the person you bought that coin from

[+Bhob]

Try this for a litmus test -

Substitute "travel bug tag" for "geocoin" in whatever statement that you want to make

If it still sounds right, you are probably on the right track

 

May an un-activated travel bug tag be bought, sold and/or traded ? - Yes

May an un-activated geocoin be bought, sold and/or traded ? - Yes

 

May an activated travel bug tag be bought, sold and/or traded ? - No

May an activated geocoin be bought, sold and/or traded ? - No

 

An activated trackable item belongs to the person who activated it - period

(see the exception for adoption below)

 

If a person activates a trackable, they then have no right to sell or trade it

They may put it in a cache (to travel)

They may give it to someone

They may take it to an event, and share it via "discover"

They may keep it in their collection, and never tell a soul

But selling or trading it is trying to have your cake and eat it too

Attempting to sell or trade something while claiming that you retain ownership does not hold water

 

The only exception to this would be transfering ownership of a sold/traded trackable via the adoption process

But that just means that all of the above still applies to the new owner

[TheNumber1Bop]

When I purchase an item of any kind...I do what I wish with it.....whether that be sell it, trade it, give it away or keep it.

[TheNumber1Bop]

Try this for a litmus test -

Substitute "travel bug tag" for "geocoin" in whatever statement that you want to make

If it still sounds right, you are probably on the right track

 

May an un-activated travel bug tag be bought, sold and/or traded ? - Yes

May an un-activated geocoin be bought, sold and/or traded ? - Yes

 

May an activated travel bug tag be bought, sold and/or traded ? - No

May an activated geocoin be bought, sold and/or traded ? - No

 

An activated trackable item belongs to the person who activated it - period

(see the exception for adoption below)

 

If a person activates a trackable, they then have no right to sell or trade it

They may put it in a cache (to travel)

They may give it to someone

They may take it to an event, and share it via "discover"

They may keep it in their collection, and never tell a soul

But selling or trading it is trying to have your cake and eat it too

Attempting to sell or trade something while claiming that you retain ownership does not hold water

 

The only exception to this would be transfering ownership of a sold/traded trackable via the adoption process

But that just means that all of the above still applies to the new owner

I think this is a great summation! Thanks Bhob.

[+tokencollector]

What is the big deal? That’s the question that came to mind when looking at a recent spat between a coin seller and the person who produced the coin.

 

The original premise for my question may have been poorly stated. I understand the reason for the disagreement. I don't understand the reason for placing restrictions on what is done with the coins after they have been traded away.

 

Unfortunately my choice of language in the first post is colored by my opinion of restrictions. However, my goal is to better understand them.

Edited November 9, 2007 by tokencollector

[+dflye]

I think there are several issues at hand....

 

If you are GIFTED a coin that is ACTIVATED by the person who gave you the coin (and they won't adopt it to you), while you may "own" the physical coin, the person who granted the gift still has control over the trackability of the coin. For non-trackables, this is a moot point. So while you may be able to sell the metal, you may have a tough time keeping the icon to go with it!

 

If you TRADED for a coin that is ACTIVATED by the person you traded with, and if they do not IMMEDIATELY adopt that coin to you, you are either trading with an ego-cacher, a shyster (when the coin in question isn't their personal coin), or one who thinks they can change the world through their actions with their one specific personal coin.

[+Bhob]

Here is a proposal . . .

 

Un-activated trackable items (and non-trackable items, too, for that matter) are considered "merchandise", and may be bought, sold, traded, bartered, etc according to the whims, wills and agreements amongst the parties involved

 

Activated trackable items are considered "registered", and are owned by the person named on the GeoCaching.com page for that item

 

Such owned items may be sold or traded, but only by the owner, and with the understanding that ownership will be passed to the new owner via the GC.com adoption process

 

Any other possession of an activated/registered/owned trackable item is considered "temporary stewardship", and is subject to the wishes of the owner - eg, "visit all 50 US states", "be shared at events", "go to a high mountain top", "reside in your collection, if you so desire", etc, etc, etc

 

(note that "temporary" may very well mean "a long time")

 

Under no circumstances may an activated trackable item be bought, sold and/or traded by anyone other than it's registered owner, and in the event of such a transaction, the current owner will transfer ownership to the new owner

 

Un-activated (non-registered, not owned) trackable items and non-trackable items may be sold, bought and/or traded freely - such items should have their status accurately described prior to the transaction

 

eBay items offered for sale would fall into three categories -

1. trackable, un-activated - (or non-trackable)

2. activated/registered/owned by the seller, adoption promised at the conclusion of the sale

3. if neither of the above, invalid

 

An activated trackable item would be available for all to see, it's owner would be identified, and the rules for how it is to be treated would be public knowledge

 

Those people wishing to construct different agreements would keep their trackable items un-activated

 

- - - -

 

Most of this is both common sense and common knowledge

The above simply formalizes what many already agree should be the case

 

Obviously, all of this would have to be on the "honor system"

There is no practical way to enforce such guidelines

But there is the possibility of "social pressure"

Don't bid on eBay items if they go outside the rules

"Lock" items that do not comply with the guidelines

etc

[+keewee]

When I purchase an item of any kind...I do what I wish with it.....whether that be sell it, trade it, give it away or keep it.

 

I think the key word you used here was purchase.

 

The conflicts do not generally occur over these. It is the coins that can only be [originally] acquired by trading with the person who made them, or coins that were generously left in caches (generally mystery coins) for others to find.

[+dflye]

To further quality on the trade end of the spectrum, the most restrictive coins are the trade-only coins where to seal the deal you must in exchange bring to the table a coin that was never available for sale (some quibble over commercial sales vs personal run sales)

 

While I can understand trade only coins, and gifted coins where the owner retains ownership, I really don't get the whole concept of trading for a coin and NOT getting ownership of the trackable I traded for. To me, that is somewhere between lunacy and fraud.

 

Gifting coins with strings attached is one thing, but "trading" where you retain ownership rights to the traded goods....i think the non-PC term is "Indian giving"

[+whitebear]

I think most of the cases that people get upset are where they have gifted or almost gifted a limited run coin to someone & then the person stick it on the e place . Most people would like the chance to get the coin back as many are coins that ran out long ago.

Just my $ .02 worth.

[+Rockin Roddy]

Right or wrong, a deal is made, you should honor that deal! If you didn't "agree" with the deal in the first place, you shouldn't have MADE the deal and the coin would never have been in your hands to be sold. (YOU here is a generalization)

 

Some coins aren't meant to be sold on ebay (M10B, CCC etc), the coin in the thread that brought this up is one of those! When I traded for mine, I was told it wasn't to be sold (and that the "ownership" would remain with the originator of the coin). Since I'd NEVER sell my coin anyway, it didn't matter to me (but I would have liked the icon on the owner side).

 

It doesn't matter much to me now as mine has "walked off"...too sad! :-(

Edited November 9, 2007 by Rockin Roddy

[+mousekakat]

The way I see it, especially with the gifted or trade only coin is like this.

 

Someone put thought, work, imagination and yes, money, into the coin. I don't know if you've (the collective you, not anyone in particular) have checked to see what it costs to mint a coin, but it ain't cheap.

 

If someone goes through the blood, sweat and tears of it all and makes a gift of it or even a trade, then I think that it would be pretty insulting to them to turn around and sell it for a profit for yourself when they themselves made no profit on it whatsoever.

 

I'd be pretty pissed if I gave someone something that cost me a bit to make or obtain and they turned around and sold it for a profit.

 

Pissed and hurt.

 

Naomi

[+joranda]

My thought is that if you recieve a mystery coin, it is a gift, it didn't cost you anything. You should keep it, not sell it and make a pofit off it. If you don't want it anymore, you should send it back. As far as the other coins go, what ever deal you made for it you should honor it. Just don't make up a deal for it knowing you will never follow through with it. I know someone putting there comment on here is two faced as with what I just said. What ever way they want to make it work for them. They go to what ever means to get a coin. I like coins too, but I don't make it my driving force to get them. If I end up with something special, I cherish it and move on. I don't let it get in the way of my caching, what geocaching is really all about. You can tell the cacher from the collector. One of them sits in front of this thing all day looking for one while the other is looking for the other and there count goes up. Let's enjoy this for what is relly supposed to be about. CACHING!

[+Eartha]

Flying Spaghetti Monster opened a thread for this discussion yesterday. I am merging the two.

[+tadpole379]

Mystery coins are gifts to the coin community that can be attained generally from finding one in a cache, or by receiving one in the mail from the mystery person. A mailed mystery coin is a true gift to a specific person, and that coin should NEVER be sold or traded for profit. If a mailed mystery coin is no longer wanted, it should be left in a cache for someone else to find, or gifted to another cacher. If a mystery coin is found in a cache, it should be traded for, usually for another unactivated coin. That mystery coin, like a mailed mystery coin should not be sold or traded for profit. Yes, you traded one coin to get it (the coin left in the cache), so if someone decides they do not want the mystery coin anymore, they should gift it to someone else, leave it in a cache, or trade it for a single coin. I think it is absurd that people will offer and accept a pile of coins for a mystery coin that they got for free or traded one coin to get. That is pure personal profit and is no better than selling the coin outright for cash.

 

I think this applies whether or not the coin is question is trackable, nontrackable, activated, or unactivated if it is a mystery or an anonymous gift coin.

[+MustangJoni]

I know that there are strong feelings on this issue. This thread was not meant to be about what is "right" and "wrong"

 

What I really hope this thread can do is helps folks (including me!) understand why the restrictions are in place.

 

A long time ago, when coins first started, people only made personal coins or organization coins. The organization coins were sold to raise money for the organization. The personal coins were made, but made only to trade each other with or a signature items to place in caches.

 

Moun10bike had the first personal coin that was trackable on GC. He activated all his and started placing them in caches. Since he was the first, people took this as cue that this was how it was done. He traded for coins, but you knew if you wanted his coin, it would be activated in his account. This was the deal, you took it or left it.

 

Only a couple of other people decided to do this. So far, that I know of, I think 3 other people do this for trade, and the CCCs are done as gifts. The GS Volunteer Coins are done like this, and originally the GS Lackey coins were also done like this.

 

I believe several people saw it as a way to keep their coins off ebay. They had a serious distaste for seeing coins that were only traded, end up on ebay. So this was a way to keep them off that site, for the most part. I know when most of these coins were made, you had to make 500 coins to have an icon. So that is quite an investment

 

Now, you can debate if the practice is right or wrong. Quite frankly, I haven't traded my coins for a coin that is owned by someone else. But I would certainly trade for a Moun10bike or an Ajayhawks fan in a second. But I certainly wouldn't trade for one of these coins, then find the practice distasteful and unfair. I would keep my word.

[+ArtieD]

No one's talking about stolen goods here. These are coins that were sold or traded...not stolen from anyone.

 

Doesn't matter where you got it, if you don't have a legit claim to it (including the ability to sell it) it's not yours. Selling a coin that you traded for but never owned isn't cool. Its really like fox-and-the-hound said in the first couple posts... basically if you don't own it, you can't sell it!

 

Um...if I traded for it...went through all the motions...gave the person a coin or multiple coins for the one or more coins I received...then I own it. There are no ifs, ands or buts.

 

I cannot see why you think the person holding it has no legit claim to it. You didn't steal it. You got it legit. It's yours. Thinking any other way is foolish and out of touch with reality.

 

I own every coin in my collection. There are a few that have different "owners" according to a web page and as such I do respect their wishes as stated. However, respecting their wishes does not mean I don't own the coin in question.

[+ArtieD]

I think there are several issues at hand....

 

If you are GIFTED a coin that is ACTIVATED by the person who gave you the coin (and they won't adopt it to you), while you may "own" the physical coin, the person who granted the gift still has control over the trackability of the coin. For non-trackables, this is a moot point. So while you may be able to sell the metal, you may have a tough time keeping the icon to go with it!

 

If you TRADED for a coin that is ACTIVATED by the person you traded with, and if they do not IMMEDIATELY adopt that coin to you, you are either trading with an ego-cacher, a shyster (when the coin in question isn't their personal coin), or one who thinks they can change the world through their actions with their one specific personal coin.

 

Amen, mah brotha. Preach on.

[+MustangJoni]

I think there are several issues at hand....

 

If you are GIFTED a coin that is ACTIVATED by the person who gave you the coin (and they won't adopt it to you), while you may "own" the physical coin, the person who granted the gift still has control over the trackability of the coin. For non-trackables, this is a moot point. So while you may be able to sell the metal, you may have a tough time keeping the icon to go with it!

 

If you TRADED for a coin that is ACTIVATED by the person you traded with, and if they do not IMMEDIATELY adopt that coin to you, you are either trading with an ego-cacher, a shyster (when the coin in question isn't their personal coin), or one who thinks they can change the world through their actions with their one specific personal coin.

 

Amen, mah brotha. Preach on.

 

But if you know that you are trading for an activated coin, then you got what you wanted. The coin in your collection. No matter what his or her motive is, if you accept that coin, you have accepted that fact.