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General discussion about coin ownership


Flying Spaghetti Monster

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This thread is starting to feel somewhat surreal to me

Sort of like the old "How many angels can dance on the head of a pin" discussion

 

Just about everybody agrees what ethical behavior is

(honor agreements, don't take what is not yours, respect others, etc)

 

Just about everybody agrees that there is no practical means of enforcement

(even if we did manage to all agree on something)

 

The last hundred or so posts, for the most part, seem to be -

"I would never do that . . . but what if somebody else did ?"

 

To which I would reply -

"Horray for you, you are an honorable person . . . but there is not much that either of us can do about the few non-honorable people out there"

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IMO, the "strings" associated with the original transaction actually become part of the geocoin. This is how conditions work with other types property. For example, when we acquired our current home it came with "encroachment agreements." For a variety of reasons, part of our neighbor's retaining wall was actally on our property; the previous owners & neighbors had written a mutually acceptable agreement allowing this. When we bought the property, we had to agree to abide by the previous owner's commitment. This would have been the case weather we bought it, inherited it, or won it on a bet; we would not have been allowed to own the house without also agreeing to the previous owner's "strings."

All very sound and reasonable

However, in your example, when the house is sold, the deed is transferred

The sticky point in much of this discussion seems to be that some people would like to sell you the coin, but add a "string" that lets them keep the deed (ownership on GC.com)

Edited by Bhob
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All very sound and reasonable

However, in your example, when the house is sold, the deed is transfered

The sticky point in much of this discussion seems to be that some people would like to sell you the coin, but add a "string" that lets them keep the deed (ownership on GC.com)

 

You are correct. I guess I am referring to unactivated, non-trackable, or adopted coins where there is no ambiguity about possession and ownership.

 

On this issue of ownership, I have a a car analogy. :o From the beginning this thread reminded me of something I witnessed many years ago at the city of St. Louis, MO impound lot . I was there with a friend. His car had been towed and we had come to retrieve it. On that morning there was only one guy working behind the plexiglass in the little trailer. As a result, we got to hear many sad stories before he could pay his fine and drive his car out of the lot. Just in front of us was a young woman who wanted to pick up a car that had been towed there after a fender bender. This was not her first attempt to retrieve her car. The problem? Seems she was not the "registered owner" of the auto. According to the city & state her father was the rightful owner of the car. Second problem? Her father was deceased, and had been so for some time. Despite the fact that the woman had an insurance policy for the car and had paid the most recent registration (she had brought receipts on this trip) and was driving the car at the time of the accident, the guy in the coveralls wouldn't budge. Ownership had never been properly transferred; the car wasn't hers and she couldn't have it back. She left without "her" car.

 

When it comes to geocoins. I consider those that are trackable and activated, to be "registered" to the owner listed on the tracking page, period. I believe that to be the case weather the coin is in a cache, is traveling or is sitting in the binder of another cacher. For me there is little difference between "activated" and "registered." In fact I've seen ebay listing for geocoins that specifically say "unregistered." That's just my opinion (and we all know what they say about opinions). :rolleyes:

 

jrr

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I think that there is another point here that also needs elaborating on for us unethical people out here.

 

I feel like everyone is saying that if someone recieved a "strings attached" coin it would be better for them to trade the coin rather than selling it. Is this correct?

 

question 2: What if the original coin owner and I had a falling out(not about coins) and are no longer talking in order for me to trade it back to them. Would it then be okay for me to trade it to someone else?

 

Disclaimer

**These are both hypothetical points and are no way related to the current dibacle(sp) that I encountered. Ethics and morality are just a couple of hobbies of mine I guess you could say.

 

Question 1: Yes, if there were conditions with the coin, then I think the right thing to do is trade the coin rather than selling it, and pass on the conditions to the next person. (Yes, I think that if a coin has been dubbed a "do not sell", then it shouldn't matter how many times it's traded, that condition goes along with it.)

 

Question 2: Yes, I think that if trading it back to the owner is not an option then trading with someone else is fine, once again, as long as the do not sell is forwarded.

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I have antoher question along these same lines (I will use myself as an example so I don't have to use the word "you")

 

I have a trade only coin that came with the strings attached of "not to be sold" I see that the originator of the coin has now sold it himself/herself. Not for charity. Does that now mean that the strings to my coin have been cut and I would be free to sell it too?

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I think I'm going to have to unsubscribe to this thread - my head hurts.

 

I've come to the conclusion that no matter what I say or do I have no control of what other say or do. I can only control my own thoughts (when my wife and kids let me). When I get my own personal coins and gift them or trade them, I will do it with the thought that the giftee will do what they feel is right. If they feel that selling the coin is in their best interest then so be it - I would rather they thoguht enough of them that they didn't sell them but again, I feel it's out of my control.

 

I will end my connection to the coin when it leaves my hands otherwise it will just drive me crazy thinking about what coulda, shoulda, woulda happened if I didn't. I don't want to lose sight of why I feel the need to give or trade my coins in the first place. Of course this is all dependent on me getting my own coins but I think it's a matter of when and not if.

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I have antoher question along these same lines (I will use myself as an example so I don't have to use the word "you")

 

I have a trade only coin that came with the strings attached of "not to be sold" I see that the originator of the coin has now sold it himself/herself. Not for charity. Does that now mean that the strings to my coin have been cut and I would be free to sell it too?

 

Like RR said, I personally would contact the originator before selling. If that person said, s/he still expected me to abide by the no sell agreement, I wouldn't sell the coin, though my opinion of the originator might change in a hurry. (Depending on why s/he was now selling trade only coins). (Sometime I think half the angst around here is really just a failure to communicate.)

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I have antoher question along these same lines (I will use myself as an example so I don't have to use the word "you")

 

I have a trade only coin that came with the strings attached of "not to be sold" I see that the originator of the coin has now sold it himself/herself. Not for charity. Does that now mean that the strings to my coin have been cut and I would be free to sell it too?

What they do with their coins is their choice. The only thing I need to worry about is my personal agreement about a coin. If I made an agreement not to sell it, then very little will ever change that.

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I have antoher question along these same lines (I will use myself as an example so I don't have to use the word "you")

 

I have a trade only coin that came with the strings attached of "not to be sold" I see that the originator of the coin has now sold it himself/herself. Not for charity. Does that now mean that the strings to my coin have been cut and I would be free to sell it too?

What they do with their coins is their choice. The only thing I need to worry about is my personal agreement about a coin. If I made an agreement not to sell it, then very little will ever change that.

 

But if the coin has been sold by the originator, it is no longer a trade only coin.

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But if the coin has been sold by the originator, it is no longer a trade only coin.

Yup - that is the point

How can you, with a straight face, sell something to somebody, then insist that they not re-sell it

 

And, I see no real difference with trading

How is exchanging a ten-dollar bill for a geocoin any different from exchanging a geocoin (valued at ten dollars) for that same geocoin ?

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I have antoher question along these same lines (I will use myself as an example so I don't have to use the word "you")

 

I have a trade only coin that came with the strings attached of "not to be sold" I see that the originator of the coin has now sold it himself/herself. Not for charity. Does that now mean that the strings to my coin have been cut and I would be free to sell it too?

What they do with their coins is their choice. The only thing I need to worry about is my personal agreement about a coin. If I made an agreement not to sell it, then very little will ever change that.

 

But if the coin has been sold by the originator, it is no longer a trade only coin.

The coin I traded with him for is. The coin he sold was his to do with as he saw fit. If he choose to sell that coin, that was his choice. I didn't agree not to sell that coin.

 

I think the difference is in the use of the words "the coin". To me it is one single coin, and that is what I based my answer on. The one I received. To some it is a general "the coin" menaing the whole run.

 

That being said, if I trade a coin for a coin then it is mine to do as I see fit. I traded you either money, goods, services, or another coin for yours, so that is my property. Now if you received this coin through a gift of some sorts without giving something in return, you need to honor anything you agreed to at that time.

 

Trade only to me is nothing more than a term of how you can aquire the coin. It doesn't mean that is the only means that coin can be aquired from others, just from the original provider.

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I think that no matter how much discussion goes on about this subject, here or in any previous or following thread, you can talk till you're blue in the face, make all the "rules and standards" ya want. There are people that will refuse to comply, no matter what. And that will inevitably piss people off and inflame the ones that set the rules. When you try to control something that's not in your control, you are gonna have issues. Sure there will be the ones that play well with others ...but there will also be the yang to that yin.. it may suck but that's just the nature of the beast. If the original producers of the coins didn't think they had thick enough skin to handle someone breaking their rules, they'd have played their cards differently, and made different rules. I have several coins in my collection that have special requirements, I do my best to honor the rules, thats just me. Baaa...

I agree with you on this one.

 

I don't think this thread is changing anybody's mind. But what it has done for me is open my eyes.

 

And I know that although I will honor my word when it comes to the deals I made when I received coins, I will not put the "no sales" clause on my new personal coins. I will not sell it. In fact, I've decided that they will only be gifts. And no strings are going to be attached to them. I will be disappointed if they end up on ebay, but I will live through it!

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I think that no matter how much discussion goes on about this subject, here or in any previous or following thread, you can talk till you're blue in the face, make all the "rules and standards" ya want. There are people that will refuse to comply, no matter what. And that will inevitably piss people off and inflame the ones that set the rules. When you try to control something that's not in your control, you are gonna have issues. Sure there will be the ones that play well with others ...but there will also be the yang to that yin.. it may suck but that's just the nature of the beast. If the original producers of the coins didn't think they had thick enough skin to handle someone breaking their rules, they'd have played their cards differently, and made different rules. I have several coins in my collection that have special requirements, I do my best to honor the rules, thats just me. Baaa...

I agree with you on this one.

 

I don't think this thread is changing anybody's mind. But what it has done for me is open my eyes.

 

And I know that although I will honor my word when it comes to the deals I made when I received coins, I will not put the "no sales" clause on my new personal coins. I will not sell it. In fact, I've decided that they will only be gifts. And no strings are going to be attached to them. I will be disappointed if they end up on ebay, but I will live through it!

 

AMEN BROTHA and SISTA!

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I think that no matter how much discussion goes on about this subject, here or in any previous or following thread, you can talk till you're blue in the face, make all the "rules and standards" ya want. There are people that will refuse to comply, no matter what. And that will inevitably piss people off and inflame the ones that set the rules. When you try to control something that's not in your control, you are gonna have issues. Sure there will be the ones that play well with others ...but there will also be the yang to that yin.. it may suck but that's just the nature of the beast. If the original producers of the coins didn't think they had thick enough skin to handle someone breaking their rules, they'd have played their cards differently, and made different rules. I have several coins in my collection that have special requirements, I do my best to honor the rules, thats just me. Baaa...

You and me - sheeple together. Anyone else? :rolleyes:

 

Most coins dont come with conditions, so you can do what you want with them. Some coins do - I happily accept conditions if I really want the coin - but then I only have one coin in that 'Do Not Sell' category.

 

That one, and my mystery coins will be given away to another cacher if I ever get tired of collecting (as if).

 

I tend to agree that if you are in dire need of the cash, maybe you shouldn't be spending it all on coins so you dont have money in an emergency. Unfortunately, addicted people (and sheeple) need their fix, and cant have spare cash lying about when there's coin to be had. Sad but true.

 

What interests me though, is why are people allowed to sell other people's 'special' geocoins on eBay if it is for charity, but they are lambasted if it is for themselves?

 

Maybe we all need a cup of tea, a bex, and a good lie down? :o

 

Vive la difference!

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Well the subject sounds easy enough, I know from first hand not that easy. I had a someone ask if they could exchange a coin that they received in a trade that was already activated. thinking double tracking numbers. When I receive the coin turned out to be marked as unknown, lost out of a cache. I contacted the owner of the coin and logged in and out of a cache for miles then mailed back to the owner. I have about ten coins MIA and some are sitting in collections. I know when you set something free you can't expect it to come back. As for coins it seems that ours have a life of six months then they are gone. I get the worth of the coin out of showing our kids on a map where their travelbugs or geocoins have traveled. It does make me think a little before dropping another geocoin in a cache, but I'll keep doing it. I just hope the people that keep the coins enjoy them then someday set them free again. Just my 2 cents.

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How many people besides Moun10Bike and AJAYHAWKFAN have paid in full, the whole cost of their coins...not many? I think when someone puts up that kind of investment, they should be able to do pretty much what they want to do with their coin (if they have never been sold).

It would be interesting to find out how many people have funded personal coins solely out of pocket. We have done six versions. All without any commercial assistance (unless you wan to count Uncle Sam and his occasional refunds :rolleyes: )

 

BTW, the quote is from post #59 by jeep'en jumpers

 

As a coin maker, I can tell you that there are a bunch of people out there who have made an funded their own person coins and not put them up for sale. I think you would be supprised by the number of them. But most have not preactivated them, and most even if not happy with them being sold on Ebay, just let it go, feeling that having a fight about it is not worth the hassle / strained relationships.

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Fun fact, that may have some relevance to this discussion

 

The "Oscar" statues given out at the Academy Awards have a "string" attached to them

(or, at least, they have had since 1950)

The Academy has the right to buy the statue back from you for $1 before it goes on the open market

(you sign an agreement to this effect before they will give it to you)

This explains why you do not often see an "Oscar" for sale on eBay (or anywhere else)

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How many people besides Moun10Bike and AJAYHAWKFAN have paid in full, the whole cost of their coins...not many? I think when someone puts up that kind of investment, they should be able to do pretty much what they want to do with their coin (if they have never been sold).

It would be interesting to find out how many people have funded personal coins solely out of pocket. We have done six versions. All without any commercial assistance (unless you wan to count Uncle Sam and his occasional refunds :rolleyes: )

 

BTW, the quote is from post #59 by jeep'en jumpers

 

As a coin maker, I can tell you that there are a bunch of people out there who have made an funded their own person coins and not put them up for sale. I think you would be supprised by the number of them. But most have not preactivated them, and most even if not happy with them being sold on Ebay, just let it go, feeling that having a fight about it is not worth the hassle / strained relationships.

 

I don't think anybody preactivates their coins anymore. I think a few people did, and they had their reasons for doing it. I'm not going to fault them for doing it. I just choose not to. Actually, the biggest reason I won't do it is because I don't want an email everytime someone logs a coin in someone else's collection! LOL

 

I even hate all the emails I get when someone logs my coins, but I deal with it!

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Don't be so stunned. It's not that shocking. That's probably the first time I ever voiced any opinion about coins, and what I perhaps should have said, what I wanted to mean, was that if I trade a coin for a coin, if I make a fair value trade, then I would want the ownership. I wouldn't make a trade that had restrictions. But I don't trade, so I don't know what I'd do with the coins in the long run. I had just read this thread and when I wrote that, and I was thinking and writing really fast. Sorry if you don't want my opinion. It won't happen again, you can rest assured. It's just nearly impossible to have any control over things you let go of. I hope I didn't ruin your day.

 

Quite the opposite. I quite honestly want and even need your opinion as I've already responded. You're entirely correct in wanting ownership for a fair value trade. The point of contention seems to be what you're trading for: ownership or possession. -_-

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If you have issues or think that an account is a sock puppet, report the post and the the moderators and Groundspeak deal with it. Do NOT take this thread off topic and make accusations - I think Eartha and I have been very patient and lenient in this thread so far - maybe to our error.

 

So I'm going to be very clear about this:

Future posts that are off-topic will result in a suspension of posting rights.

 

5c90f7af-225c-465b-a2cd-464bcb540493.jpg

 

Hopefully that is clear.

 

So it appears that we have a few strong opinions in here:

1) If you trade for a coin, you own it. Period.

2) If you trade for a coin, you should honor the restrictions on the coin - or not trade at all.

3) There seems to be some latitude in people's thoughts about ownership, possession and tracking.

 

I think that this is an interesting scenario and bears further discussion:

Say I trade Son of Cyclops for his rare coin and give him 4 of mine. Now I agree to the "no sell" deal and will honour it. A year later I trade Sons coin for a world famous Red Ninja's coin - trade, not sell which I understand is still an okay option. The new 'owner' then turns around and sells the Son of Cyclops coin on ebay.

 

Now, is that okay for the new owner to do? If so why is that any different than me selling the coin (which in reality I did anyway by trading it). I understand about the agreement part but it appears the selling of ones coins are the issue here. So is it a concern no matter who sells it? Was it within my rights to trade that coin to the other collector in the first place? If I no longer wanted the Son of Cyclops coin in a year from now am I entitled to get my coins back from Cylcops - I mean since it was only a loaner coin anyway right?

 

If I can summarize (hopefully correctly):

If the original recipient of a coin with "strings" honors those "strings", does a subsequent owner of said coin have to honor that as well? Afterall, the agreement was between the person who originally got the coin from the owner/maker, etc.

 

Please check your email when you get a chance in regards to a poster on this thread. Thank you.

Edited by tsunrisebey
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Everyone has different opinions. Everyone is unique.

 

Can't we all just hug each other? :anicute:

 

:lol: Okay, I'll give you a big squishy one right after you read this little quote from Law.com:

 

In civil law consider Law.com’s definition of “possession”. It has

very little to do with OWNERSHIP at all:

 

The phrase “possession is nine-tenths of the law” does not imply that

any person who holds any property is the rightful owner. To the

contrary…what it does imply is that any person who is in possession of

his RIGHTFULLY OWNED PROPERTY is the sole controller of that property

and may do whatsoever he wishes without regard to what any one else

wishes.

 

“n. 1) any article, object, asset or property which one owns,

occupies, holds or has under control. 2) the act of owning, occupying,

holding or having under control an article, object, asset or property.

"Constructive possession" involves property which is not immediately

held, but which one has the right to hold and the means to get (such

as a key to a storeroom or safe deposit box). "Criminal possession" is

the holding of property which it is illegal to possess such as

controlled narcotics, stolen goods or liquor by a juvenile. The old

adage "possession is nine-tenths of the law" is a rule of force and

not of law, since ownership requires the right to possess as well as

actual or constructive possession.”

 

So basically, you need the actual possession (coin) along with the "right" to own it (registration at Groundspeak labels your coins as "owned").

 

I don't know if I ever made it clear, but I have no problem at all with activating a coin and sending it off to someone else to enjoy and show off in their collection. I'd love to receive possession of a coin under the same circumstances and consider it an honor to do so no matter what their stipulations entailed. I just wouldn't deceive myself into believing it was mine unless they told me it was and gave me the registration with the coin to prove it. If they trusted me enough to honor their wishes, why would they need to hold onto the registration? -_-

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I think that there is another point here that also needs elaborating on for us unethical people out here.

 

I feel like everyone is saying that if someone recieved a "strings attached" coin it would be better for them to trade the coin rather than selling it. Is this correct?

 

question 2: What if the original coin owner and I had a falling out(not about coins) and are no longer talking in order for me to trade it back to them. Would it then be okay for me to trade it to someone else?

 

Disclaimer

**These are both hypothetical points and are no way related to the current dibacle(sp) that I encountered. Ethics and morality are just a couple of hobbies of mine I guess you could say.

 

What if the original owner said he was still willing to negotiate a return but the other owner doesn't reply. In fact it doesn't matter at all as I'll send them their coin free regardless if there is a return on the other one. I've got the e-mail to prove it, just as I have an agreement to the possession of the coin someone has.

I have to agree if you send a coin out and there name is on it, they are the owner and no one can do anything about it. If it's traded to someone and that someone trades it, the other owner can very well sell it but hope they understand the coins developer. Things have changed so much in a short time! My thinking of a coin was to share with others as TB's, float around and have different people log them, enjoy a new icon and pass it along. So many disappear but that's not to get upset about, the person who took that can not share with anyone else and what good is that? The best one's I got travel to meet new friends, to log and share a new journey. If this is about who owns a coin regardless if it's gifted, traded, sold or whatever belongs to the name on the page after that it's just a hunk of metal, mine or anyone else's. I don't have and ego or think my coin is any better than anyone's out there. I purchase those coins because I like them but mine is not for sale, I wish it only to trade but can see the problem with that also now.

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If I can summarize (hopefully correctly):

If the original recipient of a coin with "strings" honors those "strings", does a subsequent owner of said coin have to honor that as well? Afterall, the agreement was between the person who originally got the coin from the owner/maker, etc.

 

If such an agreement were struck between the original traders, then no, the third person should not be obligated to comply.

 

I disagree, if I had received a 'no sell' coin in trade, I have an obligation to honour that request, if I subsequently traded that coin on again it would only be to someone who also agreed to honour that condition. If that person then failed to honour the 'no sell' agreement - well they wouldn't get any more trades from me for certain sure. If I traded the coin on without any strings attached I would be in breach of the obligation I took on when receiving the coin.

 

Unfortunately there are always going to be the minority who spoil things for the majority, lets not loose sight of the fact that they are a minority. On balancee we have a great opportunity to connect with people all over the world, and the majority of people, the majority of the time, do the right thing. IMHO.

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I see it quite simply really. When you type in a geocoins tracking number into geocaching.com it says at the top owner:...

 

Simple as that really! If the coin hasn't been activated then it's yours (the person holding it) and possesion is 9/10ths of the law. (I think leaglly you would have to hand it into the police if you "found" an unactivated geocoin, however I think there is a precedent that things in geocaches other that activated trackables are "trades")

 

However, if the coin is registered then the person who regisered it is the "owner" If you retain the coin whilst not being the owner you are stealing it! If you pay the owner to have it in your collection then you are leasing it subject to any terms that are agreed. Personally I can;t see the fun in possesing a coin that I don't actually own.

 

I would apply a caveat to all of this though - If the owner allows a coin out of there physical possesion by either putting it in a cache or leanding/leasing it to someone then they accept the fact that they no longer retain control over that coin (similar to you crashing a lease car - tough!) they may be able to deactivate the coin's tracking number, but the person who has the coin probably doesn't care really!! I don't feel ANY coin is worth trading for if I'm not going to be able to own it - i.e have the option of activating it myself.

Edited by kifcog
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Sorry, turned in early last night...did I miss anything? -_- Ooops, nope. I guess we're right where I left off!

 

I know there are two upset "owners" of coins in here, I hope the differences can be sidelined long enough to do what's right and return each others' coins...it would be the proper thing to do (and you'd likely "save face" in the eyes of others who do know what is going on...me, I don't judge people...in this case at least...but this "behind-the-scenes" conflict isn't overly hidden). I've seen a desire to "work it out", maybe it's still possible? Good luck!

 

Sorry....back to the discussion on hand. I grew weak last night, I'm back with a renewed feeling of power. Possession doesn't mean it's yours.

 

I was proud to have possession of my "strings attached" coin, I didn't care that it wasn't truly mine as long as I had one in my collection which I could share with friends and enjoy looking at! Since the coin was DEDICATED to me, it was even more special! I also had no qualms trading my coin for a coin with "strings attached", I wanted the other person to have my coin!

 

It's really not too hard to understand as long as you really want to...if you actually OWNED the coin, your name would be beside the owner's field on the coin page.

Edited by Rockin Roddy
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This thread was just brought to my attention. Either I or my AJAYHAWKFAN geocoin was mentioned numerous times in this thread so I thought I would explain my thought on my geocoin.

 

However, before that I needed to clear somethings up written by Arthur & Trillian.

Groundspeak can say what they want, but in the real world, the Moun10Bike's and the AJAYHAWKFAN's of the world can parade up and down the streets pounding their chests saying they own every coin of theirs out there when in reality, they own only the coins they possess and a few web pages of registrations.

 

Other coins are done by people who are known and if they put such stipulations on their coins it is to feed their ego more than anything.

A & T, I have never paraded up and down the streets saying I own my coins. (I have never stated my coins are better then anyone else's either.) Many people have one of my coins and I consider them theirs.

 

Also. Some of us do put stipulations on our coins. We don't do it for ego we do it because that is how we want the coins treated. There is NOTHING wrong with that. We paid for the coins and we can request that. It has nothing to do with ego.

 

A & T, those statements show how ignorant you are because you don't know me and you don't know the facts behind my coin.

 

Regarding my AJAYHAWKFAN geocoin:

 

When I had my coins minted in late 2005 my plan was to place them in caches. I never intended on selling any of my coins (I did sell a set of coins for the American Cancer Society). I was also going to activate all of them because I wanted to see where they traveled.

 

I did plan on trading a few and at first traded with almost everyone. That had to be stopped because there were more request then I ever imagined. So I limited my trading to states where I have cached and coins of cachers I have met. Everyone who trades with me knows the coin will be activated and that they need to log it. After they log it, it is theirs to do what they want.

 

I received my coins in Feb. 2006. I started placing them in caches. I would guess I have placed close to 250 coins in caches in at least 20 different states. They are all activated. If someone finds the coin and wants to keep it, they are welcome to as long at they log it. I hope they take it to events. Again, I like seeing where they travel.

 

A few people have been kind enough to write and ask if they could keep the coin found in a cache. I request a trade. My trade it to place any 2 coins in the wild to replace the coin they took. I have had no one turn that trade down. (I am going to ask them to place the two in the wild with a missing to find me.)

 

If someone has possession of my coin through a legitimate way, they can do with it what they want. I only ask that if they trade, sell of give the coin away the new owner logs it.

 

I not going to fight to keep my coins being sold. In my opinion that takes to much energy and I have better things to do.

 

The saddest part to me about putting coins out is that so many are taken from the cache and never logged. I consider those coins stolen. I would estimate the number of stolen coins is in the 40% range. When I know for sure one was stolen I will put a note on the web page stating that.

 

I hope that explains my thought about my coin.

Edited by ajayhawkfan
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The saddest part to me about putting coins out is that so many are taken from the cache and never logged. I consider those coins stolen. I would estimate the number of stolen coins is in the 40% range.

 

So, so sad...after I found my first geocoin I knew I wanted to get some out there to travel. I started with a few TB's (which aren't moving well) but really wanted to do some geocoins. Now I'm too afraid to let go of them - I will do it eventually but I'm just building myself up for it...

 

Sorry for digressing...

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Listed more as stolen today.

 

That is a real shame - I'm so sorry to hear it. Were they all your personal coin or a mix of many? You've got a great looking personal coin and I can see why someone would want it but that doesn't give anyone the right to steal them. I really hope they were just misplaced or not logged properly by the cachers and that they turn up for you down the road...

Edited by Theotokos
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Wow! I am relatively new to all this and have just spent the better part of an hour reading the first 2 pages of these posts, skimming through the middle, and reading the last bunch. Sorry I can't read them all, but my eyeballs get weird on me when I read on the computer screen for too long! INMH, if you buy an unactivated coin, it is yours to activate or not. Right? If you buy or trade from someone and that someone has set out restrictions or stipulations, you should abide by them. If cachers would always uphold the agreements and stipulations that go with any trade or purchase, all would be well. If you don't agree, don't trade or buy. There is nothing wrong with a person creating a coin and putting on stipulations or wishes as to what they hope will be done with the coin. They should realize, though, that once the coin leaves their possession, it's open to all sorts of treatment that is difficult or impossible to control.

 

I must read too much because I almost understood that abstract!!! :o

 

It may be ignorance on my part because I have not been in geocaching very long, but I don't see anything wrong with e-bay. I get in trouble there, but some of my prettiest coins came from there and geocachers' stores. If I ever get where I can have my own coins made up, I doubt that I will put any restrictions on them. Less fun that way. I would love to do something like having my own coin, untrackable, just to place as surprises in caches for the finder to do with them as they please - likely to keep in a collection.

 

Anyway, it is super neat to read all the varying opinions! I realize I have soooooooooo much to learn! However, I am loving all of it and getting on the forums even for a little time each evening is always enlightening! Thanks to all of you for trying to keep this geocaching good fun for all. marilyn

 

p.s. One comment has me perplexed. I thought you should activate the coins that you will keep or cache. Then, do not activate the ones you plan to trade or sell. Someone somewhere above (sorry, I am too pooped to go back and find it) said that most people don't activate their collection coins. What is the proper method of handling here or does it matter?

 

If I have said anything really stupid or way off, please forgive me. "Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most." Not sure who to credit for that, but it is one of my favorite quotes.

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Not to add to the confusion of this mix, but here's another question:

 

Some geocoins were DONATED to an event that I attended recently. I "won" one of these coins, but as it turns out, I am not allowed to be the registered owner of the coin. I'm a little upset about this, because I had no idea that this was a stipulation when I won the coin. If I was given the coin as a raffle prize, I would have assumed that this meant it was mine--I was listed as the registered owner. The person that donated the coins told the person that he gave them to that they were "ready to be adopted out." I've contacted the owner and his statement to me is that the coin is mine and I can do whatever I want with it, but he won't let me adopt the geocoin until he knows me. (He doesn't even live in the same state, so how will he get to know me?)

 

I feel like I'm renting a car--nice to look at, great to feel, I can even lie to people and tell them it's mine, but in reality, it's not. If the owner wanted the coin back, I would give it back because he OWNS it, not me.

 

I only buy geocoins. I've never traded any and I've not sold them on e-bay either. I've already promised the owner that I would never sell it and heck, I'll write up a written agreement with a cash penalty clause! But I like to OWN the geocoins in my collection, and as far as I see it, I don't OWN this geocoin.

 

Am I wrong or confused? Can someone help me out here?

Edited by vegaschick74
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Not to add to the confusion of this mix, but here's another question:

 

Some geocoins were DONATED to an event that I attended recently. I "won" one of these coins, but as it turns out, I am not allowed to be the registered owner of the coin. I'm a little upset about this, because I had no idea that this was a stipulation when I won the coin. If I was given the coin as a raffle prize, I would have assumed that this meant it was mine--I was listed as the registered owner. The person that donated the coins told the person that he gave them to that they were "ready to be adopted out." I've contacted the owner and his statement to me is that the coin is mine and I can do whatever I want with it, but he won't let me adopt the geocoin until he knows me. (He doesn't even live in the same state, so how will he get to know me?)

 

I feel like I'm renting a car--nice to look at, great to feel, I can even lie to people and tell them it's mine, but in reality, it's not. If the owner wanted the coin back, I would give it back because he OWNS it, not me.

 

I only buy geocoins. I've never traded any and I've not sold them on e-bay either. I've already promised the owner that I would never sell it and heck, I'll write up a written agreement with a cash penalty clause! But I like to OWN the geocoins in my collection, and as far as I see it, I don't OWN this geocoin.

 

Am I wrong or confused? Can someone help me out here?

I have given my coins to different events to be won. It is know from the beginning that they are activated and are not up for adoption. No one who has every won one has ever complained.

 

However, if you were told you could adopt it, you should be able to do that.

 

It sounds like the the owner is being jerk. If you don't want to keep it, place it in a cache and watch it travel.

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...Am I wrong or confused? Can someone help me out here?

 

Keep in mind that a coin and the tracking of that coin are separate things. You can own a coin and someone else can own the tracking.

 

When I activate a coin, that is my claim to ownership. I have a volunteer coin in my collection. It was activated by the volunteer who gave it to me. I don't think of that coin as "mine". I love the coin, but I'm not free to sell it on ebay (not that I would). It doesn't belong to me.

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...Am I wrong or confused? Can someone help me out here?

 

Keep in mind that a coin and the tracking of that coin are separate things. You can own a coin and someone else can own the tracking.

 

When I activate a coin, that is my claim to ownership. I have a volunteer coin in my collection. It was activated by the volunteer who gave it to me. I don't think of that coin as "mine". I love the coin, but I'm not free to sell it on ebay (not that I would). It doesn't belong to me.

That's one way to think about it, and most people think like that. Tracking and the Coin being one and the same. For the most part it doesn't cause probelms because most people treat them as two sides of the same coin (cheap pun I know). However they are separete and people can and do keep their tracking for their own purposes even if you own the coin. It's worth knowing what's what before going into a deal.

 

The classic example is Moun10bike V1. He kept the tracking on all of his coins. He also let people keep them if they found them and the coin did not travel much (to have much of a history). He liked having a map of where his personal coin edition had ended up. If it helps think of it this way. You can own the coin, but the creator always owns the "edition" even if they don't have a single coin left to call their own. Some of the edition owerns like tracking their edition.

 

Also any coin with a number can be tracked on any number of sites. Not just one.

 

Over time Coin tracking and Coin ownership is going to be more of an issue. Coin owners will come up MIA or their email will die and they won't know to transfer it. eBay and a growing collectors market will make the issue an important one to solve in the cases where the owner is MIA and the buyer wants the tracking turned over.

Edited by Renegade Knight
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