confession of an ebay coin seller

[+bikinibottomfeeders]

I just figured I would pre-emptively post here on the forums about this issue.

 

You can weigh in your opinion if you want.

 

Background: In early 2006 I traded Jeep'en Jumpers one of my bikinibottomfeeders gold geocoins for his trackable gold coin. At the time his only concern was that I not trade it to a certain someone we all know has an affinity for the #7.

 

Situation: I currently have placed his coin up for auction on ebay. I have my reasons for selling the coin but would like it known that I am not only selling that coin but many others in my collection. Today I recieved an email through ebay accusing me of stealing his coin and threatened legal action and disgrace on this website...over a geocoin. While I know that many of you would never sell a coin that was traded to you, I believe that you cannot retain ownership of something you traded to somebody else.

 

In closing, while some of you may disagree with me I'd like to remind the whole coin collecting community that in the end we are talking about pieces of metal that have no intrinsic value. I believe that if people got as worked up over poverty and other political issues then we could probably come up with better solutions to most of the problems that our nation faces.

 

Sincerely,

Bikinibottomfeeders

[ATMouse]

Sigh.

 

I can see someone not agreeing over a decision like this, or even the owner asking to buy it back, I do not see the object of nasty emails or threats. Fer goshsakes.

 

There are things so much more important to be worked up about: hungry children, the powerless abused...

[+MustangJoni]

I know that I traded the same person. He told me that if I wanted to own the coin I had to trade him for a trackable coin with an icon. Otherwise, I could still have the coin, but he would retain ownership. Since my coin had an icon, I was able to own the coin. So is yours owned by him or do you have ownership of it?

 

I also promised Robert that I wouldn't sell it. I don't know about your agreement with him, but that is the agreement I made with the trade.

Edited November 8, 2007 by MustangJoni

[+Droo]

If you are acting within the parameters of the trade agreement what's the big deal? Without hearing the other side of the story I must say this is much ado about nothing.

Lawsuits? Defamation of character? Libel? Slander? The public taste for scandal and sensationalism knows no bounds.

[+Cav Scout]

Did you know your ebay listings could be removed if it was reported to them that you was using another websites photos ? You have two geocoins listed like that from the cointracking.com website.

 

Actually all of your pictures are from other websites.

 

By the way I'm not the one who was complaining.

 

I just figured I would pre-emptively post here on the forums about this issue.

 

You can weigh in your opinion if you want.

 

Background: In early 2006 I traded Jeep'en Jumpers one of my bikinibottomfeeders gold geocoins for his trackable gold coin. At the time his only concern was that I not trade it to a certain someone we all know has an affinity for the #7.

 

Situation: I currently have placed his coin up for auction on ebay. I have my reasons for selling the coin but would like it known that I am not only selling that coin but many others in my collection. Today I recieved an email through ebay accusing me of stealing his coin and threatened legal action and disgrace on this website...over a geocoin. While I know that many of you would never sell a coin that was traded to you, I believe that you cannot retain ownership of something you traded to somebody else.

 

In closing, while some of you may disagree with me I'd like to remind the whole coin collecting community that in the end we are talking about pieces of metal that have no intrinsic value. I believe that if people got as worked up over poverty and other political issues then we could probably come up with better solutions to most of the problems that our nation faces.

 

Sincerely,

Bikinibottomfeeders

Edited November 8, 2007 by Cav Scout

[TheNumber1Bop]

I agree with Droo and I don't even have to hear both sides of the story. It's a flippin' coin! To threaten defamation of character and lawsuits over something like this is just ignorant.

[+MustangJoni]

I do like to hear both sides. I consider that fair.

 

From having traded the same person for the coin, I know that I made an agreement when I got it. The fact of the matter is that I own mine, and can do what I want with it. I gave my word that I wouldn't sell it, and will stand by that. But if I didn't own the coin, I'd have no right to sell it.

[TheNumber1Bop]

Just my opinion, but these people that trade their coins but still want to retain ownership somehow of the coin they traded..need to just keep their coins. Then they won't have to worry about them!

[+MustangJoni]

Here is why I asked the question about ownership. After a little research it turns out that JNJ actually owns the coin. He does not want it sold.

 

So lets say you buy it for whatever amount. It looks like it is going for over $20 now. And you are all excited to grab the coin and have it in your inventory. Well guess what? The owner of the coin can have the tracking number disabled. All you have is the coin, and no tracking and no icon. Which is fine for some, but if I'm paying a premium price for a coin, then I want all the bells and whistles.

 

With the new CCC coins, the mystery sender has retained ownership, Moun10bike coins, he retains ownership, and so does this coin owner in some cases, and this is one of them.

 

I traded with him knowing I would get ownership. But have turned down trades for other coins with the condition that they keep ownership. I have accepted gift coins where they retain ownership, but I didn't give up one of my coins for them. To me, it is the agreement you make, and if you aren't willing to stand by the conditions set, it is best to walk away from the deal.

[+Jeep'en Jumpers]

I just figured I would pre-emptively post here on the forums about this issue.

 

At the time his only concern was that I not trade it to a certain someone we all know has an affinity for the #7.

 

 

 

David, you can say anything you want in the forums to make yourself look good. Only you and I know what is true. You can keep the chunk of metal, as the coin tracking will disappear! Who's not playing fair? Whoever #7 is I apologies for someone's made up BS. Have a nice day, David!

[+Rockin Roddy]

JNJ has stopped "trading" his coins for this very reason. He sent me one awhile back with the stipulation that I never sell it (his name is listed as owner, I merely have it in my collection).

 

One should always follow the original trade agreement. If you agreed never to sell, SHAME on you! I'm certain if you wanted to, he'd trade you back fro that coin and you could do as you wish with YOUR coin.

 

If, on the other hand, the agreement didn't stipulate the "no sales" clause, you are good to go and nothing can be done.

 

Which agreement did you make?

[+Team Sand Dollar]

Why sell a coin that the original owner never wanted sold? There are many coins out there that the original owners wanted to be trade only and I feel it is only right to honor their requests.

 

As for the following statement "..that in the end we are talking about pieces of metal that have no intrinsic value" I must differ with you. The coin has value to the person who originally designed it, it has value to those that have been lucky enough to own one, and plenty of value to those that are willing to buy it.

 

I understand the you may be in need of funds and must sell off your collection in order to make ends meet. But a better solution would be to trade these special coins for coin(s) of equal value that are more exceptable to sell on Ebay. This way you can reach your goal while not upsetting the original owner of the coin.

 

Team Sand Dollar

[+Rockin Roddy]

I agree with Droo and I don't even have to hear both sides of the story. It's a flippin' coin! To threaten defamation of character and lawsuits over something like this is just ignorant.

 

Speaking of character, if I asked that the only stipulation for a trade be that you never sell it and you DO sell it, your character is shot IMHO. Not saying this is the case here.

 

I'm thinking there are many here that would be "upset" at the idea of a coin being sold when the TA was that it not be, might make it tricky to get someone to make a trade later on.

 

Again MHO

[+MustangJoni]

I think the thing a lot of people are missing here is that JNJ owns the coin. This isn't an issue about what was agreed to, it is an issue of who has the right to sell it.

 

I own my JNJ coin, and he could do nothing if I decided to sell it (I won't). But BBF does not own the coin to be able to sell it. The coin is activated under JNJ's account.

 

Not jumping on BBF here, but that fact should really be known.

[+MustangJoni]

Ooops!

 

I hit that button twice!

Edited November 8, 2007 by MustangJoni

[ParentsofSAM]

I traded with JnJ for a coin also and he sent me an unactivated coin which I now have activated and I own, the agreement was that I do not sell the coin. I agreed to that. That was my agreement and I know other people also made an agreement with JnJ to not sell his coins.

 

Since BBF traded for an activated coin, it would seem that he should not sell what he does not own. Yes he sent his BBF coin in trade but he also made the agreement to trade for an activated coin that he would not own.

 

I think the bottom line is you should not sell coins that you do not own without explicit permission from the owner of the coin.

[+AtlantaGal]

But a better solution would be to trade these special coins for coin(s) of equal value that are more exceptable to sell on Ebay. This way you can reach your goal while not upsetting the original owner of the coin.

 

This is a philosophy I try to practice. I think it's the best way to deal with coins where the original owner doesn't want them sold. Of course remembering that fact when you have 2000+ coins isn't always the easiest thing to do

[+bikinibottomfeeders]

JNJ has stopped "trading" his coins for this very reason. He sent me one awhile back with the stipulation that I never sell it (his name is listed as owner, I merely have it in my collection).

 

One should always follow the original trade agreement. If you agreed never to sell, SHAME on you! I'm certain if you wanted to, he'd trade you back fro that coin and you could do as you wish with YOUR coin.

 

If, on the other hand, the agreement didn't stipulate the "no sales" clause, you are good to go and nothing can be done.

 

Which agreement did you make?

 

The agreement that I remember making with JNJ is that I would not trade the coin to AG. I don't remember them ever asking me not to sell the coin. If they can forward me a copy of an email where I agreed to not sell it then I will gladly pull my auction.

[+MustangJoni]

JNJ has stopped "trading" his coins for this very reason. He sent me one awhile back with the stipulation that I never sell it (his name is listed as owner, I merely have it in my collection).

 

One should always follow the original trade agreement. If you agreed never to sell, SHAME on you! I'm certain if you wanted to, he'd trade you back fro that coin and you could do as you wish with YOUR coin.

 

If, on the other hand, the agreement didn't stipulate the "no sales" clause, you are good to go and nothing can be done.

 

Which agreement did you make?

 

The agreement that I remember making with JNJ is that I would not trade the coin to AG. I don't remember them ever asking me not to sell the coin. If they can forward me a copy of an email where I agreed to not sell it then I will gladly pull my auction.

 

But you don't own the coin. So it really isn't yours to sell. You are selling a coin with no tracking, because JnJ has said that he was going to disable the tracking number.

[+bikinibottomfeeders]

I traded with JnJ for a coin also and he sent me an unactivated coin which I now have activated and I own, the agreement was that I do not sell the coin. I agreed to that. That was my agreement and I know other people also made an agreement with JnJ to not sell his coins.

 

Since BBF traded for an activated coin, it would seem that he should not sell what he does not own. Yes he sent his BBF coin in trade but he also made the agreement to trade for an activated coin that he would not own.

 

I think the bottom line is you should not sell coins that you do not own without explicit permission from the owner of the coin.

 

I have never made light of the fact that JNJ still retains tracking rights to the coin. I have been very forthcoming with that info on my auction page.

 

an honest question:

If what you say above is true then did I give him one of my coins in exchange for him loaning me one of his?

 

Correction: I traded for an activated coin that I did not have right to the tracking number on the coin.

[+Kabuthunk]

So.... wait, how is this different than a Moun10bike coin? He doesn't allows THOSE to be sold on E-bay, so I can't possibly see why the same idea can't be done by someone else.

[+bikinibottomfeeders]

JNJ has stopped "trading" his coins for this very reason. He sent me one awhile back with the stipulation that I never sell it (his name is listed as owner, I merely have it in my collection).

 

One should always follow the original trade agreement. If you agreed never to sell, SHAME on you! I'm certain if you wanted to, he'd trade you back fro that coin and you could do as you wish with YOUR coin.

 

If, on the other hand, the agreement didn't stipulate the "no sales" clause, you are good to go and nothing can be done.

 

Which agreement did you make?

 

The agreement that I remember making with JNJ is that I would not trade the coin to AG. I don't remember them ever asking me not to sell the coin. If they can forward me a copy of an email where I agreed to not sell it then I will gladly pull my auction.

 

But you don't own the coin. So it really isn't yours to sell. You are selling a coin with no tracking, because JnJ has said that he was going to disable the tracking number.

 

I do own the coin. I traded one of my coins for it.

 

And exactly what point is being made by those that disable a tracking number when someone purchases their coin? I mean really, you have someone that wants your coin in your collection bad enough to pay for it. They will most likely not get rid of it if they paid for it.

[+bikinibottomfeeders]

So.... wait, how is this different than a Moun10bike coin? He doesn't allows THOSE to be sold on E-bay, so I can't possibly see why the same idea can't be done by someone else.

 

I don't agree with that either. But that is my personal opinion.

 

If I traded coins(lets say non trackable U.S. dollar coins) for an original geocoin with a tracking number on it from Groundspeak and turned around and sold it on ebay. Should they be allowed to cancel the

tracking number or even retain the original rights to the tracking number?

[+tokencollector]

I probably shouldn't beat on the hornets nest, but . . .

 

I'd have to agree with the no intrisnic value, or at least nominal intrinsic value. Meaning something to the designer or owner are examples of extrinsic value. As an example, I have coins I wouldn't sell for $50 (actually, I woudln't sell them period), but if I had to file an insurance claim, their value would be far less. What they are worth to me is greater than their true value.

 

As for ownership, having the tracking registered in your name is not necessarily the same thing as ownership. If I purchase a coin with $ or by barter (trade), I own the coin as long as it was sold to me by the owner of the coin and there was no stipulation that ownership was retained by the other person.

 

That said, if an agreement not to sell was part of the exchange, then it should be honored. Unfortunately, in this case, the existance of an agreement is disputed.

 

TSD's suggestion seems reasonable - offer to trade it back for something of equal value. If that works out, then nobody needs to get their nickers in a twist.

 

I love geocoins as much or more than others here. Or, at least my addiction is as deep as many others here. Even still, I'm amazed by the posessiveness of some people after they barter their coins. I would / will respect their wishes, but I don't get it.

[+Rockin Roddy]

Because the OWNER asked that the coin never be sold? You don't own that coin at all, it's merely in your collection! Look at the owner of the coin, does it say YOUR name? NO...it says JNJs name.

 

As I said, you made an agreement (everyone who has made a trade so far has said JNJ asks the same...never sell), you should stick to your agreement. Saying you can't remember the agreement seems a bit "strange" to me (for lack of better wording that won't get me in trouble). It also makes you look bad.

[+LadyBee4T]

 

Situation: I currently have placed his coin up for auction on ebay. Today I recieved an email through ebay accusing me of stealing his coin and threatened legal action and disgrace on this website...over a geocoin.

 

 

More than likely ebay sent you an email stating that someone stated you were selling something that you didn't own. That is true--that coin is owned by JnJ as shown on the coin page. It doesn't matter whether it is a geocoin or a pair of jeans or any other such item. You don't own it so you shouldn't sell it without the true owners permission and blessing. Its fairly obvious that JnJ doesn't want it to be sold.

 

The disgrace brought on this website would be through you and your actions.....

 

I recently traded someone for a BBF gold coin. He wanted coins to put up on ebay and since that metal was your trade only coin he traded me so he could honor your wishes. I think that's what you should have done in this case.

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

I'm going to close this thread as it appears to be a beef between two people and should be taken offline.

 

There are other threads that talk about selling trade only coins, or eBay in general and the discussion should take place there if it can be done in a general manner.