Muggled Cache Suggestions

[TWARAKS]

We placed a cache in a field beside our home with permission of the land owner. We gave detailed instructions to where to park, ect. The cache was active for serveral months with no problems. Recently, we found that a fellow geocacher parked in a different location than specificed; by nearby houses and a curious neighbor stopped them on the way out after finding the cache. They explained to the neighbor why they were there and took the "muggles/neighbors" to our cache and showed them what it was. The neighbors chose to take the cache off of property that doesn't even belong to them because they did not feel that people should be passing in front of their property, to get to the cache. Even though, there is no need to pass infront of their property which was specified. We were able to obtain who the neighbors were threw the geocachers who lead them to the cache; but after apolizgizing personally and in letter format of any inconvience the one person who went the wrong way caused they refuse to give back the cache. We even offered to relocate it somewhere else since they are so bothered by it. It was explained to them that it is our daughters cache and she is devatated and we feel bad because there is two travel bugs in the cache. Any sugestions of how we can proceed, avoid this, and make up for peoples lost travel bugs? We disbled the cache; should we or can we do anything else? Why are people such jerks?

[+BlueDeuce]

Get a new cache container, hide it in a new spot so they can't find it easily and make it very clear on the cache page not to cross that property. (or say where to enter)

 

Oh, and mark the Tb's as missing.

Edited November 7, 2007 by BlueDeuce

[Uberquandary]

Geez, some people's day just isn't complete until they're making somebody else's miserable.

[+briansnat]

Replace the cache in a slightly different spot and make it a multi so people have to go the way you want them to.

 

And send the thieves a certified letter requesting the return of your property. Certified letters sometimes carry a bit more weight with people.

[+Renegade Knight]

... It was explained to them that it is our daughters cache and she is devatated and we feel bad because there is two travel bugs in the cache. Any sugestions of how we can proceed, avoid this, and make up for peoples lost travel bugs? We disbled the cache; should we or can we do anything else? Why are people such jerks?

 

While I swear the police don't like to spend time on such trivial things, the theft of personal propety is against the law. Either you drop it and give up on the cache or you see if you can work with the law to help your neighbor understand that theft, is theft.

 

If the police won't work with you on such a trivial matter, well...they won't work with the thief should they encounter some kind of trivial matter of their own.

 

Cachers will park where they will. That's beyond your control, and quite frankly while you may have had a preference...if they were legally parked they were good. It's the theif that's the problem.

 

Regardless of anything else, your cache location has been compromised and that cache is toast until the thief moves.

[+9Key]

I wonder why those cachers thought it would be a good idea to show your neighbor where the cache is. That was just asking for trouble. They should have just left and come back another time and parked where they were supposed to.

 

EDIT - according to the OP's profile they haven't found or hidden any caches.

Edited November 7, 2007 by 9Key

[+StarBrand]

If they were parked legally and did not trespass onto those people's property - I don't see an issue.

 

And..... I agree that tresspassing onto property they do not own to take something that is not thier property - that is indeed theft.

 

At any rate the location is comprimised. Too bad.

[+J-Way]

Cachers will park where they will. That's beyond your control, and quite frankly while you may have had a preference...if they were legally parked they were good. It's the theif that's the problem.

Even if the cacher was legally parked, apparently he/she tresspassed on private property, which is illegal (and not very smart).

 

A certified letter would definitely get the neighbor's attention, but they'll probably just throw the cache away upon receipt of said letter.

 

If you're in a small town or rural area and are on good terms with the local police, then they might be willing to talk to the neighbor. But you don't really have an excuse to call them. Get the landowner to call. The neighbor tresspassed on private property to steal the box, which was placed with the landowner's permission, so he/she has the only real claim.

 

Or get the landowner to talk to the neighbor.

 

Either way, the location is compromised and a cache will never be safe there because the neighbor will possibly take future containers out of spite. You might be able to place a new cache some distance away.

[+sataraid1]

Call the police and get your stolen property back. Today.

 

Suggest that the officers explain to these jerks that they have no control over property that doesn't belong to them. "Passing near my property" doesn't cut it. Point out that the ACTUAL property owners could well charge THEM with trespassing. I sure would, especially since they won't return your cache.

 

Then saturate the woods with caches. Measure the cache-to-cache distance with a ruler if you need to.

 

I am absolutely sick to my bones with paranoid, belligerent, self-serving [people] who think they've got some moral imperative to control every square inch of everything they can see.

 

It astonishes me that you found someone who'd let you place a cache, and the site was STILL ruined by some jerk who can't practice what he preaches.

 

[Edited by moderator to remove potty language.]

Edited November 8, 2007 by Keystone

[+briansnat]

Call the police and get your stolen property back. Today.

 

I'm not so sure the police would consider a box that you left out in a field to be stolen property if it's taken.

[FrogBlaster77]

I think you should get your cache back. It is your property, and the two travel bugs inside are someone else's property. I wouldn't want my travel bug to be lost with a cache.

[+sataraid1]

Call the police and get your stolen property back. Today.

 

I'm not so sure the police would consider a box that you left out in a field to be stolen property if it's taken.

 

Once it was illustrated that the cache was a purposefully placed object, taking it off of someone else's property was a malicious act of theft.

 

If that was someone's tree stand the police would be all over it.

 

There is no splitting of hairs, there are no "degrees". Willful theft is willful theft. Not to mention they had to trespass to take it. Hold them to their own paranoid standards and see how they fare.

[+crwildwood]

File a stolen property report with the local police for the cache location and indicate who has/who removed the cache plus any contact information you may have. If the police will follow up, great! They usually will - maybe not in a fast time period, but they will get around to knocking on the door. If not, mail a copy of the report or at least the police report number to the thieves and specifically request the return of the cache and all its contents including the travel bugs (I would likely do this anyway as notice that you have taken the first step of filing for a civil claim whether or not you intend to follow up). Good luck!

[+Sommers]

Can you imagine if this incident put somebody over the "3 strikes you're out" limit?LOL

[+TheManInStripes]

Replace the cache in a slightly different spot and make it a multi so people have to go the way you want them to.

 

And send the thieves a certified letter requesting the return of your property. Certified letters sometimes carry a bit more weight with people.

This is abandoned property. I doubt a letter of any kind will get them wanting to return anything.

[+TheManInStripes]

OK, first of all, I admit that I posted my first reply before reading the entire thread. It astounds me to no end that a MODERATOR of all people could so substantially change their position in just abou an hour and a half.

 

But I digress.

 

There is something that people in this activity of geocaching don't seem to understand. Items placed in the forest, or anywhere else for that matter, are no longer your property. As a matter of fact, most items placed IN a cache are left there with the HOPES that someone else will come along and take them. Of course, we want anyone that decides to come to play by our own rules, but that doesn't always happen. So sometimes, you just have to move on.

 

Calling in the police is just a waste of their time and our tax dollars. Sending them a certified letter is a waste of time and your resources as well.

 

I look forward to the day that I read the first news story of someone that is successful in getting the police to go and get their cache back for them. Better yet, a civil judgement against someone that remove a cache, and the judge ordered the cache to be returned. I want to be the first person you all notify whenever this happens.

[+scuba dude]

Replace the cache in a slightly different spot and make it a multi so people have to go the way you want them to.

 

And send the thieves a certified letter requesting the return of your property. Certified letters sometimes carry a bit more weight with people.

This is abandoned property. I doubt a letter of any kind will get them wanting to return anything.

 

Not in the eyes of the law. Abandoned property means the owner has revoked all claims of ownership. A geocache is not abandoned. Neither are shipwrecks, or lost jewelry if the owner has any desire to reclaim them.

[+TheManInStripes]

Replace the cache in a slightly different spot and make it a multi so people have to go the way you want them to.

 

And send the thieves a certified letter requesting the return of your property. Certified letters sometimes carry a bit more weight with people.

This is abandoned property. I doubt a letter of any kind will get them wanting to return anything.

 

Not in the eyes of the law. Abandoned property means the owner has revoked all claims of ownership. A geocache is not abandoned. Neither are shipwrecks, or lost jewelry if the owner has any desire to reclaim them.

And like I said in my first post. PLEASE, email me as soon as someone SUCCESSFULLY gets "the law" involved in one of these reclamations. I now carry a Motorola Q and will receive such message INSTANTLY. I am LONGING for that to happen!!!

[+sataraid1]

There is something that people in this activity of geocaching don't seem to understand. Items placed in the forest, or anywhere else for that matter, are no longer your property. As a matter of fact, most items placed IN a cache are left there with the HOPES that someone else will come along and take them.

 

You might be able to make that argument for a cache left on public land, but NOT private land. Otherwise, every tree stand, hammock, picnic table, and camper left for a summer would be up for grabs. And clearly that's NOT the case.

[+TheManInStripes]

There is something that people in this activity of geocaching don't seem to understand. Items placed in the forest, or anywhere else for that matter, are no longer your property. As a matter of fact, most items placed IN a cache are left there with the HOPES that someone else will come along and take them.

 

You might be able to make that argument for a cache left on public land, but NOT private land. Otherwise, every tree stand, hammock, picnic table, and camper left for a summer would be up for grabs. And clearly that's NOT the case.

It may not be, however, when you post coords on a public website, inviting anyone and everyone to that location to find the cache, and someone decides to take not only contents of the cache, but the cache itself, again, I say, this is going to be practically impossible to prosecute or sue someone for in court. Different people participate in this activity in different ways. Sorry, there really are no hard and fast rules. And if someone decides to go on to the private property, containing a cache placed with permission, and remove it, they have as much permission to be on that private property as any other geocacher, so getting them prosecuted for trespassing would be rather difficult don't you think?

[+DanOCan]

I'd say placing a cache there again is a waste of time. Not everyone is going to read the cache page before heading out the door so another confrontation between cachers and neighbor is inevitable. Not worth it -- archive the cache and then approach the neighbor and try to negotiate for the release of the TBs saying you have removed the cache listing so they shouldn't be "bothered" again. Hey, if the neighbor hasn't thrown the whole thing in the trash yet it's worth a shot.

 

Unless your local law enforcement officers are WAY more bored than ours, a situation like this isn't even likely to hit their radar.

 

Just like the stash note says: "Sometimes, a good spot turns out to be a bad spot."

[+TheManInStripes]

Unless your local law enforcement officers are WAY more bored than ours, a situation like this isn't even likely to hit their radar.

Finally, someone who gets it!!! I mean really, what would you rather have your local police officers doing -- worrying about a missing geocache, or chasing down murderers, rapists, and child molesters?

[+crwildwood]

The important part some of you are missing is that it was placed on private land with permission from the landowner and the cache was taken by a known person who has, until now, refused to return it. The trespassing charge would likely not fly except for the argument that the person was not involved in the sport of "geocaching" and therefore was trespassing with intent to do harm because they did not have the implied permission from the landowner to be on the land. It would depend on your judge if it would fly, but if I had to file papers I would include it with the other charges knowing it would likely be thrown out - and you would need the landowner has a co-plaintiff. However, knowing that a specific individual or individuals has the object makes it very easy to proceed with a stolen goods charge. Particularly since the ownership is documented on a website - I'm assuming for a period of time.

 

Another way to approach this might be through the media. Know a report that likes a challenge? They could write an article on geocaching and interview the thief on their take.......

[+crwildwood]

Finally, someone who gets it!!! I mean really, what would you rather have your local police officers doing -- worrying about a missing geocache, or chasing down murderers, rapists, and child molesters?

 

Actually, I would be upset if it did take away from an officer chasing down murderers, rapists and child molesters, but most police departments have "community" officers and this is exactly their job! They don't chase down the afore mentioned undesirables. They solve neighborhood and personal issues.

[+TheManInStripes]

Another way to approach this might be through the media. Know a reporter that likes a challenge? They could write an article on geocaching and interview the thief on their take.......

I like this idea. And I would recommend they run it as a humor column.

 

In all seriousness, I have a good idea. I would challenge people to go and talk to your local law enforcement officers, explain to them what geocaching is, and then this situation as presented. Then, ask them how a case like this would be handled if it was reported to their local department. I will start a new thread sometime late tonight or early tomorrow morning where people can share what they found out. I will also contact some local officers I know and get their take on the situation.

[+StarBrand]

Replace the cache in a slightly different spot and make it a multi so people have to go the way you want them to.

 

And send the thieves a certified letter requesting the return of your property. Certified letters sometimes carry a bit more weight with people.

This is abandoned property. I doubt a letter of any kind will get them wanting to return anything.

Are duck blinds left on wildlife areas abandonded property up for the taking? If I park my car on public land and don't come back for a few days - have I abandoned it and you can feel free to take it?

 

For a lot of good reasons - I DO NOT want geocaches classified as abondoned property. There are any number of public agencies that will ban geocaching if we generally classify them as abandoned property.

[+TheManInStripes]

Finally, someone who gets it!!! I mean really, what would you rather have your local police officers doing -- worrying about a missing geocache, or chasing down murderers, rapists, and child molesters?

 

Actually, I would be upset if it did take away from an officer chasing down murderers, rapists and child molesters, but most police departments have "community" officers and this is exactly their job! They don't chase down the afore mentioned undesirablescriminals. They solve neighborhood and personal issues.

Slight edit there. Hope you don't mind.

[4wheelin_fool]

We disbled the cache; should we or can we do anything else? Why are people such jerks?

 

Archive it and wait awhile before attempting to hide a new one in the area.

 

The cacher did 2 things wrong, and the homeowner is clueless, what else can you do?

Edited November 8, 2007 by 4wheelin_fool

[+briansnat]

Calling in the police is just a waste of their time and our tax dollars. Sending them a certified letter is a waste of time and your resources as well.

 

Who was suggesting sending the police a certified letter?

[+sataraid1]

Unless your local law enforcement officers are WAY more bored than ours, a situation like this isn't even likely to hit their radar.

 

Okay, so where do they draw the line? When is something taken without permission too insignificant to trifle with?

 

Just because a LEO or the general public has no concept of what a geocache is, it's all right for people to swipe them? Once you start rationalizing and marginalizing what is a theft and what isn't you start down a pretty slippery slope.

 

The value of a geocache with some decent swag and a couple of travel bugs might be ... what ... $15? Do you think the police would blow it off if a geocacher walked into this person's front yard and took a $15 yard ornament? Especially if they know who took it, and have already asked for it back and been denied?

 

No one expects a county-wide manhunt for a tupperware box. But an officer knocking on a door and saying "You have something that doesn't belong to you. Return it." takes 5 minutes and sends a pretty clear message that swiping other people's stuff and refusing to return it when asked isn't acceptable behavior.

 

The police blowing it off sends the message that it is.

 

Which would you prefer to become a precedent?

[+beezerb]

We placed a cache in a field beside our home with permission of the land owner.

 

Can you get the land owner to ask that the cache be returned?

 

2005 was a good year for SPs.

[+TheManInStripes]

Unless your local law enforcement officers are WAY more bored than ours, a situation like this isn't even likely to hit their radar.

 

Okay, so where do they draw the line? When is something taken without permission too insignificant to trifle with?

 

Just because a LEO or the general public has no concept of what a geocache is, it's all right for people to swipe them? Once you start rationalizing and marginalizing what is a theft and what isn't you start down a pretty slippery slope.

 

The value of a geocache with some decent swag and a couple of travel bugs might be ... what ... $15? Do you think the police would blow it off if a geocacher walked into this person's front yard and took a $15 yard ornament? Especially if they know who took it, and have already asked for it back and been denied?

 

No one expects a county-wide manhunt for a tupperware box. But an officer knocking on a door and saying "You have something that doesn't belong to you. Return it." takes 5 minutes and sends a pretty clear message that swiping other people's stuff and refusing to return it when asked isn't acceptable behavior.

 

The police blowing it off sends the message that it is.

 

Which would you prefer to become a precedent?

I would prefer that these officers get out and track down the murderers, rapists, and child molestors. Worrying about a $15 tupperware box of goodies, or a $15 yard ornament seems petty to me.

[+StarBrand]

......

I would prefer that these officers get out and track down the murderers, rapists, and child molestors. Worrying about a $15 tupperware box of goodies, or a $15 yard ornament seems petty to me.

I would perfer they had resources enough to do both.........crime is crime no matter the scale.

[+sataraid1]

 

I would prefer that these officers get out and track down the murderers, rapists, and child molestors. Worrying about a $15 tupperware box of goodies, or a $15 yard ornament seems petty to me.

 

Excellent. Please tell me where you live, and if you have any of the following in your yard:

 

Bird feeders.

Shepherd's hooks.

Those cool solar-powered LED walkway lamps.

Dog food bowl sets.

 

Because I could certainly use any of those items.

 

[+scuba dude]

I would prefer that these officers get out and track down the murderers, rapists, and child molestors. Worrying about a $15 tupperware box of goodies, or a $15 yard ornament seems petty to me.

 

Isn't there some sort of "ignore user" button so I don't have to wade through this troll's crap?

[+TheManInStripes]

......

I would prefer that these officers get out and track down the murderers, rapists, and child molestors. Worrying about a $15 tupperware box of goodies, or a $15 yard ornament seems petty to me.

I would perfer they had resources enough to do both.........crime is crime no matter the scale.

And how much additional taxes are you and all your neighbors willing to pay to make this happen?

[+Seamus McRowdy]

What you need to do is hire a group of ninja assassins to go and retrieve your cache. If the cache is no longer there, then let ninjas do what ninjas tend to do.

 

Just a suggestion

 

[+kingsting]

I you want to place another cache in the same location, make it a multi next time with the first stage near the suggested parking coordinates. Many cachers load the coords into their GPSrs and head out without reading the cache pages.

[4wheelin_fool]

make it a multi next time with the first stage near the suggested parking coordinates.

 

Replace the cache in a slightly different spot and make it a multi so people have to go the way you want them to.

 

This is probably the best idea, but I would wait a few months for the homeowner to lose interest.

[+Team GeoBlast]

I would prefer that these officers get out and track down the murderers, rapists, and child molestors. Worrying about a $15 tupperware box of goodies, or a $15 yard ornament seems petty to me.

 

Isn't there some sort of "ignore user" button so I don't have to wade through this troll's crap?

 

Nope. You just learn to perform the function manually.

[+TheManInStripes]

 

I would prefer that these officers get out and track down the murderers, rapists, and child molestors. Worrying about a $15 tupperware box of goodies, or a $15 yard ornament seems petty to me.

 

Excellent. Please tell me where you live, and if you have any of the following in your yard:

 

Bird feeders.

Shepherd's hooks.

Those cool solar-powered LED walkway lamps.

Dog food bowl sets.

 

Because I could certainly use any of those items.

 

 

No.

 

No.

No.

No.

And No.

[+cave-rat]

What I have seen happened is similar to you. What they did that solved the problem was chain the cache to a tree and put a lock on with the key somewhere else... like a puzzle. Granted... that only works if the jerk0 owner did not seen where the key went or if they had the gut to saw the chain off.