Name and Shame Coin nappers

November 2, 2007

Why should coin nappers receive the protection of anonymity by Groundspeak rules. If members are not prepared to play the game fairly why can't others be warned not to place game pieces within their area. I have a coin racing to Australia which has not moved since April, I won the cointest by the way and received a fabulous Compass Rose Gold 2006 Geocoin. But -- the race is still on and I promised the coin I am racing to the owner of the cache it is headed to, so not only is my game being spoilt but so is my 'competitors' - sadly I don't think his coin has made it out of Australia yet

Log entries are accessible, member profiles can be viewed et cetera, so anyone with an interest could actually see who is 'holding' my coin - so why are there rules about not naming names.

Name and shame I say - what say you.

24.7k · November 2, 2007

Why should coin nappers receive the protection of anonymity by Groundspeak rules....

They should't. However some folks have no clue that by burrying things under the carpet they are in effect giving their endorsment.

2.2k · November 2, 2007

Because it opens the door for false accusations.

For example, somebody came in here recently and started discussing an issue with a coin maker. That thread quickly had a lot of speculation and finger pointing, assumptions being made, etc. when it turned out that in fact there was no issue.

Mind you, this all happened in a matter of about 4 hours - overnight when the coin maker had no chance to respond or correct statements that were being made. In the end, it turned out to be a misunderstanding and all ended well, but I'm sure that at least a few folks were left with an (un-needed) bad taste in their mouth with that vendor.

Now, how are we (as moderators or other players) to know if the cause being brought up (generally speaking) is one of an actual coin thief or just somebody with an axe to grind with another player? Most coin thieves don't log their pick ups so you can't point to their profile to see details. It comes down to one person's word against another - who are we to believe?

I feel for you, I do. Nobody likes to lose a TB or coin. I've lost many myself.

In the end, it's against Groundspeak's Privacy Policy to "out" people like this, and that's what we have to live by.

2.2k · November 2, 2007

Normally, I agree with you.

In this instance, I have to ask if you have emailed this cacher to ask about your coin.

I know this cacher, and even had a chance to meet him when he came to our area in February. He is not the type to "steal" a coin. I would say that it most likely mis-placed if anything. Make sure you send him an email about it.

2.2k · November 2, 2007

I just dropped him a line and told him to check in here...

2.2k · November 2, 2007

Have you emailed the person holding the coin to ask them why it hasn't moved?

Direct contact is always better than speculation and public floggings.

November 2, 2007

Yes I sent email after six months, which I figured was not exactly harrassing after so long a time. I did get a reply with apologies and excuses and a promise to move the coin on the next day and I would get an email with an update in addition to the log entry - nothing happened. I did email again after that but have had no reply.

I can understand the policy regarding privacy when there could be some ambiguity regarding events - but not when the facts are a matter of record on geocaching.com

November 2, 2007

wrong post, sorry

Edited November 2, 2007 by Highland Geofairy

November 2, 2007

Yes I sent email after six months, which I figured was not exactly harrassing after so long a time. I did get a reply with apologies and excuses and a promise to move the coin on the next day and I would get an email with an update in addition to the log entry - nothing happened. I did email again after that but have had no reply.

I can understand the policy regarding privacy when there could be some ambiguity regarding events - but not when the facts are a matter of record on geocaching.com

I turned one of our non-trackable geocoins into a traveller by attaching a travel bug tag to it. Someone picked it up and logged that they took it. After not moving it for a few months, I e-mailed them and asked them to please move it along. They replied that they didn't have it. So I replied and asked that they properly log what they did with it. I got no reply. They did then log it into a cache near their home, but it hasn't been seen there since.

Did they mean to "discover" it and not log that they took it, who knows. They did not explain that in their e-mail. They had to have seen it, otherwise they would not know the tracking number. Did they actually place it into another cache and then it was stolen? Who knows?

Crap happens. And then there are idiots who like shiny objects. I am one of them, but I would not keep someone else's activated coin with a mission. We have had caches stolen in our area, including two of mine, and we know who did it. But there is nothing we can do. Geocaching is a game of giving stuff away and keeping your fingers crossed.

dadgum to those who take advantage of our generosity.

(Wow, my original post was editted by TPTB to read "dadgum? How bizarre!)

Edited November 2, 2007 by slowdownracer

2.2k · November 2, 2007

So what you have is a cacher who isn't able to move the coin along quickly - this happens. I've picked up travelers with the best of intentions only to sit on them for 3 months because my caching dropped off due to life getting in the way.

If he was going to steal or "nap" your coin, he wouldn't have logged in on the site.

The way I see this, it's a case of unfortunate circumstances and nothing more. By bringing this to light it casts a potentially negative light on this cacher who likely had good intentions.

Where is the value in that?

Let me suggest this, as I've done it before as well.

Contact him again and offer to send him a pre-paid envelope to send the coin back to you so that you can move it again. This will get your coin moving again with minimal effort needed on the other parties side.

2.2k · November 2, 2007

Geocaching is a game of giving stuff away and keeping your fingers crossed.

That's a great quote. You should make it your signature line.

(Wow, my original post was editted by TPTB to read "dadgum? How bizarre!)

Brought to you by your friendly neighborhood forum software.

November 2, 2007

So what you have is a cacher who isn't able to move the coin along quickly - this happens. I've picked up travelers with the best of intentions only to sit on them for 3 months because my caching dropped off due to life getting in the way.

That's baloney - this cacher has been active, both logging finds and moving other TBs. I waited six months - I think that is more than a reasonable timeframe - especially when you take into account the geocachers creed - which this cacher has quoted in forums and spoken about morals!!!! the geocaching.com guidelines on trackable items, not to mention plain good manners on keeping owners informed.

November 2, 2007

Normally, I agree with you.

In this instance, I have to ask if you have emailed this cacher to ask about your coin.

I know this cacher, and even had a chance to meet him when he came to our area in February. He is not the type to "steal" a coin. I would say that it most likely mis-placed if anything. Make sure you send him an email about it.

I only got a reply to my email (sent to his profile contact address via geocaching.com) after a 'gentle reminder' from geocaching.com was sent - I was told my email had gone into a spam folder - so what address pray did geocaching.com use ?

And yes - I saw cacher concerned enter the forums this evening. It would be nice if they could offer an explanation.

8.6k · November 2, 2007

I feel the pain.

In this area we have recently had a spate of at least 10 coins "disappearing" from caches. Once I realised that my own coin's diappearance was not just an individual case of "bad luck", I started a careful examination of the logs. An unpleasant picture emerged... One particular name emerged again and again.

Yes, the evidence is circumstancial, but 10+ pieces of circumstancial evidence leaves a nasty taste in the mouth. The investigation is on-going.

Unfortunately it means that I will not be releasing some lovely coins for others in my locality to enjoy and move onwards.

One bad apple can spoil the game for so many. :lol:

MrsB

2.2k · November 2, 2007

Normally, I agree with you.

In this instance, I have to ask if you have emailed this cacher to ask about your coin.

I know this cacher, and even had a chance to meet him when he came to our area in February. He is not the type to "steal" a coin. I would say that it most likely mis-placed if anything. Make sure you send him an email about it.

I only got a reply to my email (sent to his profile contact address via geocaching.com) after a 'gentle reminder' from geocaching.com was sent - I was told my email had gone into a spam folder - so what address pray did geocaching.com use ?

And yes - I saw cacher concerned enter the forums this evening. It would be nice if they could offer an explanation.

I sent him the link, and I know he checked on this thread.

I hear a slightly different version...but I'll let him speak for himself when he chooses.

2.2k · November 2, 2007

I feel the pain.

In this area we have recently had a spate of at least 10 coins "disappearing" from caches. Once I realised that my own coin's diappearance was not just an individual case of "bad luck", I started a careful examination of the logs. An unpleasant picture emerged... One particular name emerged again and again.

Yes, the evidence is circumstancial, but 10+ pieces of circumstancial evidence leaves a nasty taste in the mouth. The investigation is on-going.

Unfortunately it means that I will not be releasing some lovely coins for others in my locality to enjoy and move onwards.

One bad apple can spoil the game for so many.

MrsB

MrsB, I too have lost coins to a local their in our area. This particular issue is not about a stolen coin, since this coin was logged and shows that it is in a cachers possession. Still frustrating, but different than the thievery we have seen in our area.

22k · November 2, 2007

Pulling out the pitchforks and torches isn't the best way of getting your coin back. In fact, harassing another cacher, regardless of the situation isn't allowed by gc.com guidelines.

You need to make friends with this cacher, then you can stick the knife in.

Works for me.

November 2, 2007

I would be interested to hear any version !! Seems he "chooses" not to respond at all now.

I've had one email - saying coin would be moved on the next day - I've heard nothing since and no replies to emails I've sent since asking why my coin wasn't moved on as promised. I wonder what 'other' version there is?

November 2, 2007

Pulling out the pitchforks and torches isn't the best way of getting your coin back. In fact, harassing another cacher, regardless of the situation isn't allowed by gc.com guidelines.

You need to make friends with this cacher, then you can stick the knife in.

Works for me.

I don't want the coin back - it was promised to someone else. I didn't want to get into a slanging match either. I would like an explanation. But the main purpose of the original post is as I stated - if there are accessible records on geocaching.com for all to see, why should cachers receive the protection of anonymity on forums. Keeping someones coin for 6 months without keeping the owner updated isn't allowed by gc.com guidlines either. Plus one email after six months is hardly harassing - I have emailed since and kept it polite all but the last time when I ended it 'what is your problem' - but I dont think that to be rude, at least it wasn't intended to be.

22k · November 3, 2007

Pulling out the pitchforks and torches isn't the best way of getting your coin back. In fact, harassing another cacher, regardless of the situation isn't allowed by gc.com guidelines.

You need to make friends with this cacher, then you can stick the knife in.

Works for me.

I don't want the coin back - it was promised to someone else. I didn't want to get into a slanging match either. I would like an explanation. But the main purpose of the original post is as I stated - if there are accessible records on geocaching.com for all to see, why should cachers receive the protection of anonymity on forums. Keeping someones coin for 6 months without keeping the owner updated isn't allowed by gc.com guidlines either. Plus one email after six months is hardly harassing - I have emailed since and kept it polite all but the last time when I ended it 'what is your problem' - but I dont think that to be rude, at least it wasn't intended to be.

Okay, to give a serious answer. Threads to name cachers who keep coins or bugs is not going to happen. Not only is it inappropriate per gc.com, there are too many unknown factors involved in why travelers go missing.

Yes, many are stolen, lost, mistreated and ignored. However an unlogged traveler does not give anyone permission to assume that the holder needs anything more than a reminder.

Here you have the right to ask that your coin be logged correctly and the right to contact a holder to ask them to follow that guideline.

Beyond that, listing cachers to shame them is not part of getting tbs and coins back into caches.

November 3, 2007

FWIW, if anyone wants to get a coin or TB out of a bad area, I'd be happy to get it in circulation for you. I live in Alabama but I travel all over the country. I get home once a month or so and could drop them a cache near there or in another state.

1.4k · November 3, 2007

I feel your pain, believe me...we have 70 trackables out and on good day 7 or 8 of them are moving.

I used to get extremely upset about it, but them "out grew" that phase and now I'm just happy to see any of them move at all.

If you let it get to you, you'll just end up with a giant stomach ache :lol:

BTW, we just had a bug show up after 2 years in someones hands...so there is always hope

November 3, 2007

Contact him again and offer to send him a pre-paid envelope to send the coin back to you so that you can move it again. This will get your coin moving again with minimal effort needed on the other parties side.

And what should we do if that doesn't work?

I have someone that has had one of my coins since April, but I dont get a response when I email them, so if I were to offer to send a pre-paid envelope, I'd just get ignored on that too...

I'd just be happy to get a response, even if it was just saying "Oh, sorry, I lost it." or whatever happened... ANY response!

November 3, 2007

Contact him again and offer to send him a pre-paid envelope to send the coin back to you so that you can move it again. This will get your coin moving again with minimal effort needed on the other parties side.

And what should we do if that doesn't work?

I have someone that has had one of my coins since April, but I dont get a response when I email them, so if I were to offer to send a pre-paid envelope, I'd just get ignored on that too...

I'd just be happy to get a response, even if it was just saying "Oh, sorry, I lost it." or whatever happened... ANY response!

Having looked to see the mission you set for this coin I really feel for you. I hope you feel able to release another with the same mission and that it only ever meets conscientious cachers along the way who will enable it to complete its mission.

I agree with you about response - anything other than silence would be appreciated.

November 3, 2007

So what you have is a cacher who isn't able to move the coin along quickly - this happens. I've picked up travelers with the best of intentions only to sit on them for 3 months because my caching dropped off due to life getting in the way.

If he was going to steal or "nap" your coin, he wouldn't have logged in on the site.

The way I see this, it's a case of unfortunate circumstances and nothing more. By bringing this to light it casts a potentially negative light on this cacher who likely had good intentions.

Where is the value in that?

Let me suggest this, as I've done it before as well.

Contact him again and offer to send him a pre-paid envelope to send the coin back to you so that you can move it again. This will get your coin moving again with minimal effort needed on the other parties side.

I had considered offering to send a duplicate coin, unactivated, but could see from his profile he already has one. Even if I got a response to your suggestion of offering to send a pre-paid envelope - surely the most minimal effort would be a quick email - even if it only said go away.

This is not a case of my coin being stolen - its a case of the game not being played the way it should, and when trying to ascertain why getting no response. Other cachers have contacted me via gc.com so I don't believe there is a problem with my emails.

8.9k · November 3, 2007

I understand the question (and hope you're getting the answer you are looking for), but the real problem is between you and the one holding your coin. Coming in here and throwing about accusations will probably not help your coin get moving, could actually have an opposite effect.

I'd write this person again (always being friendly and polite) and ask if they had a chance to get the coin out yet? Maybe they did and haven't logged the drop yet, maybe they haven't but the nudge might help. As others have suggested, you can offer to have it mailed back to you so you can re-start the mission, you could continue to ask (although not too much that it's harassing, that might not be good either) for the coin to be moved OR you could even start another on it's travels.

Bugs can and do get lost stolen or forgotten, don't let it ruin your fun, play again!!

November 3, 2007

Okay, to give a serious answer. Threads to name cachers who keep coins or bugs is not going to happen. Not only is it inappropriate per gc.com, there are too many unknown factors involved in why travelers go missing.

Yes, many are stolen, lost, mistreated and ignored. However an unlogged traveler does not give anyone permission to assume that the holder needs anything more than a reminder.

Here you have the right to ask that your coin be logged correctly and the right to contact a holder to ask them to follow that guideline.

Beyond that, listing cachers to shame them is not part of getting tbs and coins back into caches.

Thanks BlueDeuce, a very considered response which I now happen to agree with.

Name and Shame Coin nappers

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