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Novabelle
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Today I noted a new cache! When I opened in up to learn more about it, I was turned away because I'm not a premium member :) . I realize there is need to fund geocaching.com, but I think allowing caches only available to premium members is a bad idea. This sort of thing can lead to a trend that which may scare off new cachers who aren't willing to put pay to join something they're not sure they want to be part of. I know it would have kept me out :) .

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95% of this site and it's functions are free - there's no need to take away something small like this to appease a small group of people who may be offended by them )not to sound harsh).

 

I don't know the stats, but I would venture a guess that less than 1% of all caches are MOC - thereby leaving 99% or so open to everybody. Access to 99% of all caches for free sounds pretty appealing to me.

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Maybe there aren't many of these premium caches now, but I'm considering the future. I can imagine that if even half we're premium, we would have 2 geocaching.com websites. Maybe that's what some want. I don't know.

 

They've been around for quite a while and there's rarely a proliferation of them. I see caches posted daily. I don't think there's much risk of MOCs ever becoming the majority...or even half.

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...I know it would have kept me out :) .

Actually it didn't because here you are. PMOCs have been around since long before you signed up. If they were truly a problem like you think they may become they would have been a problem long before now.

 

They have their uses, and it's not worked out to be the one you are worried about.

Edited by Renegade Knight
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Often time new caches are made PMO just till the FTF crowd hits it, then it is opened up. At least that is the way it is around here. Or when a especially nice prize is being given for FTF. If I had a chance at a $50 gift cert I would pay $3 for one month of PM to have a chance at it. Don't think of it as elitist, it's an added security measure some people like to have.

 

Another time I saw PMO caches pop up around here is when a teacher workshop decided to add geocaching to there agenda. Many micros were stuffed with these teachers cards instead of signing the logs which led to leaky caches, and they also didn't tend to rehide them correctly. The local cachers changed their caches to PMO to prevent them from obtaining the coords. However, we got a few permanent new cachers from that event so it wasn't all bad.

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Today I noted a new cache! When I opened in up to learn more about it, I was turned away because I'm not a premium member :) . I realize there is need to fund geocaching.com, but I think allowing caches only available to premium members is a bad idea. This sort of thing can lead to a trend that which may scare off new cachers who aren't willing to put pay to join something they're not sure they want to be part of. I know it would have kept me out :) .

 

I agree.

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In my area about 97% of caches are NOT MOCs (Members only caches). A few of those were MOCs for a short time and then opened up to all. I have 3 that used to Be MOCs - sort of as encouragement to fork over $2.50 per month (annual payment of $30).

 

I travel a lot and have never been to any area with more than 4 to 6 % as MOCs. They have been around for over 3 years and so has this concern. It just never blossoms into anything. The activity just keeps growing more new caches hiding ots of new caches.

 

Remember, you are not required to visit each and every cache. I just don't see how it hurts anybody.

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Today I noted a new cache! When I opened in up to learn more about it, I was turned away because I'm not a premium member :) . I realize there is need to fund geocaching.com, but I think allowing caches only available to premium members is a bad idea. This sort of thing can lead to a trend that which may scare off new cachers who aren't willing to put pay to join something they're not sure they want to be part of. I know it would have kept me out :) .
When you run out of non-member caches to find then come back and see us. :)
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Today I noted a new cache! When I opened in up to learn more about it, I was turned away because I'm not a premium member :) . I realize there is need to fund geocaching.com, but I think allowing caches only available to premium members is a bad idea. This sort of thing can lead to a trend that which may scare off new cachers who aren't willing to put pay to join something they're not sure they want to be part of. I know it would have kept me out :) .

Why would any of us, much less Groundspeak administrators, worry if new or prospective cachers who exhibited a bad case of selfishness and sense of entitlement were to choose -- if said newcomers took offense to the existence of Premium caches -- to leave the sport? Would not that simply be thinning the herd of the more annoying and whiny members? Would that process of elimination not be a good thing?

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Yep, no problem here.

MOCs in our area are usually a temporary thing and then go non-MOC later on typically.

You can always pay for ONE month for $3 and PQ to your heart's content for all the MOCs you care to look for. With such a small number of them in any given area, it would be easy to download all of them within that month for the 3 bucks. That's just one gallon of gas. In my Jeep, one gallon only gets me about 18 miles so $3 is a bargain compared to going hunting for caches. Come to think of it, so is $30 for a whole year's worth.

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Fasten your seat belts. It's going to be a bumpy ride!

 

:)

 

You know, every website I visit that has something of value that they produced, charges for you to reach that content. Think about everything that Groudspeak offers you for free that they could absolutely be charging a hefty monthly fee for (thanks Jeremy :) !).

 

I think they've been very generous. And if you choose to upgrade... what does it cost... $120 a year, $19.95 a month... no, $30 annually!

 

DCC

Edited by Driver Carries Cache
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Today I noted a new cache! When I opened in up to learn more about it, I was turned away because I'm not a premium member :) . I realize there is need to fund geocaching.com, but I think allowing caches only available to premium members is a bad idea. This sort of thing can lead to a trend that which may scare off new cachers who aren't willing to put pay to join something they're not sure they want to be part of. I know it would have kept me out :) .

Why would any of us, much less Groundspeak administrators, worry if new or prospective cachers who exhibited a bad case of selfishness and sense of entitlement were to choose -- if said newcomers took offense to the existence of Premium caches -- to leave the sport? Would not that simply be thinning the herd of the more annoying and whiny members? Would that process of elimination not be a good thing?

I thought that was the main reason for having MOCs.... :)
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Welcome to geocaching, and to the forums. Be sure to read my signature line below to understand the difference. There are over 3000 caches within 100 miles of the location of your first find. I'll make the assumption it is somewhat close to home, since that is where most of us start.

I don't have time to scan through all 167 pages of listings, but in the first 10 pages (200 listings) I saw zero PMO caches. That is a 10 mile radius of caches open to all. I had to run all the way to page 14 before I even saw the first PMO listing.

 

Your worries are unfounded. There are many good reasons to publish a cache as a PMO, and it still results in a very very small percentage of total caches. I won't hazard a guess on an actual number because....well, you have already read my sig line by now. :)

 

Have fun, don't sweat the petty stuff and don't pet the sweaty stuff.

Edited by wimseyguy
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I think it's more like 99.5% are not MMOC caches.

 

But to prevent future making of all caches MOC's if TPTB took away the Audit List ability, or made that ability available for ALL caches then there would be fewer MOC's.

 

As mentioned above, most MOC caches are just that during the initial rollout of the cache for the FTF'ers to be serious cachers. Then after a week or so the cache will become regular.

 

Other MOC caches are that way because of high muggability. We need a new word here, what's a muggle who's actually a cacher? Ever since around mid 2005 one has to be logged in in order to see the coords for a cache. So not publishing the coords for all means that some regular cachers might muggle caches intentionally?

 

A third reason for MOC caches is a way to violate the rules and possibly hide a cache without permission, if a landowner knew there was a cache on his land he might muggle it, I guess this is the same as the second reason.

 

The last reason is the only reason my one and only MOC cache is still a MOC cache. I like the Audit List. And since I let my premium membership lapse, I'm not going to remove the MOC status of my cache only to not be able to set it again.

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I think it's more like 99.5% are not MMOC caches.

 

But to prevent future making of all caches MOC's if TPTB took away the Audit List ability, or made that ability available for ALL caches then there would be fewer MOC's.

 

As mentioned above, most MOC caches are just that during the initial rollout of the cache for the FTF'ers to be serious cachers. Then after a week or so the cache will become regular.

 

Other MOC caches are that way because of high muggability. We need a new word here, what's a muggle who's actually a cacher? Ever since around mid 2005 one has to be logged in in order to see the coords for a cache. So not publishing the coords for all means that some regular cachers might muggle caches intentionally?

 

A third reason for MOC caches is a way to violate the rules and possibly hide a cache without permission, if a landowner knew there was a cache on his land he might muggle it, I guess this is the same as the second reason.

 

The last reason is the only reason my one and only MOC cache is still a MOC cache. I like the Audit List. And since I let my premium membership lapse, I'm not going to remove the MOC status of my cache only to not be able to set it again.

Another reason is to provide a safer home for valuable coins and TBs. A lot of ignorant newbies trade for coins and TBs taking them out of circulation. Premium members are more likely to understand the rules of the game.
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When I first looked into Geocaching I looked at the pros and cons about becoming a PM. After reading about the ability of doing the pocket queries I gladly forked over the $30.00. Not to mention I don't have to look at the ads in the middle of the pages. The MOC wasn't even a factor in my decision. Still isn't. If I come across one great. If not, that's still ok. Around here the majority are not MOC's. All I hear from people is that they can't afford the $30.00. :) That's really pocket change when you think about it. There are pleanty non MOC's to grab. Just look. :)

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Maybe there aren't many of these premium caches now, but I'm considering the future. I can imagine that if even half we're premium, we would have 2 geocaching.com websites. Maybe that's what some want. I don't know.

 

I myself fretted about this three years ago when I began. Indeed, I stayed up three nights, sleeplessly tossing and turning with angst about this happening. :)

 

Part of the future is now current reality. In those three years, I may have encountered perhaps 5 new MOCs placed in my (three) local areas, compared to the hundreds (if not thousands, since there are far too many to bother counting) of non-MOCs placed. :)

 

My anxiety was for naught. :)

 

(by the way, after the three sleepless nights, I parted with the $30 for premium membership, which was a superb antidote to my fretting)

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Another reason is to provide a safer home for valuable coins and TBs. A lot of ignorant newbies trade for coins and TBs taking them out of circulation. Premium members are more likely to understand the rules of the game.

 

Ah, I would have mentioned that if it occurred to me during the minute or so I was composing my verbal diaherea.

I only put bugs and especially coins in hard Multi caches but mostly in Puzzle caches. Seems like newbies never do those.

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Today I noted a new cache! When I opened in up to learn more about it, I was turned away because I'm not a premium member :) . I realize there is need to fund geocaching.com, but I think allowing caches only available to premium members is a bad idea. This sort of thing can lead to a trend that which may scare off new cachers who aren't willing to put pay to join something they're not sure they want to be part of. I know it would have kept me out :) .

 

If GC gets away with this, why next thing you know somebody will start charging for gasoline and hiking boots, mosquito repellent and bandaids, GPS receivers and batteries--all the stuff you need to go caching. That'd really stink. :D

 

Bear in mind that the decision to make a particular cache PMOC lies solely in the hands of the cache owner. If you want to appeal it, contact the cache owner and make your case. Given that they've paid the paltry $30/year, you may not get much traction...

 

This sort of thing can lead to a trend that which may scare off new cachers who aren't willing to put pay to join something ...

 

One can only hope :)

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Today I noted a new cache! When I opened in up to learn more about it, I was turned away because I'm not a premium member :) . I realize there is need to fund geocaching.com, but I think allowing caches only available to premium members is a bad idea. This sort of thing can lead to a trend that which may scare off new cachers who aren't willing to put pay to join something they're not sure they want to be part of. I know it would have kept me out :lol: .

 

If GC gets away with this, why next thing you know somebody will start charging for gasoline and hiking boots, mosquito repellent and bandaids, GPS receivers and batteries--all the stuff you need to go caching. That'd really stink. :lol:

 

Bear in mind that the decision to make a particular cache PMOC lies solely in the hands of the cache owner. If you want to appeal it, contact the cache owner and make your case. Given that they've paid the paltry $30/year, you may not get much traction...

 

This sort of thing can lead to a trend that which may scare off new cachers who aren't willing to put pay to join something ...

 

One can only hope :D

That would be bad enuf, but what if... what if... someone were to start charging for Internet access, for vehicles, or for food, or worse, for electricity! Wow! That would be sooo mean! :):):D

 

 

 

 

 

:D

 

 

:D

 

:D

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Today I noted a new cache! When I opened in up to learn more about it, I was turned away because I'm not a premium member :D . I realize there is need to fund geocaching.com, but I think allowing caches only available to premium members is a bad idea. This sort of thing can lead to a trend that which may scare off new cachers who aren't willing to put pay to join something they're not sure they want to be part of. I know it would have kept me out :) .

 

If GC gets away with this, why next thing you know somebody will start charging for gasoline and hiking boots, mosquito repellent and bandaids, GPS receivers and batteries--all the stuff you need to go caching. That'd really stink. :)

 

Bear in mind that the decision to make a particular cache PMOC lies solely in the hands of the cache owner. If you want to appeal it, contact the cache owner and make your case. Given that they've paid the paltry $30/year, you may not get much traction...

 

This sort of thing can lead to a trend that which may scare off new cachers who aren't willing to put pay to join something ...

 

One can only hope :huh:

That would be bad enuf, but what if... what if... someone were to start charging for Internet access, for vehicles, or for food, or worse, for electricity! Wow! That would be sooo mean! :D:lol::lol:

 

 

 

 

 

:D

 

 

:D

 

:D

 

:)
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I have not made 1 find...yet...Still waiting for my GPSr to arrive from an ebay buy. But I had no problem coughing up the $3 per month, not for the PMO's but just to help support a great place.

 

My 1st post, so a big HELLO to everyone...

I feel that yours was/is a great post. And, your post shows your mental, emotional and spiritual maturity! You sound like a grateful and happy person!

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I was origianlly going to comment on this beaten old complaint, but others got to it first.

I will say, if you ever try a PM, you won't stop as long as you maintain your interest in GeoCaching.

The benifits are just great.

I do make all of mine PMOC's.

And I will continue to do so. I am convinced it improves the saftey of the cache, and it gives something back to this hobby.

I can't wait till I get 5k finds. Maybe someone will sponsor me for a PLMOC. It is still 5k, right?

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Today I noted a new cache! When I opened in up to learn more about it, I was turned away because I'm not a premium member :) . I realize there is need to fund geocaching.com, but I think allowing caches only available to premium members is a bad idea. This sort of thing can lead to a trend that which may scare off new cachers who aren't willing to put pay to join something they're not sure they want to be part of. I know it would have kept me out :) .

 

You can be a premium member for an entire month for about the price of a single gallon of gas. The minimum cost is $3.

 

Premium member only caches have been around for 4 years now and still only account for less than 2% of all caches.

 

Cache pages on the internet can be viewed by anyone and will often come up in an internet search. If it's a Premium Member cache or a Platinum Member cache, this won't happen.

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Today I noted a new cache! When I opened in up to learn more about it, I was turned away because I'm not a premium member :mad: . I realize there is need to fund geocaching.com, but I think allowing caches only available to premium members is a bad idea. This sort of thing can lead to a trend that which may scare off new cachers who aren't willing to put pay to join something they're not sure they want to be part of. I know it would have kept me out :D .

 

Maybe there aren't many of these premium caches now, but I'm considering the future. I can imagine that if even half we're premium, we would have 2 geocaching.com websites. Maybe that's what some want. I don't know.

 

I did a search of caches nearest to your last find Eve's Cache, and the first MO cache I found was on page sixteen, last on the list. There was one on page nineteen, and none on page 20. That means there are 398 out of 400 caches within 15 miles of your last find that aren't MO.

 

I continued this to page 50, and there was a grand total of Nine Members Only Caches out of 1000 total. This is .009 % Members Only caches in a 35 mile radius. Your concerns are unwarranted.

 

 

Should more caches be made members only?

 

Economics 101

 

Premium Membership Exclusivities

 

Member only caches and why I hate them

 

Caches for premium members only

 

Why have the premium membership?

 

Members only caches

 

Subscription Only Caches--grrrrrrrrrr!

 

Member Only Caches, Should I or shouldn't I?

 

Caches for Premium members only

 

Members only caches

 

"members only" caches rant

 

The First "no Members" Cache

 

Change Moc Suggestion, need only normal account to view

 

Northeast Premium Member Only Caches, What are your thoughts?

 

When To Hide A Premium Member Cache, What is the culture of Member Only cache

 

Members Only Cache Hides, Members Only Cache Hides

 

Members Only, Premium Member Cache

 

And from across the pond

Members Only Caches, Is there a point anymore ?

Edited by Kit Fox
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I have not made 1 find...yet...Still waiting for my GPSr to arrive from an ebay buy. But I had no problem coughing up the $3 per month, not for the PMO's but just to help support a great place.

 

My 1st post, so a big HELLO to everyone...

 

There ya have it - not one cache found yet, but already has found a great caching attitude.

 

Welcome! Please matain the great attitude!

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$3 a month for the five or six PMO caches in the area? Not much of an incentive.

 

$3 a month for bookmarks and pocket queries? I couldn't get to PayPal fast enough.

 

There are a LOT more reasons to pony up the measly $3 than PMO caches. It's money well spent, and only the tiniest fraction of the actual cost of geocaching.

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Today I noted a new cache! When I opened in up to learn more about it, I was turned away because I'm not a premium member :D . I realize there is need to fund geocaching.com, but I think allowing caches only available to premium members is a bad idea. This sort of thing can lead to a trend that which may scare off new cachers who aren't willing to put pay to join something they're not sure they want to be part of. I know it would have kept me out :mad: .

I remember the first "members only" cache I ever saw. For some reason I felt personally insulted. Did the cache owner do this just to spoil my fun? Was he trying to blackmail me into becoming a premium member? I learned later that this was not the case. That cache owner was having problems with some of his caches being muggled. Making them "members only", somewhat limits access to the cache page and provides an audit log of everyone that views the page. It's not perfect but it helps if you're having problems.

 

I have one "members only" cache. I did it for the reason above. It was either that or archive it. Now that I've seen the audit logs, I really like them. They're fun. It's tempting to make all my caches "members only" but I won't do that because I want folks to find them.

 

I hope this gives you some perspective, I do understand how you feel, even if I no longer agree. There are some good reasons why someone might make their cache "members only" and, as everyone's been pointing out, there are plenty of other caches out there that you can find for free.

Edited by MtnGoat50
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Thanks for the welcomes!!!

 

Big Thanks for your complements Vinny & Sue Team!!! :D

 

Jeep_Dog...MO is...Life is much better to always have and keep one's good attitude! To much wasted energy to not have one.

 

I've been working on that "be a good human" thing for almost 3 and a half decades now.

Glad my hard work is noticed sometimes!!!

 

"Membership has it's Privileges".

 

I know I will enjoy the Geocaching community, great hobby, great people and a great reason to be outside!!!

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Today I noted a new cache! When I opened in up to learn more about it, I was turned away because I'm not a premium member :D .

 

There's an easy way around this kind of grief: Become a premium member and setup your Pocket Queries to exclude any caches that are for members only and you will never see those critters again. ;)

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Today I noted a new cache! When I opened in up to learn more about it, I was turned away because I'm not a premium member :D . I realize there is need to fund geocaching.com, but I think allowing caches only available to premium members is a bad idea. This sort of thing can lead to a trend that which may scare off new cachers who aren't willing to put pay to join something they're not sure they want to be part of. I know it would have kept me out ;) .

 

You might not like it, and I understand that, BUT once you place a few caches, especially ammo cans, only to have them stolen and/or vandalized w/ coins and bugs taken (and you also have a good friend who has had his last 5 caches stolen), then you would list MOC as well.

 

ALL of my caches with ammo cans from now on will be MOC. For me its just a fact of life.

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Since everyone who has responded to date is a premium member... and to help you see both sides ... I agree with the other posters here that member only caches have their place. I felt like you earlier in my caching experience..[ Read Mtn Goat50's post again] There is no need to worry about them. You are not missing out on any exotic once in a lifetime caches. In this area at least, they are just like any other cache.. no better.. no worse. Often they area in high muggle areas (that's part of why they are listed under members only) which, to me, makes those particular ones somewhat less desirable than other caches. If getting all the caches in a particular geogaphical area is important to you, you can become a premium member for a month, concentrate on members only caches for that time, then drop the membership for a year or so until the numbers in your area build up again. .. Or make friends with the members only cache hiders in your area. Most will give you the coordinates to their caches and there are ways to log them without a membership. Whatever you do, just keep caching.. some people ignore puzzles, some ignore multis, some ignore virtuals. It's like a huge buffet.. you can't eat it all so pick what you like best.

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Today I noted a new cache! When I opened in up to learn more about it, I was turned away because I'm not a premium member :D . I realize there is need to fund geocaching.com, but I think allowing caches only available to premium members is a bad idea. This sort of thing can lead to a trend that which may scare off new cachers who aren't willing to put pay to join something they're not sure they want to be part of. I know it would have kept me out ;) .

This "sort" of thing has been around for as long as the Premium Memberships. There hasn't been the trend you foresee. In fact, it is quite the opposite. The trend is the membership is growing by leaps and bounds. It obviously didn't scare you off and you just joined. This lends credence to the fact your arguement is one of straw.

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Wow!

I walked away from this days ago and it's still going... In a way, I feel like I should have kept my mouth shut. Let's just say some of the responses I read were good and have allayed my fears of premium member caches taking over the world. On the other hand, some of the responses implying I was a whiner newbie type was uncalled for and to that I will never speak up here again (my 1st and last). I'm just not comfortable with the elitist attitudes (the sort of demeanor you see in online game playing). I will, however, keep geocaching if that's OK? It's a has been a great hobby for Nova and I to spend time together and we thank the powers that be for making it possible. Alas, I don't believe we'll join any Geocache group thingies. I wouldn't fit in very well. I'm sure that will make some happy and some sad, but life's too short.

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Today I noted a new cache! When I opened in up to learn more about it, I was turned away because I'm not a premium member ;) . I realize there is need to fund geocaching.com, but I think allowing caches only available to premium members is a bad idea. This sort of thing can lead to a trend that which may scare off new cachers who aren't willing to put pay to join something they're not sure they want to be part of. I know it would have kept me out ;) .

I remember the first "members only" cache I ever saw. For some reason I felt personally insulted. Did the cache owner do this just to spoil my fun? Was he trying to blackmail me into becoming a premium member? I learned later that this was not the case. That cache owner was having problems with some of his caches being muggled. Making them "members only", somewhat limits access to the cache page and provides an audit log of everyone that views the page. It's not perfect but it helps if you're having problems.

 

I have one "members only" cache. I did it for the reason above. It was either that or archive it. Now that I've seen the audit logs, I really like them. They're fun. It's tempting to make all my caches "members only" but I won't do that because I want folks to find them.

 

I hope this gives you some perspective, I do understand how you feel, even if I no longer agree. There are some good reasons why someone might make their cache "members only" and, as everyone's been pointing out, there are plenty of other caches out there that you can find for free.

 

Thanks, you have a gift of insight.

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The last reason is the only reason my one and only MOC cache is still a MOC cache. I like the Audit List.

I agree with this. I have one cache that is members only. The main reason I made it that way, especially in the beginning, was to try to avoid a bunch of cachers visiting the site. If I were to see a bunch of people come and go at a favorite boating or fishing spot, I'd probably wander over (as a muggle) and see what's there. Hopefully, this lessens the chance of that.

 

I do have a cache that is archived and members only. While the cache was active, it was not members only. I changed it to members only just before archiving it. I'm still amazed at how recent the dates are of people that have opened up that archived cache page. Funny to see.

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