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Another change in the game I'm trying to understand...


drat19

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As a Geocaching "old timer", my disdain for The New Numbers Game and Micro Spew is well documented in these precincts; no need for me to re-hash all of that here again, after I peacefully took a break from the Forums for a year or so. During that time I've come to accept that this is the "new" game now, and I've cut back on my participation accordingly and work as hard as I can to locate caches that *I* would find enjoyable during the few times that I do choose to cache now. Apparently since "there's something for everyone", this is what I'm supposed to do now. So be it.

 

Here's my new observation about another change in the game that's happened recently:

 

I still enjoy attending Event Caches from time to time as an opportunity to meet and socialize with other cachers, and I've made (and continue to make) some nice new friends this way. However, I've also observed that these get-togethers invariably now have a significant portion of time/energy devoted to the sale of GeoCoins, and to the exchange of lists of GeoCoin tracking numbers so that folks can pump up their Trackable stat and icon lists. The original intent of TBs to travel from cache to cache and for cachers to enjoy the fascination of watching the geographic movement of inanimate objects has been supplanted by the Discovery of trackables for the sole purpose of pumping up those stats and icon lists, and the resultant Profit Motive of entrepreneurs who are able to cash in on that pumping, either by arranging the production of those coins, or by eBay or other forms of resale. Oh, and of course Groundspeak's profit motive as to tracking/listing, the blocks of tracking codes, etc. I'm not begrudging anyone for finding a way to cash in on this; more power to 'em, wish I'd thought of it.

 

I also continue to observe that to many people, and despite the cries of those on these forums who say otherwise, The Stats Do Matter. When I reveal to those I meet at Events that I've been caching for over 5 years, invariably that makes me one of the 'senior" attendees at any Event, and the question is inevitable: "So how many Finds ya got?" My response is always the same: "I found about 1500 caches in my first 2 years of caching between '02 and '04, and then when Micros became the hide style of the majority back around mid'04, I decided it was less fun for me and I curtailed my activities, and I've only found about 300 or so in the 3 years since."

 

Unlike my past tirades around here, no agenda with this post, just to share my observations and throw them out onto the table for discussion. I've given up "fighting the good fight"...as I've indicated I now cache very sparingly and try to get whatever enjoyment I can out of it when I do.

 

The discussion floor is open for anyone who cares to partake...

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I also continue to observe that to many people, and despite the cries of those on these forums who say otherwise, The Stats Do Matter. When I reveal to those I meet at Events that I've been caching for over 5 years, invariably that makes me one of the 'senior" attendees at any Event, and the question is inevitable: "So how many Finds ya got?" My response is always the same: "I found about 1500 caches in my first 2 years of caching between '02 and '04, and then when Micros became the hide style of the majority back around mid'04, I decided it was less fun for me and I curtailed my activities, and I've only found about 300 or so in the 3 years since."

I get that stuff too - they think because I've cached for 5+ years I'd have 10k finds. People get 800+ hides in 6 months than they think they're veterans but to me they're still newbies because of the silly mistakes they make - blindly following the arrow and doing unnecessary bushwacking, not being prepared for the weather / terrain / etc, marking poor coordinates for their caches, breaking others caches, etc. Of course this could just be due to lack of common sense as much as anything.

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I've noticed noob's who think 500 in their first year is a wonderful thing. In 2002 it would have been a thing of wonder. In 2007, it's ho hum. Yet, I also find that I don't keep up with what cachers today do. I don't care about 500 in 6 months so much as having fun. Fun doesn't mean finding every cache.

 

Events turning to coin fests? Maybe so. Stats important? Always will be.

 

My next event will be a ridge line hike from one peak to the end of the ridge. We will create a 'Power Trail' off the beaten path. If folks want to bring their coins and swap them out on the ridge, I recon they can do that. We will all get a heck of a veiw and a good hike.

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I don't really get it either. I've only gone to a few events and most of those usually had a table with a geocoin book open so people could write down the numbers and log them. I just don't see the fun in that.

 

The only coin I've ever "discovered" I did so because it was a joint find with my girlfriend. She officially moved it, I logged it as discovered because I was with her on both ends and it happened to be a particularly cool coin. but we did find it in the wild and move it along, as it's meant to do.

 

I've never been one for amassing finds either as my stats show. I cache when the mood stsrikes or if I'm someplace new. Going out and finding caches all day for whole weekends and what not just isn't fun to me.

 

That's the way I prefer it. Not looking at it on a table alongside 50 other people. But each to their own. That's part of the beauty of this game. Everybody can play the way they want to.

Edited by wandererrob
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I'm of the opinion that micros don't bother me so much... but I cannot live on a diet of micros alone! So while I've found a decent amount of micros, my most memorable finds are invariably the larger and more remote variety.

 

Event caches, for me, have been one of the best aspects of the game. Meeting and greeting with local folks and yes, there's some "trackable numbers trading" etc. and I LOVE comparing stats with folk (not because it determines who's "better" or anything like that, I just find it interesting) but it's never taken over the main reason of the event, which for me has always been to hang out, swap stories and put some faces with the names.

 

Maybe I'm in a unique location. Here in Northern California, I could limit my searches to just micros, just caches involving a hike, just caches in scenic places or just caches that are regular or larger and still have a great many fun outings, with even more caches popping up every day. I started the 1st of January 2007 and I'm on track to maybe find 500 in my first year. Not that it's "critical" or anything, that's just the rate I'm finding. If you look at the stats in my profile, some months I find 60, some moths I find 6, it's just not an issue.

 

The key to me is that I get fun and enjoyment out of any caching excursion. They're all different. One day we drove more than a hundred miles each way to place a TB near to its final destination. For our effort, we got to spend a few hours that afternoon on foot in a gorgeous redwood forest, finding a total of three caches. Some days, it's how many can we find in an afternoon. And while that trip involved a lot of drive-ups I enjoyed it as well. Or the trip we took into a local regional park where the terrain was incredibly steep and we spent about 7 hours finding about 12 caches (we missed three) and trudging up impossibly steep fire roads. I had the pleasure of falling off a mountain bike and we got back to the car half-dead... but man, what a day!

 

It's all about perspective. Some wise words someone once told me... "If you're not having fun, it's your own fault", so make what you can out of your caching excursions and revel in the pleasure there is to be had.

 

DCC

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However, I've also observed that these get-togethers invariably now have a significant portion of time/energy devoted to the sale of GeoCoins, and to the exchange of lists of GeoCoin tracking numbers so that folks can pump up their Trackable stat and icon lists.

 

I wonder if there isn't a curve of change and your area is running a tad behind mine ;-)

Your statement might have been true here in Central Fl last year, but not now. That is, the trackable stats and icons are now so numerous and common that they no longer interest many. I was at an event this weekend where there were some TBs and coins on the table; I saw one person fondle them and take down a few numbers for discovery. Nobody else bothered. I don't bother to log my coins into events, because there's no interest by anybody in discovering them.

 

Coin sales are being used to pay for some of the bigger fancier events lately. The GeoWoodstocks, obviously, starting with GW3 here in JAX. Ice Cream Man just minted and sold a coin to fund his Finders Fest, and TAR minted one for the Alabama Invitational. A nice way to have $$$ for ammo cans and booty, food and drink. If someone is hosting a major party, I'm all for them finding a way to pay for it.

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Looks like an old timers thread so far B)B)

I think I'd have to pretty much agree with 9Key.

RK if someone wanted to they could probably do 500 in a couple of weekends here in So Cal.

I think I found somewhere around 180 in my first year and I was going all over so cal a couple weekends a month

 

Oh, it won't stay old-timer for long, it will go downhill eventually. B) Yes, I (with about 1,300 finds), have been "passed" by all sorts of newer cachers who amass 1K in a year, or even less. I'd agree with Ikonzo Karst (who I didn't quote), this might be regional for you Drat. I can't speak for the entire Northeast, but the "sit around and copy coin numbers from notebook binders" craze seems to have long since died down, by my observation.

Edited by TheWhiteUrkel
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I enjoyed reading your post. I am a new cacher and love it. The numbers game will never be important to me, and other peoples numbers do not impress me much after learning how they can be inflated. I do not understand this trend to "discover" coins that you don't actually find in a cache. There is a website, cacheusa.com that I recently found and they have threads that list random coin numbers for others to discover. That seems strange that you would find joy in that. I really enjoyed finding the 1 coin that I found and was impressed by how nice it was. I guess it is up to each person to find their own personal level of enjoyment in this game. For me it is the exercise, the hunt, checking out peoples creativity, and spending time with my husband in the outdoors.

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However, I've also observed that these get-togethers invariably now have a significant portion of time/energy devoted to the sale of GeoCoins, and to the exchange of lists of GeoCoin tracking numbers so that folks can pump up their Trackable stat and icon lists.

 

I wonder if there isn't a curve of change and your area is running a tad behind mine ;-)

Your statement might have been true here in Central Fl last year, but not now. That is, the trackable stats and icons are now so numerous and common that they no longer interest many. I was at an event this weekend where there were some TBs and coins on the table; I saw one person fondle them and take down a few numbers for discovery. Nobody else bothered. I don't bother to log my coins into events, because there's no interest by anybody in discovering them.

 

Coin sales are being used to pay for some of the bigger fancier events lately. The GeoWoodstocks, obviously, starting with GW3 here in JAX. Ice Cream Man just minted and sold a coin to fund his Finders Fest, and TAR minted one for the Alabama Invitational. A nice way to have $$$ for ammo cans and booty, food and drink. If someone is hosting a major party, I'm all for them finding a way to pay for it.

 

I was going to type out a similar post, but both of your points said exactly what I was going to.

 

Hey Drat, you need to come back to Mississippi some time for an event B) . At one we held just last week, there was hardly a coin in sight. There were a few jeeps and TBs, and a handful of coins floating around, but most of the attention placed on the trackables was to show several new folks how they worked. Most of the time was spent socializing and joking with old friends, while making the newbies feel welcome- exactly the way an event should be.

 

Even at coin-oriented events, I've noticed that most people only spent a few minutes pawing through the collections that had been laid out before moving on to other things. There were a few designs most people hadn't seen before, and the novelty lasted for a few brief moments. What really held peoples' attention were the personal coins recently put out by their caching friends. Other than that, the number of coins out there is just overwhelming. But if you know the person, their coin is a little more meaningful.

 

I've pretty much limited my coin dealings to either personal coins put out by friends, or event coins. Like IK said, they're a good way to support the event organizer, and make a nice memento to take home after the event ends.

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...My response is always the same: "I found about 1500 caches in my first 2 years of caching between '02 and '04, and then when Micros became the hide style of the majority back around mid'04, I decided it was less fun for me and I curtailed my activities, and I've only found about 300 or so in the 3 years since."

Actually, this type of response makes it sound like you care about the stats too and feel the need to explain yours. B)B)

 

I've recently found myself sharing more of your opinions. B) Not to the same extent or outcome, but I have been terribly dissapointed in some of the cache hides in our area over the last year or so. Mostly micros but all size caches can be hidden in poor places. My reaction is not the same as yours, I just take them in doses and mix in weekends of hiking and caching to balance out the other types of hides. In the end, that works for me. Adjusting to changing conditions is pretty much a fact of life. I don't see geocaching being any different in that respect.

 

I also see the shift in events and it bothers me some, but not too much. Every event has the coins area and I like to take some time to look because some of the designs and craftsmanship are really nice. I even spent a few days logging tracking numbers once. B) For me, the solution is simply to spend most of my time talking to people like the "old" events. Just because there is a lot of attention to the coins and icons, the event still is a group of people who mostly enjoy socializing and swapping stories. So for me, events are still fun and I simply spend most of my time focusing on the parts I like. It isn't hard to step away from the coins to enjoy the event like I always have, at least not for me. But don't get me started on those silly flash events... :(

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I've noticed noob's who think 500 in their first year is a wonderful thing. In 2002 it would have been a thing of wonder. In 2007, it's ho hum. Yet, I also find that I don't keep up with what cachers today do. I don't care about 500 in 6 months so much as having fun. Fun doesn't mean finding every cache.

 

Events turning to coin fests? Maybe so. Stats important? Always will be.

 

My next event will be a ridge line hike from one peak to the end of the ridge. We will create a 'Power Trail' off the beaten path. If folks want to bring their coins and swap them out on the ridge, I recon they can do that. We will all get a heck of a veiw and a good hike.

Wish I lived near you, this sounds like a great event!

 

Looks like an old timers thread so far B)B)

I think I'd have to pretty much agree with 9Key.

RK if someone wanted to they could probably do 500 in a couple of weekends here in So Cal.

I think I found somewhere around 180 in my first year and I was going all over so cal a couple weekends a month

Well, I definitely don't qualify as an old-timer. Been caching since the beginning of the year and just made it over 200 finds this month.

However, I agree with the sentiments displayed in this thread. My girlfriend and I cache together, and we aren't interested in finding most micros (however, we have found some wonderful ones) or caching for numbers. We recently (for college) moved into an urban environment and thus lost our backyard full of ammo cans out in the woods. Thus our finds have dropped off, as well. We cache because we enjoy it, and don't pay much attention to how many finds we've got, or at all to what anyone else has. We enjoy the new friends we have made, the places we are led to, the information we learn and the adventures we have.

 

As far as coin/TB fests at events? We co-hosted an event this weekend and I was the only one who dropped off a TB before-hand. There were about a dozen that were tossed out on the table, at the end of the event and traded. I didn't see a single person making notes...

While I don't care for the trading of numbers, I simply don't take part in it. Likewise, while there are lots of caches nearby, I don't go searching very often. There are some evenings when we need some stress relief (dunno how we figure that caching is relief! B) ) and we head out to find some caches.

 

If it makes you feel better, there are newbs who appreciate "traditional" caching and want to keep the practice alive!

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...My response is always the same: "I found about 1500 caches in my first 2 years of caching between '02 and '04, and then when Micros became the hide style of the majority back around mid'04, I decided it was less fun for me and I curtailed my activities, and I've only found about 300 or so in the 3 years since."

Actually, this type of response makes it sound like you care about the stats too and feel the need to explain yours. B)B)
I'm well documented in these Forums that I have ALWAYS cared about my stats and the fact that the changes in the game since roughly mid'04 totally watered down any signficance of them (i.e, not that anyone is a "better" or "worse" cacher than anyone else, or that anyone is a "winner" or not, but just the ability to compare "relative experience levels", and also the ability to engage in "friendly competition" among caching buddies). But unlike my tirades last year, I'm over that now. Really. (No, REALLY!) ;-) ;-)

 

In response to some other comments on this thread (which I'm too lazy to go back and quote directly right now), yeah, it could be that my Event attendance is in areas that are behind the national curve regarding the "Coin Fest" thing. The last 3 events I attended in MN (where I hide out most of the time during my work weeks) were all really enjoyable in that like most local groups, it's a group of really nice people I've enjoyed getting to know, but the whole Coin thing was really prevalent at all of them as well...TOO prevalent, in my opinion. Maybe it was just that the dominant personalities there were into the coin sales and so it was more pervasive than just the social aspect, I dunno. But for it to happen repeatedly at these events, along with my own observation elsewhere in the GeoWorld lately and the whole "let's get as many icons on our Trackable page as we can" thing, is what got my attention and spawned this thread. Like having to come to grips with the new reality as regards cache and stat quality, I guess I just need to come to grips with this new reality as well, and decide how to find ways to continue to try to enjoy the game in spite of it.

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Geocoins have become our version of baseball trading cards, nothing wrong with that. Personally I have limited myself to purchasing ones from events I attend or ones that are used for non-for profit . There will always be people who collect icons, there are also cachers who only prefer certain types of caches, at this point I have tried to accept that because of the growth Geocaching people are finding a wider range of interests.

 

I know how the OP feels about how long he has been Geocaching vs the number of finds, after 6 years I have yet to break 500 finds. On the other hand I can brag about the cache that took me three hours to hike up a mountain and some of the other more challenging caches. Which balances the karma of someone who found 500 caches in 6 months. Its all just a matter of focusing on what you enjoy and finding like minded people.

 

On the other hand having been involved for so long I can talk with certain people about how I miss Mitsuko and everyone else looks confused. I still miss her very much.

Edited by magellan315
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As a Geocaching "old timer", my disdain for The New Numbers Game and Micro Spew is well documented in these precincts; no need for me to re-hash all of that here again, after I peacefully took a break from the Forums for a year or so. During that time I've come to accept that this is the "new" game now, and I've cut back on my participation accordingly and work as hard as I can to locate caches that *I* would find enjoyable during the few times that I do choose to cache now.

 

I'm not an "oldtimer", more of a "middleagedtimer", but I agree totally. I could care less about numbers and counts. It's all about the hunt....

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Geocoins have become our version of baseball trading cards, nothing wrong with that. Personally I have limited myself to purchasing ones from events I attend or ones that are used for non-for profit . There will always be people who collect icons, there are also cachers who only prefer certain types of caches, at this point I have tried to accept that because of the growth Geocaching people are finding a wider range of interests.

 

I know how the OP feels about how long he has been Geocaching vs the number of finds, after 6 years I have yet to break 500 finds. On the other hand I can brag about the cache that took me three hours to hike up a mountain and some of the other more challenging caches. Which balances the karma of someone who found 500 caches in 6 months. Its all just a matter of focusing on what you enjoy and finding like minded people.

 

On the other hand having been involved for so long I can talk with certain people about how I miss Mitsuko and everyone else looks confused. I still miss her very much.

That "trading cards" analogy is very interesting and pertinent; I hadn't looked at it that way. Maybe I'm just a terrible cynic, but when I see the new emphasis on it at the Events I've attended recently, etc., I see Amway: They're having this hypnotic effect on people (whether it's the collecting, the "Icon ho'ing", the reselling on eBay, or the selling itself among those arranging their production), and a small number of people making money off an unsuspecting/brainwashed larger population.

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Does 3 1/2 years make a me a middle aged cacher?

 

I'm one of those cachers that got "icon burnout." I love to move travel bugs from one cache to another, or event on trips, visiting multiple caches. When I hosted my first event, I was very organized, and recorded every Traveler (bug and coin) with it's tracking number. I wrote down who dropped the travelers, and who retrieved them. This worked well for me. On the next event I attended (not my event), all of these numbers were recorded using a laptop computer. The entire list was emailed to all those cachers (who requested it) so they could add 100 to 200 new stats to their profile. I'm of the opinion that travel bugs should me moved not discovered.

 

To me this is nothing more than a new numbers padding scheme. In the beginning when unique coins / icons become popular, I got bitten by the icon bug. I would only discover coins if I physically touched them, and recorded the number myself. Now cachers don't even need to see the travelers, all they need to do is get a copy of the "master list." This isn't my game, and I don't agree with it.

 

 

I've never made it an issue, because I know that geocoins and the associated icons provide revenue for Groundspeak. I doubt TPTB will change anything, as long as money is being made.

 

My friend and I have discussed placing some 4.5 star terrain events, the problem is that the majority of So Cal cachers wouldn't attend because:

 

A: It isn't located in a restaurant

B: Carrying a backpack is required.

C: Hiking is a requirement.

Edited by Kit Fox
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...and to the exchange of lists of GeoCoin tracking numbers so that folks can pump up their Trackable stat and icon lists.

 

This I've never got. I've seen these lists passed around. I've also had coins that wound up on these lists and logs start coming in from an event in Tennesee while the coin is sitting in a cache in Oregon. What does it prove by logging these? That you can read?

 

I'm not into the discovering scene, but at least I can see logging it if you touched the coin at an event, or at least saw it. But a number from a sheet of paper? Bizarre. B)

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I'm of a like mind. I cache to discover new places and to enjoy caching. Numbers are fun to an extent. I have only just reached #300 and that cache is one that I took time to research as I wanted a memorible cache for a milestone, I didn't want some lame graveyard cache like #250 was.

 

As for discovering coins, no except for personal meet n' greet type coins. You want to use a coin as a way to remember those members you meet then fine. I will not discover a coin just so I can have an icon. It is just like cache owners that run out to their cache in which someone just dropped a TB and they want to claim another TB.

 

If you view my profile you will see that I only have 2 caches listed. I have placed 10 others but adpoted those to another cacher when I moved, even the archived caches. I could have archived the remainer of my caches and forced the new owner to create a new listing, but what is the point of that.

 

When others comment on my low cache hide count I inform them of this fact, but they really don't understand. Those are the same people that see archiving one of their caches and then placing another one in the same place as a new cache being OK. Some of those new hides are even the same exact name or "#2". I see this as another way of inflating stats.

 

I would love to have the old days back, an hour drive to just get into the teens and twenties. Sure I was able to get #100 in that first year, but that was one of the best. Now I only have to travel within a 36 mile radius to find 500 caches. Many of those have been boring caches without a point. What is so great about the top of a parking garage or the small wooded area behind a closed down Hot N Now? Give us Virtuals back or Locationless caches so we can use Historical Markers, I'm not going to be a WayMarker.

 

Maldar

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My friend and I have discussed placing some 4.5 star terrain events, the problem is that the majority of So Cal cachers wouldn't attend because:

 

A: It isn't located in a restaurant

B: Carrying a backpack is required.

C: Hiking is a requirement.

 

Reminds me of a local event that I could not attend, because it was on an island in the reservoir. Oh, well.

And, yes, I understand about icon-burnout. Okay, GC.com makes money off the icons, but enough is enough.

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I would love to have the old days back, an hour drive to just get into the teens and twenties. Sure I was able to get #100 in that first year, but that was one of the best.

I started almost exactly when you did down in So. Miss., and my early experience is almost identical. It was life-changing for me back then...the "hidden gem" locations in my own backyard (well, within a 200 mile radius!) that I discovered! Somehow I doubt today's new cachers are getting that same exhilaration.

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My friend and I have discussed placing some 4.5 star terrain events, the problem is that the majority of So Cal cachers wouldn't attend because:

 

A: It isn't located in a restaurant

B: Carrying a backpack is required.

C: Hiking is a requirement.

 

I will have to tell you when I plan on being in CA and you can hold me one of these events. LOL Hiking 35 miles through Yosimitie to and from Clouds Rest was the best. Having an event like that would be even better.

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My friend and I have discussed placing some 4.5 star terrain events, the problem is that the majority of So Cal cachers wouldn't attend because:

 

A: It isn't located in a restaurant

B: Carrying a backpack is required.

C: Hiking is a requirement.

 

Reminds me of a local event that I could not attend, because it was on an island in the reservoir. Oh, well.

And, yes, I understand about icon-burnout. Okay, GC.com makes money off the icons, but enough is enough.

 

Hey, it was a short swim.

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I'm new to this...so I"m sure my opinion doesn't carry much weight here. Regardless...

I found out about geocaching some time ago. However...I read up on it extensively before getting involved...books...forum posts...websites...you name it. I just recently took some classes at R.E.I's outdoor school in Plymouth Meeting, PA so that I could get some knowledge about land navigation, GPS, and using maps and a compass. The knowledge I've learned through these courses alone is so great...finding the caches with it nearly seems like icing on the cake. If it wasn't for the sheer point of being courteous enough to let someone know that their cache was found and enjoyed...I would be inclined to leave no trace of my presence whatsoever. I'd neither sign the log nor take from/give anything to, the cache. How many I ulimately find is moot. For me...the best part about geocaching is that it typically lands you on some small patch of sod that you'd never in a million years have seen were it not for the curiosity of what someone HID on that patch of dirt. In fact...I found my first cache today. I walked the whole way there and back as it's only a couple miles from my house...and it allowed me to use the GPS. :-p At any rate...the weather was amazing...the colors were starting to pop...my head was on a swivel to say the least. I found the cache...cracked a small smile...and went home. I haven't logged it...nor will I. I'm also going to place a few caches...because I think I know of some places that people will truly enjoy. I guess in my opinion...changes to the game are irrelevant if they don't pertain to your own approach to the activity. What other people do with the stuff they find...who cares.

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Somehow I doubt today's new cachers are getting that same exhilaration.

Probably not very often. Its hard to filter out the static of the PnG in some areas.

 

Granted new cachers have many more to choose from, but I do see the same caching interest and concern by both newbies and old timers. These days we both have to use the same filters.

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I do not think "discovering" 50 coins at an event to add icons and numbers to trackables makes any sense. So, I don't do it. It is fairly simple to see this when I bother to look at someone's stats, and if it looks like this is their preferred behavior, I close the window and think of it no more. If there's a bunch of folks doing this at an event, then I don't hang out with them.

 

I've been to few events since what the OP describes seems to be the trend. The three events I have attended were carefully chosen to not be this type of event, and were an absolute blast. Great conversation, non-judgemental cachers, and caching comrades through and through.

 

Like in caching - you find that which you seek. If you are looking (or expect to find) a crappy lampskirt micro, then it is amazing how many of those you shall find. If you look for a quality hike, a beautiful day, and serenity in nature, then it is likewise how many of those blessed caches that you shall find.

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I'm new to this...so I"m sure my opinion doesn't carry much weight here. Regardless...

I found out about geocaching some time ago. However...I read up on it extensively before getting involved...books...forum posts...websites...you name it. I just recently took some classes at R.E.I's outdoor school in Plymouth Meeting, PA so that I could get some knowledge about land navigation, GPS, and using maps and a compass. The knowledge I've learned through these courses alone is so great...finding the caches with it nearly seems like icing on the cake. If it wasn't for the sheer point of being courteous enough to let someone know that their cache was found and enjoyed...I would be inclined to leave no trace of my presence whatsoever. I'd neither sign the log nor take from/give anything to, the cache. How many I ulimately find is moot. For me...the best part about geocaching is that it typically lands you on some small patch of sod that you'd never in a million years have seen were it not for the curiosity of what someone HID on that patch of dirt. In fact...I found my first cache today. I walked the whole way there and back as it's only a couple miles from my house...and it allowed me to use the GPS. :-p At any rate...the weather was amazing...the colors were starting to pop...my head was on a swivel to say the least. I found the cache...cracked a small smile...and went home. I haven't logged it...nor will I. I'm also going to place a few caches...because I think I know of some places that people will truly enjoy. I guess in my opinion...changes to the game are irrelevant if they don't pertain to your own approach to the activity. What other people do with the stuff they find...who cares.

 

You totally understand the true meaning of this sport young grasshopper.

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I've never made it an issue, because I know that geocoins and the associated icons provide revenue for Groundspeak. I doubt TPTB will change anything, as long as money is being made.

 

My friend and I have discussed placing some 4.5 star terrain events, the problem is that the majority of So Cal cachers wouldn't attend because:

 

A: It isn't located in a restaurant

B: Carrying a backpack is required.

C: Hiking is a requirement.

 

As far as I am concerned GC.com making revenue off off Geocoins and icons is a good thing, it helps pay for the hardware and software upgrades and avoids requiring people to pay for membership to the website.

 

I really like the idea of a high terrain event cache. Sure a lot of people won't come because of the reasons listed, on the other hand the people who do come would be the type of people you would want to hang out, with, have a great time and I'm sure it would be talked about long after its over.

Go for it, its definitely something I would do.

 

Nothing wrong with tailoring an event to a specific criteria. This happens when resteraunts are selected you have to take into account location, parking, and capacity.

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Coins and stats mean little to nuthin to me. If I find a coin in a cache I'll take it and move it on. I've finally beat the 350 find mark, and its only taken me almost 6 years.

There won't be a large crowd when I host an event next month, heck it will probably be snowing and in the 20's. And we will be about 6 miles from the main road. But I'll enjoy the weekend and am itching to break out the tent and sleep in the snow.

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So far in this thread we (the horsegeeks) are kind of out in left field. We like ALL that geocaching has to offer. We have changed our style a bit in hiding but still enjoy most caches and all events, although like nittanydave don't understand the flashmob events although we went to one that ended up lasting an hour teehee. . We now hide mostly small and larger containers out on the trails. There are plenty of micros being hidden for us to hunt and not quite as many out in the woods so we want everyone to have a good time. I, the unemployed horsegeek, am headed out this morning to find some new micros that were hidden yesterday and then go for a long walk. As far as events we have a blast. When there is food cooked we just love to join in and help. We enjoy looking for the caches in the area of the event, showing off our binders of coins, trading and buying a few coins, talking (and bragging a bit at times) to everyone that is attending. We also like to try to make the new cachers feel at home by dragging them into conversations. In the Central North Carolina area we see none of the division of cachers that is reported in this forum. Everyone just seems to do what they enjoy and we get none of the griping that is reported in thread after thread of this forum. Have fun folks.

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During that time I've come to accept that this is the "new" game now,

 

The game is only 7 years old. This game is still in infant stage. We haven't even gotten close to the "new" game yet. It's coming.

 

 

Either way, I am definately a numbers cacher, but I think the great thing about geocaching is that you can take what you want and leave the rest. Me? I want to have a lot of finds. That's one of the biggest allures of the game for me. Others may want to only go for 3+ terrain caches. Others might only want urban micros. Just because to some (maybe most) cachers want to have a lot of finds does not mean that that is the ultimate goal for all cachers. Find the caches you want to find and leave the rest. There is no shame in that. Even if it means only five caches a year. Do whats right for you. If people have an issue with that, then they are missing the point of the game.

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So far in this thread we (the horsegeeks) are kind of out in left field. We like ALL that geocaching has to offer. We have changed our style a bit in hiding but still enjoy most caches and all events, although like nittanydave don't understand the flashmob events although we went to one that ended up lasting an hour teehee. . We now hide mostly small and larger containers out on the trails. There are plenty of micros being hidden for us to hunt and not quite as many out in the woods so we want everyone to have a good time. I, the unemployed horsegeek, am headed out this morning to find some new micros that were hidden yesterday and then go for a long walk. As far as events we have a blast. When there is food cooked we just love to join in and help. We enjoy looking for the caches in the area of the event, showing off our binders of coins, trading and buying a few coins, talking (and bragging a bit at times) to everyone that is attending. We also like to try to make the new cachers feel at home by dragging them into conversations. In the Central North Carolina area we see none of the division of cachers that is reported in this forum. Everyone just seems to do what they enjoy and we get none of the griping that is reported in thread after thread of this forum. Have fun folks.

 

I'm with you buddy, except for the flash mob thang. I just submitted a WWFM event. I guess I just gotta see for myself before I judge.

 

I find it hard to sit in judgement from my lofty, nearly old timer status. I've averaged just 100+ finds a year for my nearly 5 years, so numbers clearly aren't an issue with me.

 

Whatever floats folks is fine with me. I'm proud to know most of the top 100 in find stats by their first name and I've never felt inferior in their company. It amuses me to see folks show their jealousy in the way they cut the tip top cachers up when they most likely have never met and cached with them. It's even more amusing when someone does it at an event and I can tell them first hand about the person they are trying to down to make themself feel a little superior.

 

Traveler stats are the only stats I care about, yet I don't aspire to beat MaxB to top the list. I achieve my TB stats at my own pace and with my own set of discovery ethics. I still prefer to move TBs rather than discover them but I'm not above discovering a TB that I traded another TB for to make sure someone doesn't leave an event empty handed if they came lookin' to grab a tb. :rolleyes:

 

I guess how other folks find ways to excel at their game (or at least to feel that they are) just has little or no affect on me.

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The game is only 7 years old. This game is still in infant stage. We haven't even gotten close to the "new" game yet. It's coming.

 

Grasshopper,

 

It sounds like you may have some idea of HOW RIGHT YOU ARE! :huh::rolleyes::D

 

po.jpg

 

yeah I've seen your thread before.

 

BTW, for some strange reason, I once got my posting priviledges restricted for posting a link to one of my threads in someone elses threads.

Edited by simpjkee
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My wife is a huge Disney fan. We spend two or three weeks per year in Disney parks. Nearly all of our vacations are either for the purpose of visiting a Disney park someplace or include a side trip to a Disney park.

 

A number of years ago, Disney started cranking out pins. They produce gazillions of different pins and have kiosks around each park to buy and trade them. Further, the cast members all wear pins that they will trade with you.

 

Happily (for my bank account), Cathy isn't interested in pin collecting. She loves to go to the parks and we buy lots of Disney stuff, but not pins. While many visitors are happily buying and trading pins, we enjoying the parks the very same way that we always have.

 

Since the actions of the pin collectors don't affect us, we have no reason to ask that they stop collecting pins or that Disney stops producing them.

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For me and my family, its about the hunt, the find and finding somewhere new. We move a lot and caching is one of the best ways to get to know where you are and what is around you. I've never been big into numbers, but I'll always go look for that off-road cache in the mountains. As for TBs and coins, I think its silly to take numbers off a list and call it a find - but if you like it, have at it - I'm not competing against anyone but myself. I'll trade and move TBs all day long because I know how much my kids like it when their TBs get moved by someone who cares.

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I'm a professed noob. I started caching about 2 weeks ago. For me it's not about numbers or whether the cache is a micro or normal size. I do prefer the normal caches because, for me, caching is a way to spend time with my kids (and kids love prizes!). I went out and bought a load of SWAG the other day so that my kids can find the "treasure" and make some trades. Besides fulfilling my desire to spend time with my kids, I just think it's fun finding the cache, whatever form it may take.

 

As far as Cache events....I doubt that I'll ever go to one. I don't like crowds And the more people I'm with, the less of my attention is there for my kids. But almost every event has some sales parts, some politicking, some people trying to make themselves look good. I can't see Caching being different from the norm there. It's like eating fish...sometimes you find a bone...spit it out and keep eating!

 

TKOFaith

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I'm a professed noob. I started caching about 2 weeks ago. For me it's not about numbers or whether the cache is a micro or normal size. I do prefer the normal caches because, for me, caching is a way to spend time with my kids (and kids love prizes!). I went out and bought a load of SWAG the other day so that my kids can find the "treasure" and make some trades. Besides fulfilling my desire to spend time with my kids, I just think it's fun finding the cache, whatever form it may take.

 

As far as Cache events....I doubt that I'll ever go to one. I don't like crowds And the more people I'm with, the less of my attention is there for my kids. But almost every event has some sales parts, some politicking, some people trying to make themselves look good. I can't see Caching being different from the norm there. It's like eating fish...sometimes you find a bone...spit it out and keep eating!

 

TKOFaith

I wish you could try an event that we have here in Central, NC. We always have a ton of activities for the kids and plenty of kids to do the activities. We don't have any "politicking" and don't remember a time having people trying to make themselves look good (other than occasional bragging about finding a cache they have been trying forever). Events are my favorite part of geocaching both attending and either helping or actually hosting the event. I can't imagine other places being that much different. We have just started taking our grandson out caching and to events and it is fun to see things from his eyes and he loves it.
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drat19 you summed up a lot in your original posting as well as several others (mostly old timers, ie. 9Key, RK, Snoogs, Brian, Blue Deuce, ...et al) and I have relayed some of that to new cachers when they say, "You only have ’X’ number of finds?"

 

When I started caching, April of '02, there were only 600+ caches in Colorado. In fact I posted a note in the forums when Colorado hit the 1k mark in caches. It seemed to be a treat when a new cache popped up. Now, new "caches" pop up daily and en mass.

 

For me, I enjoy acquiring coins at events that I purchase but I do not place them in a cache. It is more of a memento for the occasion. It is also a treat when somebody thinks kindly of me to get me a coin as a gift. I have purchased some of our local coins to forward on as gifts to other cachers as a way of saying thanks for one reason or another. I agree that to sit down at a table and write down numbers on a coin doesn’t interest me. I like being able to visit with my caching friends and not have my snout buried in some coin book although I admit I will flip through and look. It is after all, a bit of art involved with a lot of the coins.

 

I see that there or so many newer cachers these days that seem to think they must place a vast amount of caches in every little nook and cranny. That boils down to one thing. The numbers! Hide a lot and find a lot.

It seems Geocaching has grown exponentially within the past few years. Is that bad or good? Sometimes I yearn for the earlier days of caching. I think we were more of a community. I could go on but really, only the old timers would understand.

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I'm a professed noob. I started caching about 2 weeks ago. For me it's not about numbers or whether the cache is a micro or normal size. I do prefer the normal caches because, for me, caching is a way to spend time with my kids (and kids love prizes!). I went out and bought a load of SWAG the other day so that my kids can find the "treasure" and make some trades. Besides fulfilling my desire to spend time with my kids, I just think it's fun finding the cache, whatever form it may take.

 

As far as Cache events....I doubt that I'll ever go to one. I don't like crowds And the more people I'm with, the less of my attention is there for my kids. But almost every event has some sales parts, some politicking, some people trying to make themselves look good. I can't see Caching being different from the norm there. It's like eating fish...sometimes you find a bone...spit it out and keep eating!

 

TKOFaith

I wish you could try an event that we have here in Central, NC. We always have a ton of activities for the kids and plenty of kids to do the activities. We don't have any "politicking" and don't remember a time having people trying to make themselves look good (other than occasional bragging about finding a cache they have been trying forever). Events are my favorite part of geocaching both attending and either helping or actually hosting the event. I can't imagine other places being that much different. We have just started taking our grandson out caching and to events and it is fun to see things from his eyes and he loves it.

Yup. Our kids love events! I think it's one of their favorite parts of geocaching. They get to have fun with other kids and get out to meet interesting people and do neat things. Sometimes there are special activities for the kids.

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Good post. I may remark on other parts later, but all I have time for now is this.

 

I think we were more of a community. I could go on but really, only the old timers would understand.

 

The first event I ever went to (The Texas Challenge by 9key & Umorrows & Moosiegirl) something like 80+ people showed up from alllll over Texas and that was a friggin' HUGE event for its time in early 2003.

 

The whole state of Texas became a close-knit community that day. A bond that still lasts and is renewed every year. We just had our 5th Texas Challenge (or 4th if you count the ChallAnge of 2005) :( and folks are already lookin' foreward to the next one that could possibly go Mega.

 

What I'm tryyying to say is it's the faces that change in the community, but the community spirit remains if there are groups of cachers interested in keeping the spirit alive.

 

There a precious few of us left still cachin' regularly from that first T.C. but the community is STRONG if not united under 1 banner.

 

If one were to only look backward, I can see how one would feel a sense of loss. I do when I look back on all those colorful folks who left the game or trailed off by degrees. :(

 

But there's always the NEXT event. :)

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The discussion floor is open for anyone who cares to partake...

The last major event we went to I didn't see a whole bunch of coins stuff. I did see a binder or two, and some guy jotting down some numbers, but that's about it. It was pretty cool. The politicking was mostly real world stuff. There was a lot of discussion on the direction of the hobby and how to encourage raising the quality. (A pretty interesting concept was presented.) I didn't do any caching except for two caches we walked right past on the morning CITO.

 

Our monthly chat-n-chews generally have a coin or two to pass around. I've been pretty impressed with the creativity and craftsmanship of some of the coins. If there's any discovering I'm not noticing any notes being taken though I'm pretty sure in this case a discovery log is warranted.

 

My biggest issue with, well, any trackable and the way it's changed the game is the way it limits placements. Groundspeak has chosen to allow a sub-branch t limit the core of the game. I remember back when the anchor coordinates of the mystery cache could be hundreds of miles away. This screwed with those folks near the anchor as they would have to travel a massive distance to log a cache simply to remove it from their list. (Newbies should note that we didn't allows have an ignore feature.)

 

While I'm glad that aspect was eliminated, I think they took it too far. Now, you can generally only have an offset of a mile or two. Heck, we've got cachers that are thorough enough to shortcut portions of puzzles and find the final via expiscation ( I discovered a new word!) mainly because the limitation reduces the area, and thusly the likely spots, in which to search. This makes the puzzle of a mystery cache very limited in one way or forces one to place a cache in even more obscure locations.

 

The main reason presented for this limitation is to keep a trackable's mileage more accurate. Huh? A multi can range hundreds of miles and yet that's not a problem, so what gives? I can physically pick up a bug in one portion of the state, but as far a mileage is concerned it thinks in was in 200 miles away in another portion or even off shore.

 

I simply don't agree with limiting the core activity because of a sub-branch.

 

My solution would have been different. A 10 mile limit would have been better and still fit the present thinking. I, personally, would have tossed out the TB criteria and made it something like 50 miles. 50 miles is not too far to travel for a cache. Besides, premium members can ignore a cache if they so chose.

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