FTF prizes

[+Sioneva]

The nature of the sport means there could be anything in the cache so a little common sense says maybe some supervision might be prudent. Especially if you are that uptight.

 

ANYTHING???

 

Well, yes. There *could* be anything. There are things that *shouldn't* be there, according to common sense and the Groundspeak rules, but you never know who will find it or what they will put in there.

 

That being said, scratch-off tickets are harmless, not banned by Groundspeak rules or the rules of common sense, and make great FTF prizes. Sorry.

[+JonInNH1]

The kid's parents can take the ticket in if it's a winner.

 

It wouldn't look good for a family friendly sport/hobby to be labeled as doing something illegal. While some people may enjoy finding lotto tickets in a cache; this does not mean we should engage in illegality for those eager scratchers (don’t we get enough scratching from poison ivy?). Many people would enjoy a bootleg DVD movie[hacked topo programs, or even copies of the latest delorme or streets and trips, but we do not put those in caches.

 

I have seen these, unfortunately I had them already.

[+RussellM]

Sometimes, the frowned upon items are the best. I happened to find some firecrackers in a geocache on the fourth of July. While i was under 18 at the time, they sure were fun. Was it illegal, prob not. Same story with lottery tickets. There is a popular cache around here which places lotto tickets for fun. I was under 18 when i found them and i believe it contributed to my delinquency.

Its just a fun ftf item, lighten up.

[+casey97]

i dont think scratch offs are gambling unless your the one purchasing the card

 

I don't think it is drinking gin unless you're the one purchasing the bottle.

 

I don't think it is smoking unless you're the one purchasing the pack of smokes.

 

All perfectly logical. [/sarcasm]

 

Explain it to the authorities.

[+StarBrand]

I think I have only included a specific FTF prize in 4 of my hides. Funny how the FTF cacher will sometimes claim one of the trade items as a FTF prize. They don't trade fairly - but that isn't new.

[+Scare Force One]

Anything that you want. It's totaly up to you. Your not even bound to put in an FTF unless you want to

 

~.~Scare Force One

[+private bones]

Easier diff ratings nothing, but FTF obviously getss pick of the stash which I always try to make really fun, and/or useful and appealing to cachers of all ages. Harder diff, 5$ bill for FTF.

[+JaxJeep95YJ]

i dont think scratch offs are gambling unless your the one purchasing the card

 

I don't think it is drinking gin unless you're the one purchasing the bottle.

 

I don't think it is smoking unless you're the one purchasing the pack of smokes.

 

All perfectly logical. [/sarcasm]

 

Explain it to the authorities.

To me..The real difference in this argument is contained in the Law you quoted earlier. It all has to do with the word "Contraband". Not being a lawyer myself, I would interpret this word as an illegal and controlled substance.(a noun) Alcohol. Tobacco. The act of drinking ( a verb) is not illegal. A minor can posses and drink a pepsi product. In fact, the minor could own a shot glass and drink a pepsi product from it. It is the controlled substance that makes the difference. A minor can not purchase, posses or drink a controlled substance or aka the contraband.

 

Gambling is an opposite situation. It is an action, a verb. You can gamble on anything. You can gamble with anything. It is the act itself that is in question, not the substance. The substance of a piece of paper ( the noun) is not illegal for a child to have. The act of playing the game is not illegal to do. The risk of and exchange of money is the issue. If the child can not purchase it and can not redeem it, then what is the contraband that the child is in possession of? Paper? with a game on it? You also mentioned poker chips earlier. They are made of plastic. Plastic is not a controlled substance. Like the shot glass, it may be a symbol of what you consider wrong but the fact is that it is not illegal contraband. I gamble on pool. But this is not "The Music Man" and the simple possession of a pool table nor does playing the actual game of pool constitute gambling. It is not illegal for a child to own playing cards. It is not illegal for a child to play a game of poker with the playing cards. It is not illegal for a child to go to Walmart and buy an electronic blackjack game. None of these things are considered contraband.

 

OK, now that I got that off my chest.. to the real topic of this thread. I just purchased a new GPS and I was considering placing a Cache with my old Magellan 315 in it as a FTF. I really want someone to take a buddy and it to go to a beginner that would need it. If I specify this in the cache description.. do you all think it will wind up in the right hands or is it more likely it will wind up on Ebay?

 

BTW, the person giving out the hand made pens as a FTF. That's really cool!

[+casey97]

To me..The real difference in this argument is contained in the Law you quoted earlier. It all has to do with the word "Contraband". Not being a lawyer myself, I would interpret this word as an illegal and controlled substance.(a noun) Alcohol. Tobacco. The act of drinking ( a verb) is not illegal. A minor can posses and drink a pepsi product. In fact, the minor could own a shot glass and drink a pepsi product from it. It is the controlled substance that makes the difference. A minor can not purchase, posses or drink a controlled substance or aka the contraband.

 

Gambling is an opposite situation. It is an action, a verb. You can gamble on anything. You can gamble with anything. It is the act itself that is in question, not the substance. The substance of a piece of paper ( the noun) is not illegal for a child to have. The act of playing the game is not illegal to do. The risk of and exchange of money is the issue. If the child can not purchase it and can not redeem it, then what is the contraband that the child is in possession of? Paper? with a game on it? You also mentioned poker chips earlier. They are made of plastic. Plastic is not a controlled substance. Like the shot glass, it may be a symbol of what you consider wrong but the fact is that it is not illegal contraband. I gamble on pool. But this is not "The Music Man" and the simple possession of a pool table nor does playing the actual game of pool constitute gambling. It is not illegal for a child to own playing cards. It is not illegal for a child to play a game of poker with the playing cards. It is not illegal for a child to go to Walmart and buy an electronic blackjack game. None of these things are considered contraband.

 

Wow, that is flawed. A child can legally purchase a deck of cards, a black jack game or any number of items. These legal items are great swag items and I have no qualms against them.

 

A child can not purchase alcohol, tobacco or scratch offs. You say it is not illegal for a child to have scratch offs, but it is illegal for them to purchase and illegal to refund winning tickets. It follows directly; if something is illegal to purchase because of your age, it is it is illegal to own because of your age.

 

Every argument you have made for allowing children to be able to gamble, or to allow children to be able to own scratch offs, can be used for any other illegal endeavor. Scroll up and re-read the previous discussions, but replace scratch off/gambling with alcohol/drinking or cigarettes/smoking. The same flawed reasoning will be shown.

Edited November 11, 2007 by casey97

[+Walt Jabsco]

RS 14§92. Contributing to the delinquency of juveniles

 

A. Contributing to the delinquency of juveniles is the intentional enticing, aiding, soliciting, or permitting, by anyone over the age of seventeen, of any child under the age of seventeen, and no exception shall be made for a child who may be emancipated by marriage or otherwise, to:

 

(1) Beg, sing, sell any article or play any musical instrument in any public place for the purpose of receiving alms.

 

wow. I've never seen the cops in new orleans bust the kids or their parents for performing on bourbon street or in jackson square. You might need to report them to the police the next time you see them do that. If you don't, you can be charged with the aiding and abetting a crime for failing to report it.

 

/sarcasm

[+DanOCan]

IF I leave a FTF prize it has been one of local caching group's geocoins, but only for the caches that are a little higher in difficulty. The easy ones get nothing.

 

I really like the lottery ticket idea and will be using that in the future.

[+JaxJeep95YJ]

Wow, that is flawed. A child can legally purchase a deck of cards, a black jack game or any number of items. These legal items are great swag items and I have no qualms against them.

 

A child can not purchase alcohol, tobacco or scratch offs. You say it is not illegal for a child to have scratch offs, but it is illegal for them to purchase and illegal to refund winning tickets. It follows directly; if something is illegal to purchase because of your age, it is it is illegal to own because of your age.

 

Every argument you have made for allowing children to be able to gamble, or to allow children to be able to own scratch offs, can be used for any other illegal endeavor. Scroll up and re-read the previous discussions, but replace scratch off/gambling with alcohol/drinking or cigarettes/smoking. The same flawed reasoning will be shown.

That's an interesting piece of law. Please post a link showing that it is not gambling. What on earth does tickets being just a piece of paper have to do with your assertion it is not gambling? Poker chips are just a piece of plastic, poker machines are just electrons in zeros and ones. What does the medium have to do with gambling?

I have read the whole thread

 

Without spending hours on it, I tried to look up specific laws in my state to see if there was anything to support either of our opinions. I didn't come up with much. I did find this which said "The State of Florida, Federal laws and the Florida Lottery rules and regulations require that participants be at least eighteen (18) years old." After reading this, I came up with another illustration for my opinion. The McDonalds Monopoly game! You have to be a certain age to participate/redeem prizes. 18 most likely. But what about possession of the game pieces or the paper board they fit on? I see that there is an age limit to "participate" not to be in "possession."

 

Ya know, I don't really expect to change your mind. I can tell it is firm in it's opinion. And again, I'm not a lawyer and not trained in law and I could very well be wrong in my own opinion. Still, if I am in the wrong, I still feel pretty safe in thinking that the police in my city have worse things to deal with than a kid with a piece of paper in his hand that he can't smoke or drink or even redeem.

 

Now, would you also give me an opinion on the other FTF question I asked? I would love to give the GPS to a first time player with a first time find. What a way to introduce someone to the game! I just don't have faith it would go like that. Any suggestions?

[+WyseGuys]

FTF prize? In one of my caches I left an unactivated TB for the STF. The FTF got the physiological satisfaction of the FTF. Having a prize for the second finder definitely kept the interest going.

[+Degai]

I only have one regular cache and when I placed it I made a special card congratulating the FTF person. I also put a FTF coin in the envelope and I also might have included a pizza hut gift card, too.