Painted Over Marks

[+slippeddisk]

Found JW0226 today, it has not been reported since it was monumented in 1957, and when I found it I could see why. It looks like someone chipped the paint away between paint jobs. This is the third mark I have found painted over in the short time I have been hunting. Is this common? If it is it begs the question, Why would you not paint around something like that? Its sort of like painting the hardware on all your doors and windows. Just wondering if you have come across much of this?

[wwflover13]

I don't know exactly how they paint the curbs, but since there's so much painting to be done I doubt the workers were paying enough attention to even notice it. I'm not sure the legality of it, but I don't think anyone would mind if someone scraped off the paint covering the mark. I haven't found any like this, hopefully there aren't very many that bad.

[foxtrot_xray]

In all my years (uh.. 5 now? Tho, granted, it's more of a 'pasttime' than severe hunting..) I've come across three - one local to me, on a building. It was painted red. Another was out in Kansas, in Dodge City, painted over white. The last is in Gainesville also on a building and also red.. It had started to be painted over, but they left a round, 1-inch circle in the center unpainted. (Never understood that one..)

 

me.

[+Harry Dolphin]

I'd guesstimate about 20 (out of 600 or so finds)

Sometimes, its grafitto.

Sometimes it's covering over grafitto. Somtimes just painting the building. I found one where the building had been stuccoed, with a hole left in the stucco for the disk!

I think that it's been agreed that we amateurs should not try removing paint.

[Bill93]

My take on it is that you should not try to chip the paint off (unless it is peeling which I haven't encountered) or use abrasives that might mar the disk.

 

But if building owners don't mind or it is on something where that is not an issue, I recommend an organic solvent (nail polish remover, carburator cleaner, paint thinner) that will not corrode the metal. Place a rag or paper napkin soaked with solvent on the disk, cover with plastic or foil to retard evaporation, and leave for a while. Do not smoke while waiting. Then rub the softened paint with a rag. A few applications of this has worked several times for me.

[+A tapeworm]

 

Sometimes, its grafitto.

 

 

Now THAT'S cool! Much more exciting than, for instance, OK0476, which is painted merely a disturbing shade of pink.

 

Looks like a new contest topic: ninja hunting for camoflaged BMs!

[+PFF]

It is my opinion that our group should not attempt to remove paint. The paint actually protects the disk from the elements. It also makes it less visible. Hence, it is less likely to be tampered with.

 

In the photos above, each of the marks could be used by a professional surveyor, as is. The elevation line is evident without removing paint.

 

Remember, the pro's don't need the entire disk to do their job--only the center. If a portion of the disk needs to be cleared, they know how to do it.

 

However, for those who submit reports to NGS, the fact that a disk is painted over is an appropriate inclusion in your remarks.

 

-Paul-

[2oldfarts (the rockhounders)]

 

Sometimes, its grafitto.

 

Looks like a new contest topic: ninja hunting for camoflaged BMs!

 

The brain saw this as "Night" hunting for camoflaged BMs!.......Hmmmm

 

 

John

[+Holtie22]

Here's another one!

 

At first, I thought I was going to have to dig through the mulch with the way the witness post was placed.

[ArtMan]

This raises another issue: what if the overpainting has made the stamping illegible.

 

Last week I recovered station PTS 3 (GW0125), located at the county courthouse in Palmyra, Virginia.

 

 

As you can see, the manufactured lettering on the disk is visible through the paint, but not the stamping specified on the datasheet ("STA NO 3 VA").

 

I don't have any particular doubt that this is the disk described, though I could imagine a scenario in which it might not be. I have reported it as "found" on Geocaching, and plan to report it as found in good condition to the NGS while noting that the disk is painted over and therefore the stamping could not be confirmed.

 

Comments?

 

-ArtMan-

[Papa-Bear-NYC]

Here's a few.

It's there, can you spot it?

KU0891

 

In a Greek neighborhood in Queens

KU1069

 

KU1068

 

I did the scraping on this. Probably a mistake:

KU1057

 

And this is my best:

KU1058

[wwflover13]

It is my opinion that our group should not attempt to remove paint. The paint actually protects the disk from the elements. It also makes it less visible. Hence, it is less likely to be tampered with.

....

 

I didn't consider this when I suggested removing paint. I have changed my view on this and now believe that in most circumstances removing paint would be a bad idea. Good topic of discussion though. That was a very interesting find Papa-Bear-NYC made on KU1058

[Papa-Bear-NYC]

It is my opinion that our group should not attempt to remove paint. The paint actually protects the disk from the elements. It also makes it less visible. Hence, it is less likely to be tampered with.

....

 

I didn't consider this when I suggested removing paint. I have changed my view on this and now believe that in most circumstances removing paint would be a bad idea. Good topic of discussion though. That was a very interesting find Papa-Bear-NYC made on KU1058

Yeah, KU1058 is the worst I have ever seen. And coincidently, it's just a couple of blocks up the hill from KU1057, the one I did scrape some of the paint off of. They were both on concrete footings for piers which hold up the Queensboro bridge.

[+GrizzFlyer]

Have recovered several painted-over benchmarks, almost all were on bridge abutments and were painted over with that white clings-to-anything paint.

 

Also recovered the same red one Foxtrot Xray was probably referring to in his post above. EE0233 in Woodstock, right FX?

[foxtrot_xray]

Also recovered the same red one Foxtrot Xray was probably referring to in his post above. EE0233 in Woodstock, right FX?

Yuppers, that was it! You travelling through, or you live down here now?

[wbf pls]

Check out JU0046 on the floor of the Salem NJ fire house. They recoated the floor, including the disk.

[68-eldo]

It is my opinion that our group should not attempt to remove paint.

 

I find this something of a contradiction to many earlier threads. If you are not able to read the stamping on the disk how can you say for sure that you found it? Obviously if the paint is thin enough you can make out the stamping then you don’t need to remove the paint. Also if the disk is on the side of a building you need to get the owners permission. If the owner says no and you can not read the stamping then can you claim the find? I would think when reporting to NGS you need to be able to read the stamping. Otherwise you would have to say you may have found it but the paint was too thick to verify.

 

As for the paint protecting the disk, I’m sure it does help, but the made them out of bronze so the disk would last a long time with little deterioration. With the exception of disk placed where the ocean waves sometimes hit them I have seen little deterioration of the disk I’ve recovered.

[+GrizzFlyer]

Also recovered the same red one Foxtrot Xray was probably referring to in his post above. EE0233 in Woodstock, right FX?

Yuppers, that was it! You travelling through, or you live down here now?

 

We stayed in Canton for a few days, it was a motorcycling get-together thing. Some of the locals showed us the back northern Georgia roads, but we had a spare day to do some benchmarking/caching.

 

EE0063 was my favorite in the area. A 1927 cut square in excellent condition, and you were the only other person to log it, even though there was another "regular" BM just 30 feet away that was logged multiple times.

 

OK, back to regularly scheduled programming, painted benchmarks. Didn't want to highjack the thread.

[+PFF]

I would think when reporting to NGS you need to be able to read the stamping. Otherwise you would have to say you may have found it but the paint was too thick to verify.

 

That is an excellent way to handle it.

 

By the way, one of our most diligent "verifiers" is ArtMan, who insisted on uncovering all the stamping on station WALNUT, despite what is visible in this area view of the pavement.

 

[Bill93]

>The paint actually protects the disk from the elements. It also makes it less visible. Hence, it is less likely to be tampered with.

 

I don't have any experience with sea water, but in my area the elements are not a problem for bronze disks.

 

You need to make the judgment in each case whether it is better to let the disk remain disguised to reduce tampering or to expose it (or even paint an orange circle around it) so it looks important and is less likely to get destroyed by "progress".

[+PFF]

I'll agree with the earlier comments about how rugged the disks are and how they resist weathering. When I made my remark, it was from the perspective of having recovered granite survey marks nearly 200 years old, and noticing that exposure had taken its toll on the lettering. Ditto for old gravestones. Bronze disks appear to be very durable. I've recovered numerous ones which were about 75 years old, and most were in pretty good condition. Those which were not may have been affected by highway or agricultural chemicals.

 

Being interested in history, I tend to think in terms of hundreds of years. If something is covered with paint for 50 years, would the paint not, in theory, extend the object's life by that amount? I, for one, will not be around to find out.

 

Meanwhile, if you cannot verify the lettering on the disk (for any reason), then simply make a note in your recovery log. Here's one from a recent upload (with emphasis added for this post):

FZ1840 STATION RECOVERY (2007)

FZ1840

FZ1840'RECOVERY NOTE BY GEOCACHING 2007 (PFF)

FZ1840'THE STATION, RM1 AND RM2 WERE RECOVERED AS DESCRIBED. THE AZMIUTH MARK

FZ1840'WAS NOT SEARCHED FOR.

FZ1840'

FZ1840'A TEMPORARY METAL BLEACHER HAS BEEN PLACED OVER RM1. THE MONUMENT WAS

FZ1840'VISIBILE BUT THE DISK STAMPING WAS NOT VERIFIED. THE CALCULATED

FZ1840'COORDINATES FOR RM1 (BY NGS FORWARD) ARE

FZ1840'N36 13 56.49368 W080 42 14.29754.

FZ1840'

FZ1840'THE CALCULATED COORDINATES FOR RM2 ARE

FZ1840'N36 13 56.92250 W080 42 14.48397. ITS MONUMENT PROJECTS 3 CM.

 

-Paul-

[andylphoto]

I've found four that I can recall. One was painted over on a highway bridge support (first one pictured) and the other three were on railroad bridge abutments where the bridges passed over city streets. They had been painted into murals. All were more difficult to spot than had they not been painted, but once I located the disks, I had no problem reading the stamping.

 

PN0706

RK0466

RK0469

RK0470

Edited October 29, 2007 by andylphoto

[+Ernmark]

[hijack]

 

I don't have any experience with sea water, but in my area the elements are not a problem for bronze disks.

 

 

LINDENSTRUTH - HU1521 - Ocean City, MD

 

..what it used to look like:

 

[/hijack]

Edited October 29, 2007 by Ernmark

[+Kewaneh & Shark]

Here are a few of the painted marks I've found. Most are on the headwall structures of irrigation canals which are commonly painted white. The painters don't really care what's in the way. Some of the pics I've included show the paint peeling off of the marks.

 

GT1485

Link to Big Pic

 

GT1534

Link to Big Pic

 

GT1535

Link to Big Pic

 

GU0999

Link to Big Pic

 

GU1021

Link to Big Pic

 

GU1152

Link to Big Pic

 

GU1210

Link to Big Pic

 

GU1665

Link to Big Pic

 

HS1074

Link to Big Pic

 

...but I think concrete is worse than paint.

GU1077

Link to Big Pic

 

- Kewaneh

[AZcachemeister]

[hijack]

 

I don't have any experience with sea water, but in my area the elements are not a problem for bronze disks.

 

 

LINDENSTRUTH - HU1521 - Ocean City, MD

 

..what it used to look like:

 

[/hijack]

 

I suppose that 'used to' picture is from a nearby mark from the same era...it certainly isn't the same mark!

 

I have recovered more than a few painted over marks (too lazy to post links to the photos right now), but all of them were identifiable (the stamping was discernible). I'm not sure what I will do if I ever have one PID and three painted-over disks in front of me.