Twisted Humor in Not Signing FTF in Cache Logs

[+Rockin Roddy]

WAH WAH WAH!

 

i just got back from an 160 mile round trip drive going after two FTFs.

 

I got sloppy seconds on one and third on the other!

 

WAH WAH WAH! Woe is me!

 

Some totally discourteous *********** didn't log the FTF before I left this morning! And he had found it at EIGHT O'CLOCK! Fully TWO HOURS before I set out on my 160 mile quest!

 

THE FTF STILL HAS NOT LOGGED ON THE FIRST ONE!

 

OH WOE IS ME!

 

</sarcasm>

 

Oh, Did I mention?

Absolutely GREAT day outside. Cool damp air with a light misty rain. The second cache was at a really cool wetland preserve with a fantastic boardwalk and elevated walkway system that made for easy walking for the Wifemate and Narg. We saw three deers and a woodpecker, heard multiple geese, had a nice 2 mile walk and took some pictures. (All of which were not directly involved in the micro cache hunts themselves but they took me to the area)

 

I've had the unfortunate honor of knowing a "friend" who just couldn't argue his point without being childish. Every time we got into a heated debate, he'd act all rude and childish as if his point was the only point and anyone who had another, he thought they were just off! Really takes the fun out of the debate!! We've all run across this type before, right? I think an arguemnet is childish when the person uses extreme sarcasm to make a point (and throws in some childish sobs and such) so as to antagonize the others who don't agree with him/her. A childish arguement is when the person has nothing meaningful to say, can't come up with a reasonable comment, so just acts childish so as to be obnoxious. I'm sure you've seen this type of action before in your postings on the forums...haven't you? Sure makes the debate go downhill fast, doesn't it?

 

Again, if you need it explained, you'll never get it.

 

Swamp Thing...you got mad because someone beat you to a spot and placed a cache so you could enjoy it? Truly? You got mad at someone attempting to give back to the caching community? I understand your disappointment in not being able to place the hide...but you couldn't move it and place one to show the other cacher what a cache should look like?

 

NO I DID NOT ENJOY HIS CACHE!!

 

It was LAME!! I did forgive him because it was his first cache ever. To move mine would mean putting it across the 350 feet deep ravine to the other side of the bridge where there were no trails to the bottom of the footing of the arch. His cache said NOT to cross the bridge (cause he was too scared to walk across it.)

 

 

I LOVE SARCASM!!! IF YOU DON'T, then go somewhere else than the forums. Sarcasm abounds here.

 

AND WE LOVE IT!!!!!!!!

 

My teen sometimes had trouble with his attitude. He would whine and cry about things he didn't like or agree with, start pouting and then make fun of what he didn't like/agree with. It was funny at first to see him go into his tirades, but boy was I glad he grew out of that little stage...at the age of 8.

 

I didn't realize you owned these forums, I'll quickly pack up and move on. Sorry to have rained on your parade.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(that's sarcasm...in case you missed it)!

[4wheelin_fool]

 

i just got back from an 160 mile round trip drive going after two FTFs.

 

I got sloppy seconds on one and third on the other!

 

WAH WAH WAH! Woe is me!

 

Some totally discourteous *********** didn't log the FTF before I left this morning! And he had found it at EIGHT O'CLOCK! Fully TWO HOURS before I set out on my 160 mile quest!

 

 

Sheesh, thats your own fault. You should have filed an online FTF the night before you intended to look for it. That way your FTF would have been reserved.

<sarcasm>

I love it!

 

Guaranteed FTF and you don't even have to leave your keyboard!

</sarcasm>

(Wouldn't have worked in my case though, cause I don't do the PQ until i am ready to leave for the caches.)

 

Sometimes it is very interesting to "turn around" an argument. Sometimes we can gain a lot of insight from the method, like when Dave Ramsey asks, "if you had a paid for house would you borrow against it to play the stock market?"

 

So, what if someone DID log a false FTF as soon as the cache was published (or perhaps before?) just so others who would seek it for no other reason than the FTF "race" would not bother? Based on other FTF threads, I would bet (figuratively speaking) that there are some who would consider that a "fair" practice. (We have ALL kinds in the sport.)

 

I'd even go so far as to bet (figuratively speaking) that it has been done and is perhaps a commonly used method by a few FTF hounds.

 

It would be hard to catch, too. All the offender would have to do is log the find without the text "FTF" in the log, then go immediately and find the cache. Then if they were not first, they simply sign second (or seventeenth or whatever) and if anybody asks, they just got their online log in first. Proof COULD be had, but most of the time would probably be deemed not worth the effort.

 

It would definitely keep ME from going after it as FTF because it would eliminate it from my PQ.

 

With all the threads about how to make FTF "FAIR" (meaning handicap thecachers who are good at it and willing to put forth the extra effort), I am surprised someone has not brought this up as a method of keeping the "regulars" off of a new cache. I.E. I'd be surprised if this isn't being done by cache OWNERS.

 

It IS one plausible explanation of the many caches that have finds logged on them BEFORE publication. (This is not much more of a stretch than assuming a non-existent online log means the log book signer is playing a joke.)

 

*zicccka, ziccka, ziccka...* (sound of a new can of worms opening)

 

Actually, my intended log would look something like this:

4Wheelin_fool (898 found) FTF!! WOOHOO First is FUN! Wow, a blank logsheet to greet me! ...... Great hide! TNLN Thanks!!!

 

Actually, I didnt even leave the house yet, but I am on my way there now, so SCAT! You have NO chance.. and I am pretty sure it will be a great hide and I will find it very soon....

Edited October 29, 2007 by 4wheelin_fool

[+Rockin Roddy]

 

i just got back from an 160 mile round trip drive going after two FTFs.

 

I got sloppy seconds on one and third on the other!

 

WAH WAH WAH! Woe is me!

 

Some totally discourteous *********** didn't log the FTF before I left this morning! And he had found it at EIGHT O'CLOCK! Fully TWO HOURS before I set out on my 160 mile quest!

 

 

Sheesh, thats your own fault. You should have filed an online FTF the night before you intended to look for it. That way your FTF would have been reserved.

<sarcasm>

I love it!

 

Guaranteed FTF and you don't even have to leave your keyboard!

</sarcasm>

(Wouldn't have worked in my case though, cause I don't do the PQ until i am ready to leave for the caches.)

 

Sometimes it is very interesting to "turn around" an argument. Sometimes we can gain a lot of insight from the method, like when Dave Ramsey asks, "if you had a paid for house would you borrow against it to play the stock market?"

 

So, what if someone DID log a false FTF as soon as the cache was published (or perhaps before?) just so others who would seek it for no other reason than the FTF "race" would not bother? Based on other FTF threads, I would bet (figuratively speaking) that there are some who would consider that a "fair" practice. (We have ALL kinds in the sport.)

 

I'd even go so far as to bet (figuratively speaking) that it has been done and is perhaps a commonly used method by a few FTF hounds.

 

It would be hard to catch, too. All the offender would have to do is log the find without the text "FTF" in the log, then go immediately and find the cache. Then if they were not first, they simply sign second (or seventeenth or whatever) and if anybody asks, they just got their online log in first. Proof COULD be had, but most of the time would probably be deemed not worth the effort.

 

It would definitely keep ME from going after it as FTF because it would eliminate it from my PQ.

 

With all the threads about how to make FTF "FAIR" (meaning handicap thecachers who are good at it and willing to put forth the extra effort), I am surprised someone has not brought this up as a method of keeping the "regulars" off of a new cache. I.E. I'd be surprised if this isn't being done by cache OWNERS.

 

It IS one plausible explanation of the many caches that have finds logged on them BEFORE publication. (This is not much more of a stretch than assuming a non-existent online log means the log book signer is playing a joke.)

 

*zicccka, ziccka, ziccka...* (sound of a new can of worms opening)

 

Actually, my intended log would look something like this:

4Wheelin_fool (898 found) FTF!! WOOHOO First is FUN! Wow, a blank logsheet to greet me! ...... Great hide! TNLN Thanks!!!

 

Actually, I didnt even leave the house yet, but I am on my way there now, so SCAT! You have NO chance.. and I am pretty sure it will be a great hide and I will find it very soon....

 

It would be funny to see someone do just this...and then be beaten to the cache!!

[+Mule Ears]

I've seen a case in which a cacher tried to 'reserve' the FTF by posting a false log. Online, he told a cock-and-bull story about finding the cache and being confronted by a mountain lion. His dog valiantly defended him, he said, while he dropped the cache and skedaddled. Since he was interrupted before getting a chance to sign the logbook, he'd return soon to seal the deal. But in the meantime, he logged it as a find.

 

I set out the next day and found the cache undisturbed in its original hilltop hidey hole. A key element of his story was that he'd had the cache in hand and dropped it in his hasty retreat, so the whole thing was revealed as a fraud. We later found that he had posted and continued to post a lot of false online logs.

 

Moral of the story: If you're going to try to lock in FTF with a phony online log, keep your story simple and plausible. And remember that your online log is just a delaying tactic--you still have to hustle out there and sign the log before some STF hound arrives.

[Decoski]

I've seen a case in which a cacher tried to 'reserve' the FTF by posting a false log. Online, he told a cock-and-bull story about finding the cache and being confronted by a mountain lion. His dog valiantly defended him, he said, while he dropped the cache and skedaddled. Since he was interrupted before getting a chance to sign the logbook, he'd return soon to seal the deal. But in the meantime, he logged it as a find.

 

I set out the next day and found the cache undisturbed in its original hilltop hidey hole. A key element of his story was that he'd had the cache in hand and dropped it in his hasty retreat, so the whole thing was revealed as a fraud. We later found that he had posted and continued to post a lot of false online logs.

 

Moral of the story: If you're going to try to lock in FTF with a phony online log, keep your story simple and plausible. And remember that your online log is just a delaying tactic--you still have to hustle out there and sign the log before some STF hound arrives.

 

I think the "best" way to lie about a FTF is to go to a BYOP cache online log and write that you forgot a pen or that your pen didn't work when you got there.

[+Kealia]

I think the "best" way to lie about a FTF is to go to a BYOP cache online log and write that you forgot a pen or that your pen didn't work when you got there.

 

As a cache owner, I'd delete that find . Seriously. Especailly if it was listed as BYOP.

 

But aren't we getting off topic on this one?

I think there are clearly two camps:

1 thinks it's funny as sees no issues with it

1 thinks it's not funny

 

Did I miss anything?

[+lpyankeefan]

That's actually pretty funny.

 

 

Okay, I actually laughed at this just now, BUT only because of my normally tilted view of the world and twisted sense of humor.

 

I might have also been peeved at the time, but after hiking back down to the car would have found it pretty funny.

[+Team HHD1]

I think it is a sad, twisted sense of humor that I do not care for.

 

A couple of years back when my family and I 1st started this sport, we were just a few months into it actually, we were heading out on vacation. Our trip was only 2 hours to the island we were to stay at and we noticed 3 new caches in the area of our destination just before we left. After arriving to the 1st cache (went straight to it before checking in) we noticed the log book was empty and our kids were very happy to have our 1st FTF. We signed the logbook and logged our FTF that night at the hotel where we stayed online. About 2 weeks later, I recieved an email from that cache page because we were watching it. It was from the original FTF'rs... We knew it had to be true since they said they had left a button in the cache that we took as a trade. We never described it, but they did when they logged. So they found it, didn't sign and logged it a couple of weeks later. They were from the area of the hide...

 

What a let down and a slight embaressment since we had put it on our profile page and had to take it down.

 

Was it funny? No. Is this funny to others? I would hope not. Some people get thier kicks knowing other people are disapointed. I don't care to know these people.

 

I just chock it up to the fact that [edited by moderator] are everywhere, and it's sad they found a gps unit and decided to introduce their best side to this sport.

Edited November 1, 2007 by Quiggle

[Swamp-Thing]

WAH WAH WAH!

 

i just got back from an 160 mile round trip drive going after two FTFs.

 

I got sloppy seconds on one and third on the other!

 

WAH WAH WAH! Woe is me!

 

Some totally discourteous *********** didn't log the FTF before I left this morning! And he had found it at EIGHT O'CLOCK! Fully TWO HOURS before I set out on my 160 mile quest!

 

THE FTF STILL HAS NOT LOGGED ON THE FIRST ONE!

 

OH WOE IS ME!

 

</sarcasm>

 

Oh, Did I mention?

Absolutely GREAT day outside. Cool damp air with a light misty rain. The second cache was at a really cool wetland preserve with a fantastic boardwalk and elevated walkway system that made for easy walking for the Wifemate and Narg. We saw three deers and a woodpecker, heard multiple geese, had a nice 2 mile walk and took some pictures. (All of which were not directly involved in the micro cache hunts themselves but they took me to the area)

 

I've had the unfortunate honor of knowing a "friend" who just couldn't argue his point without being childish. Every time we got into a heated debate, he'd act all rude and childish as if his point was the only point and anyone who had another, he thought they were just off! Really takes the fun out of the debate!! We've all run across this type before, right? I think an arguemnet is childish when the person uses extreme sarcasm to make a point (and throws in some childish sobs and such) so as to antagonize the others who don't agree with him/her. A childish arguement is when the person has nothing meaningful to say, can't come up with a reasonable comment, so just acts childish so as to be obnoxious. I'm sure you've seen this type of action before in your postings on the forums...haven't you? Sure makes the debate go downhill fast, doesn't it?

 

Again, if you need it explained, you'll never get it.

 

Swamp Thing...you got mad because someone beat you to a spot and placed a cache so you could enjoy it? Truly? You got mad at someone attempting to give back to the caching community? I understand your disappointment in not being able to place the hide...but you couldn't move it and place one to show the other cacher what a cache should look like?

 

NO I DID NOT ENJOY HIS CACHE!!

 

It was LAME!! I did forgive him because it was his first cache ever. To move mine would mean putting it across the 350 feet deep ravine to the other side of the bridge where there were no trails to the bottom of the footing of the arch. His cache said NOT to cross the bridge (cause he was too scared to walk across it.)

 

 

I LOVE SARCASM!!! IF YOU DON'T, then go somewhere else than the forums. Sarcasm abounds here.

 

AND WE LOVE IT!!!!!!!!

 

My teen sometimes had trouble with his attitude. He would whine and cry about things he didn't like or agree with, start pouting and then make fun of what he didn't like/agree with. It was funny at first to see him go into his tirades, but boy was I glad he grew out of that little stage...at the age of 8.

 

I didn't realize you owned these forums, I'll quickly pack up and move on. Sorry to have rained on your parade.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(that's sarcasm...in case you missed it)!

 

You seem to be the one who thinks he owns the forums. Inferring that people that use sarcasm are childish and ruin forum debates.

 

But then you did just use sarcasm yourself.

 

I was just offering you a suggestion. I care not whether you go or stay.

[+Confucius' Cat]

WAH WAH WAH!

 

i just got back from an 160 mile round trip drive going after two FTFs.

 

I got sloppy seconds on one and third on the other!

 

WAH WAH WAH! Woe is me!

 

Some totally discourteous *********** didn't log the FTF before I left this morning! And he had found it at EIGHT O'CLOCK! Fully TWO HOURS before I set out on my 160 mile quest!

 

THE FTF STILL HAS NOT LOGGED ON THE FIRST ONE!

 

OH WOE IS ME!

 

</sarcasm>

 

Oh, Did I mention?

Absolutely GREAT day outside. Cool damp air with a light misty rain. The second cache was at a really cool wetland preserve with a fantastic boardwalk and elevated walkway system that made for easy walking for the Wifemate and Narg. We saw three deers and a woodpecker, heard multiple geese, had a nice 2 mile walk and took some pictures. (All of which were not directly involved in the micro cache hunts themselves but they took me to the area)

 

I've had the unfortunate honor of knowing a "friend" who just couldn't argue his point without being childish. Every time we got into a heated debate, he'd act all rude and childish as if his point was the only point and anyone who had another, he thought they were just off! Really takes the fun out of the debate!! We've all run across this type before, right? I think an arguemnet is childish when the person uses extreme sarcasm to make a point (and throws in some childish sobs and such) so as to antagonize the others who don't agree with him/her. A childish arguement is when the person has nothing meaningful to say, can't come up with a reasonable comment, so just acts childish so as to be obnoxious. I'm sure you've seen this type of action before in your postings on the forums...haven't you? Sure makes the debate go downhill fast, doesn't it?

 

Again, if you need it explained, you'll never get it.

 

Swamp Thing...you got mad because someone beat you to a spot and placed a cache so you could enjoy it? Truly? You got mad at someone attempting to give back to the caching community? I understand your disappointment in not being able to place the hide...but you couldn't move it and place one to show the other cacher what a cache should look like?

 

NO I DID NOT ENJOY HIS CACHE!!

 

It was LAME!! I did forgive him because it was his first cache ever. To move mine would mean putting it across the 350 feet deep ravine to the other side of the bridge where there were no trails to the bottom of the footing of the arch. His cache said NOT to cross the bridge (cause he was too scared to walk across it.)

 

 

I LOVE SARCASM!!! IF YOU DON'T, then go somewhere else than the forums. Sarcasm abounds here.

 

AND WE LOVE IT!!!!!!!!

 

My teen sometimes had trouble with his attitude. He would whine and cry about things he didn't like or agree with, start pouting and then make fun of what he didn't like/agree with. It was funny at first to see him go into his tirades, but boy was I glad he grew out of that little stage...at the age of 8.

 

I didn't realize you owned these forums, I'll quickly pack up and move on. Sorry to have rained on your parade.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(that's sarcasm...in case you missed it)!

 

You seem to be the one who thinks he owns the forums. Inferring that people that use sarcasm are childish and ruin forum debates.

 

But then you did just use sarcasm yourself.

 

I was just offering you a suggestion. I care not whether you go or stay.

I concur.

The constant repetitions of such condescending remarks as quoted below and the constant reference to those who disagree as "childish" is certainly not adding anything substantive to the "debate."

Again, if you need it explained, you'll never get it.

 

But again...if it has to be explained to you, you'll probably never get it!

 

If it has to be explained to you guys, you'll probably never get it!

 

I think this has pretty much run aground.

[+Rockin Roddy]

sorry...feeling a bit angsty today. will be the last I post to this as I feel I'm wasting my time explaining this over and over.

Edited October 30, 2007 by Rockin Roddy

[+mtn-man]

Um, children...

 

BACK IT DOWN!

 

Post like adults or you will be sent to the time out room. Please don't make us turn this topic around.

 

(Lucky I saw this today. I was cranky yesterday.)

Edited October 30, 2007 by mtn-man

[+Mule Ears]

OK, back on topic: I recently went after a high-profile cache that hadn't been logged yet (link), and because of its remoteness had a pretty good shot at FTF. When I found the cache, I had two pleasant surprises: I was FTF, and I had a decent cell signal. Not wanting to sandbag anyone going for FTF*, I posted a quick log from the cache site.

 

Can't log online any quicker than that.

 

I found out later that logs entered via WAP don't seem to generate email notifications, so neither the owner nor the watchlist members would know that the cache had been found unless they checked the cache page itself. Have I got this right? I tried a search on the WAP thread, but didn't hit on search terms that would track down the confirmation.

 

Does a WAP log generate emails to watchers?

 

*White lie: My intentions weren't exactly that, but close enough, and too much of an aside to be relevant to this topic.

 

I should add that the STF mused in his online log:

 

...When I finally got down off of the relatively dangerous portions after signing the book, I felt a real sense of accomplishment - as if I was better off for having done this hike. So I really am pleased that I went through with this, but I can't help but wonder: If by chance I had checked the website before hitting the road & saw there was no longer any chance of FTF, would I still have driven out there to challenge the mountain? I honestly don't know what the answer to that is.

 

Puts a different complexion on the delayed-FTF-log controversy...

Edited October 30, 2007 by Mule Ears

[+Seasoned Warrior]

A quick way to make sure that the guy who was aggressively grabbing FTFs and then laughing at everybody else about it would be to place caches with a FTF already recorded and then as soon as its published log the FTF, can't get no faster than that.

 

PS: I am just kidding, I really don't care, I really don't want to get into this depbate, I cache just to find places I've never been to before, frequently I don't log at all cause its just numbers and numbers by themselves are meaningless. Its cool just to be out in the field, I take nothing, leave nothing, and very very rarely sign a log, unless its a terribly cool hide/location.

[+Confucius' Cat]

...When I finally got down off of the relatively dangerous portions after signing the book, I felt a real sense of accomplishment - as if I was better off for having done this hike. So I really am pleased that I went through with this, but I can't help but wonder: If by chance I had checked the website before hitting the road & saw there was no longer any chance of FTF, would I still have driven out there to challenge the mountain? I honestly don't know what the answer to that is.

 

Puts a different complexion on the delayed-FTF-log controversy...

Thought the main topic has run its course IMO, this sub-topic is well worth hashing out.

 

it has been mentioned previously that if the only reason one would seek a cache is to be FTF, the quality of that cache is in question.

 

I think this is very true. There is something special about trying to be FTF and I personally will focus on that as a simple means of picking one of the thousands of caches to go after. In these cases, I actually consider nothing else except "can I likely physically do it based upon the cache description and "has anyone logged it yet."

 

To me an FTF transcends cache quality issues with rare exceptions. I will knowingly look for a lame LPC if I have a chance of FTF. After the FTF is logged, I will pass it by even if it shows up on my map. As soon as I determine that the GZ is in a store parking lot, i move on.

 

But I have many times had VERY rewarding caching experiences looking for what I ASSUMED would be lame micros. I had one Saturday.

 

If a cacher misses a good hunt because a cache does not meet ANY particular criterion that the cacher has set, the loss is his. This is true if he is only seeking an FTF as much as it is true if he only seeks 3 star caches or only ammo cans.

 

Good caches come in all sizes and all ratings and if a cache is good, it is good the first time it is found, the last time it is found, and every time in between.

 

I would give three nuggets of advice to people who want to try for FTFs so they will not be so easily disappointed:

 

1. If being second is going to bother you, don't seek to be first. No one ever leads without at some time following. No one ever succeeds without at some time failing. These are "laws of nature."

 

2. Seek the kind of caches you like, regardless of whether it has been found previously; that way you always win. You will eventually get FTFs and whenever you don't, you will never have "wasted your time."

 

3. Work at it. Put out a little extra effort to get out there and look right away. Be willing to go where the "numbers ho's" won't go. Keep trying. You'll get 'em.

 

My first FTF was my second cache. It was 2/3 of the way up a very steep incline in the dead of winter (no snow). It took three trips over three weekends and I had all my family searching with me. We got it WOOHOO! FTF!

 

To the OP: cache on! You will meet your goals in spite of all the jokers in the world if you are willing to grin and go on.

[me_chris]

Do we only hunt caches to be FTF? Or is there some worth in just finding it, regardless of whether or not you're the first to find it? You still got in a good hike right?

[+Confucius' Cat]

Do we only hunt caches to be FTF? Or is there some worth in just finding it, regardless of whether or not you're the first to find it? You still got in a good hike right?

Both, either, and neither.

 

Both: Most caches DO have SOME worth in addition to the FTF

Either: A FEW are worthless except for FTF. Most are not particularly special for FTF, so are worth equal or more in subsequent finds.

Neither: A VERY FEW are not worth the FTF OR subsequent finds. (or the bandwidth to download them for that matter)

 

All of the above is completely determined by the individual seeker and there is no "definition" beyond one's individual likes and dislikes.

 

Some DO hunt just for FTF. Oftentimes, I am one of them. Not getting the FTF when it is sought is disappointing. But I have never considered scoring the second or subsequent find to be a total waste of time; many times not worth logging, though.

 

Missing the FTF is certainly not worth getting upset over. I almost ALWAYS have fun and I DO always appreciate the chance to "get out."