Twisted Humor in Not Signing FTF in Cache Logs

[+gh patriot]

Does it keep the FTF going, or does it irk people to think someone would do this and simply keep them from going out after the hides until someone finds them?

 

Since some find this funny, a simple solution would be to hand out the coords before the publishing of the cache...everyone who I know would get the coords save the one person who would do this. THEN, when the cache is published, they could all wait until the FTF hound does go after it. A dose of the FTFr's own medicine!!

 

are you on drugs?

[+Rockin Roddy]

Well THAT'S just not nice! Also, it's beside the point.

 

Why?? Because I disagree with the rudeness of this practice?

 

Everybody knows the docs are cutting me back slowly.

[+gh patriot]

There are no rules depicting when you have to log your find on line or that you have to at all.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

There are no rules depicting when you have to log your find on line or that you have to at all.

 

There are no rules about logging a DNF on a cache that you tried to find and came up unsuccessful. It is, however a courtesy to the cache owner, and others thinking about searching for the cache to do so, especially if you have a reasonable belief that the cache has been muggled. There shouldn't have to be a rule about timely logging of caches, because it's the courteous thing to do.

[+Rockin Roddy]

We aren't talking rules GH, we're talking courtesy and being polite to others. I can understand that some would think this is funny (some like ripping wings off flies too), it's more of a rude thing IMHO.

 

No one said anything about breaking the rules.

[+Mudfrog]

We aren't talking rules GH, we're talking courtesy and being polite to others. I can understand that some would think this is funny (some like ripping wings off flies too), it's more of a rude thing IMHO.

 

No one said anything about breaking the rules.

It's a shame that some people can't figure this out and have to have rules to tell them what's right and what's wrong. Still not sure why some think this is funny or that they think it would help keep a ftf race going. I would bet you that people would wise up pretty quickly if this started in their area!

[+Rockin Roddy]

We aren't talking rules GH, we're talking courtesy and being polite to others. I can understand that some would think this is funny (some like ripping wings off flies too), it's more of a rude thing IMHO.

 

No one said anything about breaking the rules.

It's a shame that some people can't figure this out and have to have rules to tell them what's right and what's wrong. Still not sure why some think this is funny or that they think it would help keep a ftf race going. I would bet you that people would wise up pretty quickly if this started in their area!

 

EXACTLY!

[+briansnat]

There are no rules depicting when you have to log your find on line or that you have to at all.

 

As a FTF, knowing that others may be going out of their way in hopes of getting a FTF, it's the courteous thing to do.

 

I realize that courtesy is always optional, but at the very least he could have refrained from taunting the subsequent finders. I think that is where he stepped over the bounds of propriety.

[+Stargazer22]

There are no rules depicting when you have to log your find on line or that you have to at all.

 

As a FTF, knowing that others may be going out of their way in hopes of getting a FTF, it's the courteous thing to do.

 

I realize that courtesy is always optional, but at the very least he could have refrained from taunting the subsequent finders. I think that is where he stepped over the bounds of propriety.

 

I'm with Briansnat 100% on this one.

[+Kealia]

Haven't checked this thread in a few days and it now seems like more people are seeing things the other way (from the first few posters).

 

I agree that it's a matter of courtesy - simple as that.

[+Team GeoBlast]

Haven't checked this thread in a few days and it now seems like more people are seeing things the other way (from the first few posters).

 

I agree that it's a matter of courtesy - simple as that.

 

The entire game is built on courtesies. For example, imagine the Geocaching without trading up, hiding a cache the same way you found it or better, using stealth so the cache is not discovered by muggles, replacing a log book when it is full for an owner, logging a DNF to alert others and the owner of a potential problem... this list is endless.

 

I wish cachers would think about this when a courtesy is being debated as necessary or not.

[+TheManInStripes]

Does it keep the FTF going, or does it irk people to think someone would do this and simply keep them from going out after the hides until someone finds them?

 

Since some find this funny, a simple solution would be to hand out the coords before the publishing of the cache...everyone who I know would get the coords save the one person who would do this. THEN, when the cache is published, they could all wait until the FTF hound does go after it. A dose of the FTFr's own medicine!!

I think I'd have a nice surprise for all subsequent finders if someone tried to pull this off.

[+TheManInStripes]

Does it keep the FTF going, or does it irk people to think someone would do this and simply keep them from going out after the hides until someone finds them?

 

Since some find this funny, a simple solution would be to hand out the coords before the publishing of the cache...everyone who I know would get the coords save the one person who would do this. THEN, when the cache is published, they could all wait until the FTF hound does go after it. A dose of the FTFr's own medicine!!

As someone who employs this tactic, I would WELCOME someone doing this to me, and quite frankly, would just laugh it off and wait for the next new cache. Then, I'd see what else I could come up with to liven things up a bit.

 

I guess that's just the goofiness in me. MAybe I'd try what the prankster thread suggested.

 

I do hope you stay put there in Alaska...already conversed on what my feelings toward your sense of humor is in an earlier topic.

If I'm ever forced to come to Michigan against my will, I'll make sure and let you know I'm there. Or maybe, I'll just make my presence known some other way.

[+TheManInStripes]

I just want to get one FTF. After that, I don't care what place I come in.

That's a valid way to feel. After all, if you ain't first, you're last!!!

[+TheManInStripes]

In my book, it ranks right up there with stealing stop signs, kicking cats, and tripping little old ladies with strollers.

It's a sign of mental illness: deliberately inflicting pain on others.

Very sad.

 

Stealing stop signs is too much effort, and tripping old ladies with strollers is downright mean. But kicking cats -- I wouldn't even think twice about doing that!!!

 

You are too darn sensitive about this stuff Hairy.

[+gh patriot]

It's a shame that some people can't figure this out and have to have rules to tell them what's right and what's wrong. Still not sure why some think this is funny or that they think it would help keep a ftf race going. I would bet you that people would wise up pretty quickly if this started in their area!

 

It does happen in my area. No complaints from anyone here. Just the OP.

[+gh patriot]

There are no rules depicting when you have to log your find on line or that you have to at all.

 

There are no rules about logging a DNF on a cache that you tried to find and came up unsuccessful. It is, however a courtesy to the cache owner, and others thinking about searching for the cache to do so, especially if you have a reasonable belief that the cache has been muggled. There shouldn't have to be a rule about timely logging of caches, because it's the courteous thing to do.

 

I log all DNF's. Sometimes I don't log finds for a couple of days though. Is a day or two timely enough or do I need to buy an i-phone so I can log the FTF while im at the cache site??? In my area (Grand Rapids, MI) a cache is starting to get old if its been published for an hour with no name in the log book yet. And yes some of the people who regularly go for FTF's around here dont log their finds immeadiatly.

 

Besides, is the only reason to find a cache to be FTF??? I think that if a cache is worth finding at all, it shouldn't matter if your STF or 17th to find.

 

 

P.S. STF is the first looser

Edited October 27, 2007 by gh patriot

[+TheManInStripes]

 

Besides, is the only reason to find a cache to be FTF??? I think that if a cache is worth finding at all, it shouldn't matter if your STF or 17th to find.

 

Aren't STF and 17th to find the same thing?

[+Rockin Roddy]

If it has to be explained to you guys, you'll probably never get it!

[+Rockin Roddy]

No one said anything about immediately....in a timely fashion would be a courtesy though! I went on vacation and didn't log my finds (none were FTFs though) for the two weeks I was gone...but the next finders aren't waiting for me to log my FTF either.

 

There's a topic going in the MiGO forums which talks about this. Some actually get upset if the STF (or TTF etc) log the find before the FTF does...go figure!

[+Confucius' Cat]

No one said anything about immediately....in a timely fashion would be a courtesy though! I went on vacation and didn't log my finds (none were FTFs though) for the two weeks I was gone...but the next finders aren't waiting for me to log my FTF either.

 

There's a topic going in the MiGO forums which talks about this. Some actually get upset if the STF (or TTF etc) log the find before the FTF does...go figure!

So, if it had happened that you had gotten to one first, your actions would have been SEVERELY discourteous, right?

 

Making a statement about "timeliness" is useless unless "timeliness" is defined. Since the only timeliness that is going to solve this complaint in most cases would be an INSTANT log when the FTF ismade, I think YOU should buy us all I-phones so we can log our FTFs in a "timely" manner at the INSTANT we sign the log book.

 

Since, as has been stated previously, very few caches go more than HOURS without a FTF, timely could have no other definition than "within minutes." Otherwise, some poor soul is going to go out after the FTF after it has already been logged.

 

This is an everyday occurrence, happens more often than not in heavy caching areas, and the OP and others who whine about going after an FTF which has already been logged offline need to understand basic physics, common sense, and that it is JUST A GAME.

 

Logging on line as soon as practical is indeed a courtesy to others. But anyone who uses common sense will realise that the lack of an online log does not mean the cache has not been visited.

 

I have even missed the FTF (and did not "count" it as FTF) because a muggle had signed the log. This after a 50 mile drive. WAH!

 

You don't always get the FTF. If one doesn't understand that, THEY should have the COURTESY not to play the FTF game- or at least not to whine about it.

[+Kit Fox]

 

Making a statement about "timeliness" is useless unless "timeliness" is defined. Since the only timeliness that is going to solve this complaint in most cases would be an INSTANT log when the FTF ismade, I think YOU should buy us all I-phones so we can log our FTFs in a "timely" manner at the INSTANT we sign the log book.

 

Since, as has been stated previously, very few caches go more than HOURS without a FTF, timely could have no other definition than "within minutes." Otherwise, some poor soul is going to go out after the FTF after it has already been logged.

 

This is an everyday occurrence, happens more often than not in heavy caching areas, and the OP and others who whine about going after an FTF which has already been logged offline need to understand basic physics, common sense, and that it is JUST A GAME.

Logging on line as soon as practical is indeed a courtesy to others. But anyone who uses common sense will realise that the lack of an online log does not mean the cache has not been visited.

 

I have even missed the FTF (and did not "count" it as FTF) because a muggle had signed the log. This after a 50 mile drive. WAH!

 

You don't always get the FTF. If one doesn't understand that, THEY should have the COURTESY not to play the FTF game- or at least not to whine about it.

 

Isn't it amazing how competition has steered this game to a position where people get angry, because someone didn't log their FTF instantly? Talk about selfish cachers.

 

Suppose you start caching at 4:00 am, and you bag two FTFs, but your on a 24 hour caching marathon, it will be at least 30 hours before you can log your finds. The selfish cachers will "piss and moan" that FTF was a jerk because he didn't log his FTF instantly. The selfish cachers will cry that they wasted their time hunting for an "already found" cache.

 

How pathetic is that?

[+Rockin Roddy]

No one said anything about immediately....in a timely fashion would be a courtesy though! I went on vacation and didn't log my finds (none were FTFs though) for the two weeks I was gone...but the next finders aren't waiting for me to log my FTF either.

 

There's a topic going in the MiGO forums which talks about this. Some actually get upset if the STF (or TTF etc) log the find before the FTF does...go figure!

So, if it had happened that you had gotten to one first, your actions would have been SEVERELY discourteous, right?

Making a statement about "timeliness" is useless unless "timeliness" is defined. Since the only timeliness that is going to solve this complaint in most cases would be an INSTANT log when the FTF ismade, I think YOU should buy us all I-phones so we can log our FTFs in a "timely" manner at the INSTANT we sign the log book.

 

Since, as has been stated previously, very few caches go more than HOURS without a FTF, timely could have no other definition than "within minutes." Otherwise, some poor soul is going to go out after the FTF after it has already been logged.

 

This is an everyday occurrence, happens more often than not in heavy caching areas, and the OP and others who whine about going after an FTF which has already been logged offline need to understand basic physics, common sense, and that it is JUST A GAME.

 

Logging on line as soon as practical is indeed a courtesy to others. But anyone who uses common sense will realise that the lack of an online log does not mean the cache has not been visited.

 

I have even missed the FTF (and did not "count" it as FTF) because a muggle had signed the log. This after a 50 mile drive. WAH!

 

You don't always get the FTF. If one doesn't understand that, THEY should have the COURTESY not to play the FTF game- or at least not to whine about it.

 

No, CC...I would have made the effort to call someone back home so they could log my find in a timely manner...but that's just because I'm CONSIDERATE of others...sorry!

 

You know CC, sometimes you have great posts and sometimes you just don't get it. Buy your own iphone.

 

Since we aren't talking about those who wait until they get home to log the find, I guess your comments are off the mark! We're talking about those who intentionally wait to log their finds until someone else does. I thought that was pretty clear...guess not! Waiting a week or more to log a find just to keep the FTF hunt going is silly at best!

 

I'm not an FTF nut (might have missed my saying that a few times too??), but IF the cache does go unfound for a day or so, I MIGHT be drawn into going after it. If the cache were found and hadn't been logged online for that week, no problem...unless this is what the NORM is for the person doing this! Then it's just discourteous and something many here (obviously) would frown upon.

 

Ummm Kit...again, we're not talking about a cache that someone might have found and hadn't had the chance to log. One day or so might be fine in certain situations. It's when someone purposely waits a week or more because THEY feel they aren't getting all the fun of their find and wants to wait until others log...talk about selfish!! Also, you might have missed (as did CC apparently...a few times now) that I'm not an FTF hound nor do I go out of my way for any, so I guess it's NOT the competition is it??

 

But again...if it has to be explained to you, you'll probably never get it!

 

REALIZE...thanks!

Edited October 27, 2007 by Rockin Roddy

[+Rockin Roddy]

 

Making a statement about "timeliness" is useless unless "timeliness" is defined. Since the only timeliness that is going to solve this complaint in most cases would be an INSTANT log when the FTF ismade, I think YOU should buy us all I-phones so we can log our FTFs in a "timely" manner at the INSTANT we sign the log book.

 

Since, as has been stated previously, very few caches go more than HOURS without a FTF, timely could have no other definition than "within minutes." Otherwise, some poor soul is going to go out after the FTF after it has already been logged.

 

This is an everyday occurrence, happens more often than not in heavy caching areas, and the OP and others who whine about going after an FTF which has already been logged offline need to understand basic physics, common sense, and that it is JUST A GAME.

Logging on line as soon as practical is indeed a courtesy to others. But anyone who uses common sense will realise that the lack of an online log does not mean the cache has not been visited.

 

I have even missed the FTF (and did not "count" it as FTF) because a muggle had signed the log. This after a 50 mile drive. WAH!

 

You don't always get the FTF. If one doesn't understand that, THEY should have the COURTESY not to play the FTF game- or at least not to whine about it.

 

Isn't it amazing how competition has steered this game to a position where people get angry, because someone didn't log their FTF instantly? Talk about selfish cachers.

 

Suppose you start caching at 4:00 am, and you bag two FTFs, but your on a 24 hour caching marathon, it will be at least 30 hours before you can log your finds. The selfish cachers will "piss and moan" that FTF was a jerk because he didn't log his FTF instantly. The selfish cachers will cry that they wasted their time hunting for an "already found" cache.

 

How pathetic is that?

 

The selfish cacher is the one who finds the cache, signs the log and then goes home and sits around with some childish grin on their face waiting for the next cacher to make the find and log online. THEN the SELFISH cacher gets to go online and TAUNT the STF and any subsequent finders with their childish "I fooled you" attitude. Yep, that's how we should play this game!! Childish, rude and silly...must make the person doing this just warm and fuzzy all over!

[+Cache Heads]

I say to each his own. Logging a find online, while considerate, isn't a rule as far as I can tell. If you want to go for a cache, go for it. If not, don't. If you want to play the FTF game and you get to the cache and realize the log has already been signed then guess what? You lost.

[+Kit Fox]

 

The selfish cacher is the one who finds the cache, signs the log and then goes home and sits around with some childish grin on their face waiting for the next cacher to make the find and log online. THEN the SELFISH cacher gets to go online and TAUNT the STF and any subsequent finders with their childish "I fooled you" attitude. Yep, that's how we should play this game!! Childish, rude and silly...must make the person doing this just warm and fuzzy all over!

 

I've never seen a log where cacher purposely made fun of others, in their logs, gloating about how they tricked others. Can you link some examples of this behavior?

 

A friend of mine and I used to have a healthy FTF race, and we used to taunt each other in our online logs. I would mention something like, "I did a BTC (Beat the Coyote Dance) after logging FTF. He would mention that he did a "BTF (Beat the Fox) dance. The key was that it was all in great fun.

Edited October 27, 2007 by Kit Fox

[+Confucius' Cat]

I'm not an FTF nut (might have missed my saying that a few times too??), <snip> Also, you might have missed (as did CC apparently...a few times now) that I'm not an FTF hound nor do I go out of my way for any, so I guess it's NOT the competition is it??

 

But again...if it has to be explained to you, you'll probably never get it!

 

REALIZE...thanks!

So, if you don't have a dog in this fight why do you keep placing bets on it?

[+Confucius' Cat]

WAH WAH WAH!

 

i just got back from an 160 mile round trip drive going after two FTFs.

 

I got sloppy seconds on one and third on the other!

 

WAH WAH WAH! Woe is me!

 

Some totally discourteous *********** didn't log the FTF before I left this morning! And he had found it at EIGHT O'CLOCK! Fully TWO HOURS before I set out on my 160 mile quest!

 

THE FTF STILL HAS NOT LOGGED ON THE FIRST ONE!

 

OH WOE IS ME!

 

</sarcasm>

 

Oh, Did I mention?

Absolutely GREAT day outside. Cool damp air with a light misty rain. The second cache was at a really cool wetland preserve with a fantastic boardwalk and elevated walkway system that made for easy walking for the Wifemate and Narg. We saw three deers and a woodpecker, heard multiple geese, had a nice 2 mile walk and took some pictures. (All of which were not directly involved in the micro cache hunts themselves but they took me to the area)

Edited October 28, 2007 by Confucius' Cat

[+Too Tall John]

Since some find this funny, a simple solution would be to hand out the coords before the publishing of the cache...everyone who I know would get the coords save the one person who would do this. THEN, when the cache is published, they could all wait until the FTF hound does go after it. A dose of the FTFr's own medicine!!

I think I'd have a nice surprise for all subsequent finders if someone tried to pull this off.

So, it's all fun and games as long as you're the one doing the tricking, but if someone "pulls off" a trick on you...

Besides, is the only reason to find a cache to be FTF??? I think that if a cache is worth finding at all, it shouldn't matter if your STF or 17th to find.

 

P.S. STF is the first looser

Are you trying to contradict yourself? How can you be a looser at all if the cache is worth finding, FTF or not?

I've never seen a log where cacher purposely made fun of others, in their logs, gloating about how they tricked others. Can you link some examples of this behavior?

No cache logs from me, but here's the original question, followed by TMIS's and GHP's responses. Also, see the above quotes for more. "STF is the first looser"?!?

Has anyone else gone to a cache thinking you were the first (because the website cache log hadn't yet been signed and the cache was placed months earlier) only to find the geocache logbook already signed?

Yes. People who find caches after I am FTF have this happen...

Ive done that a bunch of times and will do it again. I think its kinda funny...

[+Too Tall John]

WAH WAH WAH! Woe is me!

 

Some totally discourteous *********** didn't log the FTF before I left this morning! And he had found it at EIGHT O'CLOCK! Fully TWO HOURS before I set out on my 160 mile quest!

 

THE FTF STILL HAS NOT LOGGED ON THE FIRST ONE!

 

OH WOE IS ME!

The type of situation you are presenting isn't what the OP was talking about.

 

 

 

At all.

 

 

 

Not one bit.

[Swamp-Thing]

We aren't talking rules GH, we're talking courtesy and being polite to others. I can understand that some would think this is funny (some like ripping wings off flies too), it's more of a rude thing IMHO.

 

No one said anything about breaking the rules.

 

I'll tell you whats rude!!

 

Its when you take the time to find a unique location. do the research into when and why something was built out in the sticks. Find a great and interesting spot to hide your ammocan. Take thew time to try to make a good cache page ( I am not fast at writing good html}.

 

Then as you are about to publish it and someone else has just walked to within 200 feet of your spot and dropped a small container with nothing but a logbook ( the cache container was a small waterproof first aide box) and made a plain jane cache page ( I forgive him for that, it was his first hide and most of make the same kind).

 

I was FTF and didn't log online. I just signed my name and date and time on the next to last cache page. I was dissapointed at his location and that the box was empty and the fact that I put so much effort into it and someone beat me with what i consider a lame hide at a great location. I just pulled my box and went home. I have never logged it online.

[+Rockin Roddy]

WAH WAH WAH!

 

i just got back from an 160 mile round trip drive going after two FTFs.

 

I got sloppy seconds on one and third on the other!

 

WAH WAH WAH! Woe is me!

 

Some totally discourteous *********** didn't log the FTF before I left this morning! And he had found it at EIGHT O'CLOCK! Fully TWO HOURS before I set out on my 160 mile quest!

 

THE FTF STILL HAS NOT LOGGED ON THE FIRST ONE!

 

OH WOE IS ME!

 

</sarcasm>

 

Oh, Did I mention?

Absolutely GREAT day outside. Cool damp air with a light misty rain. The second cache was at a really cool wetland preserve with a fantastic boardwalk and elevated walkway system that made for easy walking for the Wifemate and Narg. We saw three deers and a woodpecker, heard multiple geese, had a nice 2 mile walk and took some pictures. (All of which were not directly involved in the micro cache hunts themselves but they took me to the area)

 

I've had the unfortunate honor of knowing a "friend" who just couldn't argue his point without being childish. Every time we got into a heated debate, he'd act all rude and childish as if his point was the only point and anyone who had another, he thought they were just off! Really takes the fun out of the debate!! We've all run across this type before, right? I think an arguemnet is childish when the person uses extreme sarcasm to make a point (and throws in some childish sobs and such) so as to antagonize the others who don't agree with him/her. A childish arguement is when the person has nothing meaningful to say, can't come up with a reasonable comment, so just acts childish so as to be obnoxious. I'm sure you've seen this type of action before in your postings on the forums...haven't you? Sure makes the debate go downhill fast, doesn't it?

 

Again, if you need it explained, you'll never get it.

 

Swamp Thing...you got mad because someone beat you to a spot and placed a cache so you could enjoy it? Truly? You got mad at someone attempting to give back to the caching community? I understand your disappointment in not being able to place the hide...but you couldn't move it and place one to show the other cacher what a cache should look like?

[+Rockin Roddy]

Hypothetical here:

 

I've placed several hides, love to place them so as to read of everyone's enjoyment (really adds to MY enjoyment)! The last 10 or so, a single cacher would run out, find the cache and sign the logbook first! This person comes from a distance and isn't very well known by the local cachers.

 

To make it worse, this person would wait until an unsuspecting cacher logged their find online, and then make a comment about being too slow or "ha, you really thought you'd be first" when logging his FTF (you see, this person would usually hide his signature in the middle or back of the logbook just so he could tease the others thinking they were FTF).

 

After several times of this happening, the local cachers (who figured this guy would sneak in in the middle of the night ...even if there were hours posted) started getting miffed! So miffed, they decided the best course of action was to not go after the caches until someone else logged the finds online..."we'll show that arse". They even write me and let me know this is going to happen!

 

Now, I'm stuck! I place the hides to enjoy the logs, no one is logging because the "sandbagger" has taken all the fun out of finding the cache (first last whatever) and they don't want to be belittled, and the "sandbagger" is just sooo happy to carry on as he has...only now ALL FTFs are his easily w/o having to get up early and WORK for the FTF! Who is the one getting the short end of the stick here?

 

Well, the cachers of course! Soon, I'll stop placing caches since my fun has been curtailed. I mean, why even bother if no one is going to log online or even find the cache until someone else does (and if none of the locals will, you might be waiting awhile for an out of towner to come find it).

 

So, all of caching is affected by the childish nature of ONE cacher? You mean "I" do have a dog in this race after all? WOW!!

 

Some say that we who argue against one person's idea of fun are trying to dictate what fun this person can have. Actually, we are trying to make it so ALL can have the fun they are after. Some say let the guy have his fun...why? At the expense of everyone else's fun? Now...who's being selfish?

Edited October 28, 2007 by Rockin Roddy

[+Kit Fox]

Hypothetical here:

 

I've placed several hides, love to place them so as to read of everyone's enjoyment (really adds to MY enjoyment)! The last 10 or so, a single cacher would run out, find the cache and sign the logbook first! This person comes from a distance and isn't very well known by the local cachers.

 

To make it worse, this person would wait until an unsuspecting cacher logged their find online, and then make a comment about being too slow or "ha, you really thought you'd be first" when logging his FTF (you see, this person would usually hide his signature in the middle or back of the logbook just so he could tease the others thinking they were FTF).

 

Can you provide evidence of this ever happening, or is this thread all based on "hypotheticals?"

 

After several times of this happening, the local cachers (who figured this guy would sneak in in the middle of the night ...even if there were hours posted) started getting miffed! So miffed, they decided the best course of action was to not go after the caches until someone else logged the finds online..."we'll show that arse". They even write me and let me know this is going to happen!

 

Now, I'm stuck! I place the hides to enjoy the logs, no one is logging because the "sandbagger" has taken all the fun out of finding the cache (first last whatever) and they don't want to be belittled, and the "sandbagger" is just sooo happy to carry on as he has...only now ALL FTFs are his easily w/o having to get up early and WORK for the FTF! Who is the one getting the short end of the stick here?

 

Again provide proof if this happening.

 

No offense intended, but if cachers will only find your cache, if there is a chance at getting FTF, then maybe there is a quality problem with your caches.

 

Well, the cachers of course! Soon, I'll stop placing caches since my fun has been curtailed. I mean, why even bother if no one is going to log online or even find the cache until someone else does (and if none of the locals will, you might be waiting awhile for an out of towner to come find it).

 

I appears to me that you are fixated by the "supposed rush to be FTF" on your caches. Is this really how you derive pleasure in this game? or is this another "hypothetical scenario?"

 

 

So, all of caching is affected by the childish nature of ONE cacher? You mean "I" do have a dog in this race after all? WOW!!

 

Some say that we who argue against one person's idea of fun are trying to dictate what fun this person can have. Actually, we are trying to make it so ALL can have the fun they are after. Some say let the guy have his fun...why? At the expense of everyone else's fun? Now...who's being selfish?

 

I thought the object of geocaching was to use your GPS to find caches, not to dwell on "hypothetical situations." Did you read the past thread about the "tool" that was always FTF, because the cache hider would give him the coords before the cache was published?

Edited October 28, 2007 by Kit Fox

[+Rockin Roddy]

Kit...truly, have you read the WHOLE topic thread? You seem lost, maybe you should go back and start reading from the beginning!

 

I have no need to PROVE to you this has or will happen, the fact that it might is enough to say this is a silly practice that could have ramifications on cachers who AREN'T FTF hounds. Prove to ME this HASN'T ever happened! Seems we have a poster complaining that someone didn't log their find in a timely manner (as I recall, it was much longer than a day or so), so I'd have to say this practice DOES bother some...prove to me it doesn't and I'll stop posting right now!

 

Did you read the past thread about the "tool" that was always FTF, because the cache hider would give him the coords before the cache was published?

 

Now, you bring in a totally different topic to try to prove your point? That has nothing to do with this debate, sorry!

 

And no, I derive MY pleasure from reading the posts of those who have the pleasure of finding a cache. If someone playing their silly game causes others to stop logging until there is a "first to log", the logs will not come in, the cache is meaningless and I'm being used as a pawn in someone's "powertrip"!

[+Kit Fox]

Kit...truly, have you read the WHOLE topic thread? You seem lost, maybe you should go back and start reading from the beginning!

 

I have no need to PROVE to you this has or will happen, the fact that it might is enough to say this is a silly practice that could have ramifications on cachers who AREN'T FTF hounds. Prove to ME this HASN'T ever happened! Seems we have a poster complaining that someone didn't log their find in a timely manner (as I recall, it was much longer than a day or so), so I'd have to say this practice DOES bother some...prove to me it doesn't and I'll stop posting right now!

 

Taking our discussion to PM.

Edited October 28, 2007 by Kit Fox

[+Rockin Roddy]

Nothing to see here. Please move along!

Edited October 28, 2007 by Rockin Roddy

[Decoski]

Kit...truly, have you read the WHOLE topic thread? You seem lost, maybe you should go back and start reading from the beginning!

 

I have no need to PROVE to you this has or will happen, the fact that it might is enough to say this is a silly practice that could have ramifications on cachers who AREN'T FTF hounds. Prove to ME this HASN'T ever happened! Seems we have a poster complaining that someone didn't log their find in a timely manner (as I recall, it was much longer than a day or so), so I'd have to say this practice DOES bother some...prove to me it doesn't and I'll stop posting right now!

 

Taking our discussion to PM.

Oh this wasn't an imaginary scenario. My OP was absolutely true. I can only infer what the FTF's intentions were. I base this upon the JOKER card being placed on the SECOND page of the log. Wouldn't that be your first impression that the FTF was, in a sense, saying, "Ha,ha,ha! I got the FTF and didn't log it online so you would come all the way up this cliff thinking that you would get it!"? Don't get me wrong, I'm no FTF nut. I'm new at this and have yet to even get one, but when it still wasn't logged online for over a YEAR, I thought this was a good chance of getting it; also due to the remote location of the cache.

[+Mudfrog]

 

Making a statement about "timeliness" is useless unless "timeliness" is defined. Since the only timeliness that is going to solve this complaint in most cases would be an INSTANT log when the FTF ismade, I think YOU should buy us all I-phones so we can log our FTFs in a "timely" manner at the INSTANT we sign the log book.

 

Since, as has been stated previously, very few caches go more than HOURS without a FTF, timely could have no other definition than "within minutes." Otherwise, some poor soul is going to go out after the FTF after it has already been logged.

 

This is an everyday occurrence, happens more often than not in heavy caching areas, and the OP and others who whine about going after an FTF which has already been logged offline need to understand basic physics, common sense, and that it is JUST A GAME.

Logging on line as soon as practical is indeed a courtesy to others. But anyone who uses common sense will realise that the lack of an online log does not mean the cache has not been visited.

 

I have even missed the FTF (and did not "count" it as FTF) because a muggle had signed the log. This after a 50 mile drive. WAH!

 

You don't always get the FTF. If one doesn't understand that, THEY should have the COURTESY not to play the FTF game- or at least not to whine about it.

 

Isn't it amazing how competition has steered this game to a position where people get angry, because someone didn't log their FTF instantly? Talk about selfish cachers.

 

Suppose you start caching at 4:00 am, and you bag two FTFs, but your on a 24 hour caching marathon, it will be at least 30 hours before you can log your finds. The selfish cachers will "piss and moan" that FTF was a jerk because he didn't log his FTF instantly. The selfish cachers will cry that they wasted their time hunting for an "already found" cache.

 

How pathetic is that?

 

The selfish cacher is the one who finds the cache, signs the log and then goes home and sits around with some childish grin on their face waiting for the next cacher to make the find and log online. THEN the SELFISH cacher gets to go online and TAUNT the STF and any subsequent finders with their childish "I fooled you" attitude. Yep, that's how we should play this game!! Childish, rude and silly...must make the person doing this just warm and fuzzy all over!

Uh huh! We're not talking about things beyond our control like being on vacation, not having an easy way to log, getting home late and waiting until the next day to log, or maybe even forgetting to log. We're talking about goofballs who purposely do this only to stir things up. There is no doubt at all that the only person they are thinking about is themselves!

 

Kit Fox, I have no idea where the entitlement arguement comes in on this topic. I suppose their are a few out there who think they deserve it but for the most part, it just simply doesn't exist here. Those who like going for FTFs already know that they are not guranteed and that they are taking their chances when going after one. They certainly don't get all bent out of shape when they miss it. It's when someone purposely screws with them that they might get their feathers ruffled...

[+Renegade Knight]

.... Has anyone else gone to a cache thinking you were the first (because the website cache log hadn't yet been signed and the cache was placed months earlier) only to find the geocache logbook already signed?

 

I can't say I've done that because I don't track my FTF's. However I can say that at least 40% or more of the cache logs are folks that don't do an online log.

 

It's fair.

 

If someone does sign online and baits you by not signing online...that may or may not be funny depending on a lot of things that happen in your area and the personalities of everone involved.

[4wheelin_fool]

 

i just got back from an 160 mile round trip drive going after two FTFs.

 

I got sloppy seconds on one and third on the other!

 

WAH WAH WAH! Woe is me!

 

Some totally discourteous *********** didn't log the FTF before I left this morning! And he had found it at EIGHT O'CLOCK! Fully TWO HOURS before I set out on my 160 mile quest!

 

 

Sheesh, thats your own fault. You should have filed an online FTF the night before you intended to look for it. That way your FTF would have been reserved.

[+Confucius' Cat]

I can only infer what the FTF's intentions were.

Kinda puts it to bed in my opinion.

 

We see what we want to see.

 

Perhaps we could practice seeing the good in people and giveing them the benefit of the doubt.

[+Too Tall John]

I can only infer what the FTF's intentions were.

Kinda puts it to bed in my opinion.

 

We see what we want to see.

 

Perhaps we could practice seeing the good in people and giveing them the benefit of the doubt.

There are 2 posters to this thread who have said they follow the practices in question. One admits to thinking it is funny, the other has basically said anyone who retaliates to his actions will be sorry. I'm all for giving people the benefit of the doubt, but is there any doubt?

 

Regardless, it's a foolish thing to do, not a great way to gain friends, for sure. Would I care if it happened to me? It wouldn't change the experience I had, but it would change my opinion of that cacher.

[+Too Tall John]

Oh this wasn't an imaginary scenario. My OP was absolutely true. I can only infer what the FTF's intentions were. I base this upon the JOKER card being placed on the SECOND page of the log. Wouldn't that be your first impression that the FTF was, in a sense, saying, "Ha,ha,ha! I got the FTF and didn't log it online so you would come all the way up this cliff thinking that you would get it!"? Don't get me wrong, I'm no FTF nut. I'm new at this and have yet to even get one, but when it still wasn't logged online for over a YEAR, I thought this was a good chance of getting it; also due to the remote location of the cache.

Could you post us a link to the cache in question?

 

Edited to add:

 

Oops, found it. As they still haven't logged it, it is hard to say what their reasons are. Some people just don't log. The signing on the second page means one of 2 things to me:

• What you suggest has happened.
  
• They were beta cachers, checking the hide for the owner. People usually sign saying so in such a case, though.
  

Whether this is an example of this type of behavior or not, it happens. Bleagh...

Edited October 28, 2007 by Too Tall John

[+Kit Fox]

Oh this wasn't an imaginary scenario. My OP was absolutely true. I can only infer what the FTF's intentions were. I base this upon the JOKER card being placed on the SECOND page of the log. Wouldn't that be your first impression that the FTF was, in a sense, saying, "Ha,ha,ha! I got the FTF and didn't log it online so you would come all the way up this cliff thinking that you would get it!"? Don't get me wrong, I'm no FTF nut. I'm new at this and have yet to even get one, but when it still wasn't logged online for over a YEAR, I thought this was a good chance of getting it; also due to the remote location of the cache.

Could you post us a link to the cache in question?

 

Edited to add:

 

Oops, found it. As they still haven't logged it, it is hard to say what their reasons are. Some people just don't log. The signing on the second page means one of 2 things to me:

• What you suggest has happened.
  
• They were beta cachers, checking the hide for the owner. People usually sign saying so in such a case, though.
  

Whether this is an example of this type of behavior or not, it happens. Bleagh...

 

Looking at the topo maps of this cache, and the scenic view (photographed by OP), my vote is a non geocacher found the cache and signed the log. Many caches on top of peaks, rock piles, etc are found by non cachers who like to be "on top of the mountain." I doubt their was a sinister plan to fool potential cachers.

[+hukilaulau]

Hey! I want in on the fun! In another thread MIS revealed a lot when he admitted that his local group already shuns him. When I pointed that out he called me a name and the thread was subsequently closed, I'm thinking he's really a 13 year old kid who hasn't done half the stuff he brags about.

Oh, wait, i actually had a point here... It's two different games! I go to find a cache cuz I like finding caches. I don't even mention if I'm FTF. I just log it online as soon as I get home. As many have pointed out, I do it partly because I like to look at my own records, and partly because I LIKE to show courtesy to my fellow cachers. people like MIS would be unhappy in my area because no one would really care about not logging FTF's. There are some who enjoy the competition, but most of the cachers here are in the game because they like finding caches and enjoy the companionship of the other local cachers...

[+Confucius' Cat]

I can only infer what the FTF's intentions were.

Kinda puts it to bed in my opinion.

 

We see what we want to see.

 

Perhaps we could practice seeing the good in people and giveing them the benefit of the doubt.

There are 2 posters to this thread who have said they follow the practices in question. One admits to thinking it is funny, the other has basically said anyone who retaliates to his actions will be sorry. I'm all for giving people the benefit of the doubt, but is there any doubt?

 

Regardless, it's a foolish thing to do, not a great way to gain friends, for sure. Would I care if it happened to me? It wouldn't change the experience I had, but it would change my opinion of that cacher.

Yes, there is TOTAL doubt.

 

I was responding to the OP only.

 

That there are people who WILL (and have) deliberately pull(ed) a joke on others is not in question. A person who has a joke pulled on him has a lot of choices... they can laugh with the joker, get mad at the joker, plot revenge against the joker, whatever. In a joking manner, when no one gets hurt, no harm - no foul, no matter which decision is made.

 

In the case of the OP however, there has nothing factual been presented that would indicate that the incident is anything more than someone, for some reason, did not log the cache online.

 

The lack of the online log could have been caused by any number of reasons ranging from the cacher's dead body lying for over a year at the bottom of a cliff and the jackals ate the remains, through the cacher quit caching, broke his computer, internet service was turned off, didn't want his wife to know he was out caching that day ( I kinda tend toward that one myself). didn't think it was important or would matter to anybody, was a muggle... well you get the picture.

 

In this case, with no evidence to the contrary, lacking the obvious note saying, "HA HA I fooled YOU," while it might not be a HUGE jump to the conclusion that the FTF was playing a joke on the guy that he likely KNEW was going to come along a year later and think he would be FTF, it IS nonetheless a JUMP to a non-fact-supported conclusion.

 

IMHO, when you do not have any evidence of "wrong-doing" you should give the benefit of the doubt that the alleged "wrong-doer" did nothing (intentionally) wrong.

 

That is what I mean by "put it to bed."

 

in the OP's own words:

It was still worth the trip up here just to find the cache and enjoy my lunch while admiring the awesome view.

 

OP had fun. Harbouring ill feelings hurts no one but the harbourer.

 

Time to let it go, IMO.

 

OBTW Rocky:

For someone who is constantly reminding us that FTF doesn't matter to you, you are sure taking this thread AWFULLY personally. Chill, dude. It's gonna be OK.

[+Confucius' Cat]

 

i just got back from an 160 mile round trip drive going after two FTFs.

 

I got sloppy seconds on one and third on the other!

 

WAH WAH WAH! Woe is me!

 

Some totally discourteous *********** didn't log the FTF before I left this morning! And he had found it at EIGHT O'CLOCK! Fully TWO HOURS before I set out on my 160 mile quest!

 

 

Sheesh, thats your own fault. You should have filed an online FTF the night before you intended to look for it. That way your FTF would have been reserved.

<sarcasm>

I love it!

 

Guaranteed FTF and you don't even have to leave your keyboard!

</sarcasm>

(Wouldn't have worked in my case though, cause I don't do the PQ until i am ready to leave for the caches.)

 

Sometimes it is very interesting to "turn around" an argument. Sometimes we can gain a lot of insight from the method, like when Dave Ramsey asks, "if you had a paid for house would you borrow against it to play the stock market?"

 

So, what if someone DID log a false FTF as soon as the cache was published (or perhaps before?) just so others who would seek it for no other reason than the FTF "race" would not bother? Based on other FTF threads, I would bet (figuratively speaking) that there are some who would consider that a "fair" practice. (We have ALL kinds in the sport.)

 

I'd even go so far as to bet (figuratively speaking) that it has been done and is perhaps a commonly used method by a few FTF hounds.

 

It would be hard to catch, too. All the offender would have to do is log the find without the text "FTF" in the log, then go immediately and find the cache. Then if they were not first, they simply sign second (or seventeenth or whatever) and if anybody asks, they just got their online log in first. Proof COULD be had, but most of the time would probably be deemed not worth the effort.

 

It would definitely keep ME from going after it as FTF because it would eliminate it from my PQ.

 

With all the threads about how to make FTF "FAIR" (meaning handicap thecachers who are good at it and willing to put forth the extra effort), I am surprised someone has not brought this up as a method of keeping the "regulars" off of a new cache. I.E. I'd be surprised if this isn't being done by cache OWNERS.

 

It IS one plausible explanation of the many caches that have finds logged on them BEFORE publication. (This is not much more of a stretch than assuming a non-existent online log means the log book signer is playing a joke.)

 

*zicccka, ziccka, ziccka...* (sound of a new can of worms opening)

[Swamp-Thing]

WAH WAH WAH!

 

i just got back from an 160 mile round trip drive going after two FTFs.

 

I got sloppy seconds on one and third on the other!

 

WAH WAH WAH! Woe is me!

 

Some totally discourteous *********** didn't log the FTF before I left this morning! And he had found it at EIGHT O'CLOCK! Fully TWO HOURS before I set out on my 160 mile quest!

 

THE FTF STILL HAS NOT LOGGED ON THE FIRST ONE!

 

OH WOE IS ME!

 

</sarcasm>

 

Oh, Did I mention?

Absolutely GREAT day outside. Cool damp air with a light misty rain. The second cache was at a really cool wetland preserve with a fantastic boardwalk and elevated walkway system that made for easy walking for the Wifemate and Narg. We saw three deers and a woodpecker, heard multiple geese, had a nice 2 mile walk and took some pictures. (All of which were not directly involved in the micro cache hunts themselves but they took me to the area)

 

I've had the unfortunate honor of knowing a "friend" who just couldn't argue his point without being childish. Every time we got into a heated debate, he'd act all rude and childish as if his point was the only point and anyone who had another, he thought they were just off! Really takes the fun out of the debate!! We've all run across this type before, right? I think an arguemnet is childish when the person uses extreme sarcasm to make a point (and throws in some childish sobs and such) so as to antagonize the others who don't agree with him/her. A childish arguement is when the person has nothing meaningful to say, can't come up with a reasonable comment, so just acts childish so as to be obnoxious. I'm sure you've seen this type of action before in your postings on the forums...haven't you? Sure makes the debate go downhill fast, doesn't it?

 

Again, if you need it explained, you'll never get it.

 

Swamp Thing...you got mad because someone beat you to a spot and placed a cache so you could enjoy it? Truly? You got mad at someone attempting to give back to the caching community? I understand your disappointment in not being able to place the hide...but you couldn't move it and place one to show the other cacher what a cache should look like?

 

NO I DID NOT ENJOY HIS CACHE!!

 

It was LAME!! I did forgive him because it was his first cache ever. To move mine would mean putting it across the 350 feet deep ravine to the other side of the bridge where there were no trails to the bottom of the footing of the arch. His cache said NOT to cross the bridge (cause he was too scared to walk across it.)

 

 

I LOVE SARCASM!!! IF YOU DON'T, then go somewhere else than the forums. Sarcasm abounds here.

 

AND WE LOVE IT!!!!!!!!

[+Confucius' Cat]

WAH WAH WAH!

 

i just got back from an 160 mile round trip drive going after two FTFs.

 

I got sloppy seconds on one and third on the other!

 

WAH WAH WAH! Woe is me!

 

Some totally discourteous *********** didn't log the FTF before I left this morning! And he had found it at EIGHT O'CLOCK! Fully TWO HOURS before I set out on my 160 mile quest!

 

THE FTF STILL HAS NOT LOGGED ON THE FIRST ONE!

 

OH WOE IS ME!

 

</sarcasm>

 

Oh, Did I mention?

Absolutely GREAT day outside. Cool damp air with a light misty rain. The second cache was at a really cool wetland preserve with a fantastic boardwalk and elevated walkway system that made for easy walking for the Wifemate and Narg. We saw three deers and a woodpecker, heard multiple geese, had a nice 2 mile walk and took some pictures. (All of which were not directly involved in the micro cache hunts themselves but they took me to the area)

 

I've had the unfortunate honor of knowing a "friend" who just couldn't argue his point without being childish. Every time we got into a heated debate, he'd act all rude and childish as if his point was the only point and anyone who had another, he thought they were just off! Really takes the fun out of the debate!! We've all run across this type before, right? I think an arguemnet is childish when the person uses extreme sarcasm to make a point (and throws in some childish sobs and such) so as to antagonize the others who don't agree with him/her. A childish arguement is when the person has nothing meaningful to say, can't come up with a reasonable comment, so just acts childish so as to be obnoxious. I'm sure you've seen this type of action before in your postings on the forums...haven't you? Sure makes the debate go downhill fast, doesn't it?

 

Again, if you need it explained, you'll never get it.

 

Swamp Thing...you got mad because someone beat you to a spot and placed a cache so you could enjoy it? Truly? You got mad at someone attempting to give back to the caching community? I understand your disappointment in not being able to place the hide...but you couldn't move it and place one to show the other cacher what a cache should look like?

 

NO I DID NOT ENJOY HIS CACHE!!

 

It was LAME!! I did forgive him because it was his first cache ever. To move mine would mean putting it across the 350 feet deep ravine to the other side of the bridge where there were no trails to the bottom of the footing of the arch. His cache said NOT to cross the bridge (cause he was too scared to walk across it.)

 

 

I LOVE SARCASM!!! IF YOU DON'T, then go somewhere else than the forums. Sarcasm abounds here.

 

AND WE LOVE IT!!!!!!!!

Now Now!

You have to clearly indicate sarcasm with the "html codes" because we are dealing with a diverse group here:

Again, if you need it explained, you'll never get it.