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Twisted Humor in Not Signing FTF in Cache Logs


Decoski

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Okay. I made a long trip to the middle of nowhere, up a mountain, through brush, and over boulders to get what I thought was going to be my first FTF. The website cache log was empty and was so for nearly a year. I figured nobody bothered looking for it due to the remoteness of the location and the relative difficulty of the hike; however, when I found the geocache, I was peeved to see that the cache logbook was signed on the second page with a joker card marking the page. I felt it was the FTF's way of laughing at me for thinking I was the first when he had already found it. The finder was there several months earlier. Has anyone else gone to a cache thinking you were the first (because the website cache log hadn't yet been signed and the cache was placed months earlier) only to find the geocache logbook already signed?

Edited by Decoski
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Has anyone else gone to a cache thinking you were the first (because the website cache log hadn't yet been signed and the cache was placed months earlier) only to find the geocache logbook already signed?

Yes. People who find caches after I am FTF have this happen. :P I do it to keep "the race" for FTF going, until there have been 2 finds -- mine and whoever is 2nd.

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... to get what I thought was going to be my first FTF.
That's actually pretty funny.

I agree. All's fair in love and war ... and the FTF race.

 

We don't have much a FTF race going on around here anymore. Caches can go days, if not weeks, before a FTF. Back when we did have one we didn't think we'd be MEFF until we inspected the logbook.

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Okay. I made a long trip to the middle of nowhere, up a mountain, through brush, and over boulders to get what I thought was going to be my first FTF. The website cache log was empty and was so for nearly a year. I figured nobody bothered looking for it due to the remoteness of the location and the relative difficulty of the hike; however, when I found the geocache, I was peeved to see that the cache logbook was signed on the second page with a joker card marking the page. I felt it was the FTF's way of laughing at me for thinking I was the first when he had already found it. The finder was there several months earlier. Has anyone else gone to a cache thinking you were the first (because the website cache log hadn't yet been signed and the cache was placed months earlier) only to find the geocache logbook already signed?

 

Ive done that a bunch of times and will do it again. I think its kinda funny and it does keep the ftf hunt alive.

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Does it keep the FTF going, or does it irk people to think someone would do this and simply keep them from going out after the hides until someone finds them?

 

Since some find this funny, a simple solution would be to hand out the coords before the publishing of the cache...everyone who I know would get the coords save the one person who would do this. THEN, when the cache is published, they could all wait until the FTF hound does go after it. A dose of the FTFr's own medicine!!

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Does it keep the FTF going, or does it irk people to think someone would do this and simply keep them from going out after the hides until someone finds them?

 

Since some find this funny, a simple solution would be to hand out the coords before the publishing of the cache...everyone who I know would get the coords save the one person who would do this. THEN, when the cache is published, they could all wait until the FTF hound does go after it. A dose of the FTFr's own medicine!!

 

Nah, they'd know they were FTF after publication. I've gotten coords a couple of times in advance at events or to test a cache and not claimed FTF.

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Does it keep the FTF going, or does it irk people to think someone would do this and simply keep them from going out after the hides until someone finds them?

 

Since some find this funny, a simple solution would be to hand out the coords before the publishing of the cache...everyone who I know would get the coords save the one person who would do this. THEN, when the cache is published, they could all wait until the FTF hound does go after it. A dose of the FTFr's own medicine!!

 

Nah, they'd know they were FTF after publication. I've gotten coords a couple of times in advance at events or to test a cache and not claimed FTF.

 

How? Unless someone tells the person, how would they know?

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Well, I guess it could work if the people knew when the date of publication was going to be so they could sign the logbook with the appropriate day. Otherwise, they'd have to guess wouldn't they? Plus, if I get to a cache shortly after it's published and see a bunch of signatures I'd probably guess it was hidden as a group and FTF was still available. But maybe that's just me...

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True, a person could figure it out, but how would they truly know unless told? I would say they would figure it out after a few times, but then, they might also get the hint after a couple times as well!

 

Signing w/o date (I do this often anyway as I never know what day it is) and maybe making some funny logs might keep someone from knowing as well.

 

Truly, I wouldn't even care if they did know. Let them tell people what happened, I'd tell them why! There's more than one way to play that game...

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Okay. I made a long trip to the middle of nowhere, up a mountain, through brush, and over boulders to get what I thought was going to be my first FTF. The website cache log was empty and was so for nearly a year. I figured nobody bothered looking for it due to the remoteness of the location and the relative difficulty of the hike; however, when I found the geocache, I was peeved to see that the cache logbook was signed on the second page with a joker card marking the page. I felt it was the FTF's way of laughing at me for thinking I was the first when he had already found it. The finder was there several months earlier. Has anyone else gone to a cache thinking you were the first (because the website cache log hadn't yet been signed and the cache was placed months earlier) only to find the geocache logbook already signed?

 

It helped to get you (the STF) to go to the cache, didn't it? Would you have gone had you known that it had been found before? And was being FTF the only reason you went "up a mountain, through brush, and over boulders"? Sounds to me like it was a great trip!!

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Does it keep the FTF going, or does it irk people to think someone would do this and simply keep them from going out after the hides until someone finds them?

 

Since some find this funny, a simple solution would be to hand out the coords before the publishing of the cache...everyone who I know would get the coords save the one person who would do this. THEN, when the cache is published, they could all wait until the FTF hound does go after it. A dose of the FTFr's own medicine!!

As someone who employs this tactic, I would WELCOME someone doing this to me, and quite frankly, would just laugh it off and wait for the next new cache. Then, I'd see what else I could come up with to liven things up a bit.

 

I guess that's just the goofiness in me. MAybe I'd try what the prankster thread suggested. :P

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Okay. I made a long trip to the middle of nowhere, up a mountain, through brush, and over boulders to get what I thought was going to be my first FTF. The website cache log was empty and was so for nearly a year. I figured nobody bothered looking for it due to the remoteness of the location and the relative difficulty of the hike; however, when I found the geocache, I was peeved to see that the cache logbook was signed on the second page with a joker card marking the page. I felt it was the FTF's way of laughing at me for thinking I was the first when he had already found it. The finder was there several months earlier. Has anyone else gone to a cache thinking you were the first (because the website cache log hadn't yet been signed and the cache was placed months earlier) only to find the geocache logbook already signed?

 

What difference does it make if someone found the cache a minute, an hour, a day, a week, or a year earlier than you?

 

If the cache is worth visiting, then it's worth visiting no matter how many people may, or may not, have been there before you.

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I have enountered this on two occasions.

 

At this cache - "When nature calls" the log was signed by an active cacher who never subsequently logged it on the website. I privately e-mailed them politely to ask if they were planning to do so but they never gave me the courtesy of a reply. :P In the end I chose not to count it as a personal FTF since it appears that the previous find was intentional. This was a drive up (albeit a long one) so it didn't bug me too much.

 

However, at this cache - "Lättfots lya ", although the log book had been signed it appeared that it was by a chance finder who was not an active geocacher. I felt that they had not been seeking the cache and so felt justified in adding it to my personal count of FTFs. I walked 15km to find this one - it would have really bugged me if it had been someone playing silly games by delaying their log.

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Okay. I made a long trip to the middle of nowhere, up a mountain, through brush, and over boulders to get what I thought was going to be my first FTF. The website cache log was empty and was so for nearly a year. I figured nobody bothered looking for it due to the remoteness of the location and the relative difficulty of the hike; however, when I found the geocache, I was peeved to see that the cache logbook was signed on the second page with a joker card marking the page. I felt it was the FTF's way of laughing at me for thinking I was the first when he had already found it. The finder was there several months earlier. Has anyone else gone to a cache thinking you were the first (because the website cache log hadn't yet been signed and the cache was placed months earlier) only to find the geocache logbook already signed?

 

I've found two caches that have gone "online log free" for months, but when I got there, there were already signatures in the logbook. This didn't detract from my experience whatsoever.

 

From an outsider perspective, it sure looks like you headed for this cache with a sense of entitlement. It seems a bit selfish to "think you were the first" just because you didn't see any logs online. Would you have even bothered hunting for this cache, if you knew you would be second to find? If the answer is no, your priorities are off kilter.

Edited by Kit Fox
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Does it keep the FTF going, or does it irk people to think someone would do this and simply keep them from going out after the hides until someone finds them?

 

Since some find this funny, a simple solution would be to hand out the coords before the publishing of the cache...everyone who I know would get the coords save the one person who would do this. THEN, when the cache is published, they could all wait until the FTF hound does go after it. A dose of the FTFr's own medicine!!

As someone who employs this tactic, I would WELCOME someone doing this to me, and quite frankly, would just laugh it off and wait for the next new cache. Then, I'd see what else I could come up with to liven things up a bit.

 

I guess that's just the goofiness in me. MAybe I'd try what the prankster thread suggested. :P

 

I do hope you stay put there in Alaska...already conversed on what my feelings toward your sense of humor is in an earlier topic.

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Okay. I made a long trip to the middle of nowhere, up a mountain, through brush, and over boulders to get what I thought was going to be my first FTF. The website cache log was empty and was so for nearly a year. I figured nobody bothered looking for it due to the remoteness of the location and the relative difficulty of the hike; however, when I found the geocache, I was peeved to see that the cache logbook was signed on the second page with a joker card marking the page. I felt it was the FTF's way of laughing at me for thinking I was the first when he had already found it. The finder was there several months earlier. Has anyone else gone to a cache thinking you were the first (because the website cache log hadn't yet been signed and the cache was placed months earlier) only to find the geocache logbook already signed?

Yeah, I've had it happen: Northern Niagara. There was only one online log - a DNF - when I found it, but there were three logs in the book, all a year old. But, so what? It was still a great little hike to a wonderful waterfall with a cache too!

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I don't think I'd be upset if I encountered a situation like the one described in the OP. Perhaps a bit surprised, maybe a somewhat disappointed. Probably I'd just laugh. I certainly wouldn't be mad.

 

But if I did find myself thinking that someone had deliberately not logged online just to get my goat, I sure wouldn't have given them any satisfaction by showing my true feelings in my online log. By not mentioning anything about the previous finder in my online log, I'd know that I was actually somehow getting the last laugh. :)

Edited by cache_test_dummies
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Not a tactic that will make you a lot of friends at the local geo-picnic.

 

To me that is a FTF race killer. Who wants to even try for FTF knowing some folks are out doing that. Something I would never do myself.

 

Conversely, I know folks that will not try for a cache until after it is logged as found - they don't want to be a beta tester of the coords. This tactic would delay them from even trying.

 

All part of why I just go find caches at my own pace these days and don't worry about wether I am first, second, third or whatever.

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I am guilty of intentionally waiting several hours to log an FTF, and it was my brother-in-law who was 2TF at 1AM. He was pissed.

 

He got me back a few weeks later, and I was pretty pissed, but had to laugh.

 

Neither of us have done this since, and both log our FTFs as quickly as reasonably possible.

 

I've had it happen to me a few other times (not always intentionally) and although it urks me, it's a risk I take racing for an FTF.

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Does it keep the FTF going, or does it irk people to think someone would do this and simply keep them from going out after the hides until someone finds them?

 

 

Personally I've all but given up on trying to get FTF on caches. There was a cache posted this morning and I thought I might have a shot at FTF it would have meant driving 15 minutes out of my way on the way to work. There have been a half dozen caches posted in the past month or so within a mile of my house and I've got 2nd or 3rd to find on all of them. There are several cachers in our area that seem to go for FTF on every cache published. I just don't have the luxury of being able to come in late to work, leave at a moments notice if a cache is published while I am at work, in order to go search for a cache. When I have had the opportunity to make some attempts, I always seem to come up with 2nd or 3rd to anyway.

 

The kicker was a few days ago. I was at my desk, had recently checked my email, and then saw a new cache published. It looked real close. When I checked the coords on a map it looked to be very close to where I park my car every day (and where my GPSr was located). Since I could just easily work from home and didn't have any meetings scheduled I left a half hour early and walked about .2 of a mile to my car. When I got close I knew just where the cache (a nano) probably was located. I grabbed the cache without even breaking stride and headed to my car to sign the log. I was second to find. I signed the log then replaced the cache. Just for kicks I put the coordinates into my GPSr and discovered that it was located 100 feet from where my GPS and car was located at the time the cache was published (and likely placed). The FTF went to someone that worked even closer to I to the cache. It took 18 minutes from the time it was published to the time it was logged online.

 

I had recently changed my profile such that all notifications go to an account that I use for reading mail on my Blackberry, but now I'm thinking of just turning off notifications entirely for newly published caches.

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Yeah, I've had it happen: Northern Niagara. There was only one online log - a DNF - when I found it, but there were three logs in the book, all a year old. But, so what? It was still a great little hike to a wonderful waterfall with a cache too!

It's possible the cache was "recycled" from another site, or maybe just listed somewhere else first before being listed here. That happened recently around here. Several new caches popped up requiring long hikes. When the FTF hound got there, he/she found a log book with entries up to several years old. But, they were the first to find after it was listed here, so they got to claim FTF honors.

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All part of the game IMO.

 

I have had it happen to me. It made the adventure all the more memorable. You just don't get to be FTF every time you try. No big deal.

 

I would submit that if it bothers you to find somebody else's name in the log regardless of whether the name is logged online or not, you probably should not play the FTF game.

 

A local cache owner took me to task for not logging FTFs online and I considered he did have a good point so i started logging them again even though I don't see it as a big deal- just to be neighborly.

 

You could very well go out seeking a FTF that had already happened even if the FTF was logged online from the cache site immediately following the find.

 

i don't see any real difference if you had gone out thinking you would be first ten minutes or a year after the cache had already been found. It is 'luck of the draw."

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I guess I'm in the minority on this one as I see it as pretty tacky. To some extent, I say that people can cache how they want, until it affects others.

 

How about taking it a step further and moving the cache 100 feet afer you find it just so others have a hard time? Then you could sit back and laugh at them for logging DNF's? It's not that far of a leap...

 

In the end, this is how I feel:

 

What difference does it make if someone found the cache a minute, an hour, a day, a week, or a year earlier than you?

 

If the cache is worth visiting, then it's worth visiting no matter how many people may, or may not, have been there before you.

 

But overall, it's just not funny IMO.

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How about taking it a step further and moving the cache 100 feet afer you find it just so others have a hard time? Then you could sit back and laugh at them for logging DNF's? It's not that far of a leap...

Perhaps not in the "quantum" sense, but it is pretty much of a stretch to go from something that can and does happen innocently and when it does, innocently or not, has no practical effect on the next seeker's ability to find the cache or the level of fun in the hunt although it perhaps might bruise their fragile ego, to a blatant and deliberate disregard for the rules and spirit of the game.

 

So why not just nuke the world... it's not that far of a leap?

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I disagree that it happens "innocently" - it's deliberate.

 

And it does directly affect the "level of fun" in the hunt, thus the OP bringing it up here.

Innocently:

 

Big time FTF cacher finds cache on 10/21 at 17:30, logs online when he gets back home from vacation at 10/27 at 13:35

 

Our intrepid junior FTF hound (hereinafter referred to as "JFTF") sets out at high noon on 10/27 just an hour and 35 minutes before the online log of the find that occurred nearly a week ago.

 

JFTF gets annoyed because there is another log (FTF) on the book that has been there a week.

 

As you quoted earlier:

QUOTE(poohstickz @ Oct 23 2007, 07:31 AM) *

 

What difference does it make if someone found the cache a minute, an hour, a day, a week, or a year earlier than you?

 

If the cache is worth visiting, then it's worth visiting no matter how many people may, or may not, have been there before you.

 

Fact:

JFTF had the exact same caching experience as everyone else will have with that cache except he didn't get the FTF.

 

If JFTF hound did not have "fun" he needs to redefine "fun" IMO.

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What difference does it make if someone found the cache a minute, an hour, a day, a week, or a year earlier than you?

 

If the cache is worth visiting, then it's worth visiting no matter how many people may, or may not, have been there before you.

 

Well said! YOU are my hero!

 

Your ideas intrigue me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

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Yeah, I've had it happen: Northern Niagara. There was only one online log - a DNF - when I found it, but there were three logs in the book, all a year old. But, so what? It was still a great little hike to a wonderful waterfall with a cache too!

It's possible the cache was "recycled" from another site, or maybe just listed somewhere else first before being listed here. That happened recently around here. Several new caches popped up requiring long hikes. When the FTF hound got there, he/she found a log book with entries up to several years old. But, they were the first to find after it was listed here, so they got to claim FTF honors.

I just think it was people who don't log online. All three log were within a month of placing/listing. And it is kind of out of the way...

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I log FTF right away lately, only because I'd like to reduce the carbon footprint of Geo Caching in general. There are a coupla FTF hounds (I'm one of them) around here and it's part of the fun of an LPC or some such otherwise unremarkable cache.

 

Kinda reveals something petty about your personality of you deliberately don't log just to "fool" the next guy out.....

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I log FTF right away lately, only because I'd like to reduce the carbon footprint of Geo Caching in general. There are a coupla FTF hounds (I'm one of them) around here and it's part pretty much all of the fun of an LPC or some such otherwise unremarkable cache.

 

Kinda reveals something petty about your personality of you deliberately don't log just to "fool" the next guy out.....

fixed :)

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I log FTF right away lately, only because I'd like to reduce the carbon footprint of Geo Caching in general. There are a coupla FTF hounds (I'm one of them) around here and it's part pretty much all of the fun of an LPC or some such otherwise unremarkable cache.

 

Kinda reveals something petty about your personality of you deliberately don't log just to "fool" the next guy out.....

fixed <_<

 

Indeed! :)

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Sounds dumb to me, it's not playing the game properly to delay logging like that. Although... I'd be tempted to not log it either... waiting for my turn in the queue (until the FTF is logged). Share the joy :)

Yeah, I think everyone should wait to log online until the FTF logs.

 

<_<

 

Then folks will be showing up hoping to be MEFF and the logbook is half full. :antenna:

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Many people do not log on-line. But, for a regular cacher not to log, waiting for a second find before logging FTF, is just nasty! Did you consider removing that page, to send to the cache owner, for his perusal? :)

 

I emailed him and told him the story and the FTF's log entry.

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Okay. I made a long trip to the middle of nowhere, up a mountain, through brush, and over boulders to get what I thought was going to be my first FTF. The website cache log was empty and was so for nearly a year. I figured nobody bothered looking for it due to the remoteness of the location and the relative difficulty of the hike; however, when I found the geocache, I was peeved to see that the cache logbook was signed on the second page with a joker card marking the page. I felt it was the FTF's way of laughing at me for thinking I was the first when he had already found it. The finder was there several months earlier. Has anyone else gone to a cache thinking you were the first (because the website cache log hadn't yet been signed and the cache was placed months earlier) only to find the geocache logbook already signed?

 

I've found two caches that have gone "online log free" for months, but when I got there, there were already signatures in the logbook. This didn't detract from my experience whatsoever.

 

From an outsider perspective, it sure looks like you headed for this cache with a sense of entitlement. It seems a bit selfish to "think you were the first" just because you didn't see any logs online. Would you have even bothered hunting for this cache, if you knew you would be second to find? If the answer is no, your priorities are off kilter.

 

I went to this one because it looked like a fun adventure, but thought this would be my first FTF as an added bonus. I just want to get one FTF. After that, I don't care what place I come in.

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Did they mark the card as FTF. Since they put the card on the second page, perhaps they were present when the hider placed the cache and were waiting for a true FTF to place their logs.

No. I emailed the owner and he was wondering himself why the FTF didn't bother logging into the cache logs.

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Okay. I made a long trip to the middle of nowhere, up a mountain, through brush, and over boulders to get what I thought was going to be my first FTF. The website cache log was empty and was so for nearly a year. I figured nobody bothered looking for it due to the remoteness of the location and the relative difficulty of the hike; however, when I found the geocache, I was peeved to see that the cache logbook was signed on the second page with a joker card marking the page. I felt it was the FTF's way of laughing at me for thinking I was the first when he had already found it. The finder was there several months earlier. Has anyone else gone to a cache thinking you were the first (because the website cache log hadn't yet been signed and the cache was placed months earlier) only to find the geocache logbook already signed?

 

It helped to get you (the STF) to go to the cache, didn't it? Would you have gone had you known that it had been found before? And was being FTF the only reason you went "up a mountain, through brush, and over boulders"? Sounds to me like it was a great trip!!

It was a great trip and adventure and I would have done it anyways, but I thought this was going to be my first FTF based upon the fact that the cache had existed for over a year with no entries on the cache log.

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I don't cache to "beat" anyone. I cache simply to play the game of hide and seek. If your cache is cleverly hidden, is humorous, historic or educational and gives me a different perspective of overly familiar surroundings

 

--then we have both won--

 

well done and thank you for the adventure.

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Sounds dumb to me, it's not playing the game properly to delay logging like that. Although... I'd be tempted to not log it either... waiting for my turn in the queue (until the FTF is logged). Share the joy :o

Yeah, I think everyone should wait to log online until the FTF logs.

 

:o

 

Then folks will be showing up hoping to be MEFF and the logbook is half full. :huh:

Hey, the same sorta thing happened to me yesterday but I jumped the queue and logged FTF anyway - SEE LOG HERE! :huh:

 

To the OP, don't let experiences like this get to you. Geocaching is an activity with guidelines instead of rules that people choose to interpret and play very differently (how many times has that been said?). Just take pride in your own accomplishments, give a little bit back to the sport, and you won't go wrong. :lol:

Edited by JamGuys
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In my book, it ranks right up there with stealing stop signs, kicking cats, and tripping little old ladies with strollers.

It's a sign of mental illness: deliberately inflicting pain on others.

Very sad.

Those are definitely examples of inflciting pain. Beating someone to a FTF and letting them discover that fact on their own, while annoying and perhaps childish, isn't really the same as any of your examples in my books. While I mightn't choose to cache with individuals who find it amusing, I wouldn't label them as having a mental illness either.

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Everything is a mental illness these days...

Just another way to avoid taking responsibility for one's stupid choices and the consequences thereof.

 

Stupid choices are a part of human nature; we all make them occasionally. Blaming someone else? That's a sign of the times.

 

But I suppose it is NATURAL to blame the FTF if you find the cache second... certainly LOGICAL. :huh:

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The cachers in my area call this "sandbagging". It only hurts the first to find racers out there. I recently expected to be second or third on two caches, and without rushing to hit them I was first to find on both. These were my first 2 FTFs. I logged them and there appears to be no interest in our FTF racers now. I guess all the hype about FTFs is seeing the cache just how the hider wanted it to be seen.

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