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If you go look at the datasheet for PID DF7576, you'll see about midway between GEOID Height and Accuracy Estimates a line that reads:

DF7576.Photographs are available for this station.

The word "Photographs" is a hyperlink, and will take you to a page that shows the photos!

 

Very cool. :laughing:

 

Will have to work this into my NGS-GPX program.. somehow. B)

 

Me.

Edited by foxtrot_xray
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Has anyone here who has submitted photos had theirs linked to the datasheets? As far as I know, NGS doesn't have an easy procedure in place to add photos to the database, so I'm not sure why some datasheets have them and others don't. Deb is collecting them from us, but I don't know how many have made it into the database yet.

 

Patty

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I'm not sure why some datasheets have them and others don't.

 

Its been required for submitting projects for many years. So the ones you find were likely from survey projects done by NGS or cooperating agencies/consultants etc. I can recall us taking photo's of all the stations that were used in a DOT GPS project as far back as 1992.

 

They link them as time permits.

Edited by Z15
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This NGS document (PDF) describes the agency's photo standards. I have never submitted any photos to NGS, so I don't know how scrupulous they are about, for example, having a sign in the picture identifying the mark as opposed to a label added later in photo editing software. In any event, there is currently no way to upload photos. They should be saved on a disk and mailed to NGS. Obviously this is a more cumbersome procedure than adding photos to the standard NGS online recovery form, which may explain why finding a datasheet with linked photos is so rare.

 

-ArtMan-

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Evidently the NGS isn't all that scrupulous about the rules, since the example above has "post processed" labels added.

 

My suspicion is that the NGS is a bit cautious about adding internet uploaded pics for a couple reasons:

1) security

2) storage

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Only about ½% of all the NGS PIDs have pictures.

 

In case anyone wants to see a bunch of NGS photos in datasheets, I have made a temporary webpage of all the links. On each line, the first link is to the PID's datasheet and the second link is directly to its pictures.

 

Some PIDs have only the picture of the disk, but others are more interesting, with pictures of people and equipment using the mark. There are also various kinds of labeling in the photos.

 

Here is an interesting picture of a rod mark in use.

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This NGS document (PDF) describes the agency's photo standards.

Yes, but remember, we don't have to meet those standards for our photo submissions. See this thread to read what Deb Brown told us about photos a few years ago. Our guidelines are much simpler. Here's the relevant text:

 

(9) At present, we are working on adding the options of photo submissions and hand held gps positions to the online recovery form. It's not available yet. Until it is you can send me photos via email of stations if they meet the following criteria:

a) The file size must be a meg or less. The name of the file MUST be PID_YYYYMMDD_A <or> C.JPG (IN ALL

CAPS)

c) I need 2 photos of each marker, one area (A) with a background

reference object and one close-up © showing the stamping.

d) Photos cannot contain images of anything inappropriate or people/pets.

 

NOTE: The criteria for submitting photos found on our website is intended for those submitting blue-booked projects. It's more stringent than that for recovery submissions. Use the criteria I mentioned above for your recovery work.

[Anyone know how to turn off the bulletin board "feature" that turns a "C" in parentheses into a copyright symbol? I couldn't find it, so please interpret the above as a "C" in parens.]

 

Patty

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In case anyone wants to see a bunch of NGS photos in datasheets, I have made a temporary webpage of all the links.

Thanks, BDT.

 

I just picked a few of the DC marks at random and looked at the photos. I'm surprised how bad many of them are. One disk is so blurred that the stamping is not at all legible. Another shows a tripod mounted over the station, but doesn't show the station itself. If these sorts of photos (taken, I think, by NGS itself) are acceptable, maybe the bar is a lot lower than I thought and I should consider submitting photos to go with my previous NGS reports.

 

On the other hand, the idea of going back over five years of photos of something like 1,000 recoveries is more than a little daunting.

 

-ArtMan-

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A lot of the early photos submitted for inclusion in the NGS database were poor, inconsistent and/or of varying content, so I was asked to draft up some photo standards in early 2001. The first version came out in May 2001 and the latest version of these photo standards is at: http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/ContractingOpportunities/SOWV7.pdf (pages 165 - 174). This is Version 13B, dated Feb. 20, 2007, and is for contractors submitting projects to NGS, but gives good suggestions for anyone taking photos of survey marks.

 

I just talked to Deb Brown and she now has software that makes it faster for her to upload photos to the NGS database, but she still looks at them to check for quality and appropriate content.

 

If you take photos that are better quality than the existing photos in the database, please submit them to Deb at : Deb.Brown@noaa.gov . The photo's file name must begin with the PID, with the alpha characters of the PID in upper case letters. The last 4 characters of the file name have to be .jpg

GEL

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NGS Surveyor -

 

This sounds very good. However, like ArtMan, I have never submitted photos to the NGS and many others have not either, I suspect. I think the main thing that dampens our interest in submitting photos to the NGS is that there's no evidence or assurance that our photos will be used.

 

It would surely be a firestorm of interest among us in submitting pictures to the NGS IF we saw a datasheet with a GEOCAC report with a Pictures link in the datasheet and one of our submitters' pictures there. :)

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NGS Surveyor -

 

This sounds very good. However, like ArtMan, I have never submitted photos to the NGS and many others have not either, I suspect. I think the main thing that dampens our interest in submitting photos to the NGS is that there's no evidence or assurance that our photos will be used.

 

It would surely be a firestorm of interest among us in submitting pictures to the NGS IF we saw a datasheet with a GEOCAC report with a Pictures link in the datasheet and one of our submitters' pictures there. :)

Yes, a couple years ago I emailed photos after submitting the report on a handful of marks, in the required format, but never saw them 'attached' so quit submitting them to NGS.

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Yes, a couple years ago I emailed photos after submitting the report on a handful of marks, in the required format, but never saw them 'attached' so quit submitting them to NGS.

I expressed the same frustration a month ago in this forum. Every photo I have downloaded to this site is in a format required by NGS for submission of recovered monuments (except one or two for which NGS already has photographs). I sent two CDs by mail as Deb Brown had instructed. Now I have a third batch of over 100 photos waiting to be put on CD, and still more that haven't been resized or labeled for proper submission. If I see no interest on the part of NGS to use them, why bother? At least surveyors and others who need to know can find photographs and updated recovery information on this website that is superior to the NGS website.

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I can't speak for the NGS (that would be Dave or Deb) but from my viewpoint, as a professional who uses the NGS site, the data for the mark is the priority, the photos are an accessory. While photos would be nice to have for every recent recovery, I don't particularly need them to find a mark I need to use. The info on the datasheet will get me there (most times). I think this is how the NGS prioritizes the data vs. the photos.

 

There are only a handful of people who are charged with the task of maintaining the NGS benchmark database. Adding another component to the data, which may or may not be able to be automated, could only add to an already herculean task. That's not to say that this is impossible. It IS possible, or the NGS wouldn't already be accepting photos. I just see it that the photos are not as important as the data, and the continuing maintenence of the database.

 

...At least surveyors and others who need to know can find photographs and updated recovery information on this website that is superior to the NGS website.

While there are many surveyors who know of this website, and its usefulness, most know it only as part of some game, and others don't know about it at all. There are many serious benchmarkers who have contributed to the NGS database and there are surveyors (and agencies such as the NGS) who DO appreciate their efforts, whether or not they know what the GEOCAC submission tag means. I would, however hesitate to say that this website is superior to the NGS site as they are completely different in purpose - apples & oranges. It goes without saying that the GC.com site is more user friendly, but it is, by design, a recreational site for recreational users. The NGS site simply a database of the NGS data, professional in purpose, with benchmark data being a part of it. Without that data, a benchmark is just a lump of brass stuck on a rock, no matter how many pictures a geocacher takes of it.

 

Don't get me wrong: the pictures are helpful and I would encourage those who submit recoveries to the NGS to send the pictures if they've got them. I'm sure the NGS will what they can with them, when they can.

 

- Kewaneh

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Hmm... My photos are proof that I found the benchmark. And, I submit them to Deb, as such: Proof that I found the benchmark. Hmm... Thought that was required. I think I've sent her photos of every recovery I've logged! Must be a few thousand photos! What she does with them, I have no idea. But I'll keep sending them to her.

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[Anyone know how to turn off the bulletin board "feature" that turns a "C" in parentheses into a copyright symbol? I couldn't find it, so please interpret the above as a "C" in parens.]

Add a space.

(C )

Ah, okay. It offends my editing sensibilities, but if it works, I'll use it. :-)

 

Hmm... My photos are proof that I found the benchmark. And, I submit them to Deb, as such: Proof that I found the benchmark. Hmm... Thought that was required.

No, there's no requirement to prove that you found a mark by submitting photos.

 

Patty

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