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Known Geo-Muggles, what to do...


JeepinOregon
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Okay - long story short: in the California Central Valley, there has been more than a dozen cache "thefts" within the last week alone, along with multiple coin disappearances (mostly a single person's hides). The largest victim, if you will, is well known in the area, and a very, very intelligent person. Now, the Geo-Muggler wasn't smart enough to prevent not leaving clues behind and the victim figured out who it was. Being as well known as she is, she even already knew where this person lives because she's been invited there before. So, she went to his house to confront him. Within eye-sight of the sitting area of where she was invited into, were the numerous caches (AND stolen coins, mind you!)!!! She was at the person's house--yes, once again, a fellow cacher--and physically saw the stolen items: caches and coins.

 

She has already spoken with one of the local reviewers and she was told to get over it....? This Geo-Muggler, does not appear to be a Premium Member, does this make a difference to TPTB?

Edited by JeepinCalifornia
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Since geocaches are, technically, litter, I don't see any leagal recourse.

 

Groundspeak could ban the offender's account, but then he'd just sign up with a new account.

 

Is it someone who cares about his stats? If so, a campaign of getting cache owners to delete his logs might have some effect.

 

There are other recourses, but they are illegal!

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Okay - long story short: in the California Central Valley, there has been more than a dozen cache "thefts" within the last week alone, along with multiple coin disappearances (mostly a single person's hides). The largest victim, if you will, is well known in the area, and a very, very intelligent person. Now, the Geo-Muggler wasn't smart enough to prevent not leaving clues behind and the victim figured out who it was. Being as well known as she is, she even already knew where this person lives because she's been invited there before. So, she went to his house to confront him. Within eye-sight of the sitting area of where she was invited into, were the numerous caches (AND stolen coins, mind you!)!!! She was at the person's house--yes, once again, a fellow cacher--and physically saw the stolen items: caches and coins.

 

She has already spoken with one of the local reviewers and she was told to get over it....? This Geo-Muggler, does not appear to be a Premium Member, does this make a difference to TPTB?

 

I can tell you from personal experience that YOU are next. It doesn't matter that most of your hides are members only.

 

The only good news is that folks like this tire of their game when NO ONE pays attention to them.

 

Delete any mention of them from the caches they hit and quietly replace the caches they hit later on.

 

Have this thread locked and don't discuss this person in ANY open forum. Word of mouth is the best way to spread the word if you still feel the need to actively pursue the matter. Plausible deniability is a GOOD thang. <_<

 

The best possible way to fight a cache monster is to kill them with kindness. That's what worked best for our group. We KNEW who our cache monsters were from activity behind the scenes on our local forums. We NEVER outed them. Instead, we gave them the positive attention that they craved and the vendetta ended until that person went off ther meds again and then we just ignored them.

 

People like this crave attention. If they don't get positive attention then they will take whatever attention they can get. Sorry to say they won this round. :(

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She's up to 16 caches stolen...there must be something that can be done about this Geo-muggler.

 

You could kill them with kindness which I recommend, orrrrr

 

mod note: removed inappropriate image.

 

BASE jumpers use the old tar and feather technique.

 

I had one of mine stolen and later returned to "teach me a lesson" about rocking the boat. If I wanted to I could prove who did it and call them out but it's not worth it.

Edited by Quiggle
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Okay - long story short: in the California Central Valley, there has been more than a dozen cache "thefts" within the last week alone, along with multiple coin disappearances (mostly a single person's hides). The largest victim, if you will, is well known in the area, and a very, very intelligent person. Now, the Geo-Muggler wasn't smart enough to prevent not leaving clues behind and the victim figured out who it was. Being as well known as she is, she even already knew where this person lives because she's been invited there before. So, she went to his house to confront him. Within eye-sight of the sitting area of where she was invited into, were the numerous caches (AND stolen coins, mind you!)!!! She was at the person's house--yes, once again, a fellow cacher--and physically saw the stolen items: caches and coins.

 

She has already spoken with one of the local reviewers and she was told to get over it....? This Geo-Muggler, does not appear to be a Premium Member, does this make a difference to TPTB?

 

I can tell you from personal experience that YOU are next. It doesn't matter that most of your hides are members only.

 

The only good news is that folks like this tire of their game when NO ONE pays attention to them.

 

Delete any mention of them from the caches they hit and quietly replace the caches they hit later on.

 

Have this thread locked and don't discuss this person in ANY open forum. Word of mouth is the best way to spread the word if you still feel the need to actively pursue the matter. Plausible deniability is a GOOD thang. <_<

 

The best possible way to fight a cache monster is to kill them with kindness. That's what worked best for our group. We KNEW who our cache monsters were from activity behind the scenes on our local forums. We NEVER outed them. Instead, we gave them the positive attention that they craved and the vendetta ended until that person went off ther meds again and then we just ignored them.

 

People like this crave attention. If they don't get positive attention then they will take whatever attention they can get. Sorry to say they won this round. :)

 

Having gone through this ourselves, this is the best advice that anyone can offer you. There's no other reasonable course of action, no legal recourse, and GC.com will be of zero help to you.

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As has been said, there is no legal recourse, and Groundspeak could only ban the account, possibly the IP but even that is ineffective, and that's even if the evidence were convincing enough for them to take action (I can's speak for them, I can only guess that they wouldn't do that without a compelling reason)

 

If I had to think of SOMETHING to do, I'd try to have a talk with them, find out just what the heck their problem was, and see if there was any way to set things right. That's all you can do.

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I agree with everyone else -- the less attention you give them the better. However I also believe in truth and honesty. So I think if I was invited to a house and I saw a bunch of caches sitting around, I would have said. "Oh cool, caches." and went over to check them out. Then I would have had to say, "Hmm, this is my cache 'such-and-such'. It was stolen, why is it in your house? Since it's mine I'm sure you won't mind if I take it with me."

 

Same thing for the coins (if of course you knew the numbers so you knew they were yours). And if the caches were someone else's I would have had to say, "wow this is so-n-so's cache. It was stolen....etc"

 

The person must have wanted you to see the caches and the coins, otherwise why were they left out in plain sight when you were invited over?

 

Windrose

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mod note: removed inappropriate image.

Let's try to keep it family friendly, mm kay?

 

From the guidelines:

Foul Language and obscene images will not be tolerated. This site is family friendly, and all posts and posters must respect the integrity of the site.

 

My bad. I didn't think a stick figure drawing could BE all that disturbing, but I understand. :lol:

 

I guess I should study up on what exactly IS "family friendly" since my entry into the genepool (be afraid. be very afraid.) will be hatching in about 6 weeks. :huh::huh:

 

We now return you to the original futile discussion. :o:o

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Okay - long story short: in the California Central Valley, there has been more than a dozen cache "thefts" within the last week alone, along with multiple coin disappearances (mostly a single person's hides). The largest victim, if you will, is well known in the area, and a very, very intelligent person. Now, the Geo-Muggler wasn't smart enough to prevent not leaving clues behind and the victim figured out who it was. Being as well known as she is, she even already knew where this person lives because she's been invited there before. So, she went to his house to confront him. Within eye-sight of the sitting area of where she was invited into, were the numerous caches (AND stolen coins, mind you!)!!! She was at the person's house--yes, once again, a fellow cacher--and physically saw the stolen items: caches and coins.

 

She has already spoken with one of the local reviewers and she was told to get over it....? This Geo-Muggler, does not appear to be a Premium Member, does this make a difference to TPTB?

 

I can tell you from personal experience that YOU are next. It doesn't matter that most of your hides are members only.

 

The only good news is that folks like this tire of their game when NO ONE pays attention to them.

 

Delete any mention of them from the caches they hit and quietly replace the caches they hit later on.

 

Have this thread locked and don't discuss this person in ANY open forum. Word of mouth is the best way to spread the word if you still feel the need to actively pursue the matter. Plausible deniability is a GOOD thang. :lol:

 

The best possible way to fight a cache monster is to kill them with kindness. That's what worked best for our group. We KNEW who our cache monsters were from activity behind the scenes on our local forums. We NEVER outed them. Instead, we gave them the positive attention that they craved and the vendetta ended until that person went off ther meds again and then we just ignored them.

 

People like this crave attention. If they don't get positive attention then they will take whatever attention they can get. Sorry to say they won this round. :huh:

 

Having gone through this ourselves, this is the best advice that anyone can offer you. There's no other reasonable course of action, no legal recourse, and GC.com will be of zero help to you.

 

I'd like to add one little thing.... While there is almost no legal recourse on the cache owner's part. There IS on the suspected "geo-muggler's" part by way of a slander lawsuit. Just food for thought and the MAIN reason plausible deniability is such a good thang here.

 

If YOU don't have pictures, proof, witnesses, and serial numbers, his case is nearly if not already made.

 

Just food for thought. :huh:

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I still feel that being truthful and upfront is the best policy. I would have said something while I was in their house and saw the caches. But it's not too late. Ask them.

 

"When I was in your house the other day I saw several cache containers sitting around. They were caches that have been stolen. I also saw several coins that have been stolen out of caches. I didn't say anything at the time, because I wasn't sure how to handle it, but I've decided to just come right out and ask you -- What's going on? Why are they at your house? "

 

You could also inform them -- "You know everyone believes you're going around stealing other people's caches and coins." and see what they say.

 

Windrose

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I did a little research. The victim was quite easy to find.

 

A quote from the victims profile:

 

"Sadly, 9 of my Visalia caches were stolen (10/18/07), including my entire Cache-A-Bead series of four, so I am changing ALL of my caches over to Premium viewing only. Don't want to be a snob but, I have to protect my babies, if I can...

 

Update: additionally, 5 of my Hanford caches were also stolen. Discovered this on 10/21/07. Have a suspect though..."

 

Pretty simple solution...

 

Go get it back. You know where it is.

 

I virtually agree with the previous posts...thou it could be handled a little different. As "Windrose" suggests; get it out in th open. Perhaps she is a little intimidated to confront this thief alone in his own home. This is understandable, so go with her! Invite a few other cachers over, make it a party.

 

Simply demand her property to be returned. If he refuses just explain that the local law enforcement will be called due to the coins. Obviously you have the tracking numbers, that will help explain ownership.

 

The longer this goes the likelihood that the said property be returned decreases. The possibility that the thief is reading my post is also evident. If that is indeed the case her items are gone...

 

Regardless, I DO suggest confronting this THIEF! Let him know where he stands in the Geo community. Rattle his cage, shake things up a bit. I tend to believe that this isn't the attention he wanted.

 

This is my personal opinion... (we all know what that's worth...) Sitting with idle hands in the hope that he won't continue... is plain asinine. The theory that "Oh just leave the little sicko alone and he will quit" "kill them with kindness" may work for some. What it really boils down to is: ignore the thief and he might decide to stop. That's great...but he still got away with STEALING YOUR STUFF! I don't see that as a winning result. What message does this give to the thief's out there? " Oh we wont do anything (GS can't do anything) so we will just ignore and let you get away with it"...Confrontation is bad, and not PC. Common people. I realize that this is the nature of the game and it unfortunately will continue...but you actually have someone. Now is time to do something.

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You know "Snoogans" you got me thinking about the "Plausible Deniability" and I can read between the lines on that note... This may be the best route. Along with "killing with kindness".... Yes I see the light!

 

Hopefully I'm allowed a change of heart, my mistake...Boy do I feel terrible!

 

This isn't a case of theft! It is MEMORY-LOSS and MISPLACEMENT problem... You see this poor individual must have forgotten to return the caches. Here is a likely scenario: Grabbed a cache, took it to the car to sign the log, and forgot to replace it. Simple lapse in memory...and due to this condition he cannot remember location or this container goes to this cache. Obviously embarrassed of his condition, he can't bring himself to admit the wrong doing. This is terrible...poor guy. So what I think; as a duty to fellow cachers, all of his placed caches should be picked up and returned to him. Yes returned! Some would like to think that you should go out and take his caches. NO, we are dealing with mentally challenged. Revenge is not applicable... This would be hurting more than helping. In the consideration of most, Geocachers are fine upstanding pillars of the community and obligated to help!

 

There is no doubt that he has now totally forgotten about his own caches, and before they fall into neglect due to his mental state. We must as a team... help. Furthermore I suggest as to not upset the thief.. whoops I meant, forgetful burdon on society individual I think it would be necessary to return said caches via a 60+mph drive-by thrown from a vehicle window. The reason for this is stealth and I think would be a requirement. (You don't want him thinking that there are crazy people throwing stuff at his residence for no particular reason do you?) You see if he finds his caches somewhere in his front yard, he will indeed think this is the last place he put them. No harm no foul. There is only so much you really can do, if they are destroyed on impact...what are you going to do? Just try your best...

 

In addition, if a sudden relapse in memory does occur with the subject. He will understand that this game requires mental health, and considering his sickness... He will realize that his portrayal in the game was not accepted. Thus must quit...

 

I would call this "friendly therapy". If there is a relapse, there are additional levels of therapy that can be perused. Such as, but not limited to... Is his employment... aware of his problem? I'm not sure but if I was his neighbor I would like to know of his condition. Does he have family in the surrounding area? Perhaps they are good ol' big strong Dairy Farmers and need to know, and have a talk with him? ( For those of you reading this, these talks usually happen behind a barn somewhere, and as magical as it sounds...he very well may be cured after 1 discussion. It is amazing how this works. Oh and there is just nothing but barns in Visalia and Tulare)

 

I would tell EVERYONE you know what is going on, as we are a good community and willing to help! Heck, this might even turn into an event! Help this poor guy out!

 

This sounds like a productive means to an end... jeeze I just can't write today...I ment HELP!

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*snip* ... Simply demand her property to be returned. If he refuses just explain that the local law enforcement will be called due to the coins. Obviously you have the tracking numbers, that will help explain ownership.

*snip*

 

You're kidding right? Every single coin and travelbug ever released has a serial number. That doesn't prove ownership. That only shows who first abandoned this property in the wilderness somewhere. Possession is 9/10ths of the law.

 

The fact that the "victim" in this case went to the alleged perpetrator's house, saw the "stolen" goods, and failed to confront when she had the opportunity shows that they must not really give a crap anyhow.

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